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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback


SilverBones
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I'm now beginning to think NW's back fired. It sped up the burnout for many players. They found it unsatisfying as the grind stretched it out unnecessarily and then were told they would have to do the same all thing over again. Indefinitely by the looks of things. 10 weeks to move forward just with the story and then all the grinding in between just doesn't seem productive in the long run.

Perhaps a better approach would of been to let NW be similar to how Syndicates are. No more Wolf Credits. The challenges players complete award standing that can be used to purchase Daily Rewards as they progress or stack their standing to unlock the next Rank/Episode of NW. Players also then earn a lore appropriate reward from Nora, similar to how players get a free reward with other factions. Once at max rank players could unlock a node that's an Assassination Mission with the Wolf. In post gameplay players would then have the ability to do challenges at their leisure. A mix of challenges awarding high or low standing then determine what/how many Daily Rewards a player can purchase that day.The daily standing cap could also be applied here.

The theory here is that this method of NW could keep the player engaged with the gameplay they like, invested in story that delivers as they progress, and provides incentive for the time they spend as they rank up. Doing all of this within a more comfortable time frame so that fatigue and "rushing to get them all" doesn't compromise the experience. The story portion would all be with the initial climb up to max rank, then lets the pursuit of Daily Rewards take a far more passive role once players have achieved max level and the NW arc is completed.

However, for this idea I would also suggest getting rid of some current rank up rewards and only keeping the ones relevant to NW's lore. I don't think it would hurt to allow Nora's awards to continue to rotate and change, though.

Edited by (PS4)FatMacBrbn
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7 hours ago, (PS4)FatMacBrbn said:

I'm now beginning to think NW's back fired. It sped up the burnout for many players. They found it unsatisfying as the grind stretched it out unnecessarily and then were told they would have to do the same all thing over again. Indefinitely by the looks of things. 10 weeks to move forward just with the story and then all the grinding in between just doesn't seem productive in the long run.

Definitely backfired. Now that this season is about to end, many people reached rank 30 and are happy the grind is over and are taking a break from the game altogether. And i doubt that for the last month anyone seriously started with nightwave as they would not have a chance to get anywhere anyway. It gets even more obvious looking at the warframe twitch partners. They either didn't even start with nightwave or stopped streaming warframe as soon as they were done. I'm subscribed to two warframe-exclusive streamers who now plan to stream other games too - after not playing warframe for a week or two.

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Not surprised really, beside that the recent dev video did nothing to assuage fears that the next Nightflush/wave chapter would be any form of improvement, a few tweaks here & there, maintaining the fake friending mechanic & oh Alliances, hey go check how many active clans there are on Switch before that sounds like an option, I come back & routinely see within a 3-4 hour span someone asks if a clan went away or if anyone from it is still active or online playing.

I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt that the changes will be acceptable per the level of grind, seriously add rewards commensurate with the effort involved & you'd see people playing warframe with a Guitar hero controller for 3 umbral forma.

But in the end I would say maybe the folks at DE should spend a few weeks trying their hand at all this as brand new players on Switch then see how much "improvement" they've brought to the game with all this.

Anyway, still holding out a thin line of hope that they listened to the vitriolic feedback they've had months to read & improve on, otherwise theres gonna be tumbleweeds rolling through the community for a few months.

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On 2019-05-06 at 1:38 PM, random__noob said:

WE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS OBNOXIOUS STUFF FOR A WHILE NOW AND WE CERTAINLY DONT WANT TO SPEND HALF A YEAR WORRYING ABOUT NIGHTWAVE! 10 weeks was an abomination and you suggest "lets make this 20% less grindy?"

The alternative would be to bring back the old alert system, which I doubt they are going to do.

Their goal with a smaller grind is probably to turn this more into background "dailies," like sorties are.  I guess the only real alternative would be something like "signing up" for a week of Nightwave as part of a season, and have everyone progressing through the seasons at completely different rates, which has its own issues.

Unless they throw away the entire thing, these will be permanent.  On the bright side for you guys, once you have the credit offerings, there's really no gameplay reason to do Nightwave.

 

Edit:  just to clarify though, I feel like you guys are right.  It seems to be accelerating some peoples' burnout, and that will likely have negative side effects for the game.  If it was more of a background thing, or had a very quickly completable system before prestige ranks that people could do and then forget about it, it may have gone better.  But the fact that everybody's gotta have their special forma and that people were freaking out that DE would end it before anyone could finish it, means those people burned out.

Edited by (PS4)BenHeisennberg
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I believe that Nightwave was not an attempt to better the game experience for the players. It was not, as was touted, a way to remove the 'missing out' from something that an Alert offered for a limited time. If that was the motivation, there are many easy ways to address it. Extend the Alert duration for desirable rewards is one way.

Add the Nightwave system to the existing Alert system is another way. If you want to grind away at random tasks that may or may not interest you so that you can eventually get exactly the thing you wanted, Nightwave gives you a guarantee. If they had kept the Alert system but added Nightwave, maybe you will get lucky and be available to play when it's part of the Alert system rewards. You think they have any problem with making people get lucky? Try cracking open some relics, once you are lucky enough to get the relic you need. Then get an Ivara warframe. And an Ash. And most of them.

No, Nightwave was not motivated by a desire to improve the game for players. It was motivated by a desire to control the economy of items that can be purchased for platinum. Under Alerts, if you played more, you got more. There was no effective hard cap of  'Wolf creds' that limited you to 1 potato per week at best and that only if you got nothing else. 

Nightwave does not exist to make the game better. It exists to make the game more profitable. They will never return to the Alert system, because it interferes with their desired monetization of the game. Warframe is free to play, and I believe that it has the least intrusive monetization system of any free to play game. Nevertheless, I would have preferred more honesty in their disclosure of motivation.

If Nightwave was meant to fix the shortcomings of the Alert system from a player's point of view, it would have supplemented Alerts and not replaced them. But it's not meant to do that. It's meant to provide incentive to the people who play the game the most to buy platinum.

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5 hours ago, MallocErr said:

It was motivated by a desire to control the economy of items that can be purchased for platinum. Under Alerts, if you played more, you got more. There was no effective hard cap of  'Wolf creds' that limited you to 1 potato per week at best and that only if you got nothing else. 

That makes sense and also seems to be a trend in other missions where in the past you could obtain forma or potatoes, which is Invasions. There has been a noticable decline in potatoes there. I get what you mean when you say you want the open debate.

I also get what DE needs and wants, which is a constant drain of available plat from the players. However I am not sure this really will work out. I as a veteran have stored up a lot of potatoes, but newer players certainly dont. Look at this mess through the eyes of a newbie. Without knowledge of how to obtain several absolute key components to your builds (prime frames and weapons, potatoes, plenty of forma, several rare nightmare and corrupted mods, auras) you will feel like you arent going anywhere for an extended period of time, and that feeling is quite accurate. Asking the new players right out of the gates for money to spend on plat because there just isnt a reasonable way for new players to just luck out and get a free potatoe is likely driving away quite a few players. If you add to that the intense welcome-grindwall that is nightwave, you as a fresh player dont feel like you can rank up in mastery, collect key resources, play story quests and rank up syndicates and Fortuna standings as well. There are only so many hours in a day.

Why should they then pay money for potatoes when what they get in return is so many kicks in the balls? How do you intend to hook players in? With Nora's pretentious and weak ripoff of Ursula Rucker and the DJ from the Warriors movie?

Back in the days we were told by space mom what to do, and when and where, and for some reason, I prefer her to Nora. I guess it has something to do with the upcoming story line stuff, but Nora could and likely should just have been the Lotus, from a functional point of view. I know that DE wrote themselves into a corner with that one, but think about it: Shouldnt I be able to turn off a radio? We were never able or incentivised to turn off the Lotus as she is our mission command and sort of hacked into our uplink, but Nora? Shes a RADIO DJ... How is that functionally reasonable?

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~

Every day 3 Nightwave missions will appear on the map.
The missions will be against the act's Faction, (Wolf's Fugitives right now)
and reward Nightwave Credits and Standing for beating them.
The level of the enemies, and the credits/standing you get as the reward are based on your Rank in the Nightwave Event.
At Rank 0 enemies are level 5. Each rank increases the level of enemies by 2, so at Rank 30 enemies are level 65.
At Rank 0 missions Give 5 Credits and 100 Standing. Each rank increases Credits by 1 and Standing by 100%.
So a Rank 30 mission would give 35 credits, and 3600 Standing.

When new dailies/weeklies/elite weeklies show up,
they don't expire so you can do them when you have time to do them.
The dailies/weeklies/elite weeklies are random for each player,
and you can't have the same one multiple times.

Every week the items in the shop change.
Always 5 helmets, 5 mods, 5 weapon skins, 5 resources, each.
Catalyst, Reactor, Forma, Adapter, Egg, DNA, Nitain always available.
Aura Forma and Umbral Forma are also always available,
but each player can only buy 1 per Nightwave Event.

Common resources should be 100 for 5 credits.
Uncommon resources should be 10 for 5 credits.
Rare resources should be 1 for 5 credits.
Endo should be 250 for 5 credits.
Kuva should be 100 for 5 credits.
Kavat DNA should be 10 for 15 credits.
Kubrow Eggs should be 1 for 15 credits.
Weapon Blueprints should be 25 credits.
Weapon skin Blueprints should be 35 credits.
Helmet blueprints should be 35 credits.
Arcane Helmet blueprints should be 100 credits. (1 purchase, per helmet, per player, per event)
Aura mods should be 25 credits.
Formas should be 30 credits.
Catalysts/Reactors should be 40 credits.
Exilus Adapter should be 50 credits.
Aura Forma should be 100 credits. (1 purchase per player per event)
Umbral Forma should be 150 credits. (1 purchase per player per event)
Nightwave Event Decoration should be 40 credits.

On the last week of the Nightwave a new node opens up where you can fight the Act's boss enemy as many times as you want.

~

Edited by General_Durandal
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On 2019-05-06 at 4:42 AM, Marine027 said:

Can only agree, her Character is well done but feels out of place and not introduced or even cared about, i wouldn't mind if she would talk on the relays and people would talk about her atleast to acknowledge that she exists, i mean she seems to know way to much at times also and feels like a replacement for Lotus already so someone babysits us still and "rewards" us like the children we are if we "done good".

For me, the system is a nice idea but as always lately with some updates we simply lack lore and story for it, Wolf is kinda nice but feels also just latched on to have someone "menacing", i mean Assassins like the Stalker, G3 and Zanuka atleast have story, G3 in there Codex, same for Stalker and he was part of the main Quests, Zanuka you know partly that its a copy of the Original Zanuka that you destroyed already, etc. Bosses like Vor got proper introduction, Lotus talks about them who they are and what rank or so.

Maroo has more story to her then Nora has, i even dare to say that Clem has more personality and Story then her and the Wolf together.

Wolf has story. More will be revealed I'd bet.

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vor 12 Minuten schrieb (PS4)big_eviljak:

Wolf has story. More will be revealed I'd bet.

I agree yes, he does, he still develops of course. Yet he still feels lackluster, no speaking to us like the others do, just dumb grunts, he is basically the tank from Left 4 Dead at the moment.

I just hope Nightwave does introduce more to him and not just skips to the next session while he still appears and just acts like a walking train slamming trough people mindlesly.

The problem me and others mainly see is,he jsut got slapped on mostly into the game, even Nox and Burasas had a proper introduction, he seems ot come out of nowhere for me, some prison we never heard about and apperently exist six of accordign to its name, them going after us and ignoring Grineer and Corpus alike desptie us presented as rouge units.

Personal opinion and all simply. I do actually hope it gets better thou and not just stays another assasination or death squad like the syndicats.

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1 hour ago, Marine027 said:

I agree yes, he does, he still develops of course. Yet he still feels lackluster, no speaking to us like the others do, just dumb grunts, he is basically the tank from Left 4 Dead at the moment.

I just hope Nightwave does introduce more to him and not just skips to the next session while he still appears and just acts like a walking train slamming trough people mindlesly.

The problem me and others mainly see is,he jsut got slapped on mostly into the game, even Nox and Burasas had a proper introduction, he seems ot come out of nowhere for me, some prison we never heard about and apperently exist six of accordign to its name, them going after us and ignoring Grineer and Corpus alike desptie us presented as rouge units.

Personal opinion and all simply. I do actually hope it gets better thou and not just stays another assasination or death squad like the syndicats.

I think it would be cool if we could break into the prison... Dig up some more lore about him. Maybe even uncover some other hidden secrets.

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Ok, since this particular event is nearly over I figured now would be a decent time to give some feedback.

I think the most important thing you need to do is Show how much time is left for each Act. I know this was a experimental first and you weren't sure how long it would last, but I've seen lots of post here and on the wiki asking how much time was left and if they had enough time to hit rank 30. About a week ago I saw a post saying it'd last until at least the 15th which is good to know, but that needs to be in the game, not some post on the forum that most players would never read. Put the earliest end date on the nightwave screen, and if you decide to extend the date you can change there too.

Another thing I think needs changing is Show all the buy-able items instead of randomly cycling them. This really pissed me off at one point. Two deco helms I didn't have showed up one week. I only had enough credits to buy one before the end of the week, and with the long gap between credit rewards, no chance to get more. Will it come back before the end of this event removes all my credits? Who knows? If I remember right, one of your goals was to let players choose what type of reward they wanted/thought was most important, and you really can't choose if you don't know what is available because most of it is locked behind a RNG gate.

Third thing isn't completely specific to Nightwave. Add a "Hide Crafted" option to go with the "Hide Owned" option. It'd just making sorting through some of the "very" long lists easier and help avoid mistakes of not noticing the little "crafted" marker and buying a second copy of something (which I have done).

Fourth thing is the "Do XXXX with a friend or guildmate." While they're not that bad, I'm not a big fan of them, mainly because I'm a fairly introverted person who only has a couple of friends who play this game and only one of them would be able to do the harder mission this restriction gets put on.

Final main point is the Wolf himself. I know you wanted to make a cool challenging enemy, but most of the challenge seems to be he's incredibly bullet spongey, and his invulnerable friends like chucking area of effect DoTs that do a lot of damage (yes, it's been lowered to a more reasonable amount at the end, but that's only the last couple of days of the event). I'm sorry, but bullet spongey isn't challenging it's just tedious. I don't really have any advice on how to make something cool and challenging, but when I can (depending how i'm geared) unload literally all of my ammo for all my weapons into a mid level enemy and take away 1/3 of his HP that's just bad. As a side note, I know you've (finally) given us a couple of missions where the wolf is guaranteed so we can finish grinding out his drops (which is good, thank you). But putting rewards behind multiple layers of RNG is just bad. I spent nine hours (with an average mission time of ~2 minutes (with load time) to finally get all his drops. That would have been flat impossible when over the whole course of this event I've seen him about 14 times (a couple of which he bugged out and disappeared).

There's been a lot of talking about how slow credits come, how expensive some of the stuff is, and so on. I kinda see both ways with this. Can't make it too fast/easy to get stuff, but getting credits every couple of weeks seems a bit too slow. Not sure how to solve that, but it probably needs some tinkering.

I'm also a little disappointed by how little there is to do with the Nightwave. I usually get all the Nightwave missions done in a day or two, leaving me with one mission a day for the rest of the week.

Finally, why remove the secondary objectives in missions? Sure the exp they give is tiny, and there's only a handful of them, and they were simply, but it was still something to encourage me to break up the monotony a bit by changing up weapons or whatever while running a mission for the God-knows-how-manyth time.

All put, it's a decent start and I'm hoping you all can build it up into something really good. And I wanted to say "Thank You" to DE. Sure, you make design decisions that make me question your sanity, there are tons of bugs, and you rely way too much on grindy and RNG to retain players and extend play time, but you've made a game I (and many others) love and have put thousands of hours into over the last 5 years, and it can be really easy to lose sight of that with so many complaints from the community.

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On 2019-05-02 at 3:51 PM, (XB1)XArch AngelX86 said:

The Problem i have with this Nightwave thing is that its another syndicate grind more or less but you are also limited to the amount of rep ur getting, its just a disguised syndicate. another problem with it is how its time gated and your major progress in it lies in weekly challenges which i miss out on a lot due to having to travel a lot, i only get like 1 day a week if that and have missed out on multiple weeks of it. I have barely even reached half way and im apparently expected to get to rank 30. I'm at the point in the game were something like the umbra forma is my only sort of progression for me and its locked behind a grind wall i have to be stupid active to achieve. its as if i am to be punished because im not a child anymore and don't have time in my life to actually play the game, iv been playing the game since pretty much release on both PC and when Xbox came out i moved to that and iv never felt well so hopeless that the sense of progression i can do is time gated syndicate that resets itself, its as if the hardcore community is only what the game is about at this point and sure maybe please them but throwing out a bunch of ur players because they have lives and cant dedicate themselves to your game anymore is rude.

 

The only thing i guess i can suggest would be:

- Allow progress to be carried over into next season of it and until one get to rank 30 in it they cannot progress to next season or something

- Allow us to use our wolf credits to buy levels something like i guess 10 per level

- Alternatively let us just buy the rewards we wanted or give us a single pick of what we wanted from all of the rewards at the end of the season that we didn't reach, this i believe would allow people like me that have barely any time to play what we wanted even if it was one item some sort of closure

I use to be a hardcore player playing every day nearly but now that i am out of school and have a life i feel like i am just getting punished digging my own hole and being buried and forgotten about in it

I would like to come back to this,  after reading that they want to add a catch up mechanic it doesn't seem they want to add it so we can finish season 1 and get to rank 30 effectively splitting the player base m people that have the things like umbra forma allowing for warframes to be stupid powerful if moded correctly and the players that didn't reach rank 30 completely miss out on Thor's rewards with no other way to get them leaving them inherently weaker,having this time gated battle pass bullS#&$ syndicate grind trash. Yes you should give people that have no life spend all week playing the game the rewards they need but people move on from that and sometimes can't even play the game and not allowing Those people a proper reasonable chance to get the rewards is Rude and separating the player base. The catch up needs to be there for season one and all seasons need to be playable no matter what.

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55 minutes ago, (XB1)XArch AngelX86 said:

people that have the things like umbra forma allowing for warframes to be stupid powerful if moded correctly and the players that didn't reach rank 30 completely miss out on Thor's rewards with no other way to get them leaving them inherently weaker

Most of my arsenal of Warframes is complete overkill for anywhere I take it, and only one of them has umbral forma.

My fancy forma went on Titania.  She isn't more powerful, just has enough space for me to do a meme build now.

My Chroma still 1-shots everything.  My Inaros still can't die.  Everything else I have was and is strong enough to trivialize the entire game.

If umbral forma is necessary for a player to complete missions quickly and effectively, I know of some builds videos (from before the fancy forma) that I would recommend.

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1 час назад, (XB1)XArch AngelX86 сказал:

splitting the player base m people that have the things like umbra forma

That doesn't really help that much to be honest. I have that forma, I don't use it. Cause for me it will be of any use if I have like 15 of that forma. Seems like a couple of years before that happens, unless they will allow the acquisition of umbra forma somewhere in the new war with reasonable drop rates.

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After I hit rank 30, I logged in for log-in rewards for a couple days, and then stopped bothering even with that.

Now I learned that Wolf is readily accessible in-game for a few more days? I'm not sure, it sounded like someone said something which implied that, but rather than look into it and maybe go farm him for a couple missing hammer parts, I'm going to uninstall WF, because I can use that space on my SSD for other games that are actually fun...

Nightwave killed WF for me. It was exhausting, it demanded too much of my time, it caused me stress, it had negative effects on my life outside of WF, it felt like work, it was all of the reasons I don't play mobile games.

I don't have any confidence that DE is going to fix this mess. I expect they will make minor tweaks to try to make it slightly more bearable. That is completely unacceptable to me. This system needs to be completely overhauled with a totally different set of design goals, and alerts need to be brought back and improved on as well. But I don't think either of those things will happen.

I came back to WF after not playing for years, was really enjoying the game, and all the added content. I was very impressed with all the improvements. Some things still needed improving and some aspects seemed poorly conceived, but overall, it was great and I was really excited to be playing WF again. Then Nightwave hit, and completely killed my enthusiasm to play WF. It became a job, and I toughed it out and got to Rank 30, but that took all the motivation to play WF I had to offer, and left me empty. This is not entertainment, it is simply psychological manipulation tricking people into persisting with something that they aren't actually enjoying.

I've been playing other PC games since I finished nightwave and I've been really enjoying them. Not chipping away at them endlessly despite not actually enjoying myself. They are actually entertaining and they ask nothing of me other than being entertained. If they become anything other than entertaining, I can turn them off, and come back to them whenever I feel like it, without fear of missing out on anything.

History will not look kindly on the developers that try to squeeze their players in this current trend of anti-consumer anti-fun games-as-services trend. WF was one of the only f2p game-as-service games that was being developed with any integrity at all. Nightwave is a thinly veiled attempt to squeeze their players and as such it represents DEs fall from grace, as it has changed WF from the only good f2p game into just another example of why I don't play f2p games.

I will go away now. Probably won't be posting on these forums any more. Won't be playing WF anymore. Maybe I'll check back in after a couple years and see if this mess was sorted out, or if it simply served to sort out the player base, retaining only gluttons for punishment with deep pockets.

I doubt anyone from DE will even read this, but if they do, DE you have done some incredible work, don't ruin it now. I hope I will be pleasantly surprised and impressed when I come back a few years from now.

Goodbye for now WF.

Edited by Arc5in
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5 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Most of my arsenal of Warframes is complete overkill for anywhere I take it, and only one of them has umbral forma.

My fancy forma went on Titania.  She isn't more powerful, just has enough space for me to do a meme build now.

My Chroma still 1-shots everything.  My Inaros still can't die.  Everything else I have was and is strong enough to trivialize the entire game.

If umbral forma is necessary for a player to complete missions quickly and effectively, I know of some builds videos (from before the fancy forma) that I would recommend.

maybe for you but you are limiting urself to specif frames it seems dedicated to a specific task or a certain thing, you mod ur warframes in a typical manner and yes the game is easy but compared to you i was once one of thoes sever hard core players that did stuff to the point where the scaling was so broken it was unbelievable. id also like the point that it seems you have no idea how much something like an umbra forma can modify a build and how much of a difference and power creep it provides, i have mained saryn since the start and umbra mods coming around has allowed me to have a full positive build on all my stats none of it goes under 100% and getting the forma allows someone like me to finally max those mods allowing such and increase in the performance to trump ur normal things and leaving that kind of "progress" behind a resetting time gated syndicate grind locks portions of the player base that can no longer dedicate their lives to the game or never will to even reach it and alienates them locking them away from things they wish they could have but cannot get all because timed exclusive grind, yes cosmetics are semi acceptable for that kind of thing even though it shouldnt but items that actually matter are another story something like the umbra forma maybe be useless to you but not for others

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My 3 cents:

1. Give us a timer showing how long this series will last. This way we can calculate what we have to do in order to get the rewards we want. I was grinding my ass off for the first few weeks, to later discover I have plenty of time and didn't need to stress over it. 

2. This is a suggestion for the task system. Instead of giving us 7 weekly tasks (like you stated you're going to do) and a daily, just give us 10 random tasks, which we can delete and get new ones in 30 minutes. This way we could actually have some control over the tasks we want to do and play specific mission types we want rewards from. I know some people might get lucky and get 10 Elite ones, so to not make things too fast, just put a daily Nightwave Standing cap, same as with other Syndicates. This will also push people to rank up their Mastery, so they craft more weapons/frames. More Mastery = more daily standing possible. 

Right now we can get ~50K standing weekly. With my system MR15 player could get that in 3 days, but MR24 player would need just 2 days. Less grind to get best rewards + some control over tasks + interest to rank up Mastery. "Isn't that wonderful?" - Nef Anyo.

If that's still too fast ranking up for you, let's just make each rank require 500 Standing more than previous one. First few ranks will go blazing fast, but further down the road ranking up will increase in difficulty. 

3. Also give us more than 30 Nightwave Ranks, but put the best rewards in those 30. Meaning, give us some Endo, Kuva, Forma, Void Traces, Relics, whatever, alongside Creds after Rank 30. People playing long enough don't need creds, since they have all the helmets and auras from the old alert system. New players need Creds alongside those resources. This way it will push veteran players to do Nightwave tasks past Rank 30. 

 

I get it that not everyone will like those suggestions, but I think this way many people will feel less "forced" to do some task, especially when they will have control over what tasks to do. Numbers are a subject to change, no stress there.

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I had good time with season 1 of nightwave.

Highlights: I got motivated to do Lua challenges which I always hated, I've run some vault and nightmare missions which I have not done in a very long time.

What I really really wanted and it didn't happen - since you gave us Saturn six captura scene I was hoping that some kind of "kill the wolf" fight will be happening there since the map was ready, maybe like the last tile to a map instead of Saturn boss hangar tile.

Downsides: wolf hammer parts drop chance and insane price of said parts, wolf was too much nerfed for the tactical alert.

Side note: I really liked the wolf fight before the tactical alert, slightly too long, but overall a nice challenge.

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2 hours ago, (XB1)XArch AngelX86 said:

maybe for you but you are limiting urself to specif frames it seems dedicated to a specific task or a certain thing, you mod ur warframes in a typical manner and yes the game is easy but compared to you i was once one of thoes sever hard core players that did stuff to the point where the scaling was so broken it was unbelievable. id also like the point that it seems you have no idea how much something like an umbra forma can modify a build and how much of a difference and power creep it provides, i have mained saryn since the start and umbra mods coming around has allowed me to have a full positive build on all my stats none of it goes under 100% and getting the forma allows someone like me to finally max those mods allowing such and increase in the performance to trump ur normal things and leaving that kind of "progress" behind a resetting time gated syndicate grind locks portions of the player base that can no longer dedicate their lives to the game or never will to even reach it and alienates them locking them away from things they wish they could have but cannot get all because timed exclusive grind, yes cosmetics are semi acceptable for that kind of thing even though it shouldnt but items that actually matter are another story something like the umbra forma maybe be useless to you but not for others

It is hard for me to read this wall of text, so to respond to the first part:

"maybe for you but you are limiting urself to specif frames it seems dedicated to a specific task or a certain thing"

I can beat almost everything in the game with Nyx.  I mainly use "non meta" Warframes.  As for Saryn, I have gone 15 zones in ESO with Saryn.  Neither of them had Umbral forma, what they had were decent builds and smart playstyles.  Nobody is locked out of that.

So unless you still think that putting umbral forma on Titania made me super powerful beyond what I was before...  No, not really.

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I'm probably a little late to this party and I am not going to go through 105 pages of feedback, so here's hoping I'm not repeating a point/suggestion made by others.. or if I am, hope DE would pay more attention ^_^

So my primary problem with Nightwave is that it is too clunky for new players to the game. There are two things that new players mostly get stuck on in this game. That is credits and resources. The old alerts offered both items in considerable amounts. I created a separate account to try out the game as a fresh player after Nightwave started and have immediately noticed the hurdles that I didnt when I started originally.

Now one issue with nightwave is that it has removed that albeit small, but steady source of credits for new players, ones who havent unlocked index or cant or dont go farming endless missions. 5k-7k credits for one mission aside from the ones dropped in mission are good enough to sustain blueprint costs and such.

The second, and much bigger issue is Nitain Extract. Unlike before, now if you get a blueprint that needs 1-2 nitain extracts, you cant just do 2 alerts as soon as you see them up. Now you have to wait until you hit a nightwave rank that offers wolf creds. And unfortunately if you've just spent all your wolf creds, not knowing you'll need nitain, you might have to wait days, if not weeks. New players dont know enough about the game to plan these things in advance or to know what they'll need before they need it. There is a 6 rank gap between the rank 6 and rank 12 wolf cred reward. Thats crazy long. Especially for new players who cant do the elite tasks and not even all the weekly tasks...

My suggestion hence is that instead of rewarding 50 wolf creds every 3 levels. reward 15-20 wolf creds every level along with that level's separate reward.. So for example if applied to this Series 1, it would be Saturn Six Sigil and 20 wolf creds for rank 1, Wolf of Saturn Six Glyph and 20 creds for rank 2, some new reward and 20 wolf creds for rank 3.. and so on. That way the amount of wolf creds rewarded is pretty much the same, but in case some new player needs nitain urgently or some aura they want for a mission, they can just earn 1-2 ranks and quickly get what they want. 

I would also suggest adding some credit drops to either the tasks or the rewards, but thats a lesser concern.

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Rework The Reward Amounts (Wolf Creds): I currently have 70 wolf creds, and the only rewards left that are useful to me are reactors and catalysts. Given each rank after 30 gives 15 wolf creds I will never be able to spend all my wolf creds on rewards that I actually want. Once I'm able to afford a catalyst/reactor I will have 85 wolf creds, and thus my creds will drop down to 10 after buying another catalyst/reactor. Fast forward a few ranks, and the next time I can afford a Catalyst/Reactor will be once I reach 85 wolf creds again. The cycle repeats. Because of the amounts of creds rewarded throughout nightwave and after rank 30, it works out so that, in the best case scenario, I will have an extra 10 wolf creds I can't spend on anything I want. 

Players shouldn't have to spend on rewards they don't want simply to avoid wasting the currency. Please, just rework how many creds are rewarded and how many creds rewards cost, so all creds can be completely spent or rewards players want. If you want to keep the current payoff scheme, give players 1 wolf cred for each rank after 30, have the wolf cred rewards before thirty scale down, so that they are relatively just as large compared to the 1 wolf cred per rank after rank 30 (current amount / 15, and then round up if necesarry), and re-calibrate reward prices accordingly so that reward prices are relatively (more or less) just as expensive. This would allow players to much more easily spend all their creds on anything they want, without having leftovers. For example, reactors and catalysts would costs 5 wolf creds as a result of the new system. Same relative price, only there won't be leftovers. 

Edited by Jamescell
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10 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

It is hard for me to read this wall of text, so to respond to the first part:

"maybe for you but you are limiting urself to specif frames it seems dedicated to a specific task or a certain thing"

I can beat almost everything in the game with Nyx.  I mainly use "non meta" Warframes.  As for Saryn, I have gone 15 zones in ESO with Saryn.  Neither of them had Umbral forma, what they had were decent builds and smart playstyles.  Nobody is locked out of that.

So unless you still think that putting umbral forma on Titania made me super powerful beyond what I was before...  No, not really.

You instantly have shown me you have no idea what you are talking about the huge difference in stats the umbra mods provide when maxed, you don't understand the freedom they allow you to expand apon take the umbra intensify when maxed and paired with the other two mods it's 66% power instead of 30% or do you still not understand what I'm blabbering on about and the power creep that is possible with these mods you are seeming to refuse 

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