Don't think I've enjoyed Warframe more than between U8 and U10.

[Cicatrice]

11 minutes ago, xveganrox said:

What actually happened: Everyone was permanently invincible and stood in place for an hour shooting Acrid into a Vortex until they rage quit after 3 consecutive fusion core packs in a row.

 

100% this. The grind was awful back then - normal Nyx is still my most played frame due to Xini (void key farmin) and I sold that frame in 14.8 when Nyx prime was released. A frame I sold 5 years ago is still my most played because of the old grinds. (Founder)

[taiiat]

i wasn't sure where you could be going with this when i read the Title, but ok, now i see.

sure, more towards the core the game isn't any different from mid 2013. more Equipment and Stats but no purpose to have them or reason to put more effort into Gameplay past doing it because you feel like it (and ofcourse, the game generally going to the antithesis and rewarding standing around doing nothing and rewarding holding W the entire Mission - while punishing Players for putting in high effort to use all of the game mechanics... Et Cetera).

sure, in the very recent times there's been some more stuff to do to occupy time again, though that's not really the same as the constant stream of Events that was really what gave you something to do on a regular basis in the 2014-2015 times. introducing new Enemies or mechanics so that while what you were playing wasn't really any different than what you'd been doing for thousands of hours before that, it was still something new and ergo had some interest to play and then it went away before it completely dried up its welcome via repetition.

 

 

i guess just like always, it comes back to a few core pillars for Players to have direction and drive in the longrun.

• acknowledging(rather than basically punishing) Endurance or extended Gameplay with Scaling rewards that makes it preferable to play longer, but not making short play segments dramatically less profitable.
  • if Players say they don't want to feel like they have to play for hours at a time to make progression somewhat efficiently - why doesn't this apply in the reverse direction? the bloody hell do i want Loading Screens the game. why can't everything be an option. why is it only one extreme or the other.
• content that offers more 'difficulty' than getting bored slower than the game does.
  • with Enemies that are therefore more interesting than just a walking fleshbag of XP with a Gun.
• special content that changes the landscape of the game. Events in some form are certainly important. whether that be community Events that determine major game direction, Narrative content that determines individual Players, or things in between.
• being able to get the 23587628964 types of Credits that every longterm game ends up having in many ways, to reduce burnout and let Players play what sounds fun at that current time while still being atleast somewhat time practical to do so.

Et Cetera. and in the really long run, Difficulty cannot be trivialized without also starting to burn Player interest. if 'playing the game' feels like it entails walking from A to B while waiting for Timers - it's a lot harder to keep people interested then.

or in short, a game would be a bit of a fool to only support the bottom end or the top end. when... you can do both without doing double the work. idunno i want to play the game a lot, i want to use the Game Mechanics that are really, really different from the rest of the Industry (as always, mainly Parkour - but now that we're making some stuff flow better, all forms of Mobility too - mixing Parkour with Spacekid with Weapons with Abilities for really fast, deep Combat that has me constantly doing things to move faster and perform better in Combat, Et Cetera). just gotta give me stuff to do with those Game Mechanics, and not punish me for using them rather than going mostly AFK in a stationary position and waiting for Timers. because that's just not engaging.
there is bits of content here and there that does that, where what you're supposed to do isn't immune to Game Mechanics (literally one of the most uninteresting things in all of Video Games, when Enemies are immune to the game), allows for a high Skill Ceiling, while still being flexible and letting you goof around some. always on your toes, but not always having to be on the best 'game' of your life.

at the very least though, if content isn't immune to Game Mechanics and doesn't cheat to try and create perceived Difficulty, and it atleast doesn't punish me for not AFKFarming even if it doesn't really reward me - atleast that is something to really do then. but not encouraging putting in more effort and playing more with Rewards to match (exclusive Equipment or w/e isn't necessary, i don't need to have things other Players don't - i think it would be found pretty much all of the top 0.1% Players don't care about bragging, it's all the rest of the Playerbase that's more inclined to do that actually...) for going above and beyond, well that's something to do and use all of the Game Mechanics on.

 

in much shorter - there's a lot more Game Mechanics to use and master, but ironically, there's less to use all of that stuff we have been given over the years on/with.
what does more Stats even give me if there's less to actually do now than in history. hell i'm quite grumbly about grinding 'not Void Keys' and playing Void Tears because for the most part that involves.... going AFK for dozens of hours at a time in random whatever Missions that are completely inappropriate for me to be playing as a Player. but i'm apparently not allowed to have Missions that push back some. just wait for Timers instead.
but it's not all bleak - very, very recently some new stuff appears into the game, and a lot of it can be multi-tasked which helps reduce burnout of replaying the basic Objectives we've already played for thousands of hours via sheer repetition, and also means that what you're doing can get changed up and doesn't always go exactly to plan. not only does that feel closer to a universe that's actually doing things and not frozen in time, it's just more things to do at once. while like i said about mixing Parkour,Spacekid,Weapons,Abilities,Vehicles,Et Cetera - giving me more i can do at any one time so that i don't have to be idle and also shouldn't be idle because there's always more i can be doing that involves more than just holding W or clicking to verify that i am awake and present. and the content that works well, is content that has a flexible Skill Floor, but doesn't also put the Skill Ceiling at the same height. because if you do that, is it still even really a game?

ok i'm trying to stop but i'm not quite done yet - for example, recently i started playing Spiders with Mirage. not only can i technically deal more Damage with Eclipse&Hall of Mirrors anyways, it's also a lot harder to play and really pushes me to use all of those Game Mechanics. it's... a lot more fun than the safe options. and thankfully, Spidres are immune to less Game Mechanics than Eidolons, so i can make choices like that and still push myself, AND still be efficient if i do push myself.
ofcourse, i get it. not everyone wants that. i know someone that says Spiders are 'completely anti-fun', and yet prefers to play Profit Taker Stage 2 which is fast but also one of the most boring things in the game. but, somehow, considers that fun. i'm not really sure how Teleporting from A to B and waiting for Timers, then Teleporting again and waiting for some more Timers, meanwhile ignoring Enemies because they're irrelevant, is..... fun. to me it sounds like someone that doesn't want to put in effort. doesn't mean the game has to only go one extreme or the other.

14 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

Or phoenix intercept escalation? Old draco tile, lv 130-150 grineers, heavy blade only, no acolyte mods, no condition overload, and the strongest melee weapon was the Scindo Prime? 

at that point in time, Phoenix Intercept+ was great! friends and i enjoyed completing it. since at that point in time, there were much less in options to Exponentially Multiply Damage, so Enemies had to be Killed like you would expect to. 
i'm not sure i really would've called it hard, it was within a range of something that which did Kill Players sometimes, but still completed just fine.
most people said that they AFK'd it with CC... my Squad Killed as many Enemies as possible because standing around was not something fun to do.

Edited March 13, 2019 by taiiat

[Xzorn]

46 minutes ago, xveganrox said:

What people remember: Dangerous, exciting endless tower missions that pushed their squads to their absolute limit and rewarded them with the rarest and most valuable items in the game as markers of their elite skills

What actually happened: Everyone was permanently invincible and stood in place for an hour shooting Acrid into a Vortex until they rage quit after 3 consecutive fusion core packs in a row.

 

That wasn't how I ever played Endless missions or still do. My most popular video is the one I think is the dumbest, sadly.

I ran various team comps with friends, made it quite far even back then and had a lot of fun.

Difference is players could choose such tactics like sewer camping or players who wanted that exciting, dangerous content could find it far easier than now. I used to push around 40 min Solo for most frames. Now it take 2-3+ hours and I make an effort not to use Specters.

I guess my point is don't confuse the choice to cheese with the availability which we now lack as it's no longer a reasonable time investment. Playing in a group? Pshh forget about it. If we even put half effort into a team comp we'll be in the mission for 13 hours. Like, what am I supposed to do with literally 18,860,000 eHP?

[xveganrox]

2 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

That wasn't how I ever played Endless missions or still do. My most popular video is the one I think is the dumbest, sadly.

I ran various team comps with friends, made it quite far even back then and had a lot of fun.

Difference is players could choose such tactics like sewer camping or players who wanted that exciting, dangerous content could find it far easier than now. I used to push around 40 min Solo for most frames. Now it take 2-3+ hours and I make an effort not to use Specters.

I guess my point is don't confuse the choice to cheese with the availability which we now lack as it's no longer a reasonable time investment. Playing in a group? Pshh forget about it. If we even put half effort into a team comp we'll be in the mission for 13 hours. Like, what am I supposed to do with literally 18,860,000 eHP?

We did have fun, though! I mean the first time we went into T3 defense (there was no T4 then), we barely made it ten minutes. I think it was Frost, Ash, and 2 Excalibur, kitted out with Burstons and Bratons and Dual Heat Swords... Maybe two forma between us and a single prime (Latron) aside from Excaliburs. After playing longer though it got easy quickly, and it never got any harder. Hard invincibility, hard CC, max puncture damage for grineer armor (switched to corrosive, or corrosive projection now, same thing in principle), multiplicative damage multipliers. You could either use them and get rewards or not use them and flail around until you were forced to extract with a handful of fusion cores. Since the old endless tower system only cost one run (but didn't guarantee any drops), it heavily incentivized min-maxing and long runs... Which inevitably turned into the boring meta.

If you're soloing Mot for 3 hours you're using the same level of cheese we used back then -- you're min-maxing to some extent, effectively utilizing mods and powers, etc. That's what the game pushes you to do and it's what you want to do, after all nobody wants to play a bunch and not feel like they've gotten any better or stronger. The only difference now is that you aren't pushed to run endless missions now. Take all your mods off and don't use any powers and run Mot -- that's pretty dangerous. Not much fun though, either. WF has always had the same problem with difficulty scaling, since it just beefs up numbers.

[Hypernaut1]

36 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

That wasn't how I ever played Endless missions or still do. My most popular video is the one I think is the dumbest, sadly.

I ran various team comps with friends, made it quite far even back then and had a lot of fun.

Difference is players could choose such tactics like sewer camping or players who wanted that exciting, dangerous content could find it far easier than now. I used to push around 40 min Solo for most frames. Now it take 2-3+ hours and I make an effort not to use Specters.

I guess my point is don't confuse the choice to cheese with the availability which we now lack as it's no longer a reasonable time investment. Playing in a group? Pshh forget about it. If we even put half effort into a team comp we'll be in the mission for 13 hours. Like, what am I supposed to do with literally 18,860,000 eHP?

But you can "choose" to do the same things now and even more...

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 1 heure, Hypernaut1 a dit :

But you can "choose" to do the same things now and even more...

Yes, but the difference is that by 2015 i could do that and be challenged seriously before the 40 mins mark in T4. Now to get the same result i need two hours or more. Which means it's way more boring, way more time consuming and i do it less and less. 

Back then doing 1 hour on T4 survival was quite an achievement if you weren't sewer camping. Right now a sewer camping team can go to level cap and still fall asleep in the meantime, and any half assed team can easily smash their way through sub 1000 lv enemies, to the point where a random team i put together askong for humorous fella in 5 mins went lv 480 to feel actual pressure. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I joined at around u15, it was when Tubemen of Regor was on consoles, Volt Prime Access was new, and Coptering was still a thing. personally i think the game has gone leaps and bounds ahead of where it was, especially U18, Second Dream was a truly mind-blowing experience for me. all this time later and now we have Open worlds, and more of this universe is being shown to us. I think it's great.

and while the Relic system still has a couple of flaws, people really need to take off the rose-tinted glasses when looking at the Old Void: having to go to rotation C just for a chance at a part was not that fun.

Edited March 13, 2019 by (PS4)robotwars7

[Guest]

If they actually released the U10 client for people to play with, I'm willing to bet the nostalgia/curiosity factor would keep it alive for maybe a week or so before being abandoned.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Guest

[Xzorn]

11 hours ago, taiiat said:

or in short, a game would be a bit of a fool to only support the bottom end or the top end. when... you can do both without doing double the work. idunno i want to play the game a lot, i want to use the Game Mechanics that are really, really different from the rest of the Industry (as always, mainly Parkour - but now that we're making some stuff flow better, all forms of Mobility too - mixing Parkour with Spacekid with Weapons with Abilities for really fast, deep Combat that has me constantly doing things to move faster and perform better in Combat, Et Cetera). just gotta give me stuff to do with those Game Mechanics, and not punish me for using them rather than going mostly AFK in a stationary position and waiting for Timers. because that's just not engaging.

there is bits of content here and there that does that, where what you're supposed to do isn't immune to Game Mechanics (literally one of the most uninteresting things in all of Video Games, when Enemies are immune to the game), allows for a high Skill Ceiling, while still being flexible and letting you goof around some. always on your toes, but not always having to be on the best 'game' of your life.

 

So much, if not everything in that post was right on target with how I feel.

I chose this segment because of the logic this doesn't have to be this way and the result of methods the game has chosen to use.

There are so many things to do in Warframe and yet less reasons to keep doing them. Layers upon layers of different combat tactics and methods (Some admittedly implemented better than others) which the game doesn't incentivize us to use outside specific cases they were added for when they could easily be so much more. The task at hand often feels like an arbitrary timer instead of an objective and the reward for actually layering all those many mechanics together is intrinsic at best.

[taiiat]

49 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

There are so many things to do in Warframe and yet less reasons to keep doing them. Layers upon layers of different combat tactics and methods (Some admittedly implemented better than others) which the game doesn't incentivize us to use outside specific cases they were added for when they could easily be so much more. The task at hand often feels like an arbitrary timer instead of an objective and the reward for actually layering all those many mechanics together is intrinsic at best.

which in 20/20 hindsight, a shorter way to wrap up what i spent too long writing is that the single largest hurdle, is the game rewarding going AFK, and not rewarding (and ergo punishing) high effort/above and beyond.

[Xzorn]

9 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

and while the Relic system still has a couple of flaws, people really need to take off the rose-tinted glasses when looking at the Old Void: having to go to rotation C just for a chance at a part was not that fun.

 

Funny thing is the rotation A, A, B, C system was added later. It was not a part of the original Void loot system

It used to be a free for all loot system with one table so there was no set magic number outside each rotation itself.

DE added that system to dilute the rewards table. Just as they added Tower 4 so they could fill each table with a higher chance of junk.

Not 100% sure when that was... I wana say mid 2014. Like U13 somewhere. This change represented not just rewards of the game but how the player perceives and plays the game. We were now stuck to 20, 40, 60 min sections when before we could do 15 minutes, 35 minutes, whatever. The anticipation of that pinnacle C roll resulting in failure was not a good feeling where as the previous system was more about just playing and getting things as you go.

The Rotation system turned it into a time game.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Xzorn

[Valiant]

Can't remember when my interest started to fade. Was before POE but I do miss the older days where I had them feels... I had the feels when melee 2.0 arrived so it was past then. 

While the void is definitely better now I did enjoy when it was first introduced, grinding for Frost prime etc and exploring the new tileset. 

[(PSN)Onder6099]

18 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

While I think this is intended as sarcasm there is actually something we lost with that change.

Sure limited lives per frame was silly but so is dying without any consequences.

Unless you're an Endurance runner dying means nothing in Warframe. Even if you fail a Mission you get set back a whole 5 minutes.

They tried to make dying matter again with Arbitrations but let us use Ancient Healers so you'll die of old age first. Defeats the whole point.

No, i’m serious. Most of players those days played more carefully and responsibly because if their fail it will trigger chain reaction caused mission fail thanks to synergy between Frames. They have not only 1 min/max Frame but another 2-3 well know their mechanics because in those days Endurance runs were almost all T missions and everyone tried to their best, and will not be recruited without specific Frame, to dig from 1 key maximum. There wasn’t place for AFK and their opponents because everyone was focused on gameplay. How many players these days will be able to rerun PT Phase 4 with this condition?

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

No, i’m serious. Most of players those days played more carefully and responsibly because if their fail it will trigger chain reaction caused mission fail thanks to synergy between Frames. They have not only 1 min/max Frame but another 2-3 well know their mechanics because in those days Endurance runs were almost all T missions and everyone tried to their best, and will not be recruited without specific Frame, to dig from 1 key maximum. There wasn’t place for AFK and their opponents because everyone was focused on gameplay. How many players these days will be able to rerun PT Phase 4 with this condition?

 

Oh, that's an incredibly rare opinion. I totally thought it was sarcasm. It's an opinion I share to an extend for similar reasons.

Dying means almost nothing in Warframe and that shouldn't be the case in any video game.

AFK problems is a symptom that hadden't occurred to me as a result of that change. I wonder how much an impact that truly had.

[justin0620]

20 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

How do you say that nothings wrong with new things to discover, yet say it scares away new players? 

Well, I don't think you understand the difference between complexity and diversity.

 

20 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

This game has always needed a wiki to go in depth, but the core gameplay is pretty straightforward. 

I also wanted a new player to explain how to mod a warframe or a weapon to me if you say it is straightforward.

 

21 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Also...Warframe most likely attracts and caters to the kind of player that doesn't need hand holding to appreciate a game. 

There are so many stories out there which is "if my boyfriend wasn't explaining everything to me I think I already quit this game." Without understanding the mechanics of this game you can probably just gonna play through maybe 3-5 planets.

[peterc3]

18 hours ago, taiiat said:

acknowledging(rather than basically punishing) Endurance or extended Gameplay with Scaling rewards that makes it preferable to play longer, but not making short play segments dramatically less profitable.

• if Players say they don't want to feel like they have to play for hours at a time to make progression somewhat efficiently - why doesn't this apply in the reverse direction? the bloody hell do i want Loading Screens the game. why can't everything be an option. why is it only one extreme or the other.

It wouldn't make it "preferable" to play long, it would become required.

One extreme doesn't find the least effort possible to sit in the same mission for hours and make it literally impossible to create content that would deplete their stockpiles or challenge them. Any efforts to modify their behavior by changing how their equipment works, changes that affect nobody outside that endurance bubble, are seen as personal attacks against people having fun.

One extreme doesn't chew through content and demand more.

One extreme cannot be placated and so they are ignored. How is this a hard concept to get? The RoI for that group is probably nothing. The same group is also the ones who are interested in trading. It would not shock me if they were a net negative on the balance.

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

It wouldn't make it "preferable" to play long, it would become required.

One extreme doesn't find the least effort possible to sit in the same mission for hours and make it literally impossible to create content that would deplete their stockpiles or challenge them. Any efforts to modify their behavior by changing how their equipment works, changes that affect nobody outside that endurance bubble, are seen as personal attacks against people having fun.

One extreme doesn't chew through content and demand more.

One extreme cannot be placated and so they are ignored. How is this a hard concept to get? The RoI for that group is probably nothing. The same group is also the ones who are interested in trading. It would not shock me if they were a net negative on the balance.

what?

the hardcore extreme end just want content to play the game.
it's funny that you say the low extreme end doesn't 'chew through content' - those Players do as little as is possibly required to get their stuff. and if they don't like what the minimum bar is, they complain that it wasn't handed to them for free.
they are the ones that say that __ Warframe Abilities that Kill Enemies while they AFK are 'mandatory'. they are the ones that say Chroma is 'mandatory' when you're trying to deal Damage to things with more than Trash Unit Levels of Health. they are the ones that....instantly blame the game anytime 'you win' doesn't appear on the screen regardless of how they play.

are you sure you're talking about the same things i am?
the fact that you say that having Rewards that acknowledge Players NOT spending as much time as possible in Loading Screens makes playing infinite length Missions forever is exactly the sort of thing i was talking about. where the Skill Floor and Skill Ceiling NOT being exactly the same height is rejected with extreme hostility.

 

but i guess.... what is considered to be higher Difficulty having Rewards to coincide... is an unwanted and avoided thing in Video Games. that's why you never see that in Video Games, right?

Edited March 14, 2019 by taiiat

[Xzorn]

Diminishing Returns has been an effective element in satisfying a wide spectrum of play styles.

Warframe just stops and replaces this "soft cap" concept with continued repetitive actions until the player simply gets bored. It dodges difficulty with immunity phases allowing enemies to essentially ignore the rules of the game when it could just simply punish the wrong actions. I do Elemental Resistance Sorties with pure elemental weapons often and that shouldn't be a thing. Much like I mentioned in my OP. You can do everything wrong and still succeed.

Some players make mistakes. Some hardly ever do. Why can't we facilitate both types of players and all those in between? I don't understand why a game that can be played in so many ways with so much combat depth chooses to bottleneck it's players into specific repetitive loops with rewards as the bait instead of genuine interest. Something for everyone I say. It's what's kept this game great over the years. If I had to use Operator abilities, Arcanes or frame powers to overcome a limitation like Elemental Resistance while using an Elemental weapon that's great but I don't and there's no reason for me to. I just win even when I know I'm doing it wrong and that just feels awful.

[SilentMobius]

On 2019-03-13 at 7:05 AM, xveganrox said:

What actually happened: Everyone was permanently invincible and stood in place for an hour shooting Acrid into a Vortex until they rage quit after 3 consecutive fusion core packs in a row.

All of this it true to warframe's truest self, of course I avoided the majority of it because it wasn't in any way fun, I did it slowly and solo.

On 2019-03-13 at 7:05 AM, xveganrox said:

PS please bring back trials

PS please don't reintroduce any forced teaming content. Getting rid of the trials was one of the best hard decisions that DE made, they were a toxic mess and that is inherent to any forced teaming content.

[Kontrollo]

8 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

PS please don't reintroduce any forced teaming content. Getting rid of the trials was one of the best hard decisions that DE made, they were a toxic mess and that is inherent to any forced teaming content.

They were content for people who liked it, just as doing things solo is content for you, because you like it. You deal with toxic people like anywhere else: mute/ignore and/or report.

I probably don't need to remind you that the primary focus of this game is squads of up to four, or why else would it be online only in the first place?

It was definitely not one of the "best hard decisions", let people play what they like.

[TheGrimCorsair]

The new Warframe is just the same as the old Warframe and most of the folks who're nostalgic for the old Warframe can't really see they'll never get it back 'cause you can't go home again. Always ran into the same strategies in pub play you do now with room/wave/afk nukers everywhere, the only thing that's changed is the name of the powers and a few visual effects. The whole "A warframe's powers are meant to supplement its weapon-play" died on the vine with Mesa's launch, and isn't coming back because when those offensive powers didn't do much damage, you had CC frames that were just as devastating. Kill whole fields of enemies with AoE powers in two seconds or kill room fulls of lobotmized enemies in 5-10 seconds.

One day the OP's gonna roll out of bed, look around, and have the epiphany that they aren't Warframe's targeted demographic now, and haven't been for a very long time, and likely never were.

[SilentMobius]

10 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

They were content for people who liked it, just as doing things solo is content for you,

Solo content scales up to four or more if DE want it to, It's content for all of us

Forced teaming content doesn't scale down hence the "forced" part, it's locking out solo players for no good reason and encourages toxic social games because it's forcing you to take other warm bodies. If it scaled down to solo, then everyone who found it more fun to team could do so.

There is no parity to the two situations you describe.

[Kontrollo]

2 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

Solo content scales up to four or more if DE want it to, It's content for all of us

Forced teaming content doesn't scale down hence the "forced" part, it's locking out solo players for no good reason and encourages toxic social games because it's forcing you to take other warm bodies. If it scaled down to solo, then everyone who found it more fun to team could do so.

There is no parity to the two situations you describe.

Good job sidestepping most of what I've written.

I'm going to try this again from a different angle. There are things in this game that aren't available when playing solo. The simplest example is probably the getting downed & revive mechanic. It doesn't make sense to have it in solo gameplay, but it arguably allows for an interesting interaction. Which some people enjoy, I might add.

So let me ask you instead: Do you think everything should be soloable, and why exactly do you think that? It is a team game at its core after all, no? Should things that require two or more people simply not be in the game? Or where do you draw the line?

Edited March 15, 2019 by Kontrollo
typo

[xveganrox]

3 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

Solo content scales up to four or more if DE want it to, It's content for all of us

Forced teaming content doesn't scale down hence the "forced" part, it's locking out solo players for no good reason and encourages toxic social games because it's forcing you to take other warm bodies. If it scaled down to solo, then everyone who found it more fun to team could do so.

There is no parity to the two situations you describe.

They weren’t forced though... Eidolon captures are *much* more important to key game systems than raids ever were, there were no trial faction gates or frames/weapons that required trial completions, just a handful of arcanes with mostly minimal game impact and some extra resources and credits.

 

Waframe *isn’t* a solo game and it never has been. You can certainly play it solo, but it’s an online game that’s clearly designed for group play. You join public games by default. You farm more efficiently in groups. Bosses, sorties, and kill squads are made with to groups in mind. You can hunt vomalysts for two weeks to build 1111 amp and then slowly kill a Teralyst solo if you want, but you can take down multiple a night with Mote Amps working in a team. That isn’t “locking out” solo players, solo players are locking themselves out. If you choose never to build an Archwing, you can’t really complain that DE is locking you out of killing Atlas.

[SilentMobius]

26 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

So let me ask you instead: Do you think everything should be soloable, and why exactly do you think that? It is a team game at its core after all, no?

Because I founded a game that was 100% solable, and at no point then was it suggested that this would change.

26 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Should things that require two or more people simply not be in the game? 

They should not be in the game, at all. everything scales, failure to scale, is just dead, wasted content.

 

So no, I don't believe this is a team game at it's core, and I'll fight, with my money and with my words to ensure that in the inherently toxic mechanic of forced teaming is reduced to zero in this game. You want to team up and fight a scaled up version of a fight with additional button nonsense for more and/or quicker rewards? Knock yourself out, you do you. But the second that becomes reqirement to do the content or has unique rewards, I shall scream blue murder until it changes, withhold purchases and generally make it clear it's unacceptable.

Because there are a lot more people playing this game solo than you think and none of them deserve to be locked out of content.

Edited March 15, 2019 by SilentMobius