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[DE]Bear

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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14 minutes ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

Well I can tell you that right now it is causing at least my personal meltdown.

A bit offtopic, but I have recently picked up vermintide 2 on sale. Pretty good game all around, would recommend if you are into fantasy and l4d style horde shooters with basic character and loot progression. Anyway, while playing it, a random thought has crossed my mind - here, in 1 hour, I get to complete several missions with varying enemies, randomized encounters, and different surroundings, and I am rewarded with more loot for my character and levels. Or I could be farming this stupid challenge, and after 1 hour of killing the same dudes on the same tileset, with only progression being slight increase in their damage, armor and hp (no new enemies, no minibosses, nothing interesting), I get a bit of yet another rep standing and a bit of kuva (for like 2-3 rerolls).

But that is a different game, so let's take an example from warframe. In 1 hour, I could:

1) Run several different fissures (non-endless ones).

2) Do a sortie (if lucky with mission types, some may take more time).

3) Kill an orb.

4) If the time is right, do a trycap.

5) Do an arbitration for one rotation.

By the end, I would get a bunch of prime parts for ducats or plat, get a sortie reward, get some endo from the arbitration, get some focus and potentially good arcanes from Trydolon, get vox solaris standing, solaris united standing and credits, all while doing different mission types, fighting vastly different enemies and seeing different locations.

Or I could sit in the effin Kuva fortress for 1 hour killing slowly scaling grineer... I hope I demonstrated my point clearly enough.

 

Nobody is stopping you from doing that instead. You could as an example, do all those things and use the plat you can sell the stuff for to buy the rewards you would get from the Nightwave standing. Go ahead, go nuts, use your time in that manner if you wish, nobody has a gun to your head. It boils down to one simple question: How much value do you place on the exclusive cosmetics from the Standing? Because everything else and this is what players don't seem to realise... can be acquired through earning plat from doing different mission types.

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No issue with having an elite 60 minute challenge, but why have it that if you don't want to do an hour in survival you end up missing out on 2 elite challenges?

That's just mean.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Nobody is stopping you from doing that instead. You could as an example, do all those things and use the plat you can sell the stuff for to buy the rewards you would get from the Nightwave standing. Go ahead, go nuts, use your time in that manner if you wish, nobody has a gun to your head. It boils down to one simple question: How much value do you place on the exclusive cosmetics from the Standing? Because everything else and this is what players don't seem to realise... can be acquired through earning plat from doing different mission types.

I do like cosmetics, but probably not that much... But what about umbral forma? I have several warframes with umbral mods that would benefit greatly from it, and as far as I know, DE doesn't plan to sell them in the store, and if they are going to be tradable, the prices will be astronomical, worse than full set of arcane energize or rubico rivens.

There is always this argument that well, missing two weeklies (which are both 1 hour survivals) don't exclude me from the top tier rewards, and it is fair. However, the current challenges make me less confident that the next week ones aren't going to be as bad or worse.

Edited by Mr.Fluffins
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Posted (edited)

I feel like if you want to appeal to different types of players, the challenges themselves (Elite weeklies in particular) need to have alternative condition(s) to complete. Just skipping challenges is not great - with current mathematics skipping Elite Weeklies and doing remaining ~83% of challenges is not enough to max out in 10 weeks (contrary to claims of 60-65% challenges always being enough) so why not give options to complete the same challenge?

60 minutes of survival could require surviving 20 minutes x3 times in one go or in multiple attempts. Ayatan challenge could allow collecting something else or doing some other mission as an alternative. It could even be possible to have some wildly reviled challenges go a lot more smoothly, like having a challenge require doing either 1 Conclave match or completing 1 sortie. Can't really complain about conclave challenge if it's not necessary.

Edited by Randomeer

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

I do like cosmetics, but probably not that much... But what about umbral forma? I have several warframes with umbral mods that would benefit greatly from it, and as far as I know, DE doesn't plan to sell them in the store, and if they are going to be tradable, the prices will be astronomical, worse than full set of arcane energize or rubico rivens.

There is always this argument that well, missing two weeklies (which are both 1 hour survivals) don't exclude me from the top tier rewards, and it is fair. However, the current challenges make me less confident that the next week ones aren't going to be as bad or worse.

Then your answer is that you value the rewards enough to invest your time into it. To try and put your mind at ease, I am currently at tier 8. So that implies in a 11 week season I'll average 440k standing. Since I need 300k to hit rank 30 and get all the rewards, that's quite a few 5k standing elite challenges you can miss to get that umbral forma still.

Also, I agree that umbral forma are great but I can assure you that no frame in the game requires it to complete all available content with ease and there are only a few meta frames for going on really long endurance runs anyway. So they are like rivens, shiny but in no way necessary.

Edited by Zilchy

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57 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

that's actually a great idea! add up the minutes consecutively over the course of a week, so you could do 3 20 min runs, or 2 30 min runs, or even 4 15 minute runs. you should put that in #feedback.

DE will say it’s too easy.

Id lobby for 20-25 minutes with restrictions like Sorties have.

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Posted (edited)

GentlePuppet nailed it, laid out everything wrong that adds up to a false bill of goods with NW. These issues of hidden extreme grinding for far less over much more time need resolved.

9 hours ago, No1Eye said:
  On 2019-03-02 at 6:24 AM, GentlePuppet said:

I went back and did some more math. I made a list of all the alerts from a single day (Feb 21st) then added up mostly all the rewards.
Check it out here if yer curious:https://pastebin.com/raw/BrAVctzP

After 1 day, if you did every single alert, you could get the following. (I was going to do 1 week for alerts as well but there was just too much stuff)
1,079,700 Credits
17 Blueprints
6 Mods
2,200 Endo
4 Nitain
60 Void Traces
MISC Resources

After 1 week in the new system, if you do all the weekly challenges, including the dailies, you'll get 45k, and if yer starting at rank 0 as a new player would be, you will get to rank 4 and you can get the following.
1 Sigil, 2 Glyphs, 50 Wolf Creds, and 2 Weapon Slots.
With those 50 credits, you can buy:
2 Mods OR
1 Helmet and 5 Nitain OR
2 Vauban Parts OR
1 Weapon Blueprint OR
15 Nitain OR
1 Weapon Skin
That's it, Nothing else...

BUT if you take into account that most new players can't do sorties, won't find 5 ayatans in a week, won't be helping much in a Hydrolist fight, and if they're not yet far enough on the star chart to scan stuff for Simaris then you can lop off 16k right there, so they'd only end up getting 29000. They'd either have to wait for an 8th day to get that 1k daily or they'd have to be in a squad and capture 20 of these escapees to get to rank 3 if they wanted those creds on their 7th day.

Take this how you will.

 

I know it's been said ad nauseam, but the easiest solution would be to have both of these systems running to satiate everyone. Those who like and/or prefer NW can use it. Those who like and/or prefer Alerts can do them. Easy-peasy fix.

Edited by Nyx219
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My suggestion is to change the standing rewards  like this:

Daily Challenge  : 2000 rep
Weekly Challenge : 4000  rep
Elite  Weekly Challenge : 2000 rep

This would help casual players get enough standing when they miss out some of the elite weeklies while still giving veterans something to minmax to.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, IgnisDraconis4316 said:

And you complete look over the whole "I work for a living not game for a living" You could get that sure all in one day if you played all day every day without a job, life, kids or anything else.

Now tell me or else I drop this convo with you........ what did the old alerts give you that a veteran of 5 years didn't already have....... hmmmm?

Sure if I wanted to get my 450,000 Energy Siphon then sure the alerts were really good. But what reward is that?

If you cannot see the simple fact that nightwave gives you the rewards of alerts PLUS brand new rewards, cosmetics and otherwise then you are walking around with blind folds.

And before you talk about credits....... I have several MILLION credits, 10s of thousands of the resources, every alt helm, every aura mod, and yet you are telling me that I should give up the rewards of nightwave based on it sucks and it isn't easy.

Also by your logic no frame should be reworked, systems should change just so a player can play the way he or she wants to.

Welcome to the real world it doesn't bend to your will. Maybe once you are making $45k a year, have several kids, a wife, a house payment, among other priorities you will understand that alerts did not help you at all. With this I can come back and play on the weekends and still get all the rewards.

Come back and talk with me after 5 years of playing this game if you haven't already.

DE cannot make EVERYONE happy. It is completely impossible.

Here is a better questions......... if nightwave sucks, then how would you have done it better without losing half of your community because they don't want to grind their 4thousandth Nitain to use it on nothing because they have everything.

Do you my friend hate the rewards or would you like to play warframe as it was 5-6 years ago?

 

first of all, friend, the new system mainly asks you to be putting more effort for the rewards you wanna reach, and if you do not see that, well, let's see how you are gonna feel about it a while from now, how rewarded you are gonna feel as days/weeks go by.

also, i have a job too, a family and all that, and the old system did not require you to be online all day.

there is the mobile app, in case you knew, with all the alerts poping up and what you needed to run, you did run, and took you only 5-10 minutes quite frankly.

who exactly said to you that 'you need to work for a living not game for a living' and all that?

if anything, the new way is more like 'game for living', than the old way.

and the better way is this, have both up, old alerts and challenges and let the players decide which one they wanna do.

i do not know why exactly you are against this, since it seems it is all the same to you and you get what you want, as you say, from the nightwaves challenges anyway.

would it matter if the old alerts were up and running too?

 

also, keep in mind you are not the only progressed player in game.

in fact, i might be more progressed than you, since i played the game less years than you and, i've done all of those in the past too,

that's how i reached to mr26 and almost everything owned in game, all focus schools maxed with overflow by a lot of millions to each, lots of rivens rerolled, all syndicates maxed and extracted what i wanted out of them (conclave included), moas, amps, kitguns and the list goes on and on and on and on.

and, you also, are missing the point.

the point is it shouldn't be done as a chore, as a forced thing, as second job.

the point is that it takes us way longer to do those things now, to simply take the alert reward.

the point is that people are being forced to grind up all the way to the reward(s) they aim at.

the point is that the new system is forcing us to do a bunch of stuff we do not really wanna do or we have done already many times over and got all burned out of them already.

the point is that it is not new player friendly, at all.

but still, the nightwaves are a nice addition in the game, they need to be tweaked so to be more viable to all kinds of players, but, they are nice overall.

as an addition to the game with the alerts alongside as well, though, and not as a replacement.

 

so, this whole attitude of yours which is 'come back and talk to me after 5 years' needs to be dialed down a bit, coz well, it is childish, quite frankly, and coz i might know more things than you and be more progressed than you in way less time than you.

comprende?

and btw, your account says Joined: July 10, 2018, so i find it hard to believe you have played the game for 5 years, if so.

also, this ain't the real world, this is a game.

but, welcome to the real world in which not everyone shares the same exact thoughts and point of views as you.

 

and quite franky, in your whole excitement to tag all the admins in your previous post because you think it will be more visible than the other posts in here or whatever else reason, kind of made you forget other things, like new players, like the not so progressed ones, casual players and the bad hits that the new system has by replacing the old alerts, while in fact they should both be up and running so everyone to be happy.

nonetheless, have fun playing the challenges and let's see how long it will last before you get all burned out by it and be ready to quit the game, once more, as per your words.

now, let me drop the convo to you instead, coz it seems you took a wrong turn somewhere back there.

 

Edited by No1Eye
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In general I love Nightwave so far.

Balance wise 100 eximus kills vs 60 min survival and/or Hydrolyst fight do not feel equal, yet 5k is what you get from all of them.

I'm wondering if perhaps a 4th tier reward scale of "Nightmare challenge" might be more fitting for some of the real endurance challenges, especially since the Hydro cap/kill turned into a Tridolon run for most i'd wager (even if it wasn't technically a necessity) 🙂 

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Sadly, the time investment required to get the things that I'm interested in is too high.

If I want to get my hands on the Umbra Forma, I'dd have to play every week for 10 - 11 weeks. Unfortunately this is not compatible with the rest of my life. 
Since I'm right now only interested in the UF, it also means I would get 28 tiers of rewards I don't care about.

For me it feels like Nightwave takes the wind out of my sails.

Also: I don't enjoy Nora's lines.

Maybe I'll check back in season 2.

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15 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:
  • Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.

I won't lie. Reading this thread it bothers me a little how you have this segment of the community saying they're too casual to do certain challenges, to put X amount of time into the game, etc. and yet they feel entitled to having 100% completion on the game and having access to every single reward and piece of content. Honestly, this game has catered to this mindset for far too long. It will never have a proper endgame or sustainable veteran content if it continues to follow this trend. It needs some sort of difficult hardcore content at the end of the curve if it ever wants to retain its playerbase through more than just frantically trying to pump out new content faster than players can consume it. In other games that's raids, great rifts, pvp, etc. 

I'm not saying this has to be 60 min survivals, not at all, but if you guys remove challenges at the first sign of complaints on these forums, we'll never have difficulty in Warframe. In other games 60 min is a pretty standard time for completing raids. I know a lot of people are saying "it's not difficult, just boring" but then they keep saying how they failed at 40 or 50 min due to lack of life support and complain about "bugs". That's exactly where the challenge is. Keeping up with your kills per second and life support as enemies become tougher to kill and drop less of it. Knowing how the spawn mechanics work and how to make the best of enemy spawns, etc. 

Now don't get me wrong, I understand the dilemma with new players and Wolf Creds. New players need that stuff hidden behind wold creds, the nitain, potatoes, etc. But honestly, new players don't really need to reach rank 30, at around rank 24 I believe that's the last of the Wolf creds. As long as new players have the means to realistically accrue the Wolf Creds needed to buy the resources they need to progress in the game, then Nightwave has done its job. When I was a new player I was focused on working on my builds and progressing through the Star Chart, I wasn't complaining trials were too hard for me and that I couldn't get arcane energize because of that.

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i am an elite player and i like the challenges and the endurance runs i would like to see more of that and not nerf the endurance runs or nerf the elite runs cause low lvl players cannot do it or some find it boring (find boring a mission in a grind game).

the game is grind farm , long term comintment, long term farming, long term play, if some dont get the spirit of the game they are in for a suprise and they chose rong.

elite players deserve a bone and let them play the game, let them use the hard earned mods they have , the hard earned forma and builds they have and spend time to the game the love and have fun playing. let them enjoy the years of farming the 2000h 3000h 4000h of their gameplay. 

criticising anything in the game is not constructive but giving an altrenative option  in your criticism is the right direction. the players that post in the forums mostly dont use the right way of posting but just flaming. this is the reason i myself and others get too frustrating with that way of behaviour and some times make personal comments to those players in a way to show if they really play the game and if they really have a constructive opinion to give and not just flaming and spread toxicity.

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I would simply like for there to be MORE challenges per day and per week. I understand that it isn't desirable for us to burn through this, but it's the first time I've WANTED to do standard things like capture or assassination missions in a long time thanks to nightwaves. It gives me more to do and keeps me on my toes.

I think a good amount would be 2 dailies, 9 weeklies, 4 elite weeklies to make sure that players have options, that those who can't do elite can still get appropriately rewarded while working towards it, and allows veteran players to work through it a little faster to get more out of the system. That's an increase of about two ranks per week (61k standing as opposed to the current 43k) but that also means the minimum completion rate is about 50%, which I think is reasonable for people with busy lives due to work, university, etc. who benefit most from this new system.

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Cool looks like they are looking into the "with friend or clan member " issue.

So with that said, my big concern is the event credits. It clearly states use or lose but you only get them at certain ranks, thats a lot of grinding to buy nitan. This makes sense for the cosmetics but the crafting resources. I prefer we gained accumulative wolf cred as we rank.

Question, will our rank progression be reset when/if the event returns?

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Posted (edited)

I am still feeling things out.

Overall, I don't mind the grind in WF save for a few unreasonable instances. I don't mind it because I can still grind at my own pace.

What I like most about Warframe is its diversity of options (in every facet of the game), the ability to solo almost anything I want to solo, the option to group up with largely non-judgmental and non-toxic randos when I need or want to, and the ability to progress at my own speed. 

My biggest concern right now is that Nightwave's clock goes against my ability to play at my own pace. 

As soon as I'm unable to play, I fall behind. That has never been the case for other rewards. I could always come back several months (and years in the case of acquiring warframes) later to pick up where I left off. 

I've asked for clarification if the seasons and their rewards will return, but haven't seen any evidence that this is true. That makes them unlike tactical alerts and events which do return. Steve and Rebecca expressed regret at making timed-exclusive rewards. Y'all at DE sought to remedy this by re-introducing old rewards from events past back into the drop tables. That was a good plan, and many completionists were happy.

If that is the plan with Nightwave seasons and rewards, that would be nice. If the plan is to make all higher-tier Nightwave rewards tradeable, that is at least something.

But if each season/some of the rewards will run only once with no possibility of return (and with no option to trade for rewards), that's punitive and the lessons of previous timed-exclusive rewards have been lost. 

Yes. I understand the need to create higher-tier rewards and exclusivity. Making some things harder to obtain is fine, as long as they can be obtained. (Hema? Still unreasonable, but I can obtain it...eventually. Ignis Wraith is at least tradeable with dojos that were able to research it.)

EDIT: Watched Devstream 124. Glad to see Rebecca and Steve address the timed exclusivity issue, and to hear that they'll work on a way to return the rewards to the tables at some point. Possibility some rewards will be back the next season.

As for how I'm feeling things out, I think I'm doing okay right now. But I who even knows if I'll reach tier 30 in the allotted time.

I'm generally content to go as far as I can until I reach completion or until I'm unwilling or unable. 

Good:

  • I liked being challenged to turn my brain back on (not a slight to anyone) and figure out how to do something (or follow someone else's neat trick for how to get said thing done).
  • I liked having to actually pick a gun I haven't used in a while, mod it for cold, and dust off my Frost for the cold damage challenge.
  • I liked playing with RL friends again (haven't done it for a while because we tend to run solo or public)
  • I liked having a reason to play a solid hour of survival again. With a two-person squad (just me and my RL friend), it was fun. I know we could've run an hour-long survival at any time, but I never feel motivated to.
  • I like that some challenges require a bit of thinking, while others I can do passively.
  • I like that Nightwave's trying to get me to capture animals since I haven't done it yet. Still haven't, though. No time yet.
  • Likewise, way to try to get me to run a Triodolon. I've only ever gone after Terry in public.
  • I like Nora Night. The voice actress is great and her role in the story has a lot of potential.

Needs Work:

  • Suffer no delusions: people are decent, but people are also toxic. For the most part, it's kept in check because PVE and there is no incentive or need to be toxic. The Kuva survival mission's restriction gave a minority of people a reason to scratch an itch, to be toxic, to grief just because. Incentive. 
  • Anything I think is stupid I'm not bothering with. Stupid is subjective, of course.
  • Anything I have neither the time nor the resources for, I'm not bothering with. Recently liquidated several Ayatans for the 40k Endo I needed to finish ranking up a spare Primed Flow (sold it). So the Ayatan challenge was one I didn't bother with.
  • Had I the time, I would have tried the Tridolon, but I wouldn't have been happy about it. I'm just ambivalent as to whether this was a good challenge. Never done it.
  • The grind for Wolf Cred in order to access basic resources is too steep for new players. I don't mind that a catalyst is 75 WC, but that's too much for others. I'd rather keep buying catalysts/reactors outright for myself and gifting them to others as well. Simply adjusting the prices would help. Here's someone who said it more eloquently and with math.
  • Instead of asking us to complete Syndicate missions, we might collect X number of medallions. (Restores some balance to public groups who feel shafted by Nightwave rush players.)
  • I think the frequency of Nora's dialogue needs to be addressed again. Lines like the "badass" one need to only trigger when we do heavy lifting (elite challenges). Lighter stuff for lighter work.
  • I think Nora needs a great deal more context than she was given. My take on missing context in this post's spoiler. Just dropping her without more context makes her feel like a pretentious outsider. She shouldn't come off that way.
  • For those who don't like Nora, a complete mute feature (there's precedent for it) should be available. It should be available for all such NPCs/dispatcher characters (Permanent lunch for Konzu). Yes, I know George has mentioned non-essential dialogue will have a setting in options.

This feedback is incomplete because there are things I might not care about, things I haven't done yet, and because it's still early. I also wanted to ask friends what they'd change about Nightwave/what they like.

 

Edited by Rhekemi
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Posted (edited)

Return the alert system that worked just fine for 6 years - don't wait 10 weeks for feedback that you should have gotten before you released it in the first place - just do it now and let it be there in combination with the new nightwave system.

The nightwave system is more time consuming, plus there is now a 30 level grind wall with stupid acts to get about the same rewards.

Here is some more advice for DE - don't tell your players how they should play this game - let them choose what they want to play themselves.

Let them play missions, that they want to play to rank up - and let them play those again and again while getting the same amount of xp.

Just set a weekly or monthly xp cap and let the players reach it by playing what they like to play.

Nightwave is not newbie friendly and most of the acts are not fun to do.

Give more wolf creds and never turn them into credits.

Add an option to turn off Nora.

 

 

Edited by Shadow-Spawn
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Nice 🙂

 

Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.

yep... maybe something more realistic like "find 5 ayatan stars or sculptures" would be fine for a weekly challenge ...

 

Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.

"you have been playing for more than an hour, please don't forget to take a break" .... it is indeed way too long... not everyone enjoy endurance runs ^^'

 

Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe".  

also : sortie specialist is just a weekly, while sortie with a friend is an elite weekly... ? so... having one friend is worth 2,000 standing points ? 😛

 

more generally, the other challenge are reasonnable so far, but they might be a bit unbalanced... example :

Jailer = Complete 3 capture missions, about 10 minutes work, worth 3,000 points

Invader =Complete 9 Invasion missions of any type, can be 30 minutes to an hour depending on the missions available... worth 3,000 points as well

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Pandoran_Stallion said:

I think a good amount would be 2 dailies, 9 weeklies, 4 elite weeklies to make sure that players have options, that those who can't do elite can still get appropriately rewarded while working towards it, and allows veteran players to work through it a little faster to get more out of the system.

I feel 4 dailies, 4 weeklys and 4 elites is a better divide. 

Veterans will most likely complete all the challenges and newer/casual player will feel like they made reasonable advance in their reputation gains if they can not complete the long endurance challenges ... as well as an event timer.

Edited by (XB1)Nightseid

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Posted (edited)

I understand some hardcore players want more insane challenges. But if you really like challenges, why you need rewards? Some trophies or gryphs should be enough reward because you've done great thing and that is important.
Being hardcore should not be mandatory because it will not be "hardcore" anymore. Elites are elites because they are small number of people.

Endgame contents are good, but I think the concept of Nightwave is for everyone. As I posted before, don't put everything into Nightwave. If you wanna create endgame contents for elites, please make separated event or system.

Edited by (NSW)ForTheGhostsWithin
I used wrong English word, English is difficult
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29 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

I won't lie. Reading this thread it bothers me a little how you have this segment of the community saying they're too casual to do certain challenges, to put X amount of time into the game, etc. and yet they feel entitled to having 100% completion on the game and having access to every single reward and piece of content. Honestly, this game has catered to this mindset for far too long. It will never have a proper endgame or sustainable veteran content if it continues to follow this trend. It needs some sort of difficult hardcore content at the end of the curve if it ever wants to retain its playerbase through more than just frantically trying to pump out new content faster than players can consume it. In other games that's raids, great rifts, pvp, etc. 

I'm not saying this has to be 60 min survivals, not at all, but if you guys remove challenges at the first sign of complaints on these forums, we'll never have difficulty in Warframe. In other games 60 min is a pretty standard time for completing raids. I know a lot of people are saying "it's not difficult, just boring" but then they keep saying how they failed at 40 or 50 min due to lack of life support and complain about "bugs". That's exactly where the challenge is. Keeping up with your kills per second and life support as enemies become tougher to kill and drop less of it. Knowing how the spawn mechanics work and how to make the best of enemy spawns, etc. 

Now don't get me wrong, I understand the dilemma with new players and Wolf Creds. New players need that stuff hidden behind wold creds, the nitain, potatoes, etc. But honestly, new players don't really need to reach rank 30, at around rank 24 I believe that's the last of the Wolf creds. As long as new players have the means to realistically accrue the Wolf Creds needed to buy the resources they need to progress in the game, then Nightwave has done its job. When I was a new player I was focused on working on my builds and progressing through the Star Chart, I wasn't complaining trials were too hard for me and that I couldn't get arcane energize because of that.

But long survivals are boring and not challenging though. Things might just start to get challenging at 60min and it is time to go anyway because there is no reason to play on. If this game wants to challenge us, there needs to be missions where the enemy levels start at above sortie level (not to mention better AI and varied skills/weapons,and not just knockdown for days, but oh well.) But for christ sake don't make us slough through 60mins of unchallenge game mode and call that a challenge. I will make this point again: endless missions stopped being endless when the relic system was introduced. There has been no incentive to play pass rotation C. And if the game is promoting bite size content to the majority of its player base for almost 2 years now, it shouldn't suddenly have activities that requires a hour in a mission.

And also keep in mind that nightwave is replacing alerts. The alerts that new player can easily jump in and play, encourages progress through the star chart, and at the end of the mission have something to show for instantly. As it stands right now, the cost of some items are simply too inconsistent. 35 cred for an alt helm means a player can at most get 9 alt helms over 10 weeks, but that could also be 200(!) nitain. And if a player starts 5 weeks into the series then he will get even less. 

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5 minutes ago, (NSW)ForTheGhostsWithin said:

Endgame contents are good, but I think the concept of Nightwave is for everyone. As I posted before, don't put everything into Nightwave. If you wanna create endgame contents for elites, please make separated event or system.

Like sorties? Or Arbitrations? Tridolon hunts? I agree with you, and lots of endgame content already exists, but as usual, veteran players can never get enough. Now they want elite content in nightwaves which replaces alerts - which veteran players haven't touched in years.

Lots of people in this thread seem to take Nightwaves as "new content". It's not - and it should not be! It replaces an existing system for beginning and intermediate players to get some good mods, rare components and maybe some help on hard missions. It's crazy to change that helpful system into new "elite" end-game veteran endurance challenges! MR25+ players make up what? 0.5% of the player base? Most people are around ~MR10. DE should align nightwaves around what beginners and the majority of players need and want. For anyone in need of more and harder challenges, maybe drop one or two maxed primed mods or those 2k plat arcanes from your builds. That should be enough.

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Posted (edited)

DE, you done goofed. Even in ordered squads, someone can manage to sabotage the whole team with a disconnect, defeatist attitude, etc... and this is exactly what happened. That and, that awful "with friend/clan mate" prerequisite ruined me when I found out that I had forgotten about it.

I used to be very optimistic about Nightwave, but the more I play it the more I come to absolutely loathe it. It was a bad, bad move that might be salvaged at that. So keep trying, and think it over before you implement anything similar in the future. 

All the best. We all cave in togetheeeeeer, togetheeeeeer .

Edit: Wait... the devs don't read General Discussion.... F***!

Edited by Tellakey
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Well, if you want to give it another go, add me in game.  

I can use the Kuva and once I get home around 12 (west coast) I have no plans. 

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Mark the time, the players that were in the mission, any screenshot evidence etc send it support and report his ass for being a griefer.

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