Adding optional First person mode

[(PSN)Zero_029]

On 2019-03-16 at 7:32 AM, Lost_Cartographer said:

The number of people responding like OP wants the game to go from 3PS to 1PS is disappointing.  This community really is bad at reading even the original post before responding.

To be fair if they did add a toggle they would still need to change the core gameplay to accommodate for those who prefer FPS as they would be at an extreme disadvantage in combat compared to players playing in TPS.

This is where I find myself at odds with the option.

I mentioned Destiny & its TPS for select weapons/powers previously because I remember all the players who wanted the option. One of many reasons Bungie gave to why it refused to add it as an option is because they would need to change encounters across the board to accommodate for it, that was before they got into how it would greatly alter PVP.

For Warframe this would probably mean a lower enemy count, static spawn locations, and some respawns being turned off once a player passes them.

[Lost_Cartographer]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

To be fair if they did add a toggle they would still need to change the core gameplay to accommodate for those who prefer FPS as they would be at an extreme disadvantage in combat compared to players playing in TPS.

This is where I find myself at odds with the option.

I mentioned Destiny & its TPS for select weapons/powers previously because I remember all the players who wanted the option. One of many reasons Bungie gave to why it refused to add it as an option is because they would need to change encounters across the board to accommodate for it, that was before they got into how it would greatly alter PVP.

For Warframe this would probably mean a lower enemy count, static spawn locations, and some respawns being turned off once a player passes them.

No.  It.  Wouldn't.  THE GAME WOULD NOT NEED AN OVERHAUL.  No shooter that allowed third or first person view truly caters to one over the other.  There is truth that big open spaces benefit from third person solely from a FoV standpoint, and tight spaces (of which Warframe has plenty) benefit from a first person view, but ultimately, gameplay adjustment is beyond minimal.  Third person in most shooters, let alone Warframe, is your hitbox being offset to the left or right and always forward your camera.  And in Warframe, unless you're using projectile weapons, bullets fire from your cross hair, not the weapon.  At best, the warframe stands in for a hud icon telling you if you're crouching, standing or sprinting,, jumping, etc and they've already added a sprint indicator to the crosshair, so it's not like that concept is beyond DE's capabilities to add any other states.

The only valid reason to not introducing a first-person viewpoint is that it will lack quality and polish without some serious commitment to the view point.  Anything else is BS, unless we're talking God of War or Metal Gear Rising having a 1st person view option.  Now THAT would require game play overhauls.  But a third person shooter where the camera hovers over a shoulder?  Not really, no.

Edited March 17, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

[Redlove108]

People think it is so easy to code something 1st person into this game. It is not. It will be a lot of resources spent on a side project to satisfy a few who are too addicted to shooters can't adjust to a game that has more than "pew pew" in it. Just to give you an idea of the obvious things they would need to change:

1) Create a whole new skeleton for animations that works for all frames cause newsflash, to animate in 1st person perspective takes a distorted skeleton to make it look right. Just look at the work put into Mirror's Edge.

2) Using a new skeleton requires making a whole new batch of animations with that skeleton. I'm sure they got a way to transfer most of it over like for emotes but for things like holding the gun in your view will probably require new animations or new features in the engine to hide part of the frame from clipping the gun, blocking your view and or both. Or even new models for the frames that just show their limbs in first person.

3) Then there's the whole disorienting feeling of seeing boobs/massive cod piece or vastly different bodies sizes and types when you look down at your own character in first person. Or how about the height differences because you use different frames? Now imagine that height difference when you pop in and out of operator mode in 1st person while fighting an eidolon. That just gives me a headache thinking about it!

4) A new set of Parkour animations just for 1st person so you have an idea of what is going on when you move around. You will need the visual indications of when you grab a ledge, bounce up a wall,  bullet jump (maybe some woosh lines), etc. You'll need animations for when you are knocked down besides your camera falling to the floor cause yea, you gonna get knocked down, stumbled and thrown around especially in Vallis.

5) Visual hud indications when frames use certain powers because you will not move while casting but without some animation or indication you'll think you are stuck when you aren't. Additional visuals for when you are hit with by certain status effects (freeze, impact, knockback). Some kind of visual indication of when you are in operator mode because trust me you will forget in the heat of combat if you are locked in first person.

6) Deciding when 3rd person should be used for small instances like when hacking a console, going into operator mode, using your UI (foundry, mods, arsensal, etc).

7) Melee 2.9999. The sheer volume of animations there would have to be tweaked in some way so it won't be disorienting for the player. That or they just have your limbs flailing around you like some silly arm puppet at a car dealership. Just take a moment and try to visual melee in first person. Spin attack, fist combos, dagger combos, staves, hammers, sword and shield, etc. Then there's the auto parry that will certainly have your arms waving infront of you ~~like you just don't care!~~

 

This is just stuff off the top of my head. I'm sure DE themselves could probably rattle off another half dozen additional issues they'll have to overcome to bring this to life in warframe. Even if it was a toggle, if it is a S#&$ty toggle no one will want to use it or use it for long. Those who do will like it for a day and get frustrated in the coming weeks with how boring or lack luster it feels compared to other games who built themselves around 1st person.

This is not a worthwhile investment for them right now. Not when they got much planned and working on so much more for this year.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

7 hours ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

No.  It.  Wouldn't.  THE GAME WOULD NOT NEED AN OVERHAUL.  No shooter that allowed third or first person view truly caters to one over the other.  There is truth that big open spaces benefit from third person solely from a FoV standpoint, and tight spaces (of which Warframe has plenty) benefit from a first person view, but ultimately, gameplay adjustment is beyond minimal.  Third person in most shooters, let alone Warframe, is your hitbox being offset to the left or right and always forward your camera.  And in Warframe, unless you're using projectile weapons, bullets fire from your cross hair, not the weapon.  At best, the warframe stands in for a hud icon telling you if you're crouching, standing or sprinting,, jumping, etc and they've already added a sprint indicator to the crosshair, so it's not like that concept is beyond DE's capabilities to add any other states.

The only valid reason to not introducing a first-person viewpoint is that it will lack quality and polish without some serious commitment to the view point.  Anything else is BS, unless we're talking God of War or Metal Gear Rising having a 1st person view option.  Now THAT would require game play overhauls.  But a third person shooter where the camera hovers over a shoulder?  Not really, no.

Right. Which is why so many FPS games won't add in a TPS mode.

It goes without saying they'd need to polish a FPS mode.

But they would need to alter mechanics. There is a very big reason to why horde based games use Third Person perspective. FPS games that try to have horses of enemies on the scale of Warframe & Diablo end up being atrocious, filled with what gamers call "cheap deaths" "cheap mechanics".

DE would need to change enemy behavior to account for the limited view FPS gameplay introduces.

Otherwise DE would be plagued with folks feeling "forced" to use Third Person mode.

Let's not dance around the human element. If DE just suddenly added this mode with no change to Warframe's gameplay there would be scores of people complaining about how easily enemies are killing them.

Enemies literally pop out of thin air "behind" the player & without the Third person viewpoint players cannot see the incoming attacks & adapt to the situation.

The mirror of this conversation was broken down by game devs from other studios, from hitboxes, to enemy spawns, to player response, to "fair gameplay", to "PVP".

YOU might think it'd require nothing more than polish but you're not thinking the long term nor are you considering the player response to such a mode.

It's going to seem like a stretch but you can look at the "Horror Royale" games that have launched (Dead by Daylight & etc). The devs purposely put the Killer in First person in order to hinder the Killer, & give the Survivors Third person to give them situation awareness & an advantage.

On a dev blog (I believe it was Friday the 13th not Dead by Daylight's) one of the main purposes for this was that they found the limited perspective to add a new layer of challenge as it allowed survivors to both hide & attack the killer when able, while preventing the killer from being able to have any chance of countering until after the action.

Bungie said the reverse with adding in Third Person for Destiny. On how it'd trivialize enemy spawns/perches/locations. One reason Destiny uses FPS (besides it being Bungie's specialty) is that the limit view makes enemies harder to find.

Taking all that & looking at Warframe, many players would find themselves getting all sorts of messed up from enemies they never saw coming, snipers that they didn't know were taking aim, CC (bounce grenades, scorpion/moa/ancient tethers) that they never had a chance to see coming, & etc.

Notice that Destiny doesn't have enemies that knockdown the player, drag the player, stun the player, large Bubbles that negate their abilities (Nullifiers), enemies that switch teleport with them from afar (commanders), enemies that release a pulse that hinders the player ( Comba/Scrambus), enemies that lob various CC devices onto them from afar (Bursa, Mutilists Moa). 

The worse thing Destiny players get is a Knockback on par with a pre-nerf Sonicor shot & grenades that temporarily block/forbid the use of their abilities for under 3-5 seconds.

Part of this is due to "fairplay". In FPS mode even with a radar mod a player will never see many of Warframe's enemy mechanics coming & it'll lead to extreme player frustration, cheap deaths, & numerous complaints about how badly it was implemented or devs making deliberate unavoidable mechanics.

(Probably resulting in nerfs across the board. Hell Commanders, Combas, Ancients, & Scrambus got nerfed with the game being third person. Hell imagine The Profit Taker & Exploiter fights in FPS mode.)

A lot of Warframe gameplay isn't suited for just a bare bones FPS mode. It would require gameplay changes.

[Carnage2K4]

On 2019-03-16 at 5:22 AM, HellVOps said:

OP, do you play any other 3rdPerson games similar in style to WF that has both options?

lol can you even name a game in the style of Warframe?

[Montik]

How about adding a FPS mod to the game? for example, how it is done in destiny 2 (FPS mod primary and secondary weapons) (TPS mod close combat , skill's and hub(cutes,relay,market ...) But leave in the settings the choice of FPS & TPS mod or only TPS mod. As for me, the FPS mod will give +100 to the atmosphere 

P.S. Sorry for my bad English

Спойлер

Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/b4sdt6/fpfirstperson_and_tpthirdperson/

 

 

 

[Hecro]

In order for first person to be any viable in Warframe, it should be much better than the nowadays' FPS point of view... for some reason, game developers think we all suffer from glaucoma, or something.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

Yes. Please. Give me that dizzying parkour bullet jump BS and the beautiful particle effects that definitely won't slow my FPS to a screeching halt. I NEED this. It's SO necessary.

[Montik]

How about adding a FPS mod to the game? for example, how it is done in destiny 2 (FPS mod primary and secondary weapons) (TPS mod close combat , skill's and hub(cutes,relay,market ...) But leave in the settings the choice of FPS & TPS mod or only TPS mod. As for me, the FPS mod will give +100 to the atmosphere 

P.S. Sorry for my bad English

Спойлер

Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/b4sdt6/fpfirstperson_and_tpthirdperson/

 

[HugintheCrow]

Yeah dude, let's just redo every single weapon model and the entire movement system for the first person camera to work.

[Blade_Wolf_16]

See that blue line with different functionnalities below the Lotus face on top of the page?

Look right. It says: "Search".

 

I'm not going to explain once again how and why this is one of the worst ideas for a fast paced game like Warframe. 

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

DE has said it wasn't going to add FPS views beyond what we have now from certain cameras and what-nots..I've played FP using the hack glitch and Loki can sometimes go into a FP mode where you only see the reticle...

Warframe is a beautiful game in FP view, from the details, to movements..You basically are puling the Halo reach EVADE screen bump when you roll or bullet jump where you never lose sight of your enemy...and it's actually way easier to aim in this view...

I can't see De adding a FP view option, I think we'd be fine if they did...

[DorneliosV]

I told ya, this game is dead 

The fact i told ya the reason why this game wil die soon just happend a time ago 

 

[ant99999]

2 hours ago, DorneliosV said:

I told ya, this thread is dead 

Here, ftfy