Melee 3.0 would be catastrophic to the game

[OniDax]

7 hours ago, IntheCoconut said:

When others have said they enjoy the new melee system, and they go into great detail about why they like it (as I've stated for me, it provides more flexibility and options and makes guns more appealing when before they felt clumsy to use and less viable as an addition to my overall kit), your counter argument is that those players must not be dedicated enough to melee because they want to include range into their playstyle. Somehow you've come to the rationalization that if anyone disagrees with you and somehow actually likes the new melee overhaul, that those players just weren't true melee players:

And yet when people try to provide solutions, such as doing exactly what you describe and playing exclusively 100% melee only by unequipping primary and secondary guns, you say this:

I understand that something being buggy or glitchy is going to lessen anyone's enjoyment. That is a completely valid point, but lets not forget that melee 2.9 came out only 8 days ago so its understandable that there will be some kinks to fix. But what I'm having trouble understanding is that you cast doubt on people and label them as not "truly dedicated" to melee because they want to be able to use guns, and yet when offered a solution to play the way you want without guns, you argue that it isn't a solution to your dilemma because now you can't use guns? What? I'm just trying to understand your problem better.

I'm not trying to be facetious here and I apologize if that is how I'm coming across, I'm just genuinely trying to comprehend your stance. Not enjoying 100% melee with the new system because it has bugs is understandable, but I'm getting confused because you don't think playing 100% melee is a solution because you can't bring guns, but you then turn around and tell players they aren't hard-core enough because they equip ranged weapons? Do you or do you not want to use guns?

In either case, I think you are right. I just don't understand your argument, and therefore I don't have a solution. Hopefully DE will find one for you as they continue to evolve this 8-day-old system, work out the existing bugs, and turn it into something that you enjoy better as we slowly progress into melee 3.0 where they introduce reworked combos and the overhauled channeling system.

 

You literally said your favorite play style is to aim glide, shoot with a gun, and then switch to your melee. That is not what anyone here means when they talk about dedicated melee. That's not what Steve meant by dedicated melee. Dedicated melee means you do everything with your melee, and if you use guns, it's a last resort sort of thing (like if you're downed) or only something you use for very specific situations. But you spend your normal gameplay using only melee weapons. There is no room for you to be a dedicated melee player and favor a play style that involves guns, because, quite literally, that is not dedicated melee. This has nothing to do with you disagreeing with me. It's simply a fact that your favorite play style is not dedicated melee.

 

Now, that aside, understand that in Melee 2.0, we didn't have to unequip primary and secondary weapons to block glide or wall latch or manually block. In this new system, we do. So we are objectively losing melee functionality and are forced to unequip all other weapons. That means that if we are downed by enemies, we can no longer shoot them. Do you now understand how dedicated melee players play the game? This is why I said you aren't a dedicated melee player. Your favorite play style is not dedicated melee, and you don't understand why the dedicated melee player would still want guns equipped. Hopefully this explains it to you.

 

Last, I never said anything about dedicated melee players being hardcore. Never. I have not once suggested that dedicated melee players were somehow better or superior to gun players and hybrid (gun+melee) players. It's just that some of us prefer to spend 99% of our play time using melee weapons for everything, and only use guns in the situations where we absolutely need to (like being downed).

 

The solution is to allow us to bind melee block to a key of our choice and to allow us access to it even when having guns equipped, even if it means we are choosing to bind it to right mouse (therefore binding gun aim to another key). With the option to choose our binds, we can determine how we want the melee system to work. Removing our ability to bind the key (and to therefore have melee block in all situations), DE is trying to force all players to use the new system if they have any guns equipped. Giving us back our ability to bind our own keys for block would solve the problem.

Edited March 15, 2019 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[541K4T]

4 hours ago, Valiant said:

So what's the problem, lack of the block button? 

All I've seen it do is just allow quick melee to be even more effective/interesting due to full on combos being enabled from the get go. 

 

I didn't try the system on the first day as I was away but when I came back I didn't really have that much of an issue and easily adapted. It seems more streamlined. Just have to get used to the lack of a block button. 

Yes, for my playstyle lack of a dedicated block button is a complete turn off. I used to do Full Melee not quick melee( also no spin-2-win play) as I have mentioned. And almost all good stances across the melee spectrum has combos that requires you to block. So, unless DE comes with some tweaks to address those issues with their final version of m3.0, at this stage it feels horrible to me.

[CaptainMinty]

1 hour ago, SilviaS12 said:

rolling is just another way, whatever the case the player should have the choice to roll, block glide or aim glide, not how you say is best but how the player sees fit.

And most players were incredibly upset when coptering was removed too. Point is, everyone abhors change, yet want it, making a strange limbo of wanting something different then yelling about it when it happens. Example being I saw a thread complaining about individual extract on survivals, after it's been asked for for years.

54 minutes ago, SilviaS12 said:

as if rolling is the only and best way because he says so and his explanation is all reason for block glide to be removed.

I highlighted several options, rolling being the prime example as it offers the same benefits as blockgliding. And at no point I agreed with blockgliding being removed. Is it a shame? Yes. Little bit of style lost. Is it reason to cry that this entire new system fails? No. If anything this negative is shining so brightly because human nature will always remember the negative more than the positive.

Instead of whinging about how blockgliding is gone, and crying that the whole system is utterly broken, instead actually provide thoughtful feedback. Why not give a toggleable option to make blocking automatic, or based on a key press? Or perhaps hybridize the key press so it allows manual blocking while autoblock is enabled, allowing for blockgliding?  Think about improving what is, not regressing back to a system that alienated both modes from each other. Melee and guns were on two sides of the room. They didn't get along. They hated each other because the other invaded and interfered with the other. Now they coexist, and as always with change, a few things need to be fixed. 

[SilviaS12]

34 minutes ago, CaptainMinty said:

And most players were incredibly upset when coptering was removed too. Point is, everyone abhors change, yet want it, making a strange limbo of wanting something different then yelling about it when it happens. Example being I saw a thread complaining about individual extract on survivals, after it's been asked for for years.

I highlighted several options, rolling being the prime example as it offers the same benefits as blockgliding. And at no point I agreed with blockgliding being removed. Is it a shame? Yes. Little bit of style lost. Is it reason to cry that this entire new system fails? No. If anything this negative is shining so brightly because human nature will always remember the negative more than the positive.

Instead of whinging about how blockgliding is gone, and crying that the whole system is utterly broken, instead actually provide thoughtful feedback. Why not give a toggleable option to make blocking automatic, or based on a key press? Or perhaps hybridize the key press so it allows manual blocking while autoblock is enabled, allowing for blockgliding?  Think about improving what is, not regressing back to a system that alienated both modes from each other. Melee and guns were on two sides of the room. They didn't get along. They hated each other because the other invaded and interfered with the other. Now they coexist, and as always with change, a few things need to be fixed. 

you're not the first and not the only to have suggested a solution. it shines brightly not because of human nature, but it was truly a blunder, most of the people who are complaining are just starting to use the forums because of this blunder, for years they have been just to themselves enjoying the game, until this blunder than shined so bright, please there are so much positive feedback with solutions that point blank address all the areas severely broken, get your head out the earth you're not an ostrich MOA

[Ofeban]

4 hours ago, CaptainMinty said:

I literally gave the answer to closing the gap. Rolling. Rolling gives damage resist similar to blocking, and closes the gap better than blockgliding ever has. Not to mention directional ground slams give another new gap closer. 

And for starters, don't assume another's playstyle. I have preferred melee as well. Nothing beats smashing skulls in with a fiery mace imo. There's plenty of ways to close that gap between the enemy and the player. If anything with the removal of blockglide, it encourages players to roll more often, which is something they should do. Rolling provides a significant bonus of not only resisting a massive chunk of damage, but as well as repositioning in a much quicker fashion. 

Rolling is super important, but it's not a replacement for block-glide. They enhance one another. You can roll mid-air with aimglide/blockglide held, and it maintains your height through the roll, rather than you dropping out of the air. The same can be said for side rolls and backflip rolls, used in tandem with RMB gives you amazing control and mobility.

Blockglide is about far more than blocking damage or activating certain combos. It's about moving properly, with all advanced technique at your disposal, without deciding for you which weapon is drawn. I don't want my gun to come out literally every time I decide to move quickly, I want to stay ready with whatever weapon I've chosen.

Edit: Constantly having to hit my melee button, which can't be LMB(unless I never want to use guns again) is too tedious considering how often I use melee. RMB is completely integral for any advanced movement. So you can see the dis synergy. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Ofeban

[Valiant]

3 hours ago, 541K4T said:

Yes, for my playstyle lack of a dedicated block button is a complete turn off. I used to do Full Melee not quick melee( also no spin-2-win play) as I have mentioned. And almost all good stances across the melee spectrum has combos that requires you to block. So, unless DE comes with some tweaks to address those issues with their final version of m3.0, at this stage it feels horrible to me.

Fair enough. I did find it odd myself that they went for autoblocking. 

If that's the common complaint it should be easily adjustable opposed to the whole system being reverted as to be honest, apart from that, it works well.

[mastermaniac]

I'm a melee guy. I really, really liked the melee combat. Guns were a very secondary thing for me. I'd run with melee equipped almost constantly, so you'd think I'd like a melee-focused overhaul. Right?

Lemme put it this way: I despise Melee 3.0 in its entirety, and it was literally enough to kill all remaining interest I had in the game. Precision is a thing of the past, and control has been taken out of my hands. Manual blocking is gone - it instantly results in me switching to a stupid gun instead. No more parries, as a result. Those were fun to do. Even if something is very marginal, even if a feature is very rarely invoked, its presence means the player has yet one more option, one more technique in their arsenal. Removing options means removing possibilities, which effectively means removing things for the player to do.

And what's there to do now? W + LMB, occasionally mash Quick Melee to become a DPS-pulsing bubble, and pressing 1, 2, 3, or 4 where appropriate. The game is no longer about being some sort of so-called "space ninja." They've ditched that in favor of "space MOBA." You're basically encouraged to spam nova-like ground-pounds all day long.

I have *no* idea why some of these tweaks weren't made player-optional. I mean, sure, you want to remove gun-equipped quick attacks, that's fine. Sure. It's your game, so whatever. Even if it does mean further shrinking players' arsenal of attacks and restricting our options, that's all you. But *why* enforce autoblocking? Why make switching to melee so cludgy? Why force player/game interface changes like that?

And give me spin-to-win any day. I didn't partake in it, because I enjoyed precise, swordsman-like solo play, but when I did play with others, I'd rather watch them spin attack constantly because it at least looked cool. Now people ground-pound over and over and over again, which looks dumber by orders of magnitude.

I'm out. It was fun.

Melee and guns were on two sides of the room. They didn't get along. They hated each other because the other invaded and interfered with the other. Now they coexist, and as always with change, a few things need to be fixed.

I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. It's just blatantly false. There was absolutely no issue with using firearms, melee weapons, or both in synergy *at all.* This is a manufactured problem. I've been playing this game for *years,* since it was a barely-playable, truly awful beta. I've played through the golden age period, where the game blossomed and matured wonderfully. And I've played through this latest era, which has been full of silly, unwanted and unneeded tweaks made to solve manufactured "problems, and what you're talking about here is just another one of those fake issues.

There was no "divide." Guns and melee did not "conflict." Quick melee was more than sufficient when running and gunning, and if you wanted more depth and control for your strikes, full-melee mode gave you that. It made two styles each feel distinctive, and gave the player more options. Now most of our options have been removed, and the game is rolling back the amount of precision needed to excel, one mechanic after another. First, it was the deluge of firearms which required little to no actual aiming. Now, it's the removal of timing and precision for melee striking, so that melee "combat" is DPS bubbles and ground-pounds. The game is more about numbers and status effects than timing and execution, and the changes here are absolutely made to further facilitate MOBA-style gameplay. It has nothing to do with any supposed "conflict" between melee and guns. There wasn't one.

Edited April 13, 2019 by mastermaniac