Hildryn vs Titania

[SPplayer76]

Hildryn is allowed to benefit from Aviator during flight, Titania is not. WHY...

 

To put it more seriously, It was a conscious decision to make titania's flight unable to benefit from  Aviator. Yet now, much later, Hildryn comes along with a flight ability and that's ok. So here I am to ask what's up with the inconsistency? Is it because titania's is basically archwing? Is it really that big of a deal?

[CoreXCZ]

It shows that DE decided to not treat frames with flying ability equally and it doesn't surprise me cause it's another one of typical decision based on "DE logic". As someone who plays Titania, I am annoyed by the fact that Hildryn is getting special treatment in several areas, not just Aviator, but Shield Gating which was viable solution to already inferior shields on all Warframes. To add more, she's even more armored than Rhino, and he's supposed to be an armor behemoth. + Shield Pillage is a fine example of when you're taking ability of another frame (Mag's), improve it and instead of giving it back, it ends on new frame. So yeah, I view this frame as female macho and copycat which basically showed middle finger to Titania with Aviator, to Mag with Shield Pillage, to all frames with Shield Gating and totally to Rhino by having more armor despite having OP shielding.

DE literally created new problem, where old frames end in shadow of newer ones due to being inferior in most if not all areas.

Edited March 20, 2019 by CoreXCZ

[ELMINSTER]

I might be wrong but i feel like titania got a lot of evasion mitigating whole dmg, hildryn on other hand dont like gym and learned to soak and not evade ^^

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

10 minutes ago, ELMINSTER said:

I might be wrong but i feel like titania got a lot of evasion mitigating whole dmg, hildryn on other hand dont like gym and learned to soak and not evade ^^

Titanias reliance on evasion over something like Zephyrs 3 that just straight up redirects bullets is a terrible defense ability. 

[Neo3602]

2 minutes ago, ELMINSTER said:

I might be wrong but i feel like titania got a lot of evasion mitigating whole dmg, hildryn on other hand dont like gym and learned to soak and not evade ^^

This is my guess as well. Whne Titania is flying she has a lot smaller hit box, a 50% chance of evading enemy attacks which she can stack with the accuracy debuff from tribute, and her Razorflys which will draw enemy fire. And in comparison Hildryn is a big, slow moving target that stuns enemies who get too close and powers her flight and the rest of her abilities with her primary means of defense. Sure she is tankier than titania but while flying she has has no where near as may ways to mitigate damage as Titania does.  So that's probably why Hildryn can use Aviator and Titania can't.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, ELMINSTER said:

I might be wrong but i feel like titania got a lot of evasion mitigating whole dmg, hildryn on other hand dont like gym and learned to soak and not evade ^^

Reducing enemy accurate has never been an effective means of damage mitigation.

edit: hm, didn’t realize I posted that first response. Also is this really something worth laugh reacting too?

Edited March 20, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Sir_Carl]

Levitating tank vs floating stick

[Vahenir]

If anything this should have been the other way around, given how tanky Hildryn already is. I wonder if she also gets shot by anti air turrets and enemies in the open world maps, but I have a feeling that she doesn't have that problem either.

[Oreades]

I'm pretty sure Hildryn isn't also arbitrarily targeted with 100% chance to hit OP Anti Archwing weapons that will oneshot her through those 4k shields like Titania is either. 

[Oreades]

2 hours ago, Neo3602 said:

This is my guess as well. Whne Titania is flying she has a lot smaller hit box, a 50% chance of evading enemy attacks which she can stack with the accuracy debuff from tribute, and her Razorflys which will draw enemy fire. And in comparison Hildryn is a big, slow moving target that stuns enemies who get too close and powers her flight and the rest of her abilities with her primary means of defense. Sure she is tankier than titania but while flying she has has no where near as may ways to mitigate damage as Titania does.  So that's probably why Hildryn can use Aviator and Titania can't.

To be fair it's not like it would be OP on Titania and Titania only really has one way to mitigate damage. Not being hit by bullets and that's pure RNG. You can have a 98% chance to "dodge" and still get oneshot by the first bullet a corpus fires at you because her armor is tissuepaper. 

Personally speaking 40% damage reduction for the price of a mod slot seems like a fair trade off for a frame who's only survivability comes from praying you never get hit. Good luck with that when the open world Anti Archwing weapons seem to have a literal 100% chance to hit, so the second you notice all your razorflies are gone you're probably already dead. But with it you might actually be able to take two or three normal shots before you get yeet out of existance. 

Considdering how many frames have some extensive damage reduction up to and including 90% just with their abilities, it hardly seems a big ask. 

Now as to why it doesn't work, my guess would be it has something to do with the fact that Titanias Pixie form is being seen as the game as AW and therefor isn't being counted as flying and has never been addressed because Titania is super low priority when it comes to fixes and QoL. Coupled with the exact sentiment that "why does she even need it when she has a 50% dodge" so it's just never happened. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Oreades

[[DE]Rebecca]

On 2019-03-19 at 8:25 PM, Neo3602 said:

This is my guess as well. Whne Titania is flying she has a lot smaller hit box, a 50% chance of evading enemy attacks which she can stack with the accuracy debuff from tribute, and her Razorflys which will draw enemy fire. And in comparison Hildryn is a big, slow moving target that stuns enemies who get too close and powers her flight and the rest of her abilities with her primary means of defense. Sure she is tankier than titania but while flying she has has no where near as may ways to mitigate damage as Titania does.  So that's probably why Hildryn can use Aviator and Titania can't.

This is largely true, but we're going to try adding Aviator to Razorwing by popular demnd soon.

[JackHargreav]

On 2019-03-20 at 1:27 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Reducing enemy accurate has never been an effective means of damage mitigation.

edit: hm, didn’t realize I posted that first response. Also is this really something worth laugh reacting too?

I'm with you on this one. Aim reduction is basically just rng based defense.

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

6 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is largely true, but we're going to try adding Aviator to Razorwing by popular demnd soon.

I think this is the first time I've seen someone from de (except a mod) reply on this forum.

 

Wow.

 

Bravo!

 

[JackHargreav]

On 2019-03-20 at 1:25 AM, Neo3602 said:

This is my guess as well. Whne Titania is flying she has a lot smaller hit box, a 50% chance of evading enemy attacks which she can stack with the accuracy debuff from tribute, and her Razorflys which will draw enemy fire. And in comparison Hildryn is a big, slow moving target that stuns enemies who get too close and powers her flight and the rest of her abilities with her primary means of defense. Sure she is tankier than titania but while flying she has has no where near as may ways to mitigate damage as Titania does.  So that's probably why Hildryn can use Aviator and Titania can't.

It doesn't stack. It never stacked. I don't know where you got this idea from.

[JackHargreav]

On 2019-03-20 at 2:39 AM, Vahenir said:

I wonder if she also gets shot by anti air turrets and enemies in the open world maps, but I have a feeling that she doesn't have that problem either.

No she doesn't. 😕 Tried it out in Vallis and the turrets ignored me completely.

[kgptzac]

Titania should benefit more from a in-depth rework.  Myself, like many other players, mod her for her 4, and her other three skills become quite useless.  This is too much "one trick pony", and should be changed so more synergy should be there for her kit.

[kyori]

32 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is largely true, but we're going to try adding Aviator to Razorwing by popular demnd soon.

Hi-jack a bit. Can we return to the old days where frames' power are not just about stealing energy, health etc? It seems you guys went bonkers after community outcry of frame powers not having synergy and then suddenly newer frames we always see these steal energy, health or hurt yourself for more energy, health etc.

[Oreades]

45 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is largely true, but we're going to try adding Aviator to Razorwing by popular demnd soon.

Has anyone ever told you, you're my hero? You're the Aviator beneath my wings ❤️

Course now I'm going to have to struggle between equipping Peculiar Bloom (which is hilarious) or Aviator.

[Neo3602]

54 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

It doesn't stack. It never stacked. I don't know where you got this idea from.

When I was looking Titania's page on the Warframe wiki as I was making my post I didn't see anything that said that the evasion Razorwing and the enemy accuracy debuff didn't stack so I assumed that they did.

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is largely true, but we're going to try adding Aviator to Razorwing by popular demnd soon.

I never expected to have one my posts quoted by [DE]Rebecca.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Neo3602

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

On 2019-03-19 at 7:59 PM, CoreXCZ said:

I am annoyed by the fact that Hildryn is getting special treatment in several areas, not just Aviator, but Shield Gating which was viable solution to already inferior shields on all Warframes.

Looks like someone hasn't been paying attention. They've already explained that Hildryn is a test for future Shield Gating.

 

On 2019-03-19 at 7:59 PM, CoreXCZ said:

To add more, she's even more armored than Rhino, and he's supposed to be an armor behemoth. + Shield Pillage is a fine example of when you're taking ability of another frame (Mag's), improve it and instead of giving it back, it ends on new frame. So yeah, I view this frame as female macho and copycat which basically showed middle finger to Titania with Aviator, to Mag with Shield Pillage, to all frames with Shield Gating and totally to Rhino by having more armor despite having OP shielding.

Rhino is still the tanking Frame though. Hildryn needs the armor to survive if toxin and slash gets through her shields. Don't know why you bought that up.

As for Mag, she restores shields faster and deals burst damage to enemies in range greater than that of Hildryn's. And the augment makes it way better.

You clearly don't understand the design philosophy of Hildryn at all.

[JackHargreav]

1 minute ago, Neo3602 said:

When I was looking Titania's page on the Warframe wiki as I was making my post I didn't see anything that said that the evasion Razorwing and the enemy accuracy debuff didn't stack so I assumed that they did.

Unfortunately you can't stack them. I tried to activate Tribute and than Razor Wing but it was still saying 50% evasion. Many ppl are still pissed because of this and the fact that you can't use power strength to make evasion higher.

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is largely true, but we're going to try adding Aviator to Razorwing by popular demnd soon.

While you're adding aviator to razorwing any chance you can fix missiles 100% tracking titania in razorwing while on PoE and OV, not to mention during the orb mother fight. 

She's supposed to have innate reduced enemy accuracy but she seemed to lose that 'passive' before fortuna came out, she's basically seen as an archwing but she doesn't have any of the avoidance options that archwings have meaning we can't avoid the missiles that are locked on and we don't get any warnings like archwing either. 

 

[RampagingJho]

Huzzah! Now she can survive more than one unlucky hit. I like some of Titanias kit but a lot of it is just to unreliable to use. The distract enemies 3 is nice in concept, but in execution doesn't seem to work well. The explosion is only OK for damage too. I like the one and its a fine CC its her 2 that it tricky though. Certain enemy types give you certain buffs. I just wish the cast time wasn't so long. 

[Toppien]

Zephyr: am i a joke to you?

[Mu_Gera]

On 2019-03-19 at 8:25 PM, Neo3602 said:

This is my guess as well. Whne Titania is flying she has a lot smaller hit box, a 50% chance of evading enemy attacks which she can stack with the accuracy debuff from tribute, and her Razorflys which will draw enemy fire. 

Lemme tell you that nearly none of that matters except for the evasion. Enemies well laser your butterflies down and then you half the time no problem, not including stray shots. Personally I don't think 40% dr is gonna do anything since dr only gets good at like 60-70% and above but better to have the option than not.