Melee 3.0 would be catastrophic to the game

[peterc3]

1 minute ago, Arocken said:

There was nothing wrong with melee 2.0 in any way in my and many others opinion.

The developers and many players disagree with this. To the point the devs are replacing it. They don't do this type of thing purely for the fun of it.

2 minutes ago, Arocken said:

And no, it's not being resistant to changes, it's being smart enough to know when you have made something perfectly and don't need to "fix"  it.

Melee 2.0 is perfect?

3 minutes ago, Arocken said:

They either need to really resolve these with 3.0 or they are going to lose a lot of veteran players like myself.

If your view is that the Melee system was perfect, you are an acceptable loss, in my mind.

[simplygnome]

14 minutes ago, Arocken said:

Dude, I don't know what you are smoking but I would 100% bet that your primary damage output is from a gun.  Mine is quick melee and I would bet that Fydro56's is also quick melee.  There are multiple threads of a lot of other predominantly quick melee players that are HIGHLY dissatisfied with the new changes because it removes a lot of control from the player for melee users.  There was nothing wrong with melee 2.0 in any way in my and many others opinion.  And there is so much broken in combat now it's not playable for me.  And no, it's not being resistant to changes, it's being smart enough to know when you have made something perfectly and don't need to "fix"  it.  It wasn't broken before but it most certainly is now.  They should have spent their time creating new enemies, tilesets, levels, etc. instead of reworking what was nearly perfect before.   

They can continue to do what they want with their game.  But I agree with Fydro56 and I personally feel that they have broken what they had perfectly mastered.  It's made the game unplayable for me and I will miss it because Warframe was a truly great game.  At this point the ball is in DE's court.  They either need to really resolve these with 3.0 or they are going to lose a lot of veteran players like myself.

Melee 2.0 was a buggy mess of bad and useless combos.

To change that and make things more fluid, they are changing it in pieces. 

With the end goal theyve described, I only see benefit.

Edit: I miss quick melee on some weapons, and on some other weapons its now better. However, Im awaiting the combo changes and stance combo changes which will HOPEFULLY finally give us choices and real differences between styles.

Edited March 14, 2019 by simplygnome

[Arocken]

Why don't you go read the 150+ other comments about how this broke more than it fixed and it makes alot of people not want to play anymore either.  Some of those posts give great details of what is currently broken and how the removal and changing of many things have made the game worse in their opinion also.  If DE wants to lose me and many others, that is their choice.

[Arocken]

Just now, simplygnome said:

Melee 2.0 was a buggy mess of bad and useless combos.

To change that and make things more fluid, they are changing it in pieces. 

With the end goal theyve described, I only see benefit.

Full melee was a problem.  That's why so few used it.  I'm talking quick melee, which doesn't exist anymore.  

[simplygnome]

Just now, Arocken said:

Full melee was a problem.  That's why so few used it.  I'm talking quick melee, which doesn't exist anymore.  

Edit on my previous post that finished after you responded:

 I miss quick melee on some weapons, and on some other weapons its now better. However, Im awaiting the combo changes and stance combo changes which will HOPEFULLY finally give us choices and real differences between styles.

[simplygnome]

1 minute ago, Arocken said:

Full melee was a problem.  That's why so few used it.  I'm talking quick melee, which doesn't exist anymore.  

And hopefully, as they roll things out, full melee will be changed to be a functional system, and will be integrated smoother and easier.

It IS rough right now, but I definitely like their end goals, and I can see where its going.

[CreamedSoda]

25 minutes ago, Arocken said:

Dude, I don't know what you are smoking but I would 100% bet that your primary damage output is from a gun.  Mine is quick melee and I would bet that Fydro56's is also quick melee.  There are multiple threads of a lot of other predominantly quick melee players that are HIGHLY dissatisfied with the new changes because it removes a lot of control from the player for melee users.  There was nothing wrong with melee 2.0 in any way in my and many others opinion.  And there is so much broken in combat now it's not playable for me.  And no, it's not being resistant to changes, it's being smart enough to know when you have made something perfectly and don't need to "fix"  it.  It wasn't broken before but it most certainly is now.  They should have spent their time creating new enemies, tilesets, levels, etc. instead of reworking what was nearly perfect before.   

They can continue to do what they want with their game.  But I agree with Fydro56 and I personally feel that they have broken what they had perfectly mastered.  It's made the game unplayable for me and I will miss it because Warframe was a truly great game.  At this point the ball is in DE's court.  They either need to really resolve these with 3.0 or they are going to lose a lot of veteran players like myself.

🦀 Melee is gone 🦀 Macro sliders are gone 🦀

[SilviaS12]

48 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

The developers and many players disagree with this. To the point the devs are replacing it. They don't do this type of thing purely for the fun of it.

Melee 2.0 is perfect?

If your view is that the Melee system was perfect, you are an acceptable loss, in my mind.

Have you no remorse? you've truly gone back to your old ways? I thought you were becoming reasonable. He is NOT an acceptable loss and HE IS ENTITLED TO HIS VIEW. I think exclusive melee is better and he does not, am I going to tell him he is a LOSS? the truth and fact is, this new system is FAR from perfect, the system before may as well be perfect to what we have now. Yes I agree we have to use it with it's flaws to make it become perfect again, but so far many have been using it and apart from the bugs and glitches the system itself is changing what the game was totally and not for better, it is trying to become a nier automata, a devil may cry, a play them once and good riddance and goodbye.

[SilviaS12]

41 minutes ago, Arocken said:

Full melee was a problem.  That's why so few used it.  I'm talking quick melee, which doesn't exist anymore.  

well as it is, melee doesn't truly exist currently apart from being a side kick to guns, I miss my full melee exclusive selection as that was my preference most of the time, I never had any issues with the full melee before but it certainly is full of issues now when you equip melee only. 

[541K4T]

As a MR26 with 1.7k hrs in game, more than half of my total kills came from melee. I had absolutely no problem with M2.0 except the long switching animation. And I used full melee most of the time. But the new system pretty much feels like it was put into consideration without any input from actual melee enthusiasts. That's why people like me having the biggest problem of adjusting to the new system. Also as Combos that utilized Block are currently non-functional, adding more woes to the melee players like me. Because you tend to click RMB out of habit and end up breaking the immersion. And there are many good combos that used to rely on block mechanics.

[Arocken]

1 hour ago, simplygnome said:

And hopefully, as they roll things out, full melee will be changed to be a functional system, and will be integrated smoother and easier.

It IS rough right now, but I definitely like their end goals, and I can see where its going.

I'm not sure how.  It seems like their trying to remake the wheel.  I absolutely hate the missing weapon change animations, the auto-blocking, the missing wall latch and melee aim-glide block, and more.  I don't know where they are going with 3.0, but removing functions and "consolidating" things makes it seem like they are catering to lazy players who want the game to play for them.  I'll wait and see for sure once they implement it.  Quite frankly, I'm not sure why they decided to do it in stages.  Does anyone know why they did it like this instead of just landing the whole thing intact so we really know what we are going to get?  Or did they do it in stages like this to see what kind of early feedback they would get?  

[Gurpgork]

1 hour ago, Arocken said:

There was nothing wrong with melee 2.0 in any way in my and many others opinion.

If you were using quick melee and ignoring stances, and see using the stances as such a large downgrade to your playstyle that the game may now be unplayable for you, then I'd say that's fairly definitive proof that all was not well with the melee system. The main things that melee 2.0 added were dedicated melee mode and stances. A system feeling good to use only when you ignore more than half of its functions is not a sign of a system that is perfect and needs no changes. 

The real problem at hand is that stances restrict your movement and cause animation locks, and that is a problem that has been in the game for years. It's just a problem that didn't really affect you, and now it's been dragged up to the surface for all to see. 

The good news is that fluidity and freedom of movement is exactly the direction they're going to go with the stance rework, so that's going to get much better further down the road. 

[-AiLuoLi-]

8 hours ago, Fydro56 said:

DE should avoid drastic alterations such as melee 3.0 that take away so many core elements of a system so deeply intertwined with the mechanics and functionality and enjoyment of Warframe.

Looks like someone weren't around during mod 1.0, parkour 1.0, damage 1.0, melee 1.0, coptering, etc. 

Warframe is in beta and DE has made several drastic changes in the past. Nothing is stopping them from doing it again.

[DeMonkey]

4 hours ago, Arocken said:

Dude, I don't know what you are smoking but I would 100% bet that your primary damage output is from a gun.  Mine is quick melee and I would bet that Fydro56's is also quick melee. 

 

4 hours ago, Arocken said:

melee users

Not sure you can class yourself a melee user if all you ever did was quick melee, same thing for those who spam slide attacks all day.

[CxLL]

@Fydro56 have you forgotten to add "in my opinion" somewhere in there or... are you perhaps... the prophet we've all been waiting for?
Goodness gracious! Do you do 1 on 1 healing sessions too? My cat has an ear that keeps leaking. Tell me when you're available!

[Commander_Crash_29a]

I feel like this is the result of ppl complaining about how its "too hard" to do melee on a joypad. They have made limitations to a game on PC. This may work for a PS4 or switch but PC users have the keys to support blocking and channeling. In addition I cant have no gear items because if I use a gear item then try to use right click that gear item will be triggered. Sure it has bugs and yes DE may fix it and one more thing put a ticket in etc etc etc.... SilviaS12 is correct a Legacy option would have been a smart move and as a programmer this would not effect others from trying a new ver. of the melee out its what we call in the business a BETA.

[krc473]

Just now, Commander_Crash_29a said:

PC users have the keys to support blocking and channeling.

I use a XB1 controller. This has never been an issue. The old system worked perfectly fine for me.

[-NightmareMoon-]

10 hours ago, Fydro56 said:

First and foremost it should be said that the countless fixes and updates that are continuously being introduced to the game are greatly appreciated and speak volumes about DE's dedication to make more enjoyable the passion project that is Warframe. However, while these updates are usually positive for the game, the developers should be careful of changes that completely overhaul core aspects of the game which could be earth shatteringly negative; DE should avoid the changes of Melee 3.0.

Firstly, the update removed melee swapping from the dedicated weapon swap button in addition to their animations. Players now have to press the quick melee button to swap to melee and aim/shoot to swap to firearms, and swapped weapons, without any animation, appear out of thin air. This should be avoided; if players want only to swap between melee/firearm, they need to quick melee/shoot, which breaks immersion and fluidity during gameplay, unlike with a simple press of a dedicated button. If the fluidity of weapon swapping is a concern, a simple tweak to swap animation speed would be enough.

Additionally, with the new swapping mechanic, because channeling and blocking shared the same buttons as aim and shoot respectively, players can no longer channel or block manually. With this change, unique enemy knockdown mechanics like snatching and eximus' flaming area of effect abilities that necessitate active engagement through manual blocking would be made obsolete. With this change, countless channeling mods would be made obsolete and melee builds that rely on them would be ruined; several stance mod combos and and their animations would be removed. With this change, the unique dynamic of channel blocking that allowed for enhanced deflection of damage would cease to exist.

While it may be argued that there are aspects of the melee system in need of improvement, a change of such magnitude that affects so many other elements of the game would not be necessary. While it could be argued that some current mechanics are niche and irrelevant, this is purely subjective. It should be emphatically noted that options are important in any game; players who don't care for them don't have to worry about them, and those who do can enjoy them. DE should not restrict options, especially when they already have been available to the players whose satisfaction dictates the success of their game (as for the case with any game).

Ultimately, this update removes complexity and functionality, resulting in a devolution of melee and a less fleshed out system; DE should avoid drastic alterations such as melee 3.0 that take away so many core elements of a system so deeply intertwined with the mechanics and functionality and enjoyment of Warframe.

 

don't you love when people don't even the the balls to post on their main account when they are about to post something this dump? yeah me neither, I came just to leave a HAHAHAHA, this is not even worth arguing.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

20 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

 

Not sure you can class yourself a melee user if all you ever did was quick melee, same thing for those who spam slide attacks all day.

ah, but there is no more technical, more fluid, more difficult to master stance than the wild flailing motions of BullSh1t0! I guarantee if you went to a dojo where the Tenno train, you'd see a line of them doing different movements with different melee types, and then one guy doing this:

jokes aside, I'd wait until all of the reworks are out to see how it ties together. individually these changes may not seem to stand up on their own, but with further tweaking, the system can work. the end product is most important here.

Edited March 14, 2019 by (PS4)robotwars7

[SilviaS12]

1 hour ago, -AiLuoLi- said:

Looks like someone weren't around during mod 1.0, parkour 1.0, damage 1.0, melee 1.0, coptering, etc. 

Warframe is in beta and DE has made several drastic changes in the past. Nothing is stopping them from doing it again.

until WF shoots itself in its own foot forgetting it is Warframe and not nier automata or dmc and then they can't do it again even if they wanted to when it kills the game from long term boredom after short bursts of fun

[Commander_Crash_29a]

1 minute ago, krc473 said:

I use a XB1 controller. This has never been an issue. The old system worked perfectly fine for me.

Glade to here. I never said that the old system was not meant for controller base users. just saying is that they got rid of manual blocking and made it automatic something that someone may do if you do not have enough buttons to support it. I would not know personally only time I use a joy pad is when I use to play retro games on MAME. It would be more of a uproar if they re-mapped the "w" "s" "a" and "d" key to the arrow buttons. But some will say that its grate. I said my opinion no one should take offense to it.

[SilviaS12]

5 minutes ago, -NightmareMoon- said:

 

don't you love when people don't even the the balls to post on their main account when they are about to post something this dump? yeah me neither, I came just to leave a HAHAHAHA, this is not even worth arguing.

why did you even comment in the first place? what's wrong with a player and their opinion? not to mention a lot of players never joined the forums until after the update on March 7th and more is on their way.

[SilviaS12]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

ah, but there is no more technical, more fluid, more difficult to master stance than the wild flailing motions of BullS#&$o! I guarantee if you went to a dojo where the Tenno trian, you'd see a line of them doing different movements with different melee types, and then one guy doing this:

jokes aside, I'd wait until all of the reworks are out to see how it ties together. individually these changes may not seem to stand up on their own, but with further tweaking, the system can work. the end product is most important here.

so far, if you can't have your guns with you blades, and still get to block glide while still having guns equipped, there is not even a beginning, it wasn't even made, no expectations for an "end product"

[Veridian]

Why do people defend a system, which split the community into melee oriented, who've never fired a shot and those who didn't know anything but the quick attack exists?

[Sebastianx]

Every time I read a new post about the new melee system, I drop 1 IQ point. Why do some people not realize this is a direct melee buff in any possible way? The only downside is that you can't charge attack if being shot at and that miner tool stops scanning if you melee, both of which will most likely be fixed in the next hotfix.