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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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1 hour ago, Marine027 said:

I agree yes, he does, he still develops of course. Yet he still feels lackluster, no speaking to us like the others do, just dumb grunts, he is basically the tank from Left 4 Dead at the moment.

I just hope Nightwave does introduce more to him and not just skips to the next session while he still appears and just acts like a walking train slamming trough people mindlesly.

The problem me and others mainly see is,he jsut got slapped on mostly into the game, even Nox and Burasas had a proper introduction, he seems ot come out of nowhere for me, some prison we never heard about and apperently exist six of accordign to its name, them going after us and ignoring Grineer and Corpus alike desptie us presented as rouge units.

Personal opinion and all simply. I do actually hope it gets better thou and not just stays another assasination or death squad like the syndicats.

I think it would be cool if we could break into the prison... Dig up some more lore about him. Maybe even uncover some other hidden secrets.

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Ok, since this particular event is nearly over I figured now would be a decent time to give some feedback.

I think the most important thing you need to do is Show how much time is left for each Act. I know this was a experimental first and you weren't sure how long it would last, but I've seen lots of post here and on the wiki asking how much time was left and if they had enough time to hit rank 30. About a week ago I saw a post saying it'd last until at least the 15th which is good to know, but that needs to be in the game, not some post on the forum that most players would never read. Put the earliest end date on the nightwave screen, and if you decide to extend the date you can change there too.

Another thing I think needs changing is Show all the buy-able items instead of randomly cycling them. This really pissed me off at one point. Two deco helms I didn't have showed up one week. I only had enough credits to buy one before the end of the week, and with the long gap between credit rewards, no chance to get more. Will it come back before the end of this event removes all my credits? Who knows? If I remember right, one of your goals was to let players choose what type of reward they wanted/thought was most important, and you really can't choose if you don't know what is available because most of it is locked behind a RNG gate.

Third thing isn't completely specific to Nightwave. Add a "Hide Crafted" option to go with the "Hide Owned" option. It'd just making sorting through some of the "very" long lists easier and help avoid mistakes of not noticing the little "crafted" marker and buying a second copy of something (which I have done).

Fourth thing is the "Do XXXX with a friend or guildmate." While they're not that bad, I'm not a big fan of them, mainly because I'm a fairly introverted person who only has a couple of friends who play this game and only one of them would be able to do the harder mission this restriction gets put on.

Final main point is the Wolf himself. I know you wanted to make a cool challenging enemy, but most of the challenge seems to be he's incredibly bullet spongey, and his invulnerable friends like chucking area of effect DoTs that do a lot of damage (yes, it's been lowered to a more reasonable amount at the end, but that's only the last couple of days of the event). I'm sorry, but bullet spongey isn't challenging it's just tedious. I don't really have any advice on how to make something cool and challenging, but when I can (depending how i'm geared) unload literally all of my ammo for all my weapons into a mid level enemy and take away 1/3 of his HP that's just bad. As a side note, I know you've (finally) given us a couple of missions where the wolf is guaranteed so we can finish grinding out his drops (which is good, thank you). But putting rewards behind multiple layers of RNG is just bad. I spent nine hours (with an average mission time of ~2 minutes (with load time) to finally get all his drops. That would have been flat impossible when over the whole course of this event I've seen him about 14 times (a couple of which he bugged out and disappeared).

There's been a lot of talking about how slow credits come, how expensive some of the stuff is, and so on. I kinda see both ways with this. Can't make it too fast/easy to get stuff, but getting credits every couple of weeks seems a bit too slow. Not sure how to solve that, but it probably needs some tinkering.

I'm also a little disappointed by how little there is to do with the Nightwave. I usually get all the Nightwave missions done in a day or two, leaving me with one mission a day for the rest of the week.

Finally, why remove the secondary objectives in missions? Sure the exp they give is tiny, and there's only a handful of them, and they were simply, but it was still something to encourage me to break up the monotony a bit by changing up weapons or whatever while running a mission for the God-knows-how-manyth time.

All put, it's a decent start and I'm hoping you all can build it up into something really good. And I wanted to say "Thank You" to DE. Sure, you make design decisions that make me question your sanity, there are tons of bugs, and you rely way too much on grindy and RNG to retain players and extend play time, but you've made a game I (and many others) love and have put thousands of hours into over the last 5 years, and it can be really easy to lose sight of that with so many complaints from the community.

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On 2019-05-02 at 3:51 PM, (XB1)XArch AngelX86 said:

The Problem i have with this Nightwave thing is that its another syndicate grind more or less but you are also limited to the amount of rep ur getting, its just a disguised syndicate. another problem with it is how its time gated and your major progress in it lies in weekly challenges which i miss out on a lot due to having to travel a lot, i only get like 1 day a week if that and have missed out on multiple weeks of it. I have barely even reached half way and im apparently expected to get to rank 30. I'm at the point in the game were something like the umbra forma is my only sort of progression for me and its locked behind a grind wall i have to be stupid active to achieve. its as if i am to be punished because im not a child anymore and don't have time in my life to actually play the game, iv been playing the game since pretty much release on both PC and when Xbox came out i moved to that and iv never felt well so hopeless that the sense of progression i can do is time gated syndicate that resets itself, its as if the hardcore community is only what the game is about at this point and sure maybe please them but throwing out a bunch of ur players because they have lives and cant dedicate themselves to your game anymore is rude.

 

The only thing i guess i can suggest would be:

- Allow progress to be carried over into next season of it and until one get to rank 30 in it they cannot progress to next season or something

- Allow us to use our wolf credits to buy levels something like i guess 10 per level

- Alternatively let us just buy the rewards we wanted or give us a single pick of what we wanted from all of the rewards at the end of the season that we didn't reach, this i believe would allow people like me that have barely any time to play what we wanted even if it was one item some sort of closure

I use to be a hardcore player playing every day nearly but now that i am out of school and have a life i feel like i am just getting punished digging my own hole and being buried and forgotten about in it

I would like to come back to this,  after reading that they want to add a catch up mechanic it doesn't seem they want to add it so we can finish season 1 and get to rank 30 effectively splitting the player base m people that have the things like umbra forma allowing for warframes to be stupid powerful if moded correctly and the players that didn't reach rank 30 completely miss out on Thor's rewards with no other way to get them leaving them inherently weaker,having this time gated battle pass bullS#&$ syndicate grind trash. Yes you should give people that have no life spend all week playing the game the rewards they need but people move on from that and sometimes can't even play the game and not allowing Those people a proper reasonable chance to get the rewards is Rude and separating the player base. The catch up needs to be there for season one and all seasons need to be playable no matter what.

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55 minutes ago, (XB1)XArch AngelX86 said:

people that have the things like umbra forma allowing for warframes to be stupid powerful if moded correctly and the players that didn't reach rank 30 completely miss out on Thor's rewards with no other way to get them leaving them inherently weaker

Most of my arsenal of Warframes is complete overkill for anywhere I take it, and only one of them has umbral forma.

My fancy forma went on Titania.  She isn't more powerful, just has enough space for me to do a meme build now.

My Chroma still 1-shots everything.  My Inaros still can't die.  Everything else I have was and is strong enough to trivialize the entire game.

If umbral forma is necessary for a player to complete missions quickly and effectively, I know of some builds videos (from before the fancy forma) that I would recommend.

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On 2019-03-04 at 6:53 PM, Voltage said:

less grind will ultimately lead to less gameplay and more content drought.

totally agree, please dont make anything too easy

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1 час назад, (XB1)XArch AngelX86 сказал:

splitting the player base m people that have the things like umbra forma

That doesn't really help that much to be honest. I have that forma, I don't use it. Cause for me it will be of any use if I have like 15 of that forma. Seems like a couple of years before that happens, unless they will allow the acquisition of umbra forma somewhere in the new war with reasonable drop rates.

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Posted (edited)

After I hit rank 30, I logged in for log-in rewards for a couple days, and then stopped bothering even with that.

Now I learned that Wolf is readily accessible in-game for a few more days? I'm not sure, it sounded like someone said something which implied that, but rather than look into it and maybe go farm him for a couple missing hammer parts, I'm going to uninstall WF, because I can use that space on my SSD for other games that are actually fun...

Nightwave killed WF for me. It was exhausting, it demanded too much of my time, it caused me stress, it had negative effects on my life outside of WF, it felt like work, it was all of the reasons I don't play mobile games.

I don't have any confidence that DE is going to fix this mess. I expect they will make minor tweaks to try to make it slightly more bearable. That is completely unacceptable to me. This system needs to be completely overhauled with a totally different set of design goals, and alerts need to be brought back and improved on as well. But I don't think either of those things will happen.

I came back to WF after not playing for years, was really enjoying the game, and all the added content. I was very impressed with all the improvements. Some things still needed improving and some aspects seemed poorly conceived, but overall, it was great and I was really excited to be playing WF again. Then Nightwave hit, and completely killed my enthusiasm to play WF. It became a job, and I toughed it out and got to Rank 30, but that took all the motivation to play WF I had to offer, and left me empty. This is not entertainment, it is simply psychological manipulation tricking people into persisting with something that they aren't actually enjoying.

I've been playing other PC games since I finished nightwave and I've been really enjoying them. Not chipping away at them endlessly despite not actually enjoying myself. They are actually entertaining and they ask nothing of me other than being entertained. If they become anything other than entertaining, I can turn them off, and come back to them whenever I feel like it, without fear of missing out on anything.

History will not look kindly on the developers that try to squeeze their players in this current trend of anti-consumer anti-fun games-as-services trend. WF was one of the only f2p game-as-service games that was being developed with any integrity at all. Nightwave is a thinly veiled attempt to squeeze their players and as such it represents DEs fall from grace, as it has changed WF from the only good f2p game into just another example of why I don't play f2p games.

I will go away now. Probably won't be posting on these forums any more. Won't be playing WF anymore. Maybe I'll check back in after a couple years and see if this mess was sorted out, or if it simply served to sort out the player base, retaining only gluttons for punishment with deep pockets.

I doubt anyone from DE will even read this, but if they do, DE you have done some incredible work, don't ruin it now. I hope I will be pleasantly surprised and impressed when I come back a few years from now.

Goodbye for now WF.

Edited by Arc5in
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5 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Most of my arsenal of Warframes is complete overkill for anywhere I take it, and only one of them has umbral forma.

My fancy forma went on Titania.  She isn't more powerful, just has enough space for me to do a meme build now.

My Chroma still 1-shots everything.  My Inaros still can't die.  Everything else I have was and is strong enough to trivialize the entire game.

If umbral forma is necessary for a player to complete missions quickly and effectively, I know of some builds videos (from before the fancy forma) that I would recommend.

maybe for you but you are limiting urself to specif frames it seems dedicated to a specific task or a certain thing, you mod ur warframes in a typical manner and yes the game is easy but compared to you i was once one of thoes sever hard core players that did stuff to the point where the scaling was so broken it was unbelievable. id also like the point that it seems you have no idea how much something like an umbra forma can modify a build and how much of a difference and power creep it provides, i have mained saryn since the start and umbra mods coming around has allowed me to have a full positive build on all my stats none of it goes under 100% and getting the forma allows someone like me to finally max those mods allowing such and increase in the performance to trump ur normal things and leaving that kind of "progress" behind a resetting time gated syndicate grind locks portions of the player base that can no longer dedicate their lives to the game or never will to even reach it and alienates them locking them away from things they wish they could have but cannot get all because timed exclusive grind, yes cosmetics are semi acceptable for that kind of thing even though it shouldnt but items that actually matter are another story something like the umbra forma maybe be useless to you but not for others

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My 3 cents:

1. Give us a timer showing how long this series will last. This way we can calculate what we have to do in order to get the rewards we want. I was grinding my ass off for the first few weeks, to later discover I have plenty of time and didn't need to stress over it. 

2. This is a suggestion for the task system. Instead of giving us 7 weekly tasks (like you stated you're going to do) and a daily, just give us 10 random tasks, which we can delete and get new ones in 30 minutes. This way we could actually have some control over the tasks we want to do and play specific mission types we want rewards from. I know some people might get lucky and get 10 Elite ones, so to not make things too fast, just put a daily Nightwave Standing cap, same as with other Syndicates. This will also push people to rank up their Mastery, so they craft more weapons/frames. More Mastery = more daily standing possible. 

Right now we can get ~50K standing weekly. With my system MR15 player could get that in 3 days, but MR24 player would need just 2 days. Less grind to get best rewards + some control over tasks + interest to rank up Mastery. "Isn't that wonderful?" - Nef Anyo.

If that's still too fast ranking up for you, let's just make each rank require 500 Standing more than previous one. First few ranks will go blazing fast, but further down the road ranking up will increase in difficulty. 

3. Also give us more than 30 Nightwave Ranks, but put the best rewards in those 30. Meaning, give us some Endo, Kuva, Forma, Void Traces, Relics, whatever, alongside Creds after Rank 30. People playing long enough don't need creds, since they have all the helmets and auras from the old alert system. New players need Creds alongside those resources. This way it will push veteran players to do Nightwave tasks past Rank 30. 

 

I get it that not everyone will like those suggestions, but I think this way many people will feel less "forced" to do some task, especially when they will have control over what tasks to do. Numbers are a subject to change, no stress there.

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I had good time with season 1 of nightwave.

Highlights: I got motivated to do Lua challenges which I always hated, I've run some vault and nightmare missions which I have not done in a very long time.

What I really really wanted and it didn't happen - since you gave us Saturn six captura scene I was hoping that some kind of "kill the wolf" fight will be happening there since the map was ready, maybe like the last tile to a map instead of Saturn boss hangar tile.

Downsides: wolf hammer parts drop chance and insane price of said parts, wolf was too much nerfed for the tactical alert.

Side note: I really liked the wolf fight before the tactical alert, slightly too long, but overall a nice challenge.

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2 hours ago, (XB1)XArch AngelX86 said:

maybe for you but you are limiting urself to specif frames it seems dedicated to a specific task or a certain thing, you mod ur warframes in a typical manner and yes the game is easy but compared to you i was once one of thoes sever hard core players that did stuff to the point where the scaling was so broken it was unbelievable. id also like the point that it seems you have no idea how much something like an umbra forma can modify a build and how much of a difference and power creep it provides, i have mained saryn since the start and umbra mods coming around has allowed me to have a full positive build on all my stats none of it goes under 100% and getting the forma allows someone like me to finally max those mods allowing such and increase in the performance to trump ur normal things and leaving that kind of "progress" behind a resetting time gated syndicate grind locks portions of the player base that can no longer dedicate their lives to the game or never will to even reach it and alienates them locking them away from things they wish they could have but cannot get all because timed exclusive grind, yes cosmetics are semi acceptable for that kind of thing even though it shouldnt but items that actually matter are another story something like the umbra forma maybe be useless to you but not for others

It is hard for me to read this wall of text, so to respond to the first part:

"maybe for you but you are limiting urself to specif frames it seems dedicated to a specific task or a certain thing"

I can beat almost everything in the game with Nyx.  I mainly use "non meta" Warframes.  As for Saryn, I have gone 15 zones in ESO with Saryn.  Neither of them had Umbral forma, what they had were decent builds and smart playstyles.  Nobody is locked out of that.

So unless you still think that putting umbral forma on Titania made me super powerful beyond what I was before...  No, not really.

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I'm probably a little late to this party and I am not going to go through 105 pages of feedback, so here's hoping I'm not repeating a point/suggestion made by others.. or if I am, hope DE would pay more attention ^_^

So my primary problem with Nightwave is that it is too clunky for new players to the game. There are two things that new players mostly get stuck on in this game. That is credits and resources. The old alerts offered both items in considerable amounts. I created a separate account to try out the game as a fresh player after Nightwave started and have immediately noticed the hurdles that I didnt when I started originally.

Now one issue with nightwave is that it has removed that albeit small, but steady source of credits for new players, ones who havent unlocked index or cant or dont go farming endless missions. 5k-7k credits for one mission aside from the ones dropped in mission are good enough to sustain blueprint costs and such.

The second, and much bigger issue is Nitain Extract. Unlike before, now if you get a blueprint that needs 1-2 nitain extracts, you cant just do 2 alerts as soon as you see them up. Now you have to wait until you hit a nightwave rank that offers wolf creds. And unfortunately if you've just spent all your wolf creds, not knowing you'll need nitain, you might have to wait days, if not weeks. New players dont know enough about the game to plan these things in advance or to know what they'll need before they need it. There is a 6 rank gap between the rank 6 and rank 12 wolf cred reward. Thats crazy long. Especially for new players who cant do the elite tasks and not even all the weekly tasks...

My suggestion hence is that instead of rewarding 50 wolf creds every 3 levels. reward 15-20 wolf creds every level along with that level's separate reward.. So for example if applied to this Series 1, it would be Saturn Six Sigil and 20 wolf creds for rank 1, Wolf of Saturn Six Glyph and 20 creds for rank 2, some new reward and 20 wolf creds for rank 3.. and so on. That way the amount of wolf creds rewarded is pretty much the same, but in case some new player needs nitain urgently or some aura they want for a mission, they can just earn 1-2 ranks and quickly get what they want. 

I would also suggest adding some credit drops to either the tasks or the rewards, but thats a lesser concern.

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Posted (edited)

Rework The Reward Amounts (Wolf Creds): I currently have 70 wolf creds, and the only rewards left that are useful to me are reactors and catalysts. Given each rank after 30 gives 15 wolf creds I will never be able to spend all my wolf creds on rewards that I actually want. Once I'm able to afford a catalyst/reactor I will have 85 wolf creds, and thus my creds will drop down to 10 after buying another catalyst/reactor. Fast forward a few ranks, and the next time I can afford a Catalyst/Reactor will be once I reach 85 wolf creds again. The cycle repeats. Because of the amounts of creds rewarded throughout nightwave and after rank 30, it works out so that, in the best case scenario, I will have an extra 10 wolf creds I can't spend on anything I want. 

Players shouldn't have to spend on rewards they don't want simply to avoid wasting the currency. Please, just rework how many creds are rewarded and how many creds rewards cost, so all creds can be completely spent or rewards players want. If you want to keep the current payoff scheme, give players 1 wolf cred for each rank after 30, have the wolf cred rewards before thirty scale down, so that they are relatively just as large compared to the 1 wolf cred per rank after rank 30 (current amount / 15, and then round up if necesarry), and re-calibrate reward prices accordingly so that reward prices are relatively (more or less) just as expensive. This would allow players to much more easily spend all their creds on anything they want, without having leftovers. For example, reactors and catalysts would costs 5 wolf creds as a result of the new system. Same relative price, only there won't be leftovers. 

Edited by Jamescell
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10 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

It is hard for me to read this wall of text, so to respond to the first part:

"maybe for you but you are limiting urself to specif frames it seems dedicated to a specific task or a certain thing"

I can beat almost everything in the game with Nyx.  I mainly use "non meta" Warframes.  As for Saryn, I have gone 15 zones in ESO with Saryn.  Neither of them had Umbral forma, what they had were decent builds and smart playstyles.  Nobody is locked out of that.

So unless you still think that putting umbral forma on Titania made me super powerful beyond what I was before...  No, not really.

You instantly have shown me you have no idea what you are talking about the huge difference in stats the umbra mods provide when maxed, you don't understand the freedom they allow you to expand apon take the umbra intensify when maxed and paired with the other two mods it's 66% power instead of 30% or do you still not understand what I'm blabbering on about and the power creep that is possible with these mods you are seeming to refuse 

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I like the Nightwave system as a replacement for alerts. In general it's great to remove some RNG from such a huge list of potential rewards. The cred offerings in particular are well made. I like the weekly list that is partially randomized to keep certain alert rewards always available (potatoes, nitain, vauban) while others cycle through (helmets, skins). I like most of the objectives as well. I do have a few... okay, many, suggestions for improving the overall Nightwave system though.

The first thing to work on is the post rank 30 rewards. Either they need to require fewer points per rank, or the cred rewards need to match the pre 30 rewards that had them. If the goal is to stick with 15 creds per rank, then make each rank after 30 only require 3000 points. 15 is 3/10 of 50, and 3000 is 3/10 of 10000. If the goal is to keep the rank progression a static 10000, then make each rank reward 50 creds, just like previous ranks that gave creds. The current setup of 15 creds per 10000 points makes it a painful grind to earn anything more, which de-incentivizes people from doing any more objectives once they reach rank 30. 

The cred offerings are great as is. The only thing I'd request here is the addition of some way to get forma. Add relic packs to the offerings list for the same price as potatoes, or even just forma by itself for that same potato price. They're already a rank reward, so why not add them to the offerings list?

Some of the weekly objectives need work. Use forma 3 times? That just tells me it's bad to use forma outside of the event just in case it's next week's objective. Gild an item? Same deal. Even putting stars into ayatan treasures has this problem. They're not hard to do, but they de-incentivize doing these things outside of when the objective is active. Instead they prompt people to wait, holding off on things that might otherwise make the game more enjoyable.

There is, thankfully, a very simple solution to these objectives. Don't make them weekly objectives. Take the current weekly versions and make them repeatable around three to five times during the entire event, at any time during the event. The exact times they can be repeated could be based on the average chance of them appearing in the first Nightwave.

It would also be a good idea to reduce the amount of work required overall for many of the weekly objectives. Many people just don't have the time to complete every objective during a week. They probably have jobs, school, or family taking up a lot of their time. A few objectives could be reduced, and converting others to event long objectives while reducing the total number of weekly objectives would also lessen the time constraints. Maybe someone who is normally busy will have a few days to spare here and there during the event to work on the big event long objectives, while the lighter weekly objective load would take only a couple hours to complete. On top of the time requirements, there is also the balance of them all that really needs worked on. Just reducing the required number of completions for each problem objective would fix both of these problems.

Some suggested reductions: Find all the caches in a sabotage mission three times (Cache Hunter) should really only be finding all the caches once. Especially as a weekly objective. There is another weekly to just complete three sabotage missions (Saboteur), no caches required. The relative difficulty and time requirement of objectives in the same category need to be much closer to each other than this. 

Invader (complete 9 invasion missions) should be reduced. Almost all of the other objectives that require completing a specific mission type only require 3 completions. Invader should match. It's three times the work for the same standing reward. The Earth/Venus Bounty Hunter objectives have this same problem. Reduce it to three bounties to match the other weekly mission completion objectives. Supporter is another one. Drop that the three times.

Perhaps the worst one in the weekly category is Vault Looter. It requires a minimum of four completions, and the missions aren't even guaranteed to count unless the player has a group of four well coordinated people. This means random matching won't work; it requires a preformed group of four to guarantee that the vault can be opened. For people working with smaller groups, there is a chance (1/4 for each spot not filled) that the vault will be the wrong one and nobody can open it. This objective needs to be drastically reduced if it remains as a normal weekly objective. Require only one completion. To complete it in one shot, much more work is required than the other complete 3 missions objectives. Herding cats (players? no, cats) is hard! To complete it solo, or even as a group of two or three, it will still probably require extra attempts. Murphy's Law is strong with this mission type. An alternative would be making this one an elite weekly instead of reducing it. Elite weekly objectives all seem to require more planning and coordination. This actually makes Vault Looter a great candidate for being an elite weekly, as is, with no other changes. I think I'd prefer that option.

As for the existing elite objectives, I like most of them. They're not ones you can complete all of with just an hour or two, but an hour or two each day will probably finish them off fairly quickly. These are a great way to give a little something extra to the people who can put more time into the game, but not so rewarding that people who can't spend that much time are missing out on very much. I think it's important to balance the overall Nightwave ranks to have rank 30 be achievable by completing about 3/4 of all weekly and daily objectives and none of the elites. This allows people to be flexible and still be rewarded for doing what they can. Busy people can still get that rank 30 reward, and people with a lot of time can earn even more points by completing the elites.

Killing 100 Eximus or 1500 total enemies are great objectives because they require either a fair amount of time or good planning and coordination. Most of the elites should require some planning and coordination or at least a couple hours of less intensive work. There are a few that need tweaking though, and one that is outright bad.

The bad one is killing the Profit Taker. While I like the idea of killing superbosses as an objective, the problem with this one is the required standing to even attempt it. It requires having the maximum rank with Solaris United, which is no small task. Even with a 20k+ daily standing cap at MR20, and having friends carry people by using their already high standing to buy echo lures and such, it takes a long time. A couple weeks at least. That timeframe skyrockets if MR is lower. MR10 with a 10k cap takes at least four weeks. Double that again to eight weeks at MR5 with a 5k cap. That's the entire Nightwave event right there, even counting the MR that someone will probably earn while working on other objectives. It's fine if the elite weekly objectives have some requirements, but maxed standing is not a good one to use. This is especially true for Profit Taker because other people can't carry players without standing along for the ride. For comparison, the Hydrolyst objective does allow carrying (coordination!) and even attempting it solo without any standing requirements, so it's a good superboss objective.

Day Trader could stand to have the "in a row" part removed, but it's doable in its current state if the right setup is used. Perhaps it could be changed to "in one session" so that players can miss a perfect match once and still complete it if they just push on to a fourth harder match and succeed that time. Elite weekly objectives are the ones that really should require more coordination than the normal weekly objectives, and this one certainly requires coordination. They can also require groups, such as the "with Friends" objectives, again because elites are where coordination should be a factor.

Hold Your Breath needs to be dropped to 40 minutes. This one isn't about the difficulty, it's about the real life time. Some people literally cannot sit at the desk for a full hour, and even 40 minutes can be hard or impossible for some people. On top of that, most health advice recommends taking a break to move around after every 30 minutes of sitting or standing in one spot. Pushing that 30 minute mark every now and then certainly won't do much harm, but it's much better to at least get it closer to that point.

For the same reasons, Survival with Friends and Defense with Friends need to be reduced to 40 minutes and about 40 minutes worth of waves, based on average wave durations, respectively. I can usually end up deploying 4 sentry turrets (which requires 30 minutes minimum of total cooldown time) by around waves 20 to 25 on an easy defense mission, so 30 would be a good wave limit here. It isn't ideal for the loot drops, but then the extra B and C rewards would be optional for the players to decide if they want them rather than being required by the Nightwave objective.

The daily objectives, on the other hand, are perfect. They are all easily done within a few minutes for players that know what to do and how to do it. They are still easily done within an hour for newer players that are still learning. The newest players may have trouble with the damage type objectives due to lack of mods, but mods can be traded. It's entirely possible for them to ask for help getting the right tools to complete the objectives, and they even get three days to do so instead of having to do everything all at once right away. Daily and weekly objectives really should be doable by just about anyone. They should also be doable by every single person who is willing to ask for help. The current daily objectives nailed this.

Keep up the great work DE!

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12 hours ago, (XB1)XArch AngelX86 said:

You instantly have shown me you have no idea what you are talking about the huge difference in stats the umbra mods provide when maxed, you don't understand the freedom they allow you to expand apon take the umbra intensify when maxed and paired with the other two mods it's 66% power instead of 30% or do you still not understand what I'm blabbering on about and the power creep that is possible with these mods you are seeming to refuse 

No, I do lol.  That ability strength is better earned with another strength mod.

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I don't think the Wolf needs to be nerfed anymore, but remove the invulnerability on the Saturn Six Fugitives please, it just doesn't make any sense at all.

They're similar to the Kuva Guardians except the fugitives are truly invulnerable and cannot be removed during the fight, so annoying to deal with and anti-fun.

Just make them killable, and respawn a few seconds after death, as the Kuva Guardians do.

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On 2019-03-05 at 10:38 AM, KirukaChan said:

Me and my favorite guy attempted the 60 minute Kuva Survival run twice now, and both times one of us had a Nekros, and both times we ran out of Life Support around the 35 minute mark. There's simply not enough enemies and not enough small Life Supports. I'm not sure if maybe this challenge was designed based on spawns for a 4-person party, but if it was, that's not cool. It makes Survival not the best choice for an endurance challenge. Maybe consider Defense or Excavation instead.

Sorry but I solo'd it. I will admit my gear is fairly up there but even still, it's more likely your KPS wasn't high enough. What was the other frame you brought to compliment the nekros?

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You could simply change the system to have Series 1 directly followed by Series 2 without any end dates. So that new players could start and work toward finishing one act at a time as you add more. This would remove the "Season effect" that the Series change puts on people (to get all the limited time loot) and allows more casual gameplay. This way the challenges won't matter too much, since there would always be next week.

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9 hours ago, Zilchy said:

Sorry but I solo'd it. I will admit my gear is fairly up there but even still, it's more likely your KPS wasn't high enough. What was the other frame you brought to compliment the nekros?

I can't even remember at this point. I also stopped caring once I finished getting all the Nightwave rewards. Now that I know how long a Nightwave lasts for, I know I don't have to panic about completing every single weekly.

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And again, NW became a time sensitive job, and dictated how I played. It has caused me to stop playing and stop spending money towards DE.
I would play for much longer per week than what NW wanted me to, if they let me play my own way without jumping through hoops.

I hope they scrap it entirely before they lose too much.

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Posted (edited)

I love that Nightwave rewards new players with essential resources for learning more and understanding the game without disrupting their gameplay while also giving mid-game and end-game players a chance to get faster access to those rewards and exclusive rewards, but I think locking wolf credits behind ranking up 30 times, and a 60-70% completion rate for challenges that players are worried about feeling like a chore, is a recipe for burnout and is pitting new, old, casual, and endurance players against each other in a system that was supposed to eliminate the lack of availability of old alert rewards. I think this issue could be fixed with the following:

  • Eliminate the 30 Rank system in favor of a set standing and credit pool with challenges and invaders awarding Nightwave Credits and standing that scale up with invader level and challenge difficulty (e.g. level 15 invaders drop 15 credits and 150 standing, level 75 drops 75 and 750 standing, etc)
  • All rank up awards become one-time purchasable offerings.
    • If people are worried about certain rewards (umbral forma, kuva) going to people who haven’t done certain quests (The Sacrifice, The War Within) then lock those rewards behind quest completion requirements.
    • EDIT: content could also be locked behind the credit pool increasing with more mastery ranks like how void traces work. So MR3 players with a small credit pool can't access kuva and umbral forma when they're at their max amount of credits.
  • Give end/mid-game players a fun/interesting/exciting way to sift through Nightwave lore and then use that knowledge to hunt down invaders for extra Nightwave Credits and standing.
  • Keep Nightwave year round with two types of rewards:
    • Normal Rewards: rewards that can be bought with standing and are always available via weekly rotations (like nitain, aura mods, helmet cosmetics, and maybe potatoes)
    • Seasonal Rewards: seasonal/exclusive offerings that can be purchased once (umbral forma and cosmetics) or multiple times (like potatoes) with nightwave credits

I feel like these suggestions are more in tune to how people play Warframe and also gives people the flexibility to get the rewards they want and do challenges they want to do without demanding they burn themselves out to get them.

Warframe just is not suited to a Battle Pass system like this because there’s so much to and so much to grind whereas other games, that are suited to a Battle Pass system, only have one thing for players to do and rewards them for mixing up that one task a little bit. Nightwave really could be amazing, and I prefer it to the old alerts, but right now all I see it doing is driving a wedge into the community and burning people out on the game. I have several veteran friends who haven’t even touched the game since Nightwave started, or they are avoiding it until it ends, and so I don’t know if/when they’re coming back. Right now, Nightwave justs feels like a whole other job and none of us are getting paid for it.

Edited by KarazyX
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On 2019-05-15 at 6:43 AM, Izumi_S said:

I don't think the Wolf needs to be nerfed anymore, but remove the invulnerability on the Saturn Six Fugitives please, it just doesn't make any sense at all.

They're similar to the Kuva Guardians except the fugitives are truly invulnerable and cannot be removed during the fight, so annoying to deal with and anti-fun.

Just make them killable, and respawn a few seconds after death, as the Kuva Guardians do.

This, but on top of this, I believe they should make it so both the three random Saturn Six Fugitives and the Wolf and his three Saturn Six Fugitives can't both spawn at the same time. Those molotovs are heavy hitting and the Fugitives throw them like they were all pro pitchers of the the Grineer Major League Baseball team. For fugitives they sure seem to have an infinite supply of molotovs, except they're not really molotovs, it's more like one of the Fugitives found out that you could just use Napalm instead of Gasoline in a Molotov and decided that it'd be make for a pretty humorous Firewalking challenge.

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