Buried Debts: Hotfix 24.5.2

[-Bing-]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Quoting myself here to shed some light on this hot topic that is currently being discussed within this thread.

To be blunt, this is an exploit. The team here worked for months on creating a different kind of boss fight from the norm, and it was never intended for players to completely bypass phases of the Exploiter Orb. Going fast is fun, we totally get it. But going fast shouldn't sacrifice the hard work that has been made, or the proper intentions of phases/mechanics.

Another large part of this feedback is also the continued Matchmaking issues for the Exploiter Orb, that sometimes result in an inability to continue the fight. These Matchmaking issues are our current top priority to resolve ASAP.

Their hard work was well done but poorly implemented. The poor drop rate on ephemera, the ONLY reason to do the fight at all, rips all appreciation from you.

Look back at the history of video games, think of all the amazing boss fights, Sephiroth, Ruby Weapon, Abyss Watchers, Archon Priest, Soul or Cinders, come to my mind. 

This fight, even with the cheese, burned my friends and I out after 5 runs. That is not a good boss.

 

You and DE need to reevaluate what keeps players motivated.

[Nasheim]

Throwing canisters at the Exploiter during Phase 2 is a clever mechanic and a wonderful break from the "use Chroma, bring boomstick" meta infesting the Profit-Taker and Eidolon fights, but during Phase 1 it's a pain to aim the damn things at the constantly jerking and moving Exploiter.

Maybe just make the vents vulnerable to Heat damage? Or change the canister drop stations into power ups that allow our weapons to melt the frozen vents? Our weapons can already be modded to shoot acid, explosives, space plagues and so on, so I personally wouldn't look twice at being able to temporarily empower them with thermia.

Also, let me just express how happy I am that the Exploiter Orb has some good dialogue (I love the way she talks!) and just as importantly, that she actually talks instead of hissing and wheezing like the Profit-Taker. If she didn't have subtitles, I wouldn't know the Profit-Taker was actually saying something rather than making random staticky noises.

[Thundervision]

20 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Saying that "going fast is fun but it shouldn't sacrifice the team's hard work" is saying that you're knowingly and willingly sacrificing the enjoyment of millions of players on the altar of a boss fight designer's ego so that they don't have to face up to the fact that they made a bad boss fight. To be blunt, as game developers your job is to please your players, not yourselves. So please, tell your team to swallow their pride and revert the awful 'fix'.

Such pretentious ignorance, wow... Must be feeling real good spitting out toxic nonsense over, what, 2-4 minutes of extra gameplay? Oh dear, players these days...

[Queen.Luna.Tepes]

Can you guys fix a bug where if you are Mesa and using archguns then die, using 4th ability only slows you down. It doesn't drain energy or make you use regulators. I don't even have Mesa's Waltz....

[Cyclouros]

6 minutes ago, -Bing- said:

Their hard work was well done but poorly implemented. The poor drop rate on ephemera, the ONLY reason to do the fight at all, rips all appreciation from you.

Look back at the history of video games, think of all the amazing boss fights, Sephiroth, Ruby Weapon, Abyss Watchers, Archon Priest, Soul or Cinders, come to my mind. 

 

Some of them are difficult, some of them are easy - all of them are appreciated. The fanboys coming here can do well to understand that we never called for an "easy" fight (if anything, blowing all 4 vents at once was harder than the "intended" tactic)

[SordidDreams]

3 minutes ago, Thundervision said:

Such pretentious ignorance, wow... Must be feeling real good spitting out toxic nonsense over, what, 2-4 minutes of extra gameplay? Oh dear, players these days...

Don't worry, you'll understand when you're older.

[DisKorruptd]

17 hours ago, AIAS-5 said:

Thanks!

EDIT: One question though - will there be a Frame Figher Fragment for Hildryn any time? Doesn't seem like there's one around, Baruuk already missed out as well...

They should put the fragments for the plains/vallis frames in their respective open-world, like how the Fish statuettes and data bits are

[kgptzac]

18 minutes ago, Aenris said:

It seems [DE] intentions is to be accessible

It's a weird way to say "time-gated".

If it's meant to be accessible then Hildryn BP would not have been locked behind Vox Solaris, resulting a long wait and standing grind to new and returning players getting introduced to Fortuna late. 

If it's meant to be accessible then it would not require Thermia to spawn the boss, an event item that no pug is doing now. 

If it's meant to be accessible then players would easier find each other to do the boss, or the pre-requisite Thermia Fractures, via bounties like Eidolon and the Ghouls. 

If it's meant to be accessible then having a high dps veteran players would fasten the boss fights because god forbid now fashionframe requires grinding.

[Cyclouros]

2 minutes ago, kgptzac said:

It's a weird way to say "time-gated".

If it's meant to be accessible then Hildryn BP would not have been locked behind Vox Solaris, resulting a long wait and standing grind to new and returning players getting introduced to Fortuna late. 

 

Made availible week after it was purchasable with plat mind you.

[__Beowulf__]

hace 2 horas, [DE]Megan dijo:

Quoting myself here to shed some light on this hot topic that is currently being discussed within this thread.

As someone that makes games too, I can see the hard work, appreciate the mechanic and overall, enjoy a different type of boss fight, this is a step in the right direction, let us enjoy a battle with whatever warframe we want to use, and with our favorite weapon, instead of the forced meta-frame/boomstick
Many people forget to enjoy the game and focus only in get in, shoot the boss, get out, rinse and repeat, which make the game boring.

If anything, I suggest that in the second phase the boss spawn the little green spiders too, and/or maybe, make she use her blizzard to push the players away/make them slow down. Now try to throw the canister in the middle of the white blizzard!

Again, thank you guys and keep the good work.

[Cyclouros]

2 minutes ago, theANIMALtm said:

let us enjoy a battle with whatever warframe we want to use, and with our favorite weapon, instead of the forced meta-frame/boomstick

And what frames exactly besides the tankmeta is of any use in the fight as it is now?

[Rhundis]

I uh... Wow. Sensing a lot of negativity from this thread. Can we go less on the complaining and more on the "possibly make this better" route?

Just saying. Complaining certainly makes you feel better but in the end really accomplishes nothing.

Edit: and by make this better I mean constructive suggestions.

[Drachnyn]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb [DE]Megan:

To be blunt, this is an exploit. The team here worked for months on creating a different kind of boss fight from the norm, and it was never intended for players to completely bypass phases of the Exploiter Orb. Going fast is fun, we totally get it. But going fast shouldn't sacrifice the hard work that has been made, or the proper intentions of phases/mechanics.

This change also made every choice and variety in what frame to pick completely null. Nothing makes a difference anymore and while I do very much like that the fight introduces and uses it's own boss mechanic, the choice of which warframe to bring shouldnt be thrown out completely like it is with Exploiter (an ironic name in hindsight).

[Cyclouros]

5 minutes ago, Rhundis said:

I uh... Wow. Sensing a lot of negativity from this thread. Can we go less on the complaining and more on the "possibly make this better" route?

Just saying. Complaining certainly makes you feel better but in the end really accomplishes nothing.

Edit: and by make this better I mean constructive suggestions.

Well, then DE would have to scrap the whole fight and start from scratch.

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Quoting myself here to shed some light on this hot topic that is currently being discussed within this thread.

To be blunt, this is an exploit. The team here worked for months on creating a different kind of boss fight from the norm, and it was never intended for players to completely bypass phases of the Exploiter Orb. Going fast is fun, we totally get it. But going fast shouldn't sacrifice the hard work that has been made, or the proper intentions of phases/mechanics.

The skip didn't actually save much time because phase 1 is locked behind dialogue lines. People wanted to get past throwing a stone with 0 influence of our gear choice because that's not fun at all. I get the developers put long hours into fixing up the encounter, but it makes sense that players would rather skip to watching dialogues finish than throwing stones at a scripted object.

I still understand why it was fixed. You are right, it was an exploit. However, there's a reason people used it, and that information is great to help DE make the fight better.

[Skaleek]

2 hours ago, Genoscythe said:

While I undestand that this boss fight is supposed to be different, I still think it has a big flaw, which is the fact that no matter how good everything you grinded for in this game is, the fight remains exactly the same.

I'm sorry but i have to disagree. I have every piece of gear in the game (Forma'd, catalysted, etc), and I think a "gear agnostic" fight is exactly what Warframe needs. It doesn't stop new players or geared players from contributing equally. There are plenty of bosses (eidolons im looking at you) that are gear-gated. Having one that is not dependent on gear (especially as it is an event) is very welcome, in my opinion.

Also, if I didn't say this before, great work DE on the fight. I think you guys did a stellar job, and while i have issues with your drop tables/grind level i think that this boss fight was really well planned and executed. So bravo.

Also i love the new switch functionality that you put in (F button), with that change the new melee update is perfect for me. I think Steve and whoever else was part of it did an excellent job. Well done.

[Lythael]

1 hour ago, theANIMALtm said:

First of all, English is not my native language, that doesn't mean I should write in broken english, so I apologize for that, I will pay more attention next time.

Second, trying to disprove an argument pointing out a grammar typo is a cheap move, something shallow that a "kid" could do, because is the fastest way to "win" the argument, but, whatever, if that makes you feel bigger, good for you, yay!!

Third, I took the liberty to check your "feedback" , and I quote : " Did 4 almost perfect mid air shots that so the canister exploded in very close proximity to the vent but just cause the explosion was one pixel off it didn't melt the vent even by a bit.
You have to time your throws and shots perfectly.. and that oversized tick keeps twitching and spazing all the time."

Yesterday I enter the boss fight, 5 times, 3 solo, 2 with my brother, no problems whatsoever. We fail some throws, true, but that was human error, 5 battles in no more than 20 minutes each.

So I tell him about your "feedback" and he said that there are many variables, your rig, your internet connection, stupidity, autism.... anything can make you unable to shoot the canister in the right way, and I agree.
So, again, your "feedback", is nothing more than and whining from a spoiled brat that doesn't like the boss because is not the way he wants to be.

Nice now you resort to childish insults and personal attacks. I see i stuck a nerve.

Phase 1 has multipile problems, janky hitboxes and mid air explosion atop the vent not registering most of the time (especially for clients even if ping doesn't exceed 30ms) , people randomly getting kicked from the party when loading in a bug that was acknowledged and supposely fixed by DE but its not fixed (not fully anyways).

Aswell as after end of Phase 1 the door bugs out 50% times and never opens unless host disbands.

Problems that are reported multiple times across the board from various users a lot more credible than you.

But sure just cause you didn't play the boss fight enough time to even notice the problem or were lucky not to run into them that means everyone else who reported said problems and ways to improve the Phase 1 are "stupid" and "autistic" and its all their fault right? 

Ladies and gentlemen 

The royal highness theANIMALtm doesn't accept your pathetic bug reports and feedback.

They are all invalid cause he said so if you encounter those issues it means its your fault.

*sigh*

Excuse me who's the spoiled one again?

[(PSN)Crackle2012]

The back and forth arguing / disrespect flying around in this thread is just too much.

Being frustrated because something isn't working right is understandable, but please try to keep it respectful to DE as well as one another.

Thank you all in advance!  

[Skaleek]

15 minutes ago, Voltage said:

The skip didn't actually save much time because phase 1 is locked behind dialogue lines. People wanted to get past throwing a stone with 0 influence of our gear choice because that's not fun at all. I get the developers put long hours into fixing up the encounter, but it makes sense that players would rather skip to watching dialogues finish than throwing stones at a scripted object.

I still understand why it was fixed. You are right, it was an exploit. However, there's a reason people used it, and that information is great to help DE make the fight better.

Throwing stones at a scripted object is every shooter ever though. Replace stones with bullets, replace throwing with shooting (which is the same in this context, its just compensating for an arc and firing a launcher weapon). The whole game is about doing that, i don't think you can really fault the fight for having that mechanic in it. I'm really okay with our gear not having an impact on the boss fight, it gives everyone equal footing which is something i havent seen in a boss fight in Warframe, for a long time, if ever (Vay hek + Jordas Trial?) I mean the whole fight is effectively a "throw the canister" at the exploiter, with some sprinkled in Mobile Defense elements. I'm still of the opinion the fight is good and enjoyable, albeit a little long (especially when you have to do 9+ runs to get the 3 Hildryn pieces you want, yeah it happened).

I still think that if they sped up phase 2 a little bit the fight would be in a better place. The first phase doesn't take very much longer with a co-ordinated group of people.

[ravel1900]

The Door bug between Phase 1 and 2 kills me. I played 3 days without a single problem until your "hotfix" broke the game again. Now I'm waiting for another "hotfix" and meanwhile a lost a whole day of grinding...

 

[Cyclouros]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Crackle2012 said:

The back and forth arguing / disrespect flying around in this thread is just too much.

Being frustrated because something isn't working right is understandable, but please try to keep it respectful to DE as well as one another.

Thank you all in advance!  

You could start by removing posts that are only people coming into the thread to attack and insult anyone that isn't praising DE. Like that one person that used autism as a way to slander those he does not agree with.

[Mariquinto]

Love the boss fight. Huge improvement over previous boss fights.

I've run at about 10 times, the one time I ended in a group with an Octavia that skipped phase 1 it just felt flat.

But then again, I play for the journey, not the goal. Sweet loot is all good and fine, but the game play to get it has to be interesting. 

[SordidDreams]

44 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Throwing stones at a scripted object is every shooter ever though. Replace stones with bullets, replace throwing with shooting (which is the same in this context, its just compensating for an arc and firing a launcher weapon). The whole game is about doing that, i don't think you can really fault the fight for having that mechanic in it. I mean the whole fight is effectively a "throw the canister" at the exploiter, with some sprinkled in Mobile Defense elements. I'm still of the opinion the fight is good and enjoyable, albeit a little long (especially when you have to do 9+ runs to get the 3 Hildryn pieces you want, yeah it happened).

I still think that if they sped up phase 2 a little bit the fight would be in a better place. The first phase doesn't take very much longer with a co-ordinated group of people.

Nobody's faulting the fight for having the throwing mechanic, what people are faulting it for is having nothing but the throwing mechanic. Shooting stuff is not all there is to shooter games, the interesting part is learning how and where and with what to shoot for maximum effect. Hence the plethora of guns and mods in WF, they exist for you to experiment with and learn the best combinations and strategies. That's where the fun in video games comes from. DE has intentionally designed this boss fight so that there was nothing learnable about it, and when players found the one thing DE overlooked, DE patched it out. That's why everyone's mad, because with nothing learnable left in the fight, there's also no more fun to be had. All that's left is a chore that you do until you have the loot you want and then never again.

I do agree that speeding up phase 2 is a must. I'd have liked to see that even with the skip in place, without it it's nothing short of mandatory.

[Devz1]

I think the community's complaints about the Nova skip vs. DE's stance on the Exploiter fight is emblematic of one of the core issues of Warframe in its current state, (in my opinion). Many players want their Warframe to feel powerful and integral to enemy encounters, but DE finds ways to nerf them and make Warframe abilities basically pointless. Basically there's no point right now in Eidolons/Profit Taker to pick anything other than standard meta frames which all involve damage mitigation and weapon buffs and nothing else, so Nova being able to contribute to the fight with a Warframe Ability (!) was a pleasant surprise. The phase 1 skip wasn't how you intended it to be done, so you fixed it, that's understandable. Though in the future, continue working hard with the knowledge that we WANT to use our Warframe abilities to overcome challenges. 

Please DE, we have a wonderful cast of Warframes with unique abilities, but we never get to use them on anything outside of trash mobs. 

[hazZzard]

2 hours ago, Cyclouros said:

I have to ask... what games have you been playing pre-warframe?

Many - from shooters to probably all big mmorpgs. Not everything needs to be the same 🙂