Gilded Challenge is Borderline Extortion

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

1 hour ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Yes, because opening a thread claiming that all people holding dissenting opinions don't count and not to bother presenting arguments because they'll just be ignored because they come form someone who doesn't count is a FANTASTIC AND FLAWLESS METHOD TO HAVE A DISCUSSION.

Christ, people whine about Reddit being an echo chamber, but see nothing wrong with a forum thread saying "If you disagree, you don't count."

I think that's a slight misrepresentation.   Every week when somebody complains about a challenge they are told either "it's optional" or "you don't have to do it" over and over.  We understand its optional which is why I got it out of the way right at the beginning - I acknowledged it before it was even said, yes it's optional and that's why I'm not doing it - so no need for the cookie cutter responses, I already know what they're going to say.

In my eyes "it's optional" is a total non-argument for underlying design anyway, just because something is optional doesn't mean the option isn't bad.  That's why I try to cut that view out, because it IS irrelevant at the end of the day.  It provides absolutely nothing towards furthering the discussion.    

I called it an NPC response because it's regurgitated and has the explicit intent of bypassing everything I say without any acknowledgement of my grievance.  They try to use it as some wild card to instantly win, like slapping down an Exodia in Yu-Gi-Oh. 

I opened with it because most of us with legitimate complaints are sick of the same drivel over and over.  

Edited March 18, 2019 by (PS4)lagrue

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

1 hour ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

 

I didn't call somebody an NPC, i called that form of response NPC.  I understand what you're saying, but my criticism is not the people, but their cookie cutter responses.  

Also NPC was meant to refer to people who parrot the same talking points over and over in unison without providing any unique thought or context  It's not an attack on the person - it's an attack on how they express opinions (if they even are opinions, it's generally assumed they're just repeated talking points).  It's not meant to be an attack on their humanity - it's a playful quip at their poorly executed format of "debate."  The entire thing is that they talk like NPCs do - they say bland and basic things.  It's that simple.

I've also never been offended or dehumanized by a meme - and let me tell you as an Indian/Hindu, there's 1000s of memes out there that make fun of my religion, my race, etc. and I survive.  If "NPC" is a reportable offense then I pray DE never opens region chat because 99% of people would be banned in an instant.  There's far worse in there and funny enough people use NPC in region all the time - which is where I originally picked it up - IN THIS GAME.  

My qualifier for NPC seems to fit well to this situation.  "lol it's optional" is not an in depth take with any real thought put in, nor does it at all address what I'm saying.  It's parrot speak.  It's exactly what an NPC talking point is referring to.  

Edited March 18, 2019 by (PS4)lagrue

[Bigflufy]

17 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Before I hear the usual cut and paste replies.  Yes I know I can skip the challenge, and I am.  

I think it's wrong that a challenge can force a player into this scenario.  I'm basically excluded from the challenge just for not having free slots open which leaves me 2 very crappy options.  All my Amp slots are full, all my weapon slots... like come on DE.  

 

16 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

 

There's a fine difference between buying slots for something new to play with and buying slots to complete game objectives.  Feel how you will, but this is wrong.  I've never had to pay premium currency to complete objectives in this game in 5 years playing.  It's not a precedent I'd like to see started now. 

Whats the difference, if your buying slots for an objective they can still be used for something new. The fact that they were purchased because of nightwave doesnt mean they cant be used for future weapons. 

5 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Spending premium currency for new stuff and content to play with?  I'm more than cool with that. 
Spending premium currency to complete in-game objectives?  That's dirty.  

Same response as the last, you still are spending plat on new content. 

I wanted to add that this challenge is good for the game as it encourages players who aren't invested in zaws to get invested and try new content that they havent done before. If you dont need to guild any zaws because you've already mastered all of them then you can skip the challenge.

 

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

I really hate the gild and forma challenges like all of you.

That said, it's a little less aggravating when you realize the following.

1 - For the gild challenge, you can build a cheap mote amp and destroy it the minute you gild it. Just build one, level it once and delete it the second after you gild it. Then again, the mote amp is the worse thing ever created and it's absolute torture to level it up... But at least you won't have wasted a gazillion materials on an useless weapon.

2 - For the formas, you don't have to level the items either. You could just forma three MR fodder weapons that are sitting in your collection and never reveling / deleting them, or you could put three formas on stuff you like, then wait for an affinity booster and level them in a couple of weeks. Then again , might as well put them on things you enjoy using.

Again, both challenges really suck, I don't want to feel like I approve of them, just giving you tips and tricks to make the thing less painful to do.

Edited March 18, 2019 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[Guest]

Well, I made a crit machete for Cyclone Kraken and gilded it. Then formaed it and my Catchmoon because I got a Catchmoon riven unlocked while fishing in the plains. Then I ran the fissures when their mission types matched the x3 missions and got the 1500 kills while running those using the Catchmoon and Zaw.

Basically I did everything concurrently, so I didn't sweat it and only have Profit Taker left for the week after 2 hours of grind.

Seems pretty tame compared to last week and the week before.

[(XBOX)RPColten]

...there's always something with these challenges.

[Vox_Preliator]

5 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

I think that's a slight misrepresentation.   Every week when somebody complains about a challenge they are told either "it's optional" or "you don't have to do it" over and over.  We understand its optional which is why I got it out of the way right at the beginning - I acknowledged it before it was even said, yes it's optional and that's why I'm not doing it - so no need for the cookie cutter responses, I already know what they're going to say.

In my eyes "it's optional" is a total non-argument for underlying design anyway, just because something is optional doesn't mean the option isn't bad.  That's why I try to cut that view out, because it IS irrelevant at the end of the day.  It provides absolutely nothing towards furthering the discussion.    

I called it an NPC response because it's regurgitated and has the explicit intent of bypassing everything I say without any acknowledgement of my grievance.  They try to use it as some wild card to instantly win, like slapping down an Exodia in Yu-Gi-Oh. 

I opened with it because most of us with legitimate complaints are sick of the same drivel over and over.

Yet the reverse is also true, "I don't want to hear that argument" is also a non-argument.  You've countered nothing, but tried to stifle dissent.

You are putting your own thoughts above those of others by claiming yours as "legitimate" while any disagreement is "the same drivel over and over" with no justification for either. 

For that matter, it would have been entirely possible to just acknowledge the opposite side in the OP.  Something like '"Yes, it's optional, but there are still issues with this sort of challenge and it's important that this is known and discussed.  Being optional does not excuse being bad, which it is for the above reasons."  As opposed to "Y'all don't count, stay out of my thread."  Writing with overt implications like that always detracts from the thread as a whole and distracts from more meaningful arguments.

Had the OP just been polite instead of dismissive and rude we'd likely all be talking about how challenges like this are boring at best, and how they do succeed in drawing attention to probably-neglected parts of the game, and that it should retroactively apply if you have something gilded already because then it's likely one has already gilded many, and how hopefully they will do fewer arbitrary missions like this come season 2.

Instead we ended up here.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

17 hours ago, Vox_Preliator said:

As opposed to "Y'all don't count, stay out of my thread." 

To be frank I believe that case can still be made that it shouldn't count.  You're saying I'm dismissing views - yes I'm dismissing already dismissive views.  That's the point.  If something is said and meant to bypass the discussion at hand to dismiss it, then it's not worth adding.  There's a difference between dissenting opinions and dismissive opinions.  It's okay to dismiss the latter right back, because it has no intention of actually being part of a conversation.  Dismissing dissenting opinions is stupid, having challenge and opposition is okay - but if somebody isn't even going to take the time lay our proper arguments, or understand yours, then they really don't want a debate or to express opinions - they just want to stifle yours. 

It's like arguing with somebody about why a movie is good/bad and then they say  "it was optional to watch the movie."  What does that have to do whether the movie is bad or not?  Nothing.  It's pointless and dismissive of the base argument without actually acknowledging it.  There's no discussion being had of whether or not the movie is good or bad because the "opponent" if you can even call them as much, doesn't care and dismisses the argument.   It's okay to dismiss irrelevant takes when they are most certainly irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

It's funny you're accusing me of doing the very things I was trying to safeguard against.  But - for what it's worth, I DID acknowledge that argument preemptively, even if it was rude - the entire idea was that if it was addressed beforehand, then it would be "out of the way" and unnecessary to be repeated.  I acknowledged it SO I could dismiss it.  Which is quite different than what people actually saying it would be doing, which is Dismissing and refusing to acknowledge at the same time.   

Me:  Awknowlege then Dismiss
Them: Don't awknowlege and Dimiss

Edited March 19, 2019 by (PS4)lagrue

[True_Naeblis]

19 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

Well, I made a crit machete for Cyclone Kraken and gilded it. Then formaed it and my Catchmoon because I got a Catchmoon riven unlocked while fishing in the plains. Then I ran the fissures when their mission types matched the x3 missions and got the 1500 kills while running those using the Catchmoon and Zaw.

Basically I did everything concurrently, so I didn't sweat it and only have Profit Taker left for the week after 2 hours of grind.

Seems pretty tame compared to last week and the week before.

I can't imagine that it's hard for you to reason that on average players are unlikely to fit your situation and have: Forma BPs or pre-built Forma ready to go, three slots that they are ready to polarize at the moment, current rank & resources that allow for the building of and guilding of a modular weapon, slots to spare for said weapon, and the time to make all of that happen. Imagine a player who only hops on during the weekend. They get on Saturday and suddenly see they need to craft three Forma before the weekend is out because they can't play after Sunday. Their only means of participating is now to spend Plat, either to rush builds or to buy a three Forma bundle. If they don't have slots free, their only means of participating is to spend Plat, and if they don't have a modular weapon that they need/want to build it's Plat wasted for something they're going to throw away. They also have to build said weapon in time to use it, so if they have to gather additional resources they might need to rush the build in order to get things done within the play window they have available.

So much of Nightwave remains wasted potential because rather than rewarding and encouraging play that fits with what we do anyway over time, it shoehorns very specific requirements into a small window in a way that turns WF into work. I haven't even bothered logging on since week two and I'm in no rush to return. I'm not going to have my game time dictated that heavily just to keep up with rewards when the old system rotated rewards through alerts and didn't close the door on gaining an item for months because you couldn't dedicate time to a specific grind week after week after week. Yes, this week may not be as bad as last and moving sewage runoff is probably a little less unhealthy for you than stagnant sewage runoff, but that doesn't make either refreshing.

People can try and put a positive spin on this, but until the system is improved, especially now that it's the replacement for alerts, I'm just not going to bother logging on to keep up with it. Honestly if this new treadmill keeps DE's numbers up because people are so worried about missing out that they'll take it, then I guess it's working, but I play games for fun and this design ain't fun.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

Extortion or not:

It's a pretty silly "challenge" alright. Nothing but a forced waste of resources. My first skip, no doubt.