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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback


SilverBones
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1. Complete Sortie 5 times per week is way too much. It should be turned into a two week mission or have it reduced to 3 times max. You only get like 2 days off from sortie because you have other things to do. Also this doesn't include half a week missed to be able to catch up due to not being on.

2. 60 min Kuva survival needs to be reduced to 40 min. Any Survival missions should be reduced to 40 min max because it takes you to lvl 100+ which most players can't do without potatoed weapons or frames. 1 hour is too long.

3. Rare mine and Rare fishing challenge needs to include uncommon. There needs to be a specification of rare resources on codex. New players cannot mine rare ores in Cetus due to being locked behind standing requirements. Same with fishes in Cetus.

Edited by Makemap
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Unsure if anyone else has mentioned it, but instead of doing the "60 min survival", potentially break it down more so into a "Complete X number of C rotations with modifier (eg, the no life support activated)", meaning it can be completed across multiple runs, or in the single run, without the possibility of someone ruining the entire run for the rest of the party (eg, 55+ mins in triggering life support, voiding the entire hour of progress for the rest of the group) Unsure if anyone else has mentioned it, but instead of doing the "60 min survival", potentially break it down more so into a "Complete X number of C rotations with modifier (eg, the no life support activated)", meaning it can be completed across multiple runs, or in the single run, without the possibility of someone ruining the entire run for the rest of the party (eg, 55+ mins in triggering life support, voiding the entire hour of progress for the rest of the group)

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3 minutes ago, Makemap said:

1. Complete Sortie 5 times per week is way too much. It should be turned into a two week mission or have it reduced to 3 times max. You only get like 2 days off from sortie because you have other things to do. Also this doesn't include half a week to be able to catch up due to not being on.

2. 60 min Kuva survival needs to be reduced to 40 min. Any Survival missions should be reduced to 40 min max because it takes you to lvl 100+ which most players can't do without potatoed weapons or frames. 1 hour is too long.

3. Rare mine and Rare fishing challenge needs to include uncommon. There needs to be a specification of rare resources on codex. New players cannot mine rare ores in Cetus due to being locked behind standing requirements. Same with fishes in Cetus.

if u log on before they change, u can literally do sorties back to back, out of 7 days u have to log on and do 40 mins of sorties for 5 days, witch will complete meany other challenges, not all elite missions need to be done to get to 30 ether 

a large amount of players dont do sorties, and half of those that do them cant even complete them by themselves 

Edited by (PS4)Spider_Enigma
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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

if u log on before they change, u can literally do sorties back to back, out of 7 days u have to log on and do 40 mins of sorties, witch will complete meany other challenges, not all elite missions need to be done to get to 30

What if you are on vacation or have no time to log on for 3 days. It is guarantee miss because you are force to play everyday. Sortie can't be done multiple times a day.

Edited by Makemap
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the nightwave is a great step to get more active in the game and do stuff you have forgotten or you dont know its there, you get to play the game and get great stuff,  i agree on giving more options and more weeklies to the players, give more for everyone , give easy tasks , give hard tasks , give very challenging tasks. anyone can say give more or give less always someone will complain about something. listen only to constructive critisism that is based not to personal opinions but on game facts. this is boring is not an option, for me its not boring for you it is. So boring is not a term to be consider or worth considering. Just give more options to players with more choices in the weeklies so any skill can get their piece of the pie. Its for sure that high skill will always preveil so anything you give to high skill players will be consumed asap. For example more eidolos and orbs in weeklies. Spy missions. Fast missions time limits. nightmare modes, etc

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I only started playing Warframe about 4 months ago (a few weeks before Baruuk released iirc), but at this point I'm able to comfortably do sorties and arbitrations, so I hope I'm in a good position to provide feedback as someone for whom the elite weeklies are aimed at but who still remembers what being a newbie was like under the old alerts system. Overall, I like the concept; I like the sense of agency of being able to work towards what I want instead of waiting for my gaming schedule to align with the right alert. I like that I'm being encouraged to try out stuff that I otherwise wouldn't have. I have issues with the rate of progression, but these are just numbers and numbers are much easier to tweak.

Wolf creds/newbie items

A lot of people are saying that newbies could get stuff faster under the old alerts system, but this is offset by the sheer randomness of the alerts. For example, in terms of auras, I was able to get ~60% of the alert auras pretty quickly, but then it became a frustrating waiting game for the last few, including a few important ones like Corrosive Projection and Loot Detector. And in terms of potatoes, I only got maybe 2 potatoes total under the old system after 4 months, not counting guaranteed ones like Gift of the Lotus, because so many of them would pop up while I was at work. With Nightwave, as long as I hit rank 11 and buy another potato with wolf creds, I'll already have broken even.

Currently, the cost of potatoes seems high, but I'm willing to reserve judgement to the end of season to see how many wolf creds people earn on average. Nitain seems reasonably priced, seeing how most newbie friendly weapons don't require it. Those would be fine, if wolf creds were only used for potatoes and nitain. However, the cost of auras is definitely too high, considering that they're competing with potatoes and nitain for creds, and Nightwave is delaying a new player's first aura by far too much. A bad aura now is much more important than an aura of your choice weeks down the line for a new player, considering that they need all the modding capacity they can get. Either make auras much cheaper, or better yet include auras alongside tier rewards (so a tier reward could become 50 wolf creds plus an aura of your choice, for example). This is essentially invisible to vets, but super important for newbies. Ideally, you should be able to earn most of the auras within a full ~3-month Nightwave season, which I think is a reasonable ask. In fact, I think most of the one-time-use items from the old alerts (auras, helmets, weapons) should either cost much less wolf creds or be attainable separately from wolf creds. Currently it feels like you need to "do your homework" and complete your collection of auras, weapons and helmets before buying consumables.

Also, it will be nice to have smaller injections of wolf creds besides the bigger 50s at certain tiers. Maybe have a couple creds for every weekly, or 10 cred for every tier, just to give a more consistent sense of progression and alleviate that feeling of "I just need 5 more cred to buy that thing, but the next wolf cred tier is 2 weeks away".

Challenges

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I actually like most of the challenges thus far. I like the idea of incentivising players to try parts of the game they've never tried before or haven't tried in a long time. For example, I had only recently started doing teralyst hunts, but the hydrolyst challenge pushed me into dipping my toes into tricaps, and now I do 2x3s in public games semi-regularly. That was the ideal scenario, where I was 90% of the way there and the challenge gave me the nerve to actually do it, and it will be good to give new players something to work towards rather than shy away whenever they see something foreign in the elite weeklies. I suggest that elite weeklies be made to last an entire season, so that newbies have something to work towards. After all, seeing "complete a sortie by the end of the season" instead of "by the end of the week" is more aspirational than soul-crushing.

Also, there's a constant sense of anxiety within the community right now because people aren't sure whether they can hit max rank given their current Nightwave progression. There's constant argument between "I don't want to feel pressured by challenges that I hate/can't do at my current level" and "if you don't like it then just skip it, you don't need everything to get rank 30". Honestly, I can't give feedback regarding whether the Nightwave standing rewards should be increased or not because even I don't know exactly how much I could theoretically skip right now. I think having greater clarity for players to make their own choices should be the top priority. Maybe have a weekly quota bar that says that if you can hit this amount weekly, then you'll be guaranteed to reach max rank, or have a class of easier challenges called "staples" that will guarantee rank 30, and then have all other challenges be bonuses.

Rewards

I think most of the rewards from the tiers are pretty cool and interesting. Weapon/Warframe slots, forma and potatoes are always welcome, especially for new players. 20k kuva is a nice meaty chunk to get, whether or not you usually dabble in kuva farming. The weapon augment mods look amazing, and are honestly what I'm most looking forward to right now. And all the wolf-themed cosmetics seem great too. However right now, as I mentioned before, people feel like it's rank 30 or bust. This feeling might be alleviated somewhat if the current 30 ranks were split up into more manageable chunks. Maybe take the 3 most iconic event-themed items (maybe the armour, syandana and wolf howl emote for this season) and let players choose between them at ranks 10, 20 and 30. In a similar vein we could also let players choose between one of the weapon augments at ranks 9, 19 and 29 (for example). That way, players can set smaller goals for themselves rather than being daunted by the sheer climb from 0 to 30, and players who are either too busy or too new to the game can still get something uniquely seasonal out of the season.

 

Overall, in spite of my criticisms, I feel that Nightwave sets up a solid foundation to replace alerts in the future, but it's not where it needs to be right now, especially for new players. In time, with enough number tweaking, I could see it becoming great, but as of right now I think that the new player experience is worse right now than it was with the old alerts. For that reason, I'm looking forward to season 2.

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13 minutes ago, Makemap said:

What if you are on vacation or have no time to log on for 3 days. It is guarantee miss because you are force to play everyday. Sortie can't be done multiple times a day.

I would say this is a  VERY valid point. People who don't play during vacation periods or for college students, exam periods (who need to study) will effectively be denied access to the later stages of ranks. It's in some ways a very exclusionist type of system, but whereas you missed one alert you were watching for one day, this costs you weeks worth of grind if your real life obligations cut you short from reaching whatever rank award you were hoping for.

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I'm enjoying the Nightwave challenges. I'm not that a veteran player or a high level.

I guess only have few suggestions.

1. To add 1 or 2 more daily challenge. Everytime I finish a daily task, it feels anticlimatic. Don't get me wrong. I know there are a lot things to do for a day (Daily Syndicates, Sorties, etc.) It's just that I'm so stoked or hooked with the Nightwave tier rewards I'd like to do more. (setting aside the weekly and elites) It kinda feels empty that you can do no more after finishing the daily challenge but to hope you encounter more Fugitives in your missions while waiting for a new daily.

2. To have a degree or level for one challenge. Let's say the 5 Sortie weekly challenge. Not all can do that since some only have two days a week to play. Suggesting to make a minimum of 2 sortie to complete and earn the standing. Then 5 sortie will give more reward like a few wolf creds or additional standings. Like the endurance challenge. Complete a 30min run. Then additional reward if completed an hour.

 

By the way, for this week's elite, I accidentally completed the "Finish an extermination without being seen." random squad do the killing while I was lagging behind. Awesome. 😄

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40 minutes ago, Makemap said:

1. Complete Sortie 5 times per week is way too much. It should be turned into a two week mission or have it reduced to 3 times max. You only get like 2 days off from sortie because you have other things to do. Also this doesn't include half a week missed to be able to catch up due to not being on.

Fair enough. 5x is really a pain although it just takes about 20 mins a day.

40 minutes ago, Makemap said:

2. 60 min Kuva survival needs to be reduced to 40 min. Any Survival missions should be reduced to 40 min max because it takes you to lvl 100+ which most players can't do without potatoed weapons or frames. 1 hour is too long.

You shouldn't be bringing guns with no catalysts or frames with no reactor to long survivals. It's generally not nice if you end up being baggage. You should be using stuff that is near max for these, or play the Limbo and you get to use lousier weapons.

That being said, this is not completely invalid, but the main issue is with possible Host Migration.

43 minutes ago, Makemap said:

3. Rare mine and Rare fishing challenge needs to include uncommon. There needs to be a specification of rare resources on codex. New players cannot mine rare ores in Cetus due to being locked behind standing requirements. Same with fishes in Cetus.

The sunspot drill in Fortuna works for Cetus rares. There is no real reason to get Nosam cutters, actually.

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The rep and wolf cred system seem disconnected. Despite them being earned from the same place. Might be a good idea to tie these two systems together in a more coherent way. 

Also the problem with the alert system was that it was the only way to get potatoes and such. The nightwave system is good for having a consistent method for working towards them. However the alerts had a place for new players. I think both systems could exist simultaneously. 

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I'm thoroughly enjoying nightwave, I think it's a great addition to the game. It gives me a direction when I play after work instead of doing the usual Sortie, Rep, Kuva then repeat next day.

A few improvements that could be made in my opinion would be that the things that you can purchase with wolf creds is a bit underwhelming to more veteran players. The only real useful thing would be potatoes. The ayatan challenge wasn't too bad the first week there but if it gets run again anytime soon I dont think Id be able to complete it, the drop rate for amber stars is too low and no one is selling them incase the challenge comes up again.

I really like the rewards for the rankings, the mods, kuva, forma, slots, armour are all really practical, I know i will for sure be working my hardest to get that armour bundle. 

Just wanted to say thank you DE, Warframe has been my go to game for the past two years and you guys have not disappointed with content, I've never been so in love with a video game before

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49 minutes ago, AKTKWNG said:

Maybe take the 3 most iconic event-themed items (maybe the armour, syandana and wolf howl emote for this season) and let players choose between them at ranks 10, 20 and 30. In a similar vein we could also let players choose between one of the weapon augments at ranks 9, 19 and 29 (for example). That way, players can set smaller goals for themselves rather than being daunted by the sheer climb from 0 to 30, and players who are either too busy or too new to the game can still get something uniquely seasonal out of the season

This is a great suggestion! Never woulda thought of that

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I kind of like the idea of the Nightwave system, though fixes should be added. The harder difficulty missions should remain and Devs should actually add longer survival runs, because there "are" players who do these vs those who are unable to do them due to life choices; they shouldn't be punished for that. So; 

  1. Keep Survival runs with no Life Support from, at least, 20-30 minutes with 1,500 (20 Minutes) or 2000 (30 Minutes) rep; this should increase depending on the difficulty of Survival Missions, Saturn Vs Kuva, Vs Void, etc.
  2. Keep Survival at or above 1 hour - 2 hours with 5000 -7000 rep; this should increase depending on the difficulty of Survival Missions, Saturn Vs Kuva, Vs Void, etc.
  3. Keep Defense at 10 Waves minimal 2000 rep; this should increase depending on the difficulty of Defense Missions, Earth, Mars etc.
  4. Keep Defense at 30 -40 Waves minimal 6000 rep; this should increase depending on the difficulty of Defense Missions, Earth, Mars etc.
  5. Interception 2 waves for 1,000 rep or 10 waves + , maybe a limit (20) with 8000 rep; this should increase depending on the difficulty of Interception Missions.

So forth should be fix with other missions adding in more missions for daily rewards for Archwing, gathering on PoE, or Venus, or doing other things such as getting "Nitan" from missions, Extraction missions, Extractor for # of planets, killing X amount of corpus or etc. What players are being rewarded from at the shop they already have due to their time in Warframe, so adding unique ones for Veteran players and keep some for newer ones balance it out such as newer mods, unique fashion frame, newer weapons, relics, etc. Also, keep the Sorti mission the way it is. 

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+ Nightwave has gotten me to play mission types and gameplay I don't otherwise do.

+ Most of the challenges get completed while just playing as I usually do.

+ Challenges are clear in describing what is required and you get feedback on progress in mission.

- RNG based challenges. Example: slot X amount of ayatan sculptures, if you don't keep a stockpile it can take you hours to get the necessary amount of sculptures.

- Time sensitive challenges. Example: capture X amount of Eidolons, if your play window does not match with Plains of Exile night time you won't get to complete these.

- Long non-stop challenges. Example: 60 minute survival essentially has you sit in one tile, so as not to break the spawns, with a metasquad while watching entertainment on second display.

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I think the Nightwave system is a great addition to the game and much more interesting than the older alert system. It has encouraged me to check out parts of the game I had been neglecting until now such as the PoE and the Vallis, as well as getting clan members to help show me some of the other things I hadn't tried like Sorties and Kuva Survival.

However, I have felt these first two weeks a particular grind for me as a relatively new player (MR10) as I've needed to unlock certain things to try and get as much standing as I can so I don't miss out on any rewards. I'm particularly concerned if there is a week were I am too busy with IRL things that I may fall too far behind. I think adding in an additional 2-3 weekly missions for 3000 rep would be beneficial for people to not feel so pressured to get most things done every week for 10 weeks straight. Also adding in some extra Wolf Cred rewards would be beneficial. So far I've been hesitant to spend any as I don't know how much I'll earn over the 10 week period and don't want to spend it on something and realise later that I need something else.

Overall though, I've been having heaps of fun with Nightwave and hope the system sticks around.

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Have two options that essentially boil down to "longer group-based content" and "Shorter session time solo mode" and let the players choose which experience they would like to play for that week.

I gotta say I really enjoyed the 60 minute survivals and the play with friends missions gave me another good reason to be like "hey friend lets do this mission together!"

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First of all i find nightwave to be an amazing System it gives you stuff to do and makes you play gamemodes you dont do often. 

In response to the survival acts i think that these are good additons to nightwave because for me at least it was challenging and that was fun. Making a build for an Endurance run was fun to do and i think you should keep it.

elite weekly Acts should be challenging and this is a good step in the right Direction. If you as a Player do not like to do long survivals than don‘t do it

it‘s as simple as that you do not have to do all challenges to get to Tier 30.

Edited by SirLuther
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Quick idea that may have already been said but I'm not searching this whole thread for it:

Have choices for challenges.

For example: right now there are 3 elite weekly challenges, but what if there were 6 and only 3 of them count towards ranking up? This would help address the fact that some of the challenges that people hate are beloved by others (like endurance runs). Also, it would help keep elite challenges 'elite' since different forms of difficulty could be represented so people don't feel like they're missing out if a particular challenge is too grindy for them. Also, the challenges mentioned, like ayatan stuff, could still exist without a problem since you could get the standing from other challenges if you have problems getting sculptures, or whatever the challenge is.

And one other criticism that is likely common: wolf cred is obtained far too infrequently. there needs to be a more consistent source of cred. 50 at a time at a few select ranks makes the cred store feel almost unusable. 

(maybe make the additional challenges in my given scenario award cred instead of standing?)

Edited by (XB1)ThcotMalkinthon
added thing at end
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Two things:

Wolf credits needs to be distributed in a more frequent fashion, perhaps every standing level or have them drop from the Wolf and his minions. For the sake of new players this needs to happen because as it stands them being able to get the items is now going to take longer than it did before with RNG alerts.

Second thing is the Wolf needs to spawn more frequently or become a guaranteed spawn perhaps after capturing a certain amount of his underlings. I have not had him spawn once after quite a few hours of play. 

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Let me be clear- I really enjoy warframe, its a great game and I have happily invested quite a bit of time and money in it since becoming apart of this great community. However, I have honestly found the Nightwave series to be extremely frustrating to play and the logic behind the system frustrating. What I've found has been provided with these weeklies and their often problematic time sensitive requirements is a 10 week long temp job with out a road map. I think it would be helpful to consider having all challenges for the ten week period available from the beginning and then work with the community to tweak issues here and there rather than dropping a new framework of challenges every week.

Surprises can be nice at first but too much cake can be bad thing. I for one do not like checking in on a monday or sunday to find a challenge that literally demands a daily portion of my life for the next week (time is money, and depending on how you want to see it that is ALOT of money) - I understand that part of this might be a ploy to increase player count but warframe is not competitive - unlike the typical more common version battle pass model that is being applied here. The variables that a player must consider for a BR game(apex, blackout, fortnite, etc) are far smaller than the large expansive content of a game like warframe and tend to be particularly limited to instances of "did I win or not" with rewards and tiers being given to the player or players accordingly.

Following this logic every match within these mentioned games will net you a reward or push you closer to unlocking a new tier, and so on and so forth. The equivalent of this system isn't currently being applied to the Nightwave mission structure and I find that therein lies its biggest problem. Warframe does not typically dictate  a "right" way in which its player base must engage and for myself and I imagine many others it is part of that which makes it so appealing. I don't understand why Nightwave shouldn't just be formatted to allow players to gain rewards for playing the game in whatever manner they typically do. If a player really enjoys playing spy missions as an Ash or Loki why not reward them for their playstyle, rather than forcing them to learn to main a nekros in an hour long survival. To me that just sounds like work, not a challenge and certainly not fun. That being said I do find that there is a lot of potential in this battle pass model, but I think it needs to be tailored to fit the beautiful diverse network of people who play this game. Thanks for reading. 

 

Best,

Oren Gruffs

Edited by (NSW)Oren_Gruffs
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Along with most of the stuff already mentioned, another way to earn the cred or have more intervals to earn cred throughout the ranks, cuz boy is it slow and far in-between.

 

Either way, love the whole late night radio vibe put on for something as simple as a list of challenges and can't wait to see how things span out from here.

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System is pretty solid as is, there's enough wiggle room to skip stuff that looks awful (perfect hunts and long survivals) and still get the rewards, but that's probably not obvious to a lot of people and they feel twitchy about skipping stuff because they don't want to miss that shiny forma.  If there was some good clear way to show that you've gotten X standing out of Y possible for the week and the series AND show how much is still possible in following weeks so you can tell that you're still on target it might help.  Challenge variety is great though - I'd skipped Lua puzzles forever and that was fun.  I skipped the 60m survival but thought it was a good idea even if it was probably too long.  Doing stuff with friends/clan had gotten me to meet some new folks. 

I get how the system isn't totally friendly for newer players who don't have access to a bunch of stuff, so maybe there can be an alternative method/weekly alerts for getting build necessities like nitain that are available to everyone.  Or just make it a planet drop.

Also agreed on wolf spawning, it'd be cool if frequency was tied to captures.  As it stands I still haven't seen him and probably never will.

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