Buried Debts: Update 24.5.0

[crdf]

Exploiter orb bugs:

 

1. I keep getting a "Get to the objective: 0 players waiting for you"  during phase 2.

2. Reward does not show up in reward screen. I need to check in my inventory. That happens a 100% of time. I know other people that get that issue as well

3. After exiting the cave from phase 1 in the fight my loc-pin locations are gone.

4. Also, not sure if this is intentional, but the orb can kill valk while in god mode.

[dany2945]

I hope you are not thinking to nerf mesa+arcane...by the way, when you think about nerfing something i hope the thought of broken enemies scaling and useless weapons crosses your mind even if you are not willing to fix anything about armor and scaling now some changes need to be made, you can't keep adding content and new updates if the old ones are all broken and the foundation is broken as well

[MalloryHeart]

Hildryn cant dash in the air after using dash during her 4 in this update i hope this gets fixed soon. Also the mining laser freezes for me sometimes and becomes unusable for the whole mission. But other than that this update is fire 

[MBaldelli]

21 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Next steps:
While players have restored functionality now (i.e Mesa + Arcane Velocity), it won't be a true solution if you don't know the dev teams intention. We unintentionally broke some arcane interactions and let it ride when we shouldn't have. We're fixing that today! We do think there are some balance issues remaining but it is not our intention to use side-effects to solve. 

Balance is a conversation that we constantly have, and we see you having as well. For some people the answer is don't nerf things, buff everything else. This is the path of least resistance for us, as most of the player base is happy when we buff, and angry when we nerf. However this has a few side effects that impact the game as a whole. First, with more damage, the time to kill on enemies is lowered and the value of Crowd Control declines even more (Vauban?!). Higher max damage also means that players with the latest bells and whistles can easily kill bosses in an instant, and overcome any challenge with ease. The more your play, the easier the game gets!

So far we have been kicking the can down the road, accepting power creep and its consequences on the game - and often this game is a 'kill all the things' based game. We've mostly done nerfs on things that could be automated, required no player interaction or removed options from the game by making all other choices bad. We will continue to wrestle with this, but the most important part is when and if we decide major balance changes are needed, we will let you know and it will be the result of a lot of consideration. Design changes like this need to be more tempered and considered. 

Thanks for hanging in there through all this confusion. Six years in and we are still learning how to do this.

This has been an ongoing problem for the last six years.  Looking at the path I have walked since I joined Open Beta (and this is something you really need to stress to the new players coming into the game-- it is still open beta); the plain and simple fact is that there is a laundry list of broken, half-worked out and even half-baked fix-it ideas still littering the floor of the origin system.

What's worse, we veterans get the impression that such fixes for those broken or half-baked ideas are only worked on when it can be shoehorned with new content being added....  or based on your declaration here seems to break the balance of the game in a way that goes against your ideals of fair and balanced play.  Then, anyone with any experience with this game and the updates often have to shrug off the inconsistencies to new players, saying such things as, "eh, it's bugframe!" or, "You'll get used to it" and continue playing.  

And more often times than naught, many things are left in a half-baked or broken state for months --- sometimes even years -- at a time before you get around to cleaning it up.  Then -- when it is fixed -- it's often done out of the blue and buried not in the firehose (now more like a sprinkler) of updates, but somewhere deep in the bowels of the forums -- often not even showing up as part of a search -- leaving many of the players that feel the effects wondering in shock and surprise of the changes.  And then screaming nerf because of their surprise ¹.

It's ironic that for a company that was touting transparency and then demonstrating it with this site; I'm reminded instead of this scene from H2G2 with the announcement of changes that often go unnoticed because they're not streamlined into update posts and then quietly slip into the game ².  

You have done an extraordinary job with the transparency work presented so far.  Yet like all attempts at anything, there is always room for improvement.  

The fact it that not everyone has time to watch the hype show Twitch Stream ever two weeks; hoping to glean something in the works while you often show off new features being worked into the game.  And based on the numbers between the live streams and the VOD -- you're not reaching a tenth of your total playing audience.  So you still have to rely on the advertising reporters and their respective magazines and e-mags, word of mouth of your partners, and people that take the time to disseminate that information to others via other twitch streamers working toward some form of partnership, Discord Servers they're part of, in game and even through Reddit.  

Word of mouth, I would like to stress -- that comes from players like me that think this game has tons of fun and tons of potential in spite of a six year process that still ignores the steep learning curve it creates.  

Not a Partner.

Not a Founder.

Just someone that immensely enjoys roleplaying a ninja (Shinobido) either killing indiscriminately -- or surgically -- while picking through the lore and reporting what problems I can clearly identify.  

Good luck with your admission here about we will let you know and it will be the result of a lot of consideration.  Remember though, If you build the guts to do something, anything, then you better save enough to face the consequences.

^{1 I'm ignoring that some people scream nerf in the hopes that enough of that noise will get it reversed because they learn you do listen. Society teaches people, "the squeakiest wheel gets the grease."} 

^{2 Nobody's perfect I know, there's a lot to report.  Some things slip through the cracks because of an imperfect universe.}

[DeltaPangaea]

2 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

I mean, the only point of using a gun is aiming and shooting, no? If you're not doing either of those things, I don't believe there's any practical reason to swap back to gun mode to begin with (aside from secondary fire, but hopefully that can be addressed in a future update). Fixing inconsistent functionality for players who use both guns is far more important.

Because using m1 to melee is a thing, even as much as it shouldn't have been since the option is CLEARLY just a slapdash bandaid meant to try and satisfy people who used M1 for their melee without actually considering how flawed it makes their system.

The thing is that a great amount of people like to have the weapon they want to use equipped AHEAD OF TIME, not just animation-snapping to having it equipped.

[Arc5in]

23 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Because using m1 to melee is a thing, even as much as it shouldn't have been since the option is CLEARLY just a slapdash bandaid meant to try and satisfy people who used M1 for their melee without actually considering how flawed it makes their system.

The thing is that a great amount of people like to have the weapon they want to use equipped AHEAD OF TIME, not just animation-snapping to having it equipped.

And F (or swap weapon) did, with the first few iterations of this update, switch you back to the weapon you were using. Pressing it twice to go back to gun and then swap guns is a minor, minor thing, and sacrificing aiming, and aim-gliding, with melee equipped, just so you can have another way of switching back to gun is a massive sacrifice just so people who want to switch back to their current gun without firing it, don't have to press F twice.

Not only that, it is inconsistent behavior. If you are using a gear item, like a scanner, torch, fishing spear, then F goes back to your last equiped gun, but if you use melee, then F changes guns. Simple solution, swap weapons swaps to your gun, and if you are already using gun, then it swaps guns. This is simple, sensible, lets us use aim with melee, fixes some currently broken combos, lets us use aim-glide with melee, and the only drawback, is that if you have a melee equipped, you have to press F (swap guns) twice to change guns, the same as you do when you have a torch or scanner out...

[Gandergear]

20 hours ago, Umgak said:

Don't worry. Exploiter requires relatively little in the ways of DPS. There's no time limit for it like with Profit-Taker's last phase or Eidolons in general. Also, no operator or archgun required. All you need is 1 Diluted Thermia per kill, and I believe that's 1 overall, not per person.

After doing it once (ran outta time and had to go sleep) I gotta say I really enjoyed it, the mechanics make sense and are fun, the orb is NOT a big dumb bullet sponge, you'd be able to take newbies in with you, almost any frame is viable, and the rewards are really good (too bad i'm already maxxed in Fortuna)

[shut]

1 hour ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Because using m1 to melee is a thing, even as much as it shouldn't have been since the option is CLEARLY just a slapdash bandaid meant to try and satisfy people who used M1 for their melee without actually considering how flawed it makes their system.

The thing is that a great amount of people like to have the weapon they want to use equipped AHEAD OF TIME, not just animation-snapping to having it equipped.

Ahh, I see your point now.

Yeah, the "M1 to melee" mode is awful right now, since you need to perform an entire damn melee attack with E to activate it in the first place. It would be nice if players with "M1 to melee" enabled had E turned into a "swap between melee mode and gun mode" button, with no attack animation attached to it.

[den2k]

Nice job not explaining a single muck about the Orb. Finding the cave is not easy. Then inside there is no guidance, no glowing stuff, no spoken works on what to do. I couldn't even begin the mission.

Having it placed inside the Vallis without a bounty means that I enter always when people are farming Thermia - the matchmaking is shaky by the way, I get 2-4 host migrations each time I enter in the Vallis.

During the fight, which I was able to start watching at the wikia, solo beacuse matchmaking tricked me there was little to no guidance while that ovewrly powerful cannon shredded mostly my innocent Sentinel and forced me to cycle through a lot of wardin halos, all without a single objective written on the screen.

In my trials I wassted quite the number of Energy restores, which means more grinding and more waiting...

Well, I'm losing again the will to play Warframe.

[DeltaPangaea]

33 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Ahh, I see your point now.

Yeah, the "M1 to melee" mode is awful right now, since you need to perform an entire damn melee attack with E to activate it in the first place. It would be nice if players with "M1 to melee" enabled had E turned into a "swap between melee mode and gun mode" button, with no attack animation attached to it.

I miss Quick Melee to be honest.

"I just want to hit a thing and then be back to gun with no fuss"

[MBaldelli]

33 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

I miss Quick Melee to be honest.

And as of yesterday's update, it's disabled entirely to swap back to either the fishing spear or the Mining Laser..  It will swap to primary or secondary weapons..  so I guess it wasn't supposed to swap from melee to non-attacking gear..  

Guess this broke that:

On 2019-03-14 at 4:06 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Pressing F when in Melee mode now switches you back to your "other" weapon. For example, if your Primary weapon is equipped when you trigger a Melee attack, you will return to your Primary weapon when you aim or fire. If you instead press F while in Melee mode, you will now equip your Secondary weapon.

 

[Test-995]

Is there less value than zero? because "The time to kill enemies~~" part seems saying so for me.

[SordidDreams]

On 2019-03-14 at 10:06 PM, [DE]Megan said:

with more damage, the time to kill on enemies is lowered and the value of Crowd Control declines even more (Vauban?!).

DE: *makes almost every enemy that's worth CCing immune to CC, such as coolant raknoids*

Players: *don't use CC frames*

DE: *surprised pikachu face*

[Slayer-.]

7 hours ago, den2k said:

Nice job not explaining a single muck about the Orb. Finding the cave is not easy. Then inside there is no guidance, no glowing stuff, no spoken works on what to do. I couldn't even begin the mission.

 

You are told the area where the cave is if you listen to the AI, I started it by exploring inside the deck and clicked on a console panel, (by mistake haha) I had no idea how to fight the Exploiter Orb so I listened to the AI that tells you what to do in each step, I'm 54 and an old gamer from way back and I worked it out players need to listen and explore areas, I also beat it first time with no prior know how of the fight. 😀

[BarbeBouille]

Really good job thanks to you

 

 

Sincerely, Berger

 

[MBaldelli]

On 2019-03-15 at 10:27 PM, SordidDreams said:

DE: *makes almost every enemy that's worth CCing immune to CC, such as coolant raknoids*

Players: *don't use CC frames*

DE: *surprised pikachu face*

Yeah this....  Once again it's a round of let's punish the new players by having to introduce them to the metas that go against the general game play they're currently at when they landed on Earth.  This is -- once again - something they're doing to appease the veterans that have no end game by punishing the level progression of new players to the game.  

[---BakiPrime---]

Le 14/03/2019 à 20:18, N7Paladin a dit :

Le 14/03/2019 à 19:10, --RazerChroma-- a dit :

set up two modes of combat a gun mode and a melee weapons mode to allow block and channel and pressing a key switch to gun mode aim and shoot while being able to change quickly to the melee example e melee modes and f firearms

100 percent agree. I don't know what idiot decided to screw over this entire melee system and turn it into a casual game of Mario Warframe Kart. I've been here since closed beta and i refuse to play this rubbish they came up with in Phase 1. Auto-Blocking is cancer, warframe AI is not that smart to have it auto do anything. The Ai Tech in this game is very stupid, we shouldn't be Auto-Doing anything. We had a perfectly good system that could use improvements. Instead, they totally destroyed our way of life in this game. What idiot signed off on this.

 

[---BakiPrime---]

Le 14/03/2019 à 20:18, N7Paladin a dit :

set up two modes of combat a gun mode and a melee weapons mode to allow block and channel and pressing a key switch to gun mode aim and shoot while being able to change quickly to the melee example e melee modes and f firearms

 

[---BakiPrime---]

set up two modes of combat a gun mode and a melee weapons mode to allow block and channel and pressing a key switch to gun mode aim and shoot while being able to change quickly to the melee example e melee modes and f firearms

[sacredaardvark]

Since the thread for the particular update where the change happened is locked, I'll say this here: 

Bring back incursions on PoE!  Those were the only borderline sensible way of getting certain mods!  Make PoE great again!

E.g. Arch gun elemental mods... Combustion Rounds, 2.5% chance from AW interception rot A, or 0.33% from four mobs only in AW missions, not that you'll pick them up even if they drop since you're usually killing enemies half a km away.

Since you need arch guns for the profit taker, you need the mods too, and these drop rates are atrocious.  Forcing a grind in a mode very few people play, is not the way to popularize that game mode.

[BlankFX]

On 2019-03-14 at 10:06 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Melee ‘Phase 1’ Changes & Fixes:

And now you revert all this nonsense please to make this game playable again. ASAP.

Or at least give us the option to set a key to draw the melee weapon instead of only giving us the option to draw it by attacking. Because this is absurd.

At least you gave us the option to attack using the Fire Button like in every game, whose keybinds are not utter nonsense.

[FIREDEATHDAN]

This literally didn't fixed anything for controller users i still can't finish a Melee combo that consist of holding LT

[FIREDEATHDAN]

Please DE release a patch to make it a option to enable or disable the new weapon melee rework, this is very annoying to deal with for people who use controller.