Critical Limbo change required

[Erytroxylin]

I was thinking about why I don't like having Limbo on my team usually and I always come back to cataclysm. They already fixed limbo's one, but his cataclysm is still very troll. What I don't understand is why cataclysm even blocks bullets at all? When things cross the boundary between, they shift from rift to non-rift so it shouldn't matter at all. The bullets cross the cataclysm boundary and shift to the dimension outside. It doesn't make sense in it's current form how cataclysm operates. It shouldn't block bullets going either way at all. Please fix, thanks.

[GnarlsDarkley]

Why do all people hate on Limbo/Cataclysm?

You cannot shoot into Frost's Snow Globe as well. You are even blocked from Void Dashing into the Globe but not Catalysm

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

You can shoot out of the snow globe though.  Unless you have one of the idiot frosts that I've seen who drop them all over the place all willy nilly making it so you just have these stupid bubbles blocking major sight lines.

Anyway, making the cataclysm not block bullets at its boundary, even if just outgoing, would probably be way overpowered.  Enemies can break down Gara's walls, or go over them.  Enemies can break down Frost's bubble, or just walk into it.  What can they do about the Cataclysm?  Usually nothing.  Some enemies can ignore it without dispelling it, but they're in the vast minority.  Giving the players a safe haven that probably 95% of enemies can do literally nothing about?  I like playing Limbo, but that's just too much.

[bibmobello]

10 hours ago, Erytroxylin said:

I was thinking about why I don't like having Limbo on my team usually and I always come back to cataclysm. They already fixed limbo's one, but his cataclysm is still very troll. What I don't understand is why cataclysm even blocks bullets at all? When things cross the boundary between, they shift from rift to non-rift so it shouldn't matter at all. The bullets cross the cataclysm boundary and shift to the dimension outside. It doesn't make sense in it's current form how cataclysm operates. It shouldn't block bullets going either way at all. Please fix, thanks.

I was thinking the same. Enemies can enter inside but bullets can't, mysteries of games logic...

Edited March 10, 2019 by bibmobello

[Snydrex]

The mechanics for Limbo's 4 are fairly straightforward. If you want to kill the enemies, step into the bubble, or better yet, if you have a offensive warframe, your powers will go through the rift and kill with ease. I admit that it's sort of an inconvenience, but it's also how he's worked since day one, so I'm assuming there's a good reason why he operates the way he does. Isolation and crowd control are the predominant reasons, and if bullets/melee could go through the rift, even enemies', I imagine Limbo would also lose his pseudo-invincibility, and bullets would be able to hit any defense/mobile defense target he protects..

On a slightly unrelated note, My main problem with Limbo, as someone who frequents him, is the fact he can't hack in the rift.

Not because of any broken game mechanics or things that would be considered OP, but simply, back in the days where raids still existed, Limbo could hack through the rift and cheese some of the challenges. DE noticed this, of course, and nerfed Limbo's rift-hacking. But now that Raids are gone, there's no need to have that relic of the past plaguing his kit. The only function it serves is to troll people who are trying to hack, (Unless that was changed) And I think they should give that back to him. I suppose this sort of relates to that, considering how we're discussing 'common sense'.

[The_Mustachio]

I get where you’re coming. DE logic can be confusing sometimes. Limbo can’t shoot in either side of the bubble. Frost can only shoot one way. Gara can shoot through both directions. 

Balance I guess, I don’t know. 

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, Erytroxylin said:

When things cross the boundary between, they shift from rift to non-rift so it shouldn't matter at all. The bullets cross the cataclysm boundary and shift to the dimension outside. It doesn't make sense in it's current form how cataclysm operates. It shouldn't block bullets going either way at all. Please fix, thanks.

LoL... if thats the case then the same thing should apply to the enemies Bullets Right ? If the crossover into the Rift then they should damage you.... making Cataclysm just a fancy visual filter to commemorate youd impending doom. 

 

[Erytroxylin]

7 hours ago, Lutesque said:

if thats the case then the same thing should apply to the enemies Bullets Right ?

Yes, that is what I want.

[AlchemicMike]

Two things: Headcannon explanation for bullets is that they're too small to be pulled into or out of the rift alone. The gun is large enough to be affected, which causes the bullets to enter this rift. This is why fired projectiles don't get banished upon entering/leaving the rift.

Second thing: Enemies in the rift are banished. Whether they enter it from crossing the cataclysm barrier or from a Limbo boopin' them with his 1, they are now in the rift. If you want bullets to be unaffected by the rift, you turn both cataclysm and banish into a "You can now stop time on this enemy" buff because those bullets are going to hit you either way.

In short: You want a Frost or Gara, not Limbo.

[Kerberos-3]

39 minutes ago, Erytroxylin said:

Yes, that is what I want.

Why though? This removes the entire defensive benefit of Limbo as a frame and leaves him as a pure CC frame. We all know how well pure CC frames do in this game......

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

10 hours ago, Erytroxylin said:

I was thinking about why I don't like having Limbo on my team usually and I always come back to cataclysm. They already fixed limbo's one, but his cataclysm is still very troll. What I don't understand is why cataclysm even blocks bullets at all? When things cross the boundary between, they shift from rift to non-rift so it shouldn't matter at all. The bullets cross the cataclysm boundary and shift to the dimension outside. It doesn't make sense in it's current form how cataclysm operates. It shouldn't block bullets going either way at all. Please fix, thanks.

Limbo's cataclysm is awesome though. So u have to leave cataclysm to shoot out or enter to shoot in... Big deal. Are your legs broken?

[Erytroxylin]

5 hours ago, Kerberos-3 said:

This removes the entire defensive benefit of Limbo as a frame and leaves him as a pure CC frame.

That's fine. They can simply rework cataclysm to have higher damage on pop, and deal damage to enemies inside it.

[Althaline]

1 hour ago, Erytroxylin said:

That's fine. They can simply rework cataclysm to have higher damage on pop, and deal damage to enemies inside it.

So, what you are saying is that you don't like Limbo or any of his mechanics, and think he should be deleted.

[Chaincat]

reminder that if you shoot through cataclysm, you can hit enemies on the other side who are also not in the rift. You only can't shoot enemies inside the rift unless you yourself are in the rift

[tyranno66]

1 hour ago, Erytroxylin said:

That's fine. They can simply rework cataclysm to have higher damage on pop, and deal damage to enemies inside it.

Originally it did do more damage. We called him Limbomb for those couple of weeks because it was just cataclysm spam of popping one down and then closing it. People were not happy with that because of eye bleed.

[HoboKnoght]

17 hours ago, Snydrex said:

On a slightly unrelated note, My main problem with Limbo, as someone who frequents him, is the fact he can't hack in the rift.

Operator ignores the rift, u can still hack in cata using operator 😛

 

 

17 hours ago, The_Mustachio said:

I get where you’re coming. DE logic can be confusing sometimes. Limbo can’t shoot in either side of the bubble. Frost can only shoot one way. Gara can shoot through both directions. 

Balance I guess, I don’t know. 

Not entirely correct, if you're in rift mode and outside the bubble, you can still shoot enemies that are inside the bubble from the outside.

While i can see where OP is coming from, as i limbo mainer myself there are situations were cata can be more convenient than the "halt the game" frame people make it out to be. I, personally go with situational build where one is the max range duration cata for defensive purposes and a little APS (action per second) requirement rift-step i devised, basically equipping a single hand secondary and an orvius, tossing it between rift dashing if bubble seems to annoy people. However, i had two cannisters destroyed by the said group whom were unhappy with the bubble, in which i simply disregarded their wish at that point, coz their fun was delaying my progress. 
To be honest, i wouldn't mind cata being a bubble you cast around yourself and move with it (instead of being stationary you equip the bubble onto yourself and it covers you and moves with you etc. same mechanics with cata bubble as it freezes)

[TzXtetriC]

Thats why rift surge exists, to stand inside the globe and shoot enemies outside of it. Not many limbo's use it tho.
Its time to move on and leave limbo do his job, adapt or die.

[DrivaMain]

Ever heard of rift surge? That thing to exist to solve “I cant damage people outside of cataclysm REEEEEE”. Just ask your teammate’s limbo to spam the hell of the ability so you can shoot enemies in the bubble, because the abilty does an AoE banish when the target leaves the rift/bubble.

[Mr.SpookSpook]

19 hours ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

Why do all people hate on Limbo/Cataclysm?

Because they are way too dumb to change their point and click playstyle.

[Snydrex]

6 hours ago, HoboKnoght said:

Operator ignores the rift, u can still hack in cata using operator 😛

Err... I know. But that's not the issue I presented. It could be excused as an eye-roll "Just press 5" issue, but I still think that it could be annoying for new players and anyone who tries to hack with a warframe on attempt 1.

My arguments were: hackless limbo in the rift is

- A relic of the past, in all technicality, and doesn't need to exist anymore.

- An unintentional/intentional jape for warframes who try to hack.

But yeah, back on topic. Any ability that prevents your friends from hurting something already has arguable trolling potential, and can be frustrating to deal with if you're like limbo and have it as a very important part of his kit.

DE did try to do something about this with the warframe abilities hurting people on both sides, but even that can't really sate the masses on this issue, I suppose.

[Asphyxiants]

[Renginus]

I think we can talk about limbo as defensive frame

i understand what ur talking about i agree its weird but if enemy can shoot and damage you and objects in cataclysm its pointles cuz u cant use 2 on enemy out of it 

[Erytroxylin]

15 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

So, what you are saying is that you don't like Limbo or any of his mechanics, and think he should be deleted.

Not deleted, just prevent him from slowing down missions 🙂

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

6 hours ago, Asphyxiants said:

[Nomasto]

It's boring to read this arleady. I love low range, big duration Limbo on Defense, or high Range with Saryn/volt as killers, it's hella op and easy. You can always jumo arround and kill stuff, no need to lock yourself in safe frost bubble, where problems wont touch ya.
 

Also, Limbo is top tier go-for in case of Excavation, Mobile Defense or interception. He's also good for Defense if people could stop crying.

Making bullets able to go throu cataclysm is the most stupid thing i've ever heared. Is it some kind of troll?