Here are the Opticor Vandal Stats

[17inchguns]

hace 5 minutos, Leyers_of_facade dijo:

Well for starters, level 160 bombards can die in 1 shot, heavy gunners in 2, so most enemies aren't gonna survive my first shot anyway on vandal, plus its a gas build, so not only the one taking the hit is gonna die, probably a few of the others nearby too. In addition, level 160 is way higher than anything you will meet in sortie 3 and roughly just a bit over an hour on kuva survival. Although if I plan to do a >1 hour kuva survival, I would probably take someone like gara anyway, sooo not quite what I need anyway.

Besides, how often do you find yourself requiring a full shot to kill on normal opticor anyway? 

The only time you will kill a 160 bombard is by the use of hunters and thats very rng based. Pre dispo nerf opticor with a literal god roll struggled against lvl120-130 enemies and sometimes failed to 1 shot them (see ksilisab video). All this with a higher dispo and higher damage of non vandal. 

Since you claim its a gas build now I straight out dont believe this claim

hace 3 minutos, Descent-of-Damocles dijo:

wait send proof! I wanna know how I can get the same result

You probably wont. Look at current youtubers opticor vabdal rivened videos. You dont see them 1 shotting 160s, atleast not with a gas build lol

[MakiBadFox]

Just simply to chip in, i have to agree. I have a so many medium rate of fire, high damage dps guns. There are so damn many while the more bizarre weaponry seems to be just endlessly falling behind or simply no longer appearing anymore. "Gimmick" guns as a whole seem progressively less interesting with most updates, i'm not saying they should be god tier weapons but they're just becoming an insanely rare breed. 

So to see a gun i was genuinely really looking forward to using just turned into another one of those guns that i have 100 of was just so extremely disappointing. I'd rather stick with the Opticor simply because it feels cool to use. I doubt we'd be seeing an Opticor prime anytime soon, so being stuck with this for one of the weapons i would say it the coolest in the game, turned into another generic gun is just blehhhhhh.

Edit: Just i would have been happy to see maybe it having a extra charging layer that was slower but more powerful. Maybe even one shot per magazine but more oomph to it. Just something a bit more interesting than another gun with 8-15 magazine and high damage.

Edited March 10, 2019 by MakiBadFox

[Damocles]

25 minutes ago, 17inchguns said:

The only time you will kill a 160 bombard is by the use of hunters and thats very rng based. Pre dispo nerf opticor with a literal god roll struggled against lvl120-130 enemies and sometimes failed to 1 shot them (see ksilisab video). All this with a higher dispo and higher damage of non vandal. 

Since you claim its a gas build now I straight out dont believe this claim

You probably wont. Look at current youtubers opticor vabdal rivened videos. You dont see them 1 shotting 160s, atleast not with a gas build lol

He showed me, Arcane is used (optional) but a very specific riven is mandatory

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

He showed me, Arcane is used (optional) but a very specific riven is mandatory

+ CC + DMG + SC - Puncture?

[Leyers_of_facade]

1 minute ago, Datam4ss said:

+ CC + DMG + SC - Puncture?

Close, mine is + dmg + cd + tox - puncture
I am gonna guess that + cc or potentially + ms instead of + dmg could make it better, the other 3 are pretty much set and stone imo.

[Damocles]

so I guess it's time to spend 10k for MS,CC,Tox, neg punc Opticor riven

[17inchguns]

hace 44 minutos, Descent-of-Damocles dijo:

He showed me, Arcane is used (optional) but a very specific riven is mandatory

What arcane? You dont need neg puncture to 1 shot the bombard, ive seen one case of a youtuber (think it was Agayguyplays) where he got lucky and 1 shot. Personally I dont count hunter munitions  as 1 shotting since you have to wait, but thats me. 

 

hace 41 minutos, Descent-of-Damocles dijo:

so I guess it's time to spend 10k for MS,CC,Tox, neg punc Opticor riven

Why? You can 1 shot lvl 160 with lanka if thats what you are after, no hunter, combo or buff. Rubico will do the same if you count hunter as 1 shotting. Makes no sense lol. 

[seprent]

4 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

But it shares no functional similarities to the Ferrox. Can you throw it? Does the Ferrox have a Magnetic Splash? Does the Ferrox have a wider hitbox? Can Ferrox fire at half-charge?

Isn't this incredibly ironic, that you would have the Ferrox Vandal to be nothing like the Ferrox in functionality? So if any two weapons have similar stats but one is slightly higher than the other, they are immediately the same weapon?

>throws opticor vandel into someones face

now i cant stop imagining throwing it into ballas's face as a overwacth reaction from xcom to stop him from taking space mom 

and the thought it hilarious 

[simplygnome]

I love it. Its a ton of fun.

[Metsudo]

To add my op to this, why does the opticor have to get a sidegrade for it's Vandal, when every other Vandal/Wraith is a direct upgrade IIRC? And why does it have to so drastically change the gunplay? As a fan of old Sparty, I feel kind of cheated. Why don't we deserve the same treatment as all the other special variants that spans over 5+ years of content?

If this was a completely new weapon, it would likely get spurned as just a ferrox with a different in game model. There is a reason why the ferrox and the opticor play differently, and it's because they are different. One focus' slow powerful shots, while the other is faster and easier to use, with a utility of it's secondary fire that adds an additional difference, but does less damage. Having the opticor vandal feel mechanically just like the ferrox feels like a cop-out.

It feels more like a DMR than a Spartan laser, and I think in doing that it looses it's unique charm. If you can't tell btw, it's really disappointed me, I was looking forward to a Vandal opticor for ages. This isn't an opticor though. Sure, it looks like one, but it doesn't play like one 😢

[17inchguns]

Counter proposition: Rename to status ferrox 

[Snydrex]

1 hour ago, MakiBadFox said:

Just simply to chip in, i have to agree. I have a so many medium rate of fire, high damage dps guns. There are so damn many while the more bizarre weaponry seems to be just endlessly falling behind or simply no longer appearing anymore. "Gimmick" guns as a whole seem progressively less interesting with most updates, i'm not saying they should be god tier weapons but they're just becoming an insanely rare breed. 

So to see a gun i was genuinely really looking forward to using just turned into another one of those guns that i have 100 of was just so extremely disappointing. I'd rather stick with the Opticor simply because it feels cool to use. I doubt we'd be seeing an Opticor prime anytime soon, so being stuck with this for one of the weapons i would say it the coolest in the game, turned into another generic gun is just blehhhhhh.

Edit: Just i would have been happy to see maybe it having a extra charging layer that was slower but more powerful. Maybe even one shot per magazine but more oomph to it. Just something a bit more interesting than another gun with 8-15 magazine and high damage.

Yes. This is my problem with the Opticor Vandal, and I couldn't have said it any better then this.

Although still technically and statistically an upgrade, I still think it lost that identity it used to possess, becoming more forgettable in the process.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Snydrex

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

On 2019-03-08 at 7:17 AM, iSolement said:

Opticor was one of the most prevalent weapons in many missions with high requirements of burst dps. But with the rise of the snipers, it has gradually slipped out of sights. 

Nonetheless, it still has a big advantage against sniper, which is the super high basis dmg.

An opticor with a nice riven can achieve 50k or even high dmg on its panel, which allows him to put a shot equal to a lanka with 2.0X combo but without any preparation,

This advantage is fairly the only remaining shining point of this weapon.

All others aspects, such as the super low cc of 20% (Not able to get 100 even with a top-level stat 3-1 riven); premature shooting(cant hold its charge shoot, the most critical point why it dosent follow the pace of current eidolon hunting)，relatively small magazine and shorter range, makes it a completely inferior alternatives of snipers.

The vandal version was deemed to be the savior of this poor outdated old guy. But it turns out to be another trash.

Opticor Vandal, compared to Opticor:
Lower charge attack damage (400.0 vs. 1000.0)
Faster charge time (0.6 s vs. 2.0 s)
Larger magazine (8 rounds vs. 5 rounds)
Faster reload speed (1.4 s vs. 2 s)

Are u serious? How could u cut half of it basis dmg when u design a superior version of a weapon

I can see people who makes this have good command of math: 400/0.6>1000/2, woo, a great buff ！

The point is that I can make opticor an automatic rife that shoots 100 rounds per second and cut its dmg to 10.001 so that it’s dps is theoretically higher but then this weapon loses all the characteristic it has.

Lets see some other comparison:

Opticor vandal v.s. Ferrox

Charge time: 0.6s v.s. 0.5s Opticor loses

CC: 24% v.s. 32% Opticor is overwhelmed 

CD: 2.6x v.s. 2.8x Opticor loses

Riven disposition: 1.15 v.s 1.1  Opticor wins but the difference is tiny.

Basis dmg: 400 v.s. 350 Opticor wins 

In general, they are fifty-fifty.

I have played this game for 1600 hrs and the only time i saw people using Ferrox is my friend who used it to break the limbs of eidolon for entertainments.

And I still remembered that we nicked name it as "Mr, Opticor. junior ". Things reverse now cause the superior version of Opticor is in some cases the inferior version of its own inferior version.

Are you really trying to buff it or simply telling folks "hey, this is the trash whose only value is 3000 rank exp"。

I fully understand that for the primed weapons such as Rubico prime who are sold in the primed bundle in cash, you will give super big buff even the weapon is already op before its prime version comes out and for the weapon used as the reward of a tedious boring mission, the same thing wont happen. 

But i just cant figure out that how could u make things like this and meanwhile claiming that you are trying to balance the weapons‘ usage.

Rubico Prime, compared to Rubico: Higher base damage (187.0 vs. 180.0)

Higher  Impact damage (149.6 vs. 144.0)

Higher  Puncture damage (28.1 vs. 27.0)

Higher  Slash damage (9.3 vs. 9.0)

Higher critical chance (38% vs. 30%)

Higher status chance (16% vs. 12%)

Higher fire rate (3.67 rounds/sec vs. 2.67 rounds/sec)

Faster reload speed (2 s vs. 2.4 s)

Different polarities ( vs. None)

Higher Mastery Rank required (12 vs. 6)

Lower zoom distance (2.5x/5x vs. 3.5x/6x)

Significantly lessened recoil.

Opticor Destroyer? Lol, more like "Opticor Destroyed“

—For someone who arguing that the weapon is trash cuz it is “free”. It is not actually. It’s the final reward of a long drowsy mission that will take at least 4hrs (can be much more if u got connection issues, don’t know how to avoid the bugs or just accidentally team up wtih the fishermen or miners). 

—For those keep arguing how useful the AOE is: The big hitscan is naturally part of the Opticor so keeping this property in the vandal version is NOT a buff. Besides, it is not that useful in most cases. When facing a group of people, weapons like Ignis ,Amprex, Phage, Khom, etc do a better job. So don’t make a small merit being a super big advantage.

 

 

Your charge time is so reduced and allows you to add more damage mods in place of the mandatory charge time mods on the regular opticar that your sustained DPS outmatches the regular opticar.

[Snydrex]

15 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

My sympathies, sincerely. We've all had moments where we see a new thing (here and irl) and get really excited for them, but then they weren't what we expected. The thing is that all the gross negative feedback I've seen about the OV boils down to "I wanted something else, a BFG". We still have the BFG, though.

If it helps, I saw a Tenno who made a point about how they love their Opticor and have put a bunch of upgrades in, but they never take it on normal missions because it's overkill for any target and too slow to deal with dispersed groups. And that the OV solves all those problems. The new gun looks as though it's intended to let players use the weapon in more situations, not to replace the original. 

Yeah, I mean, it is technically a better weapon, although slightly.

I just don't like the fact they removed so much from it, and I don't want to sound entitled or anything by suggesting they change it. It just feels like a lot of other weapons I own now, is all.

[megnamon]

I take it as my regular BG if they buff to at least 800 damage

Edited March 10, 2019 by megnamon

[17inchguns]

hace 17 minutos, (XB1)RevenantRequiem dijo:

Your charge time is so reduced and allows you to add more damage mods in place of the mandatory charge time mods on the regular opticar that your sustained DPS outmatches the regular opticar.

You can do same for regular opticor, just add fire rate mods instead of damage mods. Dpa isnt ecerything. After a certain level the regular opticor 1 shots while vandal doesent. 1 shot higher charge rate (which can be mitigated easily with arcane acceleration) vs 2 shots ehere you have to charge up again and have a risk of missing or the enemie being killed by team mate. 

This opticor vandal is personally quite a dissapointment for me. It strays from its true identity and tries to be what other weapons are, but worse. Already been said here, but its basically a status ferrox. 

They should have kept damage as is and increased cc and or fire rate. 

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

Just now, 17inchguns said:

You can do same for regular opticor, just add fire rate mods instead of damage mods. Dpa isnt ecerything. After a certain level the regular opticor 1 shots while vandal doesent. 1 shot higher charge rate (which can be mitigated easily with arcane acceleration) vs 2 shots ehere you have to charge up again and have a risk of missing or the enemie being killed by team mate. 

This opticor vandal is personally quite a dissapointment for me. It strays from its true identity and tries to be what other weapons are, but worse. Already been said here, but its basically a status ferrox. 

They should have kept damage as is and increased cc and or fire rate. 

You don't need one shots and you lower your damage by adding in fire rate mods. Regular Opticar isn't something you bring into high level stuff anyway because it drops off in damage.

Edited March 10, 2019 by (XB1)RevenantRequiem

[17inchguns]

hace 1 minuto, (XB1)RevenantRequiem dijo:

You don't need one shots and you lower your damage by adding in fire rate mods. Regular Opticar isn't something you bring into high level stuff anyway because it drops off in damage.

With a wepon like opticor, charge mechanic, i do expect 1 shots, especially on this type of game. 

It works put more or less, whether you choose to do regular opticor with fire rate mods or vandal with damage mods. However due to arcane acceleration the scale tips on favour of the non vandal imo. 

Opticor is not desnigned for low level, there arw plenty of other weapons that are far better for that, dont get your point. People tend to use opticor because of the feeling, not its eficiency at killing. 1 shot beam cannon of destruction shouldnt need multiple shots in a 40 minute plus kuva survival..m

[MobyTheDuck]

Its bad, feels really weak. Right now it feels like a proto Ferrox that wanted to be a semi auto rifle. Also the base colors are terrible, where did that dark blue came from? It looks so out of place.

The Ferrox outdamages the Opticor Vandal, having far better crits, charge speed, magazine size and punch through, while having just a bit less base damage (F:340 vs OV:400). The AoE doesn't helps since its barely there.

If it supposed to be 'a new take' on the Opticor, it went the wrong way, as ALL OTHER Vandals are upgrades to the normal weapons (Side grade in the Braton Prime case).

IMO, it should have at least 70%-80% of the damage of original, instead of only 40%.

Or go the complete opposite way, make it a REAL BFG. GIve it more damage, less charge speed, BIGGER AOE WITH EXPLOSION EFFECTS.

Edited March 10, 2019 by MobyTheDuck

[Leyers_of_facade]

1 hour ago, 17inchguns said:

What arcane? You dont need neg puncture to 1 shot the bombard, ive seen one case of a youtuber (think it was Agayguyplays) where he got lucky and 1 shot. Personally I dont count hunter munitions  as 1 shotting since you have to wait, but thats me. 

 

Why? You can 1 shot lvl 160 with lanka if thats what you are after, no hunter, combo or buff. Rubico will do the same if you count hunter as 1 shotting. Makes no sense lol. 

neg punc is for gas builds, although its also pretty good for standard corrosive since it decreases the chance of proc-ing ips which in turn means an increase in the chance of proc-ing the elementals that you want (instead of puncture which really doesn't do much), in fact the core integrity of my build relies on that negative. Imo, corrosive if you are only care about killing 1 target, but gas if you are fighting a normal horde of enemy in a mission.

In addition, you might wanna take into consideration that while standard opticor has impact as its second highest ips, vandal has slash instead. This means that with puncture removed (my riven has over -100% puncture), slash is the highest among the ips, so its more or less built-in hunter munition.

Plus, I am actually not using hunter munitions when I showed them as I was just using gas builds. (riven with dmg/cd/tox/-punc, serra, split, point, vital, mal force, thermite, infected clip)

I showed with and without arcane, guardian (which doesn't do anything for dps), avenger (Not necessary, but will make things more comfortable as my riven doesn't have crit chance to guarantee the crit every shot, it effectively makes it more reliably dishing out crits)

My point is, opticor vandal can do roughly the same as opticor in terms of dishing 1-shots (or 2 for 160 heavy gunners) on any enemies that isn't an eidolon (which you aren't really supposed to use opticor anyway) at least up to level 150s and 160s which arguably is the highest you would see in a 1 hour kuva survival, and any longer run is probably not reliant on weapon anyway (but cheese frames). 

The only issue as I had mentioned is that its somewhat exclusive as a core part of my build rests on the riven, which typically are sold at a reasonably high price. Thus, my recommendation on increasing from 40% to 50-60% in terms of base damage to lower the criteria on the riven (although -puncture is probably still staple in that case)

Edited March 10, 2019 by Leyers_of_facade
clarification

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

And yet, the opticor vandal's supplemental stats are far superior. 

[MobyTheDuck]

41 minutes ago, 17inchguns said:

Counter proposition: Rename to status ferrox 

That is an insult to the Ferrox, since it outdamages the Opticor Vandalized due the far better crits.

[17inchguns]

hace 37 minutos, Leyers_of_facade dijo:

neg punc is for gas builds, although its also pretty good for standard corrosive since it decreases the chance of proc-ing ips which in turn means an increase in the chance of proc-ing the elementals that you want (instead of puncture which really doesn't do much), in fact the core integrity of my build relies on that negative. Imo, corrosive if you are only care about killing 1 target, but gas if you are fighting a normal horde of enemy in a mission.

In addition, you might wanna take into consideration that while standard opticor has impact as its second highest ips, vandal has slash instead. This means that with puncture removed (my riven has over -100% puncture), slash is the highest among the ips, so its more or less built-in hunter munition.

Plus, I am actually not using hunter munitions when I showed them as I was just using gas builds. (riven with dmg/cd/tox/-punc, serra, split, point, vital, mal force, thermite, infected clip)

I showed with and without arcane, guardian (which doesn't do anything for dps), avenger (Not necessary, but will make things more comfortable as my riven doesn't have crit chance to guarantee the crit every shot, it effectively makes it more reliably dishing out crits)

My point is, opticor vandal can do roughly the same as opticor in terms of dishing 1-shots (or 2 for 160 heavy gunners) on any enemies that isn't an eidolon (which you aren't really supposed to use opticor anyway) at least up to level 150s, 160s which arguably is the highest you would see in a 1 hour kuva survival, and any longer run is probably not reliant on weapon anyway (but cheese frames). 

The only issue as I had mentioned is that its somewhat exclusive as a core part of my build rests on the riven, which typically are sold at a reasonably high price. Thus, my recommendation on increasing from 40% to 50-60% in terms of base damage to lower the criteria on the riven (although -puncture is probably still staple in that case)

With your riven you get 60% chance to crit iirc since no cc. If you require 3 shots to crit in order to 1 shot (I dont know this, im guessing here since you havent shown video and I have no info to go off on) that means you have a 21.6% chance to 1 shot, excluding all other variables. Seems fairly inconsistent already, and taking into acount its a charge weapon, this makes it even less appealing.

Edit: due to your build you only get a maximum of 2 shots, not 3 and a 10% chance to just shoot 1. This makes it even less believable. Your build sounds like it revolves around getting the crits and then getting bleed procs. 

There is no reason why you cant use opticor in eidolon. Its not the meta but its viable. I was able to 1 shot the eidolon with volt solo with just a shield and kavat, chroma would have it even easier. This is the true nature of opticor, a big laser of destruction...The vandal sadly will not be able to do this, again another disappointment. 

I dont agree with the use of arcanes that can  oost damage in these tests. Despite this of im not mistaken avenger gives 30% boost to cc at max rank, which in fact still wouldnt gurantee you to crit. 

You can bet that without a riven there is no chance you 1 shot a lvl 160 lol. Personally i think a viral build is better than gas but thats another topic and I need to test. However claiming the vandal 1 shots up to lvl 160 like you say is totally not true, just look at the youtube riven video testers. Ive seen all I have to see. And as I said before, ksilisabs pre dispo nerf opticor riven video is enough to tell me there is no way in hell that opticor 1 shots 160s, let alone the vandal. 

If you show us with actual video evidence I am prepared to accept i am wrong, otherwise i just cant believe it after all the evidence ive seen. 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by 17inchguns

[Renzo]

I think the opticor vandal is a huge improvement over the old one. Not only can you land 3 shots at base damage of 400 in the same time as you can shoot once for 1000 with the normal opticor, you get increased crit chance, crit multiplier and much higher status chance. When I mod both opticors with my riven, requiring vile acceleration for the old opticor, I indeed get substantially higher damage per shot for it. However the vandal version sports twice the sustained dps (this includes reloading) which makes it really awesome weapon for continuous firing and shooting multiple enemies that are not coming straight at you in a tight corridor.

This is exactly what I would want from a "vandal" variant to the opticor, faster weapon to use at the expense of lost damage per shot while gaining ability to sustain much higher dps output. I just did today's sorties (survival and extermination/augmented armor) and the vandal version felt really nice and fast and actually usable.

I also tested the vandal variant in simulacrum against lv165 corrupted heavy gunners and opticor vandal indeed takes them down much faster than the original opticor. I am actually using dualstat mods on the vandal version instead of the normal 90% mods that I use with the old opticor.

The stats using warframe builder with my builds (riven) for both weapons fully charged are:

• Opticor: 128863 damage per shot, 57477 sustained dps (with reloads)
• Opticor Vandal: 85375 damage per shot, 126481 sustained dps (with reloads)

Pure dps numbers don't take the effectiveness into account, like status procs, but it gives some sort of an comparison number.

[Leyers_of_facade]

41 minutes ago, 17inchguns said:

With your riven you get 60% chance to crit iirc since no cc. If you require 3 shots to crit in order to 1 shot (I dont know this, im guessing here since you havent shown video and I have no info to go off on) that means you have a 21.6% chance to 1 shot, excluding all other variables. Seems fairly inconsistent already, and taking into acount its a charge weapon, this makes it even less appealing.

I dont agree with the use of arcanes that can  oost damage in these tests. Despite this of im not mistaken avenger gives 30% boost to cc at max rank, which in fact still wouldnt gurantee you to crit. 

You can bet that without a riven there is no chance you 1 shot a lvl 160 lol. Personally i think a viral build is better than gas but thats another topic and I need to test. However claiming the vandal 1 shots up to lvl 160 like you say is totally not true, just look at the youtube riven video testers. Ive seen all I have to see. And as I said before, ksilisabs pre dispo nerf opticor riven video is enough to tell me there is no way in hell that opticor 1 shots 160s, let alone the vandal. 

If you show us with actual video evidence I am prepared to accept i am wrong, otherwise i just cant believe it after all the evidence ive seen. 

 

 

Sigh.. I really don't want to post video footage because it would more or less suggest that opticor vandal doesn't need a buff (which I still welcome and welcome because I like opticor and I don't believe its fair to make a riven being mandatory to make it awesome)

For fairness and potential issue of stealth, all enemies are NOT set to sit still, invulnerability set to self doesn't have any impact (and I pretty much I have to use it since I had to remove several of my warframe mods and all arcanes so nothing clogs up the UI)

Anyway, Level 160 bombard: This is with a standard corrosive HM build

https://gfycat.com/FragrantElderlyBighornedsheep

Level 160 bombard: Also corrosive, but this time even without HM, considering how argon scope was proc after my shot, it probably doesn't have an influence, still 1 shot but took a bit longer

https://gfycat.com/HandmadeObeseLeveret

Level 160 Heavy Gunner: This is with Gas build, As I said, 2 shots, 1 shot is doable with rng or the help of avenger for that extra crit chance (which I didn't use in the footage). Take in mind the fact that gas builds perform even better in a group.

 

https://gfycat.com/GiftedSomeHarvestmouse

Neither had the use of arcane. I can make better footage when I have more time.

Sadly, I didn't have a recorder ready when I managed to kill 8 level 160s in 3 shot (when I showed Descent-of-Damocles) 

---

Also take in mind that I didn't even have my kitty equipped, I take her to my missions all the time, and a slash proc aggro her to finish my target, and if she is nice enough to proc a crit charm on top of my avenger, vandal is still an absolute monster.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Leyers_of_facade
addition