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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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4 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Good news first - Wolf of Saturn Six is almost over, so you can look forward to whatever replaces that in Nightwave.

Bad news - game is pretty much the same as it was 18 months ago, with only meleé mechanics being re-worked. New content, but essentially the same kind of gameplay.

So, if it annoys you this much, I'd suggest looking for a new game to play.

 

What (new) is happening now, to me is that warframe used to bring people together via alerts and nightmare alerts (all it needed was for them to reward tokens and someone trading them in similar fashion to Baro) and now it make it your job (friend & dojo quests from nightweave).
Then it used to offer a lot of content to choose from but now it pushes you away from stuff it doesnt want you to do, turning one it want you to do a chore (job) ...

Just like those other modern sh*ty "games".

Ps. Am I only allowed to play one game? Also, that is kind of bad attidue - I would like to move one once I complete (or play through most of the contend of) the game, not just because someone throw in a stinker that broke it. That is not really viable strategy, me spending time and money getting SH. in return ~ what point ther would be to play anymore. Once I do that I may as well quit at all and hope it will contribute to another industry crash.

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2 hours ago, SnU4uCghkY said:

What I want is HONESTY. If the rate is higher than 4-6% at higher difficulty (AND IT IS) then why there is not information about it anywhere?
Then there is a question of rate being affected by gear score, mastery level and amount of weapons.

There is no information about it, and it is something that I think should be clear. If I have 75% chance of encountering Wolf, Stalker, Syndicate - if I jump into 60+ mission with full *unranked* set, then why not admit it? I did a ton of low level missions, Wolf hasn't spawn single time, then I do high level nightmares and he pops up constantly. Saying it is 4-6% across all missions is like an insult. Same goes for having to select between BRAINDEAD and ARTIFICIALLY impossible challanges.

Blizzard did this sht with their -10L to +10L difficulty modificators on open world pvp ~ just so they can line they pockets. And they succeed - financially, for a while at least...

Have you stopped to think that maybe you already have an honest answer, and cognitive bias has just made you feel differently because you got pounded and really don't want it to happen again? 

 

I've been levelling stuff most of the event, but not leeching because I always have at least one weapon that can get the killing done on hydron. As a result, every time the wolf showed up he's gotten slapped on the nose and sent packing. The first time was the most difficult to kill him. After that experience, I reworked one weapon to deal high crit radiation damage, which easily kills the vast majority of stuff in the game, and takes the wolf down rapidly enough. 

Now like I said I'm levelling stuff, and Hydron is always a mixed bag of preparedness. But it's exceedingly rare to find anyone else who is really doing high levels of damage to the wolf. And exceedingly common to see people whine about getting killed when their gear was low leveled. And many of times when the person whining about the wolf being a 40 minute bullet sponge has made the mistake of putting up info on the "very good build" that they are using it's not anything near to a good build for killing the wolf. 

 

The other piece of ridiculousness that I see a lot is the "you only beat him if you have OP meta gear". First because this completely invalidates their other argument that "he only shows up when people aren't ready for him" and second, because it's just not true. Yes my gear is OP by comparison to what a lot of people are claiming is all they "should need" . But only because it's built to the best of my ability, to give high crits and high radiation damage. Yes that means that I am using primed mods and not everyone has those, but my mods aren't all maxed out yet and you can do about 50% of the damage without any fancy mods, a lot easier. I typically do over 50% of the damage any time Wolf shows up. 4 people who can do 50% of my damage, will take him down almost twice as fast. 

Oh.... Did I mention that there are much better weapons for damaging the wolf? Or that many people already have one built and modded, because it's the exact same thing that they use to take down Eidolons? Or that there are frames with abilities that destroy him in ways that make my choice of weapon look like a ridiculous pea-shooter? 

 

This suggests that a huge part of the problem lies in the fact that people are intentionally going about unprepared to meet the wolf, meeting him while unprepared, and then blaming their failures on the game. 

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, SnU4uCghkY said:

What (new) is happening now, to me is that warframe used to bring people together via alerts and nightmare alerts (all it needed was for them to reward tokens and someone trading them in similar fashion to Baro) and now it make it your job (friend & dojo quests from nightweave).
Then it used to offer a lot of content to choose from but now it pushes you away from stuff it doesnt want you to do, turning one it want you to do a chore (job) ...

Just like those other modern sh*ty "games".

Ps. Am I only allowed to play one game? Also, that is kind of bad attidue - I would like to move one once I complete (or play through most of the contend of) the game, not just because someone throw in a stinker that broke it. That is not really viable strategy, me spending time and money getting SH. in return ~ what point ther would be to play anymore. Once I do that I may as well quit at all and hope it will contribute to another industry crash.

Alerts brought people together? Bahahahahahahaha. No. Many people just skipped the vast majority of alerts because they didn't need to do them. 

 

As for wolf breaking the game, he hasn't. But maybe he's breaking the power fantasy that many people have built for themselves, which from their point of view, is far worse?

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"You have to prepare for this field raid boss wolfy in every missions"

Yes it's breaking game.

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2 hours ago, o0Despair0o said:

Welcome to 2019, where wasting every bit of your limited lifetime is the new definition of fun.

 

I blame all the hardcore-grinder Vets who keep crying that the game is too easy. And I'm a Vet myself. Only difference that I don't spend every minute of my life grinding Rivens and prime gear, but actually try to enjoy the game.

I'm scarcely a hardcore grinder, and the game is too easy. The problem is that DE's idea of difficulty is making you grind the same dull, easy mission in 20 minute chunks to get a resource to feed one of the RNG loops. Y'know, as opposed to actual difficulty.

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36 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

"You have to prepare for this field raid boss wolfy in every missions"

Yes it's breaking game.

Syndicate missions, assassinate missions, free roam missions, anywhere in that you're likely to run into one of those "special" enemies that spawn in? 

Not to mention that being ready for meeting him, means ready to send any other assassins packing, or melt just about everything else?

Not to mention that you can set up an archgun for him, which means that you can take whatever level 0 weapons you want and still destroy him? 

Not to mention that a lot of melee weapons can get the job done if you're cool with a tanky frame and that's really the way you want to go? 

Which of those options breaks your power fantasy the least? 

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"Alerts brought people together"

If by that you mean newbies flooded region chat with "LF taxi to alert" then yeh sure...

Not to mention you'd then carry the mission for them while they brought gear to level.

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4 hours ago, SnU4uCghkY said:

Have they at least fixed rewards dissapearing if host leave after chaining bounties? Or is operator stuff not as much of a grind as it was in the past? I don't get it - WHERE THE GAME part of DE's business product is right now?

the Host migration struggle is STILL THERE and its in the new modes too like arbitration, recently their genius solution to that in arbitration in particular was basically an "heeyy, you can revive your teammates now so maybe,mayyyybe the Host will change his mind on leaving before you". About the business they're running it like headless chickens as if they don't know what to do with it anymore, aside pushing stuff for new players as they don't have an overwhelming load of stuff to do already while releasing cosmetics for veterans as endgame content, because "FaShIoNfrAme is thE tRuE Endgame" and in the meantime old stuff like conclave reeks like a rotten body in your orbiter

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How are you getting him to spawn so frequently? He only has a 6% chance of appearing on higher level missions. Tell me your secrets!!

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I suggest to get a Valkyr or a Valkyr Prime, buff her strenght/efficiency/duration for Hysteria, and make the Hysteria a crit-based radiation exalted weapon. Maybe it would work.

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Just let the wolf kill you and he will be gone. I still don't understand why a lot of people whine about the wolf :A

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NightWave is failure. Fight Me. 

- 1 Hour Survive Mission and Host just leave just to troll. Hahaha breathing is fun

 

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3 hours ago, IntheCoconut said:

How are you getting him to spawn so frequently? He only has a 6% chance of appearing on higher level missions. Tell me your secrets!!

Well, for me it only spawned in high difficulty missions (and considering farming stuff from lower levels) I do significantly less high level ones yet all my encounters were there.
Then on top of that, in only one of those I was reasonably well equiped (but everyone just ignored hime and went for extraction, living much to little time to finish him).

So the secret is: if you have high difficulty mission and a recently form(a)ed loadout (that can teoretically still pull it out, even solo) then why not make it both interesting and efficient 🙂
If mission is a bit above reasonable then you may mix in a ton of consumables or (close to) maxed backup weapon/pet. You may want to swap mods to their rank zero versions before polarizing so you can keep the build and just upgrade them when enough slots free up during leveling (many weapons really benefit from some unobvious builds - this make it a bit more difficult but there is no longer need to memorize weapons/warframes kinks). And also, for efficiency it is always good to aim for bonus objectives (caches, dragon keys, etc.).

Ps. While I leave public match making on, I don't need/intend to leech since missions for which that would be the case would take too much time undergeared solo, and if someone joins that just bonus exp. Anyway no matter amount of people online or willing to take the mission, for some reason I don't recally single occasion I would be matched with anyone, while significantly undergeared, in those circumstances (consider it a hint you wolf "hunt" is going well -- if your aim is to get killed). And when you go maxed out, you get matched with team so OP, people end up fighting for the opportunity to kill that poor single enemy (prestige reasons I guess) they often even forget the objective.

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Posted (edited)

Match making and related game mechanics are one of the things I really like about warframe. Even in a pug team person can always contribute, if you get matched up you can relax getting carried or fashion framing, if you get matched down you can have fun mincing fun amounts of enemies. More fun and more exp anyway.

Only exception would be dificult/specific content but I dont think that pugs are best places to find people for (maybe outside of missions going endless if randomly picked team work well together).

Edit:
That is why I really liked nightmare alerts 😄 - better rewards and you often got matched with people who jumped in based on (incorrect) description, which nicely spiked up difficulty making it interesting (plus: no shield is fun modificator).

Edited by SnU4uCghkY
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, CodeUltimate said:

Just let the wolf kill you and he will be gone. I still don't understand why a lot of people whine about the wolf :A

When there are multiple players the Wolf needs to down all 4 of them at the same time for him to leave, add that problem to a Defense or Interception mission which needs all enemies to be dead for a wave to complete and allow for Evac and you have a recipe for one player making 3 need to wait for them to die to keep their mission rewards.

Edited by Aldain

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I just really think DE is putting their resources into updates that aren't worth the dev team. Fortuna is good, but not worth the incredible amount of dev time that went into it. For 90% of players, Fortuna ONLY exists to get a kitgun you like then boom you're pretty much done with Fortuna.

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This is really long, but I wanted to wait until I had a fully comprehensive list. Maxed rank and got the armor like a week ago. I've gotta be honest, Nightwave was not thought out well at all.

I've got 3k hours in game. When I look at Nora's wolf cred reward page, I have an owned quantity number ranging from 2-8 on every item she has available. If you're a long term vet, it offers nothing beyond the armor, the weapon "augment" mods, and the Umbral Forma. Tried the first two on a few missions, they're meh, and the forma just sits in my inventory, as a trophy.

Let's say you're new. You're screwed. Not only will you not have access to nodes needed to complete certain challenges (the Kuva survival node is an obvious example), if you joined the season too late, you can't catch up. On top of that all of your wolf creds will be going towards nitain to build frames and weapons to get up to a decent MR.

Say you're somewhere in the middle. Those catalysts and reactors would help with mod capacity, as would an aura, but Nora doesn't have the aura you're looking for this week. Next week, Nora has the aura, but you already spent your creds on nitain or a reactor, or vise versa. In the meantime, forget about getting any alt helmet you wanted. Really seems like a way to push people into buying things, doesn't it?

If you're a vet, you've already got everything. If you're new, there's even more time and rep gates you have to deal with. If you're in the middle, you're getting screwed from both ends, as you either have the thing, or Nora doesn't have it this week, or you already spent your creds and you cant get it when she does have it.

Then we have the fallacies from the player base. "Don't like it, don't do it." So you think DE just wants us to stop playing? That's a very well thought out statement. I'm sure the devs like it when part of their player base tells another part to just not bother playing the game. That's definitely the goal of a type of company that measures their success by how many people are playing the thing they created. Or my other favorite "DE doesn't care about money, they removed the Kubrow randomizer." :facepalm: And then added in rivens, so instead of having to click a button a few hundred times to burn $50-200 of plat, you can do it with 4 clicks. If you think a monetization plan wasn't stuck in there with Nightwave too, you're either blind or willfully ignorant.

As for the missions themselves? As DE stated, they don't want scaling rewards incentivizing long runs. Then we get an hour of kuva survival and 40 waves of defense. Both of which can be messed up via ye olde host migration which has been an issue for ever, or someone deciding to troll. And forget the friend part. In all likelihood you're only going to see that person until that one mission is over. And then the gilding and wasting of forma, as if there weren't enough rep and time gates already.

As for Nora? How about a volume slider for her, like Ordis and the operator. So we can mute just Nora. Because I swear if I ever hear her talk about some back brain nonsense again, I'm gonna tickle the back of her brain with an Astilla slug.

Then we have the Wolf. I've seen him four times. Overall, the frequency of assassins showing up is definitely higher than usual, just not for the Wolf. *stares at the lone Sledge Head sitting in my inventory with hatred*

So, to summarize, I really hope Nightwave follows in the footsteps of spear guns. The Javlok was crap, the Ferrox was a huge improvement, the Scourge is just a nice weapon in general. That seems to be the usual progression in this game. The first iteration sucks, the seconds far better, they finally get it dialed in with the third. Honestly, DE should stop following "trends" in gaming. This live service nonsense is a sure way to burn out your players, but they probably wont just do something easy and sensible like adding alerts back into the game along side Nightwave. We'll just have to see.

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Posted (edited)

The old alerts were absolutely BORING! Nobody cared about alerts! They were never worth doing, and I'd completely stopped doing them (except when Gift of the Lotus came along offering catalysts or Riven mods).

The new Nightwave actually gives me something to do and work towards.

Personally, I don't get why people try to skip or ignore the Wolf. I wanna kill that SOB and get his hammer! He doesn't spawn enough! I wish he weren't such a bullet sponge, but he adds an element of chaos to the game that has long been lacking, and I hope they iterate on this to make it better.

Edited by DrakeWurrum
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1 minute ago, DrakeWurrum said:

The old alerts were absolutely BORING! Nobody cared about alerts! They were never worth doing, and I'd completely stopped doing them (except when Gift of the Lotus came along offering catalysts or Riven mods).

The new Nightwave actually gives me something to do and work towards.

Personally, I don't get why people try to skip or ignore the Wolf. I wanna kill that SOB and get his hammer! He doesn't spawn enough!

Personally I just think you should get Wolf (of whatever the current wave is) Credits for doing the missions and just spend them on whatever you want to from the list of rewards. There shouldn't a be a battle pass tier system because this type of system pretty much screws anyone who didn't play for the first week or two of the wave.

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My personal nightwave feedback: im trying to ignore it as much as possible. Please help me do so in further coming versions of nightwave.

Problem: while unlocking the starchart with clanmates, we often get annoyed by this random big damned wolfdude. We're not even nearly endgame material and this guy just spawns in to ruin the game for us.

Solution: give us a toggle button on mission start to not allow for the chance to have anything nightwave related spawn in. Not even those annoying 3 dudes with firebombs. They give laughably useless standing anyway. 150 for all 3 is not noticably gonna help fill bars of 10.000. Might as well remove them completely.

The only reason i've bothered with nightwave is to get nitain extract to build a prime frame. I got that now, so im back to ignoring it all. I dont care for some weird forma i dont have mods for anyway. If people wanna ignore it all, like the old alerts, please allow them to do so in peace.

Thanks for reading

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Posted (edited)

Please remove the "friend" requirement from challenges.  As is they are just causing recruiting spam, temporary friend list expansion and needless frustration caused by unpredictable disconnects.

Edited by xRufus7x
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10 hours ago, (NSW)IronElemental said:

My personal nightwave feedback: im trying to ignore it as much as possible. Please help me do so in further coming versions of nightwave.

Problem: while unlocking the starchart with clanmates, we often get annoyed by this random big damned wolfdude. We're not even nearly endgame material and this guy just spawns in to ruin the game for us.

Solution: give us a toggle button on mission start to not allow for the chance to have anything nightwave related spawn in. Not even those annoying 3 dudes with firebombs. They give laughably useless standing anyway. 150 for all 3 is not noticably gonna help fill bars of 10.000. Might as well remove them completely.

A toggle button is probably not the right way to approach that, but i agree, anyone not dealing with nightwave for whatever reason should not be bothered by the wolf or his henchmen. An easy solution would be to only have them spawn when people reach a certain nightwave rank. So for example, if the whole squad is at least rank 10, have the henchmen spawn and from rank 15 the wolf too.

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Posted (edited)

I think the best solution for this is to have the nightseries set as toggleable missions with their own set of rewards. The weekly missions remain the same but the points go in the active quest sequence selected by the user. The only thing the players will miss is the wolf hammer and the point boost from inmates. The points earned from current event boss or spawns will go into the global active event.

Edited by Shaden73
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