Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[(PSN)nating51]

21 minutes ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

Guys wouldn't be the easiest solution to just remove the Time Gate for the single seasons to end?

I definitely agree. Maybe they could block the access to next season until the player has completed the previous one.

[(XBOX)Rufnax]

are you serious or are you trolling? I highly explained that I do not have the time to finish that 60% and the only argument you are bringing is this?

Dude seriously please just add helpful comments. Why not extend the time frame given for players that need it? Any downside for you with that? No? Then please just hold your comment for yourself mate. I don't want to attack somebody here but comments like that are the problem why people fight so much about nightwave currently. There is no actual feedback in your comment. Just the typical "just play more" nonsense. So please just be quiet when you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation.

[(XBOX)Rufnax]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb (PS4)nating51:

I definitely agree. Maybe they could block the access to next season until the player has completed the previous one.

not even sure about that. Just for example when a player is absolutely not intrested in the rewards that one specific season provides he could just move to the next season when it started without finishing the current one and grinding for stuff he doesn't have interest in. No need for a "block" till you finished one season in my opinion or? 

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

are you serious or are you trolling? I highly explained that I do not have the time to finish that 60% and the only argument you are bringing is this?

Dude seriously please just add helpful comments. Why not extend the time frame given for players that need it? Any downside for you with that? No? Then please just hold your comment for yourself mate. I don't want to attack somebody here but comments like that are the problem why people fight so much about nightwave currently. There is no actual feedback in your comment. Just the typical "just play more" nonsense. So please just be quiet when you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation.

The time frame is fine. Why not extend the time frame and have them overlap? Because that means more work for DE. Bigger updates for Warframe to cover the extra content. And what happens in 2 years when there are 12 different Nightwatch events running because people who don't have the time want all the stuff? How many bugs and glitches will be created by such a convuluted mess?

One of the things I believe people are doing is looking at each week, seeing they missed challenges and thinking "It's not fair I'm not going to make it," Rather than looking at how many weeks are left and how far they have progressed so far. Remember, the Nightwave seasons are designed so that those who do everything can prestige when they hit 30. 

But basically, the thing is, if you don't have time to do 60% then you don't deserve to get the level 30 rewards.

[(PSN)nating51]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

But basically, the thing is, if you don't have time to do 60% then you don't deserve to get the level 30 rewards.

Seriously? On which basis? I have 2k hours on WF, stopped for months sometimes, 'cause of real life issues (JOB?) or simply other stuff to do, and 'till now I got all i need on WF, nice gaming experience and all. Now, I can imagine if I'll miss a month on this crap of a time gated system, I probably won't reach the 60% of the acts accomplished...and you are stating that I don't *deserve* to get level 30 rewards 'cause I have a life? C'mon man, that's a pretty toxic attitude to this game to me...

Edited March 19, 2019 by (PS4)nating51

[(XBOX)Rufnax]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Tatakai no Kami:

Because that means more work for DE. Bigger updates for Warframe to cover the extra content. 

- please explain to me how the update package will be bigger just because there are different rewards and cosmetics in the tier system. Sorry but even when I understand your intention here I highly doubt that this will blow up any update package system with a noticable data amount. As mentioned other game developers have sucessfully managed to run individual tier systems without blowing up the update size.

And what happens in 2 years when there are 12 different Nightwatch events running because people who don't have the time want all the stuff? How many bugs and glitches will be created by such a convuluted mess?

- also doubt that as the rewards and challenges do not involve new things to do. It's unlikely that you will encounter more bugs in a task like "kill 1500 enemies" or because another player has another challenge active. That's just a counter for a statistic that the Game has anyway about your progress. I could be wrong sure but I highly doubt that this will increase the amount of bugs in the game. But I would love to see a statement from an actual Warframe DEV about this. When they agree with you I would count this as an argument. But for the moment this is just an assumption. So not a counter argument for my idea.

But basically, the thing is, if you don't have time to do 60% then you don't deserve to get the level 30 rewards.

- I am not sure if DE really wants to loose on alot of the casual player because DE thinks they don't deserve the rewards. They are a company and should therefore be interested in the solution that is best for the whole palyer base. Where is the problem with a more fair and balanced solution for everyone. As said I don't want to take anything from the Hardcore Players with my idea. So I think that everyone should have the possibility to get the rewards.

 

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

Just now, (PS4)nating51 said:

Seriously? On what basis? I have 2k hours on WF, stopped for months sometimes, cause of real life issues (JOB?) or simply other stuff to do and 'till now I get all i need on WF, nice gaming experience and all. Now, I can imagine if I'll miss a month on this crap of a time gated system, I probably won't reach the 60% of the acts accomplished...and you are stating that I don't *deserve* to get level 30 rewards 'cause I have a life? C'mon man, that's a pretty toxic attitude to this game to me...

Simple. On the basis of if you're not doing the challenges, why should you get the rewards that the people who are doing the challenges are earning? The rewards are earned, Even if the challenges are sometimes not actually challenges like the Modular item and Forma ones this week.

I work 12-hour shifts, Work is short staffed right now so I'm working extra shifts, But I am still managing to easily do the majority of the challenges in an hour to an hour and a half each day.

[(XBOX)Rufnax]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Tatakai no Kami:

Simple. On the basis of if you're not doing the challenges, why should you get the rewards that the people who are doing the challenges are earning? The rewards are earned, Even if the challenges are sometimes not actually challenges like the Modular item and Forma ones this week.

I work 12-hour shifts, Work is short staffed right now so I'm working extra shifts, But I am still managing to easily do the majority of the challenges in an hour to an hour and a half each day.

that's just the old "I can do it so you can do it as well" argument and that is just a false assumption.

I also do not understand why you arguing about an idea to improve the game for casuals that would not even effect you in anyway. But as you are not personally affected by the situiation please just think about the following scenario:

Just think that maybe you would have a car accident and you broke your leg and therefor need to be in a hospital for 6 weeks (I know that this is a long time for a broken leg but the point is clear I think). In the hospital you are not able to game the whole time.

After you come back home you now have two options:

1. all your progess is lost and you didn't get the change for the reward you already put alot of work in before your accident

2. you can continue your own grind at the point where you have left and can get the stuff that you wanted.

What would you prefer? And also then just think that anybody would just say to you. Mmmh sorry man..you broke your leg (or your mother is ill) so you didn't invested the time and so you don't "deserver" the rewards. Shounds S#&$ty doesn't it?

Edited March 19, 2019 by (XB1)Rufnax

[(PSN)nating51]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

I work 12-hour shifts, Work is short staffed right now so I'm working extra shifts, But I am still managing to easily do the majority of the challenges in an hour to an hour and a half each day.

Ok, you think that how you manage your time is like all other people HAVE to do...this is pretty insane.

Edited March 19, 2019 by (PS4)nating51

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

Because that means more work for DE. Bigger updates for Warframe to cover the extra content. 

- please explain to me how the update package will be bigger just because there are different rewards and cosmetics in the tier system. Sorry but even when I understand your intention here I highly doubt that this will blow up any update package system with a noticable data amount. As mentioned other game developers have sucessfully managed to run individual tier systems without blowing up the update size.

You don't understand how coding works do you. First, they'll need different coding for each event's reward tables and Challenges, and stores, then they'll need different coding for whatever we get instead of fugitives as random bonuses in missions. They'll then need coding to keep these from getting mixed up or overlapping. Then there are each season's intros and dialogue. By the time they get to season 12 with all the other seasons all stacked on top of each other, it will be a convoluted mess.

But as you're a dad and you want to play other games as well, then the fact you won't get to earn all the rewards is the sacrifice you have chosen to make. Do you see me over on the World of Tank Forums, or the Rainbow 6 Siege forums complaining that I don't have time to play their games every week so they should just give me all of the season pass stuff?

Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice comes out this week. I'm going to be playing the hell out of that, It might mean I fall behind on Nightwave. If I do, that's on me because I want to play SSDT. And you know what? I'm not going to complain about how DE is unfair because I wanted to play SSDT and have all of the Umbral potatoes too. 

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)nating51 said:

Ok, you think that how you manage your time is like all other people HAVE to do...this is pretty insane.

<insert Dr Phil having a Seizure.gif>

[(PSN)nating51]

Just now, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

<insert Dr Phil having a Seizure.gif>

 

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

You don't understand how coding works do you

...said the guy who don't even know how to insert a gif.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

that's just the old "I can do it so you can do it as well" argument and that is just a false assumption.

Tell me, when we had the old alert system were you on here complaining they should extend the alert timers to weeks so you could get all of the alerts done? And earn all of the nanospores?

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

1 minute ago, (PS4)nating51 said:

 

...said the guy who don't even know how to insert a gif.

I know how to insert one. But it was quicker to type that reply. You know time management.

[(XBOX)Rufnax]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Tatakai no Kami:

Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice comes out this week. I'm going to be playing the hell out of that, It might mean I fall behind on Nightwave. If I do, that's on me because I want to play SSDT. And you know what? I'm not going to complain about how DE is unfair because I wanted to play SSDT and have all of the Umbral potatoes too. 

fair point sersiouly but I want to state that I don't complain I just want to give feedback on how to improve that system for all players. That's all. And that is where a feedback thread is here for. Right? Where is your feedback and ideas how to improve the system? You good with it? That's great and I am happy for you. But other people are not and therefore we have this thread. Just because you are personally not affected doesn't mean other people have not a valid argument. As you can see there are alot of players feeling this way and that's why we have this current "Split" about nightwave in the player base. And I just don't want this.

[(XBOX)Rufnax]

old- forget about that. DOon't know how to delete the comments here.

Edited March 19, 2019 by (XB1)Rufnax
invalid

[(XBOX)Rufnax]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Tatakai no Kami:

Tell me, when we had the old alert system were you on here complaining they should extend the alert timers to weeks so you could get all of the alerts done? And earn all of the nanospores?

I never said I want the old alert system back. I said I like the new nightwave system in it's basic idea. And nobody complained about the old alert system being unfair because it came every few days with the same old rewards. When you missed a chance you knew you will have a new change in some time. It's completely different with Nightwave and you know that.

[Ulvra]

Things seems to have gotten a bit off topic since I last looked around here, going back and forth about how things work internally, so in an attempt to return to it...

Yes, if you get 3 ranks per week you're good to reach the end, but that's not the point really, the point is acts which are counter productive to their aim (as I see it). The gild and forma challenges, who do they reward? They reward the middle tier player who hasn't done it all yet but has the resources to throw on the table anyway, while both newbies as well as seasoned players have issues. Yes I could take a garbage weapon and stick forma on that, or build an extra kitgun to level and then toss, that's not the point, I can do it easily, I have the resources, but why must I? One of the things I find enjoyable is figuring out the most efficient way to forma my gear, so being forced to use arbitrary forma just bothers me, also not to even mention the need to potentially buy extra slots to have space for the kitgun.

The problem I have with these acts is not that they're difficult (or easy for that matter), or expensive or whatever, it's that they reward inaction. If I had not been excited about DE's content and already made, leveled and formaed every single zaw variation, every single kitgun and every single moa then I'd be able to toss the act to the wind easily. My issue is that it creates a punishing atmosphere for actually playing the content DE provides.

Now end of the day I went out and caught Squeaky a few times, got to rank 4 with the Quills (finally, should have done that months ago) and crafted a new amp with the tier 4 prism, so that'll be my gilding fodder and tomorrow morning my Hildryn will be done and will serve as my forma fodder, so I guess I am just lucky I hadn't gone and farmed the wisps for all the amps I wanted quite yet because of bounty burnout? It's fine, we can do it, but the issue is that the result seems counter productive to the goal.

Also just for a matter of logic, how come cracking 10 relics is considered elite, when using 3 forma, which requires first cracking, then getting the right drop, then gathering the resources, then spending 72 hours crafting is not...? That makes zero sense except for an internal concept of "this might actually not be the best challenge so we don't want to punish too much by making people skip 5k, but only 3k". I wouldn't have as big of an issue with the challenge if it was to apply a single forma, but not three, because new content usually arrive regularly, I still however do not like the challenge for the previously stated reasons, however the gilding challenge is just a big no on my part because it relies on people not playing the game content.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

9

7 minutes ago, Ulvra said:

Yes, if you get 3 ranks per week you're good to reach the end, but that's not the point really, the point is acts which are counter productive to their aim (as I see it). The gild and forma challenges, who do they reward? They reward the middle tier player who hasn't done it all yet but has the resources to throw on the table anyway, while both newbies as well as seasoned players have issues. Yes I could take a garbage weapon and stick forma on that, or build an extra kitgun to level and then toss, that's not the point, I can do it easily, I have the resources, but why must I? One of the things I find enjoyable is figuring out the most efficient way to forma my gear, so being forced to use arbitrary forma just bothers me, also not to even mention the need to potentially buy extra slots to have space for the kitgun.

 

I agree with this. as I said in another post I'm lucky in that I was already about to build another rattleguts because I wasn't happy with my original version. And Also I am lucky as I still have forma I need to put on weapons and frames. But many aren't in the same position when it comes to these.

 

 

 

 

 

4

8 minutes ago, Ulvra said:

Also just for a matter of logic, how come cracking 10 relics is considered elite, when using 3 forma, which requires first cracking, then getting the right drop, then gathering the resources, then spending 72 hours crafting is not...? That makes zero sense except for an internal concept of "this might actually not be the best challenge so we don't want to punish too much by making people skip 5k, but only 3k". I wouldn't have as big of an issue with the challenge if it was to apply a single forma, but not three, because new content usually arrive regularly, I still however do not like the challenge for the previously stated reasons, however the gilding challenge is just a big no on my part because it relies on people not playing the game content.

I felt the same about the complete 5 Sorties vs the complete 1 with a Friend/Clanmate. That 5 sorties one could have been a 1 off 10k challenge. Or should have been 3 sorties at most.

But I agree the build something or gild something or insert Forma/Catalyst/Reactor type items should not be challenges. In this regard they could be side challenges outside the daily/weekly challenges. Get 1000 or something per season the first time you do one of these things. This way they are not huge bonuses that affect how people level and forma weapons, but it's a nice little bit extra. 

I have a horrible feeling there will be an unlock or acquire 1 or 3 rivens challenge soon.

[Kainosh]

"....with friends or clanmates" requirement does not work.

 

We still do it with complete strangers, but are forced to add each other to friendlist..... And its quite easy to do.  There is no point in that "requirement".

That kinda sucks.

 

Replace it with something like "....with 4 different dragon keys equipped ".     This one would be much more engaging than just adding some random dude to friendlist.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

On 2019-03-12 at 10:16 PM, NezuHimeSama said:

it should be though. The entire warframe payment model has been based around bypassing wait times, so you can either spend time or spend money to get the "fun". People like this are exactly what a game like Warframe has been for. These are the people who have the money to spend, and are willing to to have fun in their free time. This is Warframe's target market.

How the #*!% do you think Warframe survived for so long on a relatively small playerbase without seriously gouging their players with lootboxes and other f2p cancer? By having a market of people who have either time, or money, and allowing those people to cooperate to share the game.

 

5 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Seriously, you want to go down that route? Just dismissing people who have more to do with their lives than sit in a basement, playing a job that they don't get paid for as "pay2win"?

But I guess your fragile ego is clinging to anything it can for a sense of superiority.(see, wasn't that fun?)

Literally complains about not being able to pay to bypass this part of the game. 

Complains when it's pointed out that they are complaining that they can't pay to win and attempts to play victim card while tossing out really weak ad hominem attacks. 

Yeah, no. Better luck next time. 👍

 

 

2 hours ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

Instead of 1 Umbral Forma we can use an Umbral Forma pack and have Umbra Formas throw into the sortie reword poll on Nightwave season 2.

Given the level of demand for that Umbral forma, I disagree. Don't get me wrong, I am sure that we'd all would love a pack of them, or a infinite blueprint, but I'm pretty sure that DE already knew that the vast majority of us are willing to jump through all sorts of hoops to get even one. Let them remain super rare, and keep them locked away, make us have to put out a bit of effort for them. 

It'll give us something to do between content drops and keep the powercreep manageable. 

 

 

Right now, most of the tasks seem to be very basic, with very common parts of playing the game making up the majority. Simple stuff like "complete bounties", "gather resources", "do missions with friends". A few seem to be aimed at the more endgame players. 

We're literally being given rewards just for playing the game, we can skip 13000 points in any given week and still max out. But people are acting as though they are being forced to do the most heinous acts for a mere pittance. 

If people didn't want that reward so very badly, they would just ignore NW. There'd be none of this "Boo hoo fomo fomo" nonsense. DE can and should keep it limited. 

[(PSN)Nek_Food]

Thank God I'm a MR26 Vet (not far away from MR27)...

Spoiler

 

...have some thousands hours on this game, have a big clan and friends to play along and a lot of resources to spend without much of a thought, my life as is right now gives me spare time to play almost every day. Still some Challenges are a bit annoying even for me, yet I can do every single challenge alone (or with friends if forced but I have good friends so this isn't an issue for me more like a pleasure) and I can wipe the list relatively easy in a couple of days. The weekend came and I was thinking I wished I had more challenges to do, so I could progress faster and get done with this event now that I have the time. I'm forced to do things I don't really like, or don't really want do, I'm even forced to play the game more time or in an way sometimes I don't want to, yet I can do it not a big deal at this period of my life. I was forced to build something that I didn't needed, forced to buy more slots I suddenly needed, forced to find something to forma, but not an real issue for me, not a big deal - still somewhat annoying. Why am I forced to do these things I don't need or like or even did just yesterday? Never played Lunaro myself, am I going to forced into that too, well if needed sure I 'll do it once and wipe that challenge out of the way then forget all about that Lunaro thing again, but is this really necessary?

Also do everyone has to be in the forums, at facebook/twitter/twitch/youtube/reddit/etc every single day, just to learn about warframe stuff or little secrets or to redeem a new time-limited code for something, instead of playing the game? Why is this necessary and when you all were newbies, really knew everything, even where to look for anything?

 

 

Thing is that this Nightwave "Event" is becoming equally forced and sometimes unpleasant both for newbies and Veterans too. Is that the worst part? Nope...

The worst part is that I feel that this Nightwave stuff and the challenges is getting the community divided and toxic too...

 

Spoiler

...veterans against newbies, hardcore players against casuals, middle tiers against everyone else, players with friends and members of big clans against those lonely types who like to play solo or with randoms and want their own ghost clan shared with noone, players that topped everything (Ranks, Syndicates, resources, weapons and frames, etc) against the newcomer who stands in frond of a massive content and don't know what to do first, this "event" forces him/her to try playing things out of his reach for those sweet timed exclusive "shiny" stuff (maybe never return, or return in 1 or 2 years). Is like a kind standing in front of a candy shop with a mountain of sweets but can't have almost anything because its late and its locked. Unlucky you...

There are those few who don't have a single problem (until now, still early perhaps) and are preaching in the forum their superiority. I could be one of them if I was thinking only for myself and that every single challenge is simply easy and doable by me, but why am I in this community if its thinking only for myself - that's not what a community really is. I have almost everything this game has to offer, little things are on a wish list (mostly because I have patience, yet its getting smaller and smaller), but I really want the new player to be able to get everything the game has to offer, in his terms and with his own pace and not constantly hitting grind walls and time/equipment gates.

 

Still everyone, veterans or newbie has some kind of a problem with this event, meaning that needs some fixing and many proposed many interesting ideas that could help fix almost all issues. I wish they implement them at least in the next Nightwave round (seems that the current event is already "locked and unchangeable?").

 

Warframe is a game, an really nice game. I want to have fun playing with it, don't want to forced into it and make it like a job (one I don't even like perhaps).

Yea, I want to be able play other games too and then to be able to return at warframe and still have the opportunity to get everything that added into the game that brief time I was "away" with my own terms and pace, not being constantly forced to play every single day just to get that shiny new thingy or else I'll miss it forever (or for the next year or so).

I need to take a summer break perhaps... a couple of weeks or a whole month why not, just to get detoxed from my games addiction... 🙂

...nope you are forced to play until you are sick and tired and burned so much from it, so that the next thing you do is erase it and end with it.

Yeap, almost there... am I? Summer is coming... 🙂

Edited March 19, 2019 by (PS4)Nek_Food

[(XBOX)Rufnax]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Nek_Food:

 

The worst part is that I feel that this Nightwave stuff and the challenges is getting the community divided and toxic too...

Warframe is a game, an really nice game. I want to have fun playing with it, don't want to forced into it and make it like a job (one I don't even like perhaps).

Yea, I want to be able play other games too and then to be able to return at warframe and still have the opportunity to get everything that added into the game that brief time I was "away" with my own terms and pace, not being constantly forced to play every single day just to get that shiny new thingy or else I'll miss it forever (or for the next year or so).

I need to take a summer break perhaps... a couple of weeks or a whole month why not, just to get detoxed from my games addiction... 🙂

...nope you are forced to play until you are sick and tired and burned so much from it, so that the next thing you do is erase it and end with it.

Yeap, almost there... am I? Summer is coming... 🙂

amen brother. Amen. Seriously the worst about nightwave in it's current form is the split is has created in the community and I hope DE see's what they have done. 

It feels like different fractions fighting against each other with different interest not willing to work together for the big whole benefit.

 

Please look at my comment about removing the time gap for the Seasons to end and let me know what you think about that.

[Ulvra]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)Nek_Food said:

The worst part is that I feel that this Nightwave stuff and the challenges is getting the community divided and toxic too...

I share similar concerns as you. The system is decent, but there's some flaws to the design that I hope DE will get ironed out, both to the acts themselves as well as the execution in general. I proposed a pause button for instance so you could pause your progress at the end of the week and resume start of next once you return at your leisure, so you can't just decide you don't like a specific week, but can take X amount of weeks off without losing progress, that'd make it a lot more friendly to people who have a life outside or need a break due to burnout, vacation or life, but to do that the seasons need to play along their own path. Make them playable whenever and let them run the X weeks, but individually for each player, could even give a skip button for those who are not interested in a certain season so they don't have to sit through 10 weeks of waiting.

Another thing I would like to see is a change from "this is your challenges" to "you can get your 36k this week (counting dailies separate as a bonus), now pick from this larger list of acts to decide where you get them". That way you can better pick and choose which acts fit to you, which would create less friction and also allow to cater to a more varied community.

Now for the quote itself, namely the toxicity, sadly that has been there for a long time. People who love sitting hours in extended endless missions and want more of that, people who claim there's no endgame content while refusing to embrace what there is already or make their own endgame, veterans who complain that veterans aren't being arbitrarily rewarded because they've logged in more times. It's all been there all along, but this has perhaps brought it out a bit more because now we're all competing for a voice on the matter. I know a few content producers I've personally stopped watching because I'm tired of hearing complaints constantly, I'd rather just enjoy the parts of the game which I enjoy, even if that's spending two days building a puppy robot in our dojo. That's my endgame... that and floofs.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Ulvra

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Ulvra said:

Yes, if you get 3 ranks per week you're good to reach the end, but that's not the point really, the point is acts which are counter productive to their aim (as I see it).

Depends on what you see as the aim. Everything I've seen suggests that they're trying to get us to take a turn in all of the different things that make up the game. 

Each of us has our own play style, and that's fine. But many of us seem to have somehow avoided certain parts of the game for years. Even you said that there is stuff that you finally did that you had been putting off for months. DE is making us step outside of our comfortable ruts. 

I mean take a look at the sorts of challenges we've had:

Use different damage types; run different types of missions; use a different status type; open containers; collect resources; play in the free roam areas; do some of the more "high level" content; build anything modular and get it ranked up and gilded; play our squad based game with friends or clan mates in your squad. 

 

And almost a third of the standing in any given week can be skipped. We can ask for help getting stuff done if it's currently too hard for us. 

 

Look at the complaints from people who started playing half a decade ago, a lot of it starts off as "I won't do that because I won't. Why should I be forced to?" but a few comments later it comes out that they've never really bothered doing it at all, when they point out that they don't have the max standing with the Ostrons, or Quills, or Fortuna. They could just suck it up, pack away the hubris and ask, "LFG murkray fishing group need someone who has bait pls" and lots of us would jump on that because we still have to do that challenge and we have dozens of each bait, dyes and pharomas. But instead they choose to moan about having to do something that is a big part of this game. 

DE isn't doing anything wrong here. Anyone who really doesn't want to do it, has probably opted out a long time ago. A lot of the whining is coming from people who want the rewards, but also want to dictate what they should be asked to do to get those rewards.