Here are the Opticor Vandal Stats

[rand0mname]

I can not understand what OP wants.

Direct damage upgrade so Opticor Vandal can do as much DPS as top snipers vs Eidolons?

Edited March 9, 2019 by rand0mname

[Loza03]

2 hours ago, nonscience said:

I understand the feeling, not the complaint.

The gun is fun, if it had any other name, people would have called it "opticor's nephew" anyway and moved on. 

Exactly.

It bears Opticor's name, so it holds Opticor standards

[Oreades]

Eh I dunno if I would call it a joke, a bit underwhealming at first glance BUT with that rate of fire it might be primed for some interesting builds. 

That said I"d almost have been happier if it had the same charge rate but not the auto fire mechanic, which is my primary gripe with the Opticor. At the end of the day my M1 Frogtank build will probably keep sporting the old slow Opticor because it seems like it has a bit more potential to yeet things out of existence. 

Tho maybe the quickfire will grow on me *ascii shrug*

[Althaline]

2 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Kohm does that and no one is whining

That's because it's not called 'Tigris Wraith'. Just like nobody complained when Ferrox was introduced, it's a different weapon and has a different feel and purpose.

[nonscience]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Exactly.

It bears Opticor's name, so it holds Opticor standards

Three times 400 damage in under 2 sec vs 1000 per 2 sec holds to it if you're into dps. Twenty percent increase in damage isn't nothing.
Still no problem against 150 units so far with the few formas invested, I like it and it works.

Now if you're speaking about how it feels compared to the original, that's up to you, no argument.

 

6 hours ago, Snydrex said:

So, what we have here is basically a ferrox with
- An almost insignificant +50 damage
- Faster fire rate
- Smaller magazine
- Smaller Ammo pool
- Less crit chance
- Less crit multiplier
- Less punch through
- More status (20%more)
- Faster reload
- And no secondary fire.

About this comment, just for perspective.

A bump of 50 damage in this case isn't insignificant, it's a 14% increase and in these days where people complain about loosing 6% over the new serration mod (that's the real total loss in damage), I don't understand the logic.

Also, the status should not be understood as a 20% increase but a 200% increase, since you're three times likely to get a proc.
Just to have a fair comparison, nothing to do with saying you're right or wrong.

Edited March 9, 2019 by nonscience

[Bronjun]

2 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Kohm does that and no one is whining.

Less damage but more critical/status and really high fire rate. Same MR though, it sounds fair to me. People are just salty cause they didn't get the new toy they wanted this christmas. If one prefers the old Opticor then use it, we aren't forced to use anything in this game.

As stated MANY times in this thread, the problem isn't with DPS, it's the identity crisis we have. You would expect it to preserve the original's characteristics, not just particle effects. How would you like a Rubico Prime that has 40% of original's damage but shoots 3 times faster? Sounds like a fvcking Latron Prime to me. 

[Bronjun]

19 minutes ago, Iamabearlulz said:

That's because it's not called 'Tigris Wraith'. Just like nobody complained when Ferrox was introduced, it's a different weapon and has a different feel and purpose.

Exactly. It's like Spira Prime again. When it was introduced it had NONE of the expected features and instead looked like a pitiful upgrade for Kunai. 

[Damocles]

Here's a thought, make regular opticor the vandal, and the current vandal the new regular. The current piece of unlinkable garbage we know as opticor vandal is the single worst trade deal in the history of trade deals in 2019. -60% dmg, for about 100% fire rate = double fire rate for less than half the damage.

Only way to fix this is if DE comes out and says, "we fat fingered 400 dmg but we really mean to put in 1400"

[-S-O--Sephiroth-Crescent]

vor 49 Minuten schrieb nonscience:

Three times 400 damage in under 2 sec vs 1000 per 2 sec holds to it if you're into dps. Twenty percent increase in damage isn't nothing.
Still no problem against 150 units so far with the few formas invested, I like it and it works.

Now if you're speaking about how it feels compared to the original, that's up to you, no argument.

 

About this comment, just for perspective.

A bump of 50 damage in this case isn't insignificant, it's a 14% increase and in these days where people complain about loosing 6% over the new serration mod (that's the real total loss in damage), I don't understand the logic.

Also, the status should not be understood as a 20% increase but a 200% increase, since you're three times likely to get a proc.
Just to have a fair comparison, nothing to do with saying you're right or wrong.

Ferrox has a 8% HIGHER crit chance and a 2.8 BASE multi...and  MORE punchthrough give the vandal opticor MORE dmg ^^

[nonscience]

Just now, -S-O--Sephiroth-Crescent said:

Ferrox has a 8% HIGHER crit chance and a 2.8 BASE multi...and  MORE punchthrough give the vandal opticor MORE dmg ^^

Agreed, I never said anything about that part though. Merely underline that when comparing weapons for optimal purpose, you need correct intel. As stated in my comment, fair comparison, nothing to do with right and wrong. I said nothing about the ferrox being weaker or better than opticor vandal.

While I'm here, I don't see the point of mentioning a lack of secondary fire as a negative. It's a weapon dependent mechanic, by that logic the OG opticor is weaker than say Hind because the hind has a secondary fire option. That being said, I don't see many people throwing away their ferrow anyway.

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, nonscience said:

Now if you're speaking about how it feels compared to the original, that's up to you, no argument.

More or less what I'm referring to.

[nonscience]

Just now, Loza03 said:

More or less what I'm referring to.

I can totally get that. When I first saw the stats, I was puzzled. Now that I used it I see more clearly the place it holds in my loadouts and I'm surprised 🙂

[Snydrex]

2 hours ago, nonscience said:

About this comment, just for perspective.

A bump of 50 damage in this case isn't insignificant, it's a 14% increase and in these days where people complain about loosing 6% over the new serration mod (that's the real total loss in damage), I don't understand the logic.

Also, the status should not be understood as a 20% increase but a 200% increase, since you're three times likely to get a proc.
Just to have a fair comparison, nothing to do with saying you're right or wrong.

Yes, this is true, but I, personally would still consider any damage boost under 20% still quite insignificant. Noticable? Sure, after all it is a damage boost one way or another. But from my perspective, it becomes that the only damage difference that this has from the ferrox in the end is separated by 50, or, in the accurate terms you used, 14%, and the lack of extra crit/multiplier still would make it feel weak against individual opponents.... Well, to me.

As for your note on the status, I agree. it is more accurate, and I should have elaborated. Sorry about that.

My main argument, as I've said before, is that the identity I most commonly associated with the Opticor is gone, and I don't know how I feel about that.

[000l000]

Il y a 2 heures, Bronjun a dit :

As stated MANY times in this thread, the problem isn't with DPS, it's the identity crisis we have. You would expect it to preserve the original's characteristics, not just particle effects. How would you like a Rubico Prime that has 40% of original's damage but shoots 3 times faster? Sounds like a fvcking Latron Prime to me. 

You can state anything as many times as you want, that doesn't make it more relevant. Did you read anywhere that weapons variations were supposed to be copy/paste of vanillas with moar damage ? I don't think so cause everyone here seems to be salty enough to literally make up rules that never existed.

Some weapons trade critical for status, some have alternate fires, some actually have different primary fire (Cernos for example). There's nothing wrong with Opticor Vandal even if it's not necessarily what some people here wanted it to be (i.e more damage, if you're naive enough to think that such a weapon could have a more damageing variant..).

Edited March 9, 2019 by 000l000

[SenorClipClop]

2 hours ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

double fire rate

It's about quadruple the fire rate and has better supplementals.

[nonscience]

14 minutes ago, Snydrex said:

Yes, this is true, but I, personally would still consider any damage boost under 20% still quite insignificant. Noticable? Sure, after all it is a damage boost one way or another. But from my perspective, it becomes that the only damage difference that this has from the ferrox in the end is separated by 50, or, in the accurate terms you used, 14%, and the lack of extra crit/multiplier still would make it feel weak against individual opponents.... Well, to me.

As for your note on the status, I agree. it is more accurate, and I should have elaborated. Sorry about that.

My main argument, as I've said before, is that the identity I most commonly associated with the Opticor is gone, and I don't know how I feel about that.

No problem here, I got it ^^

Yeah, the regular opticor has a very satisfying oomph to it. Been a user since it came out when people said it was impossible to play with the charge time (incidently, it made me fall in love with the daikyu which I pretty much consider as a more demanding opticor). One has to recognise the power and awesomeness of the orbital cannon 😄

On a personal level, I'd go with the opticor vandal over the ferrox for that still lovely corpse dissolving ability. Guilty pleasure to stealth kill with a hushed loki leaving no trace to alarm the mobs!

[SenorClipClop]

25 minutes ago, Snydrex said:

the identity I most commonly associated with the Opticor is gone, and I don't know how I feel about that.

I didn't pour over the patch notes with a magnifying class, but I'm pretty sure the Opticor remains unchanged. There's a variant of the weapon now with a different take on the gun, but if you want the Opticor and what it does as normal, we already have a gun which does that.

When white chocolate was invented, would it have made sense for lovers of regular chocolate to lament regular chocolate's loss of identity, or would people have just continued eating regular chocolate?

[000l000]

il y a 6 minutes, SenorClipClop a dit :

When white chocolate was invented, would it have made sense for lovers of regular chocolate to lament regular chocolate's loss of identity, or would people have just continued eating regular chocolate?

[XaoGarrent]

Y'know, you could just increase the charge time to 1.5 seconds and keep the damage at 1000, and proportionally that would be the same DPS while still living up to the standards set by the original Opticor.

Or alternatively, give it 700 base damage, and increase the charge time slightly to one 1 second. Then you can get something that is almost a .5 second charge time with Vile Acceleration, something people who run the OG Opticor tend to use already, or you can run it without it and slot something different. It's still more of a sidegrade, but with the Opticor's unique flavor of "erase people with a huge laser" still intact.

Edited March 9, 2019 by XaoGarrent

[FlyingDice]

7 hours ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

Upgrading the Opticor - by cutting it's base damage down to 40% - yes we have a winner - the Opticor Vandal.

Let the player-base grind for it during a new grindy event where it will be the top prize - players that gets to the grindy top will have no clue what they are really getting - Mastery fodder.

With my riven for it, my Opticor easily hits mid-6 digit damage numbers. I never run it in regular missions because it's massive overkill on single targets, too slow to get a lot of the finnicky bosses with, and not useful for dispersed groups.

This new variant alleviates all of those issues.

[Ramflax]

I quite perfer the vandal variant over the base, sure the base was the definition of a BFG but vadal doesn't have be a true upgrade. I find the lower damage paired with the needed auxiliary stats being buffed to a fun level makes the vandal a much more enjoyable gun than the base.

[Demaneth]

2 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Except white chocolate is completly different for me, I mean, vandals/wraith could be like having chocolate with almonds

Edited March 9, 2019 by Demaneth

[Damocles]

2 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

It's about quadruple the fire rate and has better supplementals.

fire rate of 2 vs 1 on stat sheet. idk if that's accurate or not though but if feels accurate enough that I can get 2x 40% shots vs 1x100%

[nslay]

2 minutes ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

fire rate of 2 vs 1 on stat sheet. idk if that's accurate or not though but if feels accurate enough that I can get 2x 40% shots vs 1x100%

It's 10/3 vs 1... so about 3 shots vandal for every shot vanilla.

0.6*3=1.8 vs 2

[Obviousclone]

It seems to be a strict downgrade

and I mean 100% absolute strict

 

if I want an opticor that does like half the damage but charges twice as fast

I would just fire the regular opticor at half charge. It will deal less damage, but it will kill everything all the same at half the charge time.

As it stands, the only value behind this new opticor is the 8 magazine size and faster reload, both of which aren't even as good due to the actual base damages being made less efficient.

 

Also thank you for nerfing the opticor automatic body disintegration, real nice stealth nerf for stealth gameplay we have there