Baruuk is good, but needs just a bit more.

[AlexanderDMoon]

Three things: Serene Storm's Status Chance & activate/deactivate animation, and Desolate Hands.
 

Serene Storm in an incredibly powerful ability, don't get me wrong. It absolutely shreds most things that you'll come across in the star chart and in sorties, but the one thing it suffers against is armour. It's status chance doesn't allow the ability to reliably proc corrosive damage on armoured targets, which leaves him suffering in high-level Grineer and Corrupted missions. Its activation and deactivation animations are also a tad slow and aren't cancellable.

Desolate Hands is another great ability, but with the lack of control over where your daggers go is a problem. They attach to teammates and fly at enemies- which is fine, but when you want to keep that damage resistance, and because the fact that the explosions the daggers cause don't disarm multiple opponents in a radius, makes this quite a nuisance as well.

 

My Proposal-

Serene Storm:
-Increase it's Status Chance from 10%, to 18% or even 20%. This will allow for the use of two or three dual-stat mods to bump up the status chance to a moderately high level.
-Allow for it to immediately be used after activation, or for weapons to be immediately usable after deactivation.

Desolate Hands:
-Instead of just being able to cast the ability and have the daggers fly off towards teammates and enemies with no constraint, have the daggers stick to Baruuk no matter what. Pressing and holding the button will also cast daggers onto every ally regardless of range, and will always be a minimum set number of daggers that scales with power strength (the number of daggers a teammate gets should be equal to at least half of what Baruuk himself gets, even if he's accompanied by 3 teammates). Daggers stuck to teammates will fly off toward enemies, and the resulting burst of the enemy weapon being destroyed will also disarm enemies around it. Enemies that are CC'd by abilities should take extra damage from the daggers, with the daggers themselves having a much larger disarm/weapon destroy radius, allowing for synergy with Lull. To keep track of how many daggers are attached to a teammate, they should have a buff icon visible to Baruuk showing the number of daggers they have on them so he can recast the ability and refresh the amount of daggers when needed.

 

Thoughts?

[Rawbeard]

"it's good, but needs more" is code for "it's really not good".

his kit has no real synergy, other than fueling his 4. it's way too passive if you play in a squad, where only the disarm has mild value and mostly is still only used to fuel his 4. basically... he is kinda the new Wukong. better, but still the same vein.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

His 4 needs a buff. If it didn’t start falling off around level 85 it would justify the slow casting animation, and the requirement to build up restraint to use it.

but yeah, I’ll agree that he’s good outside of that.

other than that, Desolate Hands daggers are not designed for Damage. If they need anything it’s that their AOE explosion needs to also disarm regardless of if enemies are CCed or not.

What does need to be fixed is the range buff Desolate hands gets when you have Elude active. That just needs to be removed.

32 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

his kit has no real synergy

Not every frame needs to have synergy. Heck some of the best frames in the game still lack synergy.

Edited March 17, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Rawbeard]

27 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Not every frame needs to have synergy.

whats the point of having a power that needs you to get shot, and two powers that stop enemies from shooting you? there is a limit of how "unsynergistic" a frame can be. and I somehow doubt you fully grasp a concept when you see a frame being compared to Wukong and reply with "some of the best frame in the game still lack synergy". I really am curious what you think those frame are. it's not Wukong, is it?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, Rawbeard said:

whats the point of having a power that needs you to get shot, and two powers that stop enemies from shooting you? there is a limit of how "unsynergistic" a frame can be. and I somehow doubt you fully grasp a concept when you see a frame being compared to Wukong and reply with "some of the best frame in the game still lack synergy". I really am curious what you think those frame are. it's not Wukong, is it?

If you want to get shot don’t use his other abilities. Tho if you build for Elude and Lull Desolate Hands is useless.

good frames with no synergy: Nova, Equinox, Frost, Inaros, Mesa, Volt, Trinity, Harrow.

[Insizer]

I gave up on Baruuk because i found him extremely boring to play.  He has two abilities that radially disable enemies, and an ult that is better for punting enemies than actually damaging them.  In my mind one of his redundant abilities needs to be replaced with something that he doesn't already do, and something makes him have a more active playstyle.  For having a kit that feeds into his ult, he has a pretty bad ult because it just punts anything it can't kill in 2 hits.  When it can't kill or do meaningful damage in those 1-2 hits then you need to either chase them or corner them against a wall.  The only nice things about him is his first ability, has strong disables, and that his, disappointing, ult uses no energy.

For me he is in a terrible place and is a massive disappointment that will stay collecting dust until he does more than dodge, disable, and punt enemies.

Your changes OP, won't address the issues imo.  I would get rid of the punting on his ult's punches, putting that on his ground pound.  I would also have Desolate Hands (if neither it or Lull is replaced) casted at a targeted area if held during the cast or perhaps the other way round.  Make his ult do more damage to Lulled enemies or disarmed enemies.

[Rawbeard]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

good frames with no synergy: Nova, Equinox, Frost, Inaros, Mesa, Volt, Trinity, Harrow.

ahahaha, omg, this is pretty much what I was expecting. yeah, no. you have no idea what synergy is, I guess. all of those are very synergistic frames, which is why they get used a lot. you can argue that one of their abilities is pointless at best, or otherwise is counter to what they are supposed to do.

[Insizer]

48 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

ahahaha, omg, this is pretty much what I was expecting. yeah, no. you have no idea what synergy is, I guess. all of those are very synergistic frames, which is why they get used a lot. you can argue that one of their abilities is pointless at best, or otherwise is counter to what they are supposed to do.

To me, synergy isn't about "how many of their abilities do things" rather how much their ability play with each other.  Because of that Volt has no synergy at all aside from Shock electrifying shields and comboing with his ult.  The synergy between Speed and Electric Shield is hampered if anything by the distance drain of Riot Shield mode, and its reduced movement speed.  also his passive is damn near worthless without E.shield's augment mod. 

Mesa also doesn't have much if any synergy her entire kit is a collection of separate abilities.  She does have a playstyle theme (ability tank + damage) to her though which her abilities play to very well.  There are other frames in the list that I would say the same for, they have a playstyle theme to which their abilities play towards quite well.  That said, I don't know why Inaros is there.  He is a gold/silver standard when it comes to synergy.  Nearly all of his abilities have easy interplay, and his first ability was built to prime his passive.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

it's been too long now, i don't think DE cares about changing baruuk...usually they tweak warframes right after they release them, like khora and revenant...

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, Rawbeard said:

ahahaha, omg, this is pretty much what I was expecting. yeah, no. you have no idea what synergy is, I guess. all of those are very synergistic frames, which is why they get used a lot. you can argue that one of their abilities is pointless at best, or otherwise is counter to what they are supposed to do.

No, you don’t know what synergy is. There are ways that some of these frames abilities do indirectly help each other, but actually synergies are things like Oberons 4 stripping armor of enemies standing on his 2, or Saryns 3 insteatly popping her spores, Or everything about Nidus just feeds into making his 1 perform better.

[(XBOX)Purdue Wolf]

1 hour ago, Rawbeard said:

ahahaha, omg, this is pretty much what I was expecting. yeah, no. you have no idea what synergy is, I guess. all of those are very synergistic frames, which is why they get used a lot. you can argue that one of their abilities is pointless at best, or otherwise is counter to what they are supposed to do.

As other users have stated before, Gears thinks he's always right, he's the one above all, he even knows more than any PC expert...

The frames listed have excellent synergy.

No matter how hard you try to reason with 'stupid' it'll turn into a long page of arguments.

Now watch, 'stupid' comments get requoted about how either of us are not correct....

Edited March 17, 2019 by (XB1)StripedWolf2001
Mispell

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

If you want to get shot don’t use his other abilities. Tho if you build for Elude and Lull Desolate Hands is useless.

good frames with no synergy: Nova, Equinox, Frost, Inaros, Mesa, Volt, Trinity, Harrow.

Volt can charge his 3 with his 1 so his 3 does damage

nova does with her 4 augment

Harrow does with how his 1 gives more shields for more duration with his 2

frost can pop his bubbles with his 1 (Thankfully)

Inaros can use his 3 on enemies affected by his 2 to heal and create specters

These are all synergies. Out of the frames you listed the only ones that really lacks synergies is equinox and mesa.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Volt can charge his 3 with his 1 so his 3 does damage

nova does with her 4 augment

Harrow does with how his 1 gives more shields for more duration with his 2

frost can pop his bubbles with his 1 (Thankfully)

Inaros can use his 3 on enemies affected by his 2 to heal and create specters

These are all synergies. Out of the frames you listed the only ones that really lacks synergies is equinox and mesa.

1. I’m not counting augments, tho I knew someone would bring it up which is the reason I didn’t Rhino on the list. As all his augments are just synergy creators.

2. Can we really count Frosts 1 deleting his 3 as a synergy? That’s more of a functionality. It doesn’t improve either ability in any significant way, just offers a way to remove the bubble that’s not recasting it 4 times in the same place.

3. I’ll have to test that thing with Volt and Inaros. As I have never heard of either of those ever being a thing.

Edit: Tested the Volt and Inaros things. While they are synergies that shield damage is pitiful and you’re better off just draining Inaros 2 target directly instead of flinging them around and eventually out of your tornado to heal yourself. So if anything’s that’s anti synergy.

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

I consider an ability synergy as thus, any effect caused by an ability that directly or indirectly affects or alters another ability on a frame. I could go further and classify active and passive synergies.

For active synergies, the effect is a direct effect to another ability and nothing else. The synergy exists solely to create a unique effect on one ability or the other. Popping frost bubbles, smashing garas walls, toxic lash instantly spreading spores etc.

For passive synergies, the effects of one ability indirectly benefit another. Ususlly due to abilitys being affected by a universal modifier. Harrows 1 affecting his 2, embers abilities doing more damage against accelerant affected foes, ivara flying her quiver arrows. You can even throw in a rhino roar boosted stomp in here.

Both types can be considered synergies. I have noticed while writing this there sre not a lot of passive synergies.. tho they are more subtle.

As far as i am concerned most synergies are at best little benefical interactions for flavor. Where truely powerful ones are admittedly rare but obvious, mechanically they are not that much more complex.

Frosts bubbles explode for damage just like garas wall when broken with the respective first abilities, but the damage is effectively negligible with frost.

Likewise tho volts shields do little damage as a result of their synergies again the interaction is no less complex than the bonus you get others.

Hmmm.

Edited March 18, 2019 by (PS4)ForNoPurpose

[Insizer]

so this thread has derailed, can we get it back on track on why Baruuk needs much more than "just a bit more" to be good?

Edited March 18, 2019 by Insizer

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

I consider an ability synergy as thus, any effect caused by an ability that directly or indirectly affects or alter...

And there’s the problem. For you synergies are what “you consider”. I’m not going to debate technicalities with you.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, Insizer said:

so this thread has derailed, can we get it back on track on why Baruuk needs much more than "just a bit more" to be good?

There’s honestly not much too talk about.

Buff his 4.

Remove the range anti synergy between his 3 and 1.

Maybe change how his 3 performs what it does or just reduce its cost from 75 to 50 energy because I find myself recasting it a lot. And tbh 75 energy is far too expensive for the Desolate hands even does.

Edited March 18, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Melanholic7]

On wiki i read that people saying that with melee 2.9999 his ulty works very bad. Is this truth? cause if yes and with new “super cool system” of arcanes, where they wont work for Exalted weapons (so we cant even use Arcane strike to help us) - this looks like S#&$ 😞 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 hours ago, Melanholic7 said:

On wiki i read that people saying that with melee 2.9999 his ulty works very bad. Is this truth? cause if yes and with new “super cool system” of arcanes, where they wont work for Exalted weapons (so we cant even use Arcane strike to help us) - this looks like S#&$ 😞 

If anything is should actually work better cuz you’ll be able to quick switch to a stronger gun. Should be very helpful in Arbitration’s to get rid of drones.

[Melanholic7]

nvm i tested baruuk 4 dmg and its terrible 😞 Ehhh. He only knocks enemies aways and damage is very low (i mean, at least vs solid lvl grineers). So, i dont really understand whats the point of his ult in this situation. So, he got only one useful skill (and passive ofc) - support skill - his daggers. Other skills are not valuable, just cause his ulty is weak. 

Well, just my opinion 😮 

Dont know now what to do with him...cause i like his ult feeling (i mean, attacking animations) and his model look, but he is so crappy on the power side that its painful to choose him over other frames with real abilities...

or maybe im just cooking him bad =/ 

need to go for youtube videos,maybe x)

Edited March 18, 2019 by Melanholic7

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I feel like We've been conceding to mediocre design (with new frames and reworks) lately.  Baruuk is far from good.  He functions.  He has notable aspects that are good.  But his design stumbles all over itself.  The creme del le creme of his kit serine storm doesn't feel good enough for a kit that's built around unlocking that ability.  etc.  I doubt Baruuk will receive any love anytime soon.  He'll just share places with Revenant in the "why would I even bother" tier.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

A question for pc players about baruuk: I saw on the upcoming patch for consoles a change where “Baruuk’s serene storm waves are affected by combo multipliers.” Does this mean his waves buuld combo, or just that the bonus damage from the combo multiplier is now affecting his waves?  

[Insizer]

On 2019-03-18 at 10:36 PM, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I feel like We've been conceding to mediocre design (with new frames and reworks) lately.  Baruuk is far from good.  He functions.  He has notable aspects that are good.  But his design stumbles all over itself.  The creme del le creme of his kit serine storm doesn't feel good enough for a kit that's built around unlocking that ability.  etc.  I doubt Baruuk will receive any love anytime soon.  He'll just share places with Revenant in the "why would I even bother" tier.

Tbh I love Garuda's kit and think DE did a good job on it.  Then Baruuk came out with such a bad kit that I wondered if a different team designed him.  Now we have Hildryn who, while interesting, has a slightly better than average, not too spectacular kit.

 

12 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

A question for pc players about baruuk: I saw on the upcoming patch for consoles a change where “Baruuk’s serene storm waves are affected by combo multipliers.” Does this mean his waves buuld combo, or just that the bonus damage from the combo multiplier is now affecting his waves?  

the wording to me sounds like it is the later.  It will help, but not as much as it could because you still punt enemies, making you chase after them.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, Insizer said:

Tbh I love Garuda's kit and think DE did a good job on it.  Then Baruuk came out with such a bad kit that I wondered if a different team designed him.  Now we have Hildryn who, while interesting, has a slightly better than average, not too spectacular kit.

I think you’re being a bit hard on Baruuk. I mean his 4 is completely underpowered no denying that, but he’s not a bad frame. He’s incredibly tanky and his AOE sleep is actually pretty effective. And if you want I can PM you the build I put on his 4 to get some form of decent performance out of it.

[Insizer]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I think you’re being a bit hard on Baruuk. I mean his 4 is completely underpowered no denying that, but he’s not a bad frame. He’s incredibly tanky and his AOE sleep is actually pretty effective. And if you want I can PM you the build I put on his 4 to get some form of decent performance out of it.

I meant bad design-wise.  Sure, he works, but that's it.  He has 2 abilities for disabling enemies and everything powers an ult that can't land good damage more than once or twice on an enemy before they get knocked 10m away.  And his passive, his 3rd, and his 4th all offer added damage resistance.  Why are there 3 sources of damage resistance, especially when his 1st makes him damn near invincible?  Can't one of those at least give you something else?  He has a theme to his kit: "pacify then retaliate", but mechanically the only things that ties his kit together is a meter that fuels his lackluster ult and the overlapping redundancies the make Baruuk's kit keep stepping on its own feet.

Compare that to Garuda who came right before him.  Her 1st insta-kills enemies and builds up blood (which it can then shoot).  Both of these traits lend themselves to using her 1st often, if not spamming it.  Her 2nd makes a healing totem.  Her 3rd sacrifices health for energy (which pairs well with the aggressive use of her 1st, and creates a energy-health loop with her 2nd.  Her passive can be regulated with her 2nd and 3rd.  Her kit is well woven together, except for her ult which kinda sticks out.

I'm trying to be as unbiased in my comparison as I can be, but Baruuk's kit was a let down for me because not only does he have a lackluster ult and two redundant abilities (this is huge for me), but also the weaving of his kit is shallow.  There is no denying the ability to become practically invincible (and building up damage resistance when you are hit) while putting enemies to sleep/disarming them is potent, but that's all he is.  He's like a more CC-centric version of Wukong.  He will get the job done, but he will do it tripping over his own kit.

The best things they could do for Baruuk in my mind is to:

1. change one of his disable abilities into something else or make it something other than a radial AoE or effective radial AoE. 
2. Make his ult more worthwhile.
3. Make at least one of his abilities have a bonus that scales up when his Restrain meter is full (not depleted by abilities 1, 2, and 3).  This would give you bonuses that can manage via his non-ult abilities (to deplete the meter) and his ult (to restore the meter).  It would also you force you to weigh between having more damage resistance from his passive and more whatever this new bonus would be.
   1. They might want to change the passive's and Desolate Hands' damage resistance bonus because it is made redundant by his first ability.  I can understand the added damage resistance on his ult though because he is meleeing often, which prevent his 1st from being useful

Edited March 20, 2019 by Insizer