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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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Now that Nightwave is winding down I have a bit more nuanced feedback. These are opinions so anyone else can feel free to disagree.

I don't like the "forma" challenge for starters. With an announced gap of X amount of time, it sort of bothers me that if I forma something in the interim, that's one fewer forma I can use in the future for this accursed challenge.

I don't like the rotating store. I saw many posts about how X weapon was out of stock for several weeks at a time. How is this superior to alerts exactly? Is it better because you know for a fact item X won't show up for an entire week? It also costs credits to buy, which are limited and distributed at odd intervals. This pushes people to churn through a few extra levels to get credits to buy an item because it might disappear for a long time; if it's even actually possible. This leads to pressure and it leads to burnout. Maybe not today, nor tomorrow, but eventually.

Challenges "with friends" are not good. I can, and do, handle most of this game's content totally fine solo. This is possible mostly because you have done very little in keeping this game balanced. Also, I don't play this game for social interaction. I play it to tear enemies apart and forget about my horrible life for a little while. Talking to people and organizing things is just a hassle that I don't even need. Anything I don't want to do solo, public games are almost always adequate enough to do the deed.
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To address alert removal: I was someone who dearly loved the old alerts. I know a lot of people thought they were junky and useless but I didn't. I actually think nightwave is a step back in most ways. I don't think it's as direct a replacement as you, DE, think. It does not fulfill the same role in my gameplay. Not even close. These were quick missions to do on the side here and there for a cool reward. It didn't ask people to go out of their way several times.

Nightwave is an entirely different system from alerts. That's not necessarily bad but it's much more demanding and it gets a lot more criticism as a result. These criticisms often lead to people being criticized for "playing the game wrong" when nothing penalized them for doing so up until recently. Because there needs to be some incentive to "play the game". I can't imagine any other solutions to this problem!

I don't think there's an incorrect way to play the game and I don't think Nightwave caters to the fringe players very well. With so many different activities being in this game, this is likely unavoidable and totally inevitable. However, it also leads to a lot of people being considered fringe in one way or another. Nightwave is imposing itself in an intrusive manner that disrupts what one might consider fun at the time. It is seen as a major inconvenience to many. Sure, it might not be difficult to go fishing. However, after working all day, I want to explode some heads with my Grakata, not go fishing. I'm also finished with all content related to fishing. It's rewarding down the road? I don't care.
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If I might make a recommendation, I think showing all the rewards up front is a mistake. Feel free to disagree. In my opinion, this is one of the main reasons the fear of missing out is so strong. Alerts came and went and if you missed one, oh well. Now, we have a 10+ week alert with a big thing looming over you the entire time. Perhaps curtail the available rewards shown to the next tier. This way it's more of a surprise and people will feel better about it. They won't see a mountain of junk on the way to getting that armor and Umbra forma and get depressed.

Sorry this is a little long. I hope things are much improved for Season 2. I'm not at all looking forward to it but we'll see if it's better or worse one way or another.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-04-29 at 8:09 AM, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

So, anyone else feel like The Wolf got buffed and not nerfed as he was supposedly going to be? The last two fights with him have taken way longer than any other fights, and at lower levels too.

He didn't need a nerf. He's a freaking easy enemy to kill.

He's a bullet sponge, which sucks for new players (which means if he "needs" a nerf at all, it's just his HP), but if he kills you... sorry, but you're bad. You can easily dodge all of his attacks, and never take damage from him.

His fugitive buddies are a pain, admittedly. Their napalm hits ridiculously hard. Just try to make sure you got a frame with good CC to keep them in check.

Edited by DrakeWurrum

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-04-27 at 7:22 PM, Almagnus1 said:

Even some of the vets (MR25) just don't have THAT much time to throw at this on a weekly basis, and when i see this weeks elite challenges, decide that it's not worth dedicating THAT much time.

To be fair, as one of those MR 25+ vets, I didn't do every Act every week. I made an effort to get them done on weekends, mostly, but I still didn't do all of them. I avoided certain ones that just didn't seem fun. I often missed dailies because I would go for several days without logging in, since I sometimes work a lot of overtime and just feel too exhausted to do any gaming.

I'm still at rank 50 on Nightwave. Only reason I even kept going was so I could get more Catalysts and Reactors, though - I didn't feel a real NEED to go beyond rank 30.

My wife is around MR15 because she's way more casual and still made it to the Wolf Howl emote (I think that's 26 of Nightwave) because many weeks she cared more about other games. She also didn't really like the look of the Saturn Six Armor/Syandana, so she didn't really care.

My point is I did way more Nightwave than I actually needed to in order to get fully rewarded by it.

FOMO players need to seriously check themselves and reconsider their priorities. Maybe relax a little.

Nightwave series 2 will reward more standing per Act, and have less total Acts, so it'll be a lot easier to "keep up" next time around.

Edited by DrakeWurrum
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I call bull on "they are CC-able."  Throughout this season, Chaos rarely affected them.  It was very finicky, and even when closer to each other than us, we drew more aggro.

Also obligatory "make the Wolf take status effects."

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

I call bull on "they are CC-able."  Throughout this season, Chaos rarely affected them.  It was very finicky, and even when closer to each other than us, we drew more aggro.

Also obligatory "make the Wolf take status effects."

They are. Hildryn's ult would lift them up and keep them in the air. Revenant would put them to sleep with Mesmer Armor (and mind control them easily, too)

Vauban's effects, both Bastille and Vortex, worked wonders.

Also, while the Wolf was immune to status effects, certain powers would still work on him. Rhino Stomp. Revenant's sleep from the Mesmer Armor.

I even saw an Ash use his smoke bomb to open the Wolf up to Finishers - totally slaughtered the Wolf in seconds.

Edited by DrakeWurrum
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Just now, DrakeWurrum said:

They are. Hildryn's ult would lift them up and keep them in the air. Revenant would put them to sleep with Mesmer Armor (and mind control them easily, too)

Vauban's effects, both Bastille and Vortex, worked wonders.

Yeah, point being that there are frames whose CC does nothing.  Mag did it for me, but not Nyx.  Every CC frame should be able to lock them out of the fight.  Nyx cannot CC them, they break Assimilate very quickly, and they 1-shot Nyx through vitality and guardian.

If the advice next Nightwave becomes "bring a better Warframe lol," I'll be slapping the abort button for the new assassin if I didn't bring a rad crit heavy blade to delete him in 12 seconds.

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Anyone knows if the Wolf got any kind of stealth change between its "assassin" version and the operation one?

With Khora's whipclaw i could damage the operations one, but when it spawned yesterday in a solo mission it was completely invulnerable

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My fun with the Wolf is Titania for guns and Valkyr for melee.

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2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

 I actually have a life and work full time, so I can't throw that much time at it, unlike you.

completely missed where he said the following in the quote you quoted.  

On 2019-05-18 at 4:33 PM, DrakeWurrum said:

I often missed dailies because I would go for several days without logging in, since I sometimes work a lot of overtime and just feel too exhausted to do any gaming.

Just pointing that out in case you missed it.  Cheers.  😄  

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

 I actually have a life and work full time, so I can't throw that much time at it, unlike you.

I actually work 50 hours a week in back-breaking manual labor, and have a family to take care of and a house with a host of problems, so try again.

This is why I said FOMO players need to calm down and realize they're not going to miss out on things. Just log in once or twice a week, do what you can do, and you'll still get way ahead of where you care to be. Hell, I actually forgot to finish this last week's acts. I meant to spend my remaining Wolf Cred on Nitain, since there was nothing else worth getting and would be too short for another Catalyst. Was gonna handle it all Sunday before the reset. Got distracted by another game. Now there's no Nightwave at all until they're finally done with Series 2. (which, imo, is a bad way to do it)

On 2019-05-18 at 4:43 PM, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Yeah, point being that there are frames whose CC does nothing.  Mag did it for me, but not Nyx.  Every CC frame should be able to lock them out of the fight.  Nyx cannot CC them, they break Assimilate very quickly, and they 1-shot Nyx through vitality and guardian.

I would agree it's important that it should be an all-or-nothing kind of thing, but it might be difficult to code that right just because of how all the different abilities work.

Edited by DrakeWurrum

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Nightwave with random Wolf spawns on nearly any weapon, slowing down missions. Wolf random spawn got annoying, slowing down the missions. This will only get more annoying when we got nearly all possible drops from Wolf, only wasting our time.

Then, season 1 ends. No Nightwave, no wolf spawn. The next season did not appear to start. The complete lack of any wolf spawn is very nice.

I want only Nightwave daily and weekly. I do not want random wolf spawn to nearly any regular and relic missions, because I cannot access Arsenal in a middle of mission. I did like a few days of Wolf alert that I like to see this happen again, this is good enough to be prepared with good loadout in Arsenal. 

Nightwave weekly "With Friends" needs to go away. there was a few times it didn't count because I have had an OOPS, didn't accept friend request because the games says something like already added as friend when I try to add as friend.

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If I was to rebuild Nightwave from the ground up this is how I would go about it

  • The store I would leave alone I felt it did it's job just fine.
  • Have a defined start and end date for the Nightwave's so people know when it ends and how long they have to get what they want
  • The Wolf should be changed from a random mission spawn to an assassinate mission similar to Multalist Alad V
  • The mats and blueprint for this assassinate mission will be dropped from the random minions that spawn in regular missions
  • When players select the assassinate mission they are given three choices: Standard, Elite, and Hell
  • Standard Mode: Boss is level 10 with 50 mobs spawning in the mission. Drops: Store credits, Normal credits, A Relic (T1/T2), Weapon Blueprint, Weapon Parts
  • Elite Mode: Boss is level 50 with 100 mobs spawning in the mission. Drops: Store credits, Normal credits, A Relic (T3/T4), Orikin Catalyst Blueprint, Orikin Reactor Blueprint, Forma
  • Hell Mode: Boss is level 100 with 300 mobs spawning in the mission. Drops: Kuva, Rare Cosmetics, Riven Mods, Eximus Adapter, Legendary Core, Store Credits, Normal Credits
  • This should give everyone something to do regardless of their MR/Experience
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On 2019-05-20 at 4:23 PM, Almagnus1 said:

Doesn't matter if it's office or manual labor (manual labor is IMO easier to do cause it only leaves you physically exhausted, not mentally drained), but that's barely any work during the week TBH.  And also, 50 hours of work is nothing to complain about, as that's an average work week light work week, and they're (more often than not) longer.

Don't try to talk up what you do for work, especially if it's only 50 hours of work a week.

What kind of goober thinks 50 hours a week is a light work load?  If your employer is working you that hard, you should probably look into what else they're doing to screw you, dude.

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On 2019-05-18 at 11:36 PM, DrakeWurrum said:

They are. Hildryn's ult would lift them up and keep them in the air. Revenant would put them to sleep with Mesmer Armor (and mind control them easily, too)

Vauban's effects, both Bastille and Vortex, worked wonders.

Also, while the Wolf was immune to status effects, certain powers would still work on him. Rhino Stomp. Revenant's sleep from the Mesmer Armor.

I even saw an Ash use his smoke bomb to open the Wolf up to Finishers - totally slaughtered the Wolf in seconds.

That's after the nerf. After nerf [Mesa] was capable of targeting him and obliterate the Wolf in a split second.

Pre nerf. Nothing worked on the wolf, no finishers, no crowd-control, no ragdolling or similar effects.

Honestly, pre-nerf it was stupid, after nerf it wasn't even a miniboss anymore. DE overdid it both times. Too tanky first, then turned it into a trashmob.

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On 2019-05-21 at 1:18 PM, sam686 said:

Nightwave with random Wolf spawns on nearly any weapon, slowing down missions. Wolf random spawn got annoying, slowing down the missions. This will only get more annoying when we got nearly all possible drops from Wolf, only wasting our time.

Yes! It could be insane. Once I was at Hydron to test and level some random stuff. The Wolf spawned on wave 5, halting all progress. I and one very patient pub-squadmate chipped away at him for a good twenty minutes after we were done with the actual defense wave. Nothing was progressing past that, so the only other option was to abort and lose everything.

At least in other mission types you could still extract. But running to extraction with even just the Wolf's minions after you could be bizarre. I was doing a solo vault run as Limbo, not using any abilities other than running around in the Rift, when the minions spawned and attacked me through the Rift.

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 I just wanted to give some feedback if I can of my current experience. so I've been playing this game off and on for many years, starting back when i was in elementary school, and have enjoyed every minute. It's a very fun game and I hope to see it grow more. The thing that made me want to post here is that as of late, due to bad timing and other things, I've missed out on most of the nitain extract. Due to this and the current drought of nitain, I have been having quite the frustrating experience with the game. I tried to build warframe after warframe but have been stopped short every time. At first i wanted to get Ivara, only to realize too late that I didn't have time to get the nitain that I needed. I tried to get Valkyr prime with still no luck. After farming for the parts and going to my foundry, I realized that I still need nitain. Next I tried for Garuda with similar results. Could you please put up some nitain alerts or something similar while we wait for nightwave? ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ gives the feedback 

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I doubt i want to grind again in the next season.

It requires too much time every day and you pretty much can't skip or you are screwed.
It burns you out.

Time-limited daily grind stuff is horrible.

And only useful rewards are at the end - emblems etc are worthless.

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On 2019-05-21 at 2:23 AM, Almagnus1 said:

Doesn't matter if it's office or manual labor (manual labor is IMO easier to do cause it only leaves you physically exhausted, not mentally drained), but that's barely any work during the week TBH.  And also, 50 hours of work is nothing to complain about, as that's an average work week light work week, and they're (more often than not) longer.

Don't try to talk up what you do for work, especially if it's only 50 hours of work a week.

The standard workweek is 40 hours -> 5 days of 8h.
Your math is broken.

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Posted (edited)

Okay, now we've seen the changes DE would do to Nightwave Ep2.

My biggest problem now is that the catch-up system is really not a CATCH-UP system.

It is simply "DO YOU WANT TO DO THE GRIND IN TWO WEEKS, OR FINISH THEM IN ONE WEEK". Besides, You will not be able to catch up if you are too far behind.

The catch-up system is supposed to fix the burn-out caused by the limited time period, but now all we have is the right to select whether to have a severe burn-out and rest for a week or have a lighter burn-out for two weeks.

 

Edited by DevonRayMun
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14 hours ago, nerolev said:

 I just wanted to give some feedback if I can of my current experience. so I've been playing this game off and on for many years, starting back when i was in elementary school, and have enjoyed every minute. It's a very fun game and I hope to see it grow more. The thing that made me want to post here is that as of late, due to bad timing and other things, I've missed out on most of the nitain extract. Due to this and the current drought of nitain, I have been having quite the frustrating experience with the game. I tried to build warframe after warframe but have been stopped short every time. At first i wanted to get Ivara, only to realize too late that I didn't have time to get the nitain that I needed. I tried to get Valkyr prime with still no luck. After farming for the parts and going to my foundry, I realized that I still need nitain. Next I tried for Garuda with similar results. Could you please put up some nitain alerts or something similar while we wait for nightwave? ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ gives the feedback 

What you can do is talk to Konzu in Cetus and check the bounty rewards. Some of the bounties offer Nitain. It isnt an efficient way to farm them, but it could give you at least some.

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Please read into this as certain rewards should have really not been put into this system, in the future when more umbra forma is brung out and kept in this system it will bring implications between people that are starting and casuals that wish they could have the item but cannot have due to time restraints and all that nonsense. 

 

Please listen and give it to us not lock it behind such a system build a system that you can correctly deliver the item to players without locking it and allowing them to get it when they need it like a quest or something and give the item to the people that missed it or where close to it. Players should bot be punished so harshly for not dedicating their lives to the game

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I think alerts need to be brought back in between Nightwaves.  At least Nitian.

I mean, Nightwave is to replace Alerts, therefore without Nightwave there should be alerts

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, (PS4)NemitheNem said:

I think alerts need to be brought back in between Nightwaves.  At least Nitian.

I mean, Nightwave is to replace Alerts, therefore without Nightwave there should be alerts

 

Yes, I'll second this.

 

It's kind of farcical that DE completely scraps alerts and replaces it with a "supposedly" better system, but for some inane reason, ends Nightwave season 1 before the next begins, leaving nothing to replace it.

 

Like, what difference would it have made to DE if they just left Nightwave season 1 running all the way to the start of season 2 to avoid a hiatus? Maybe some more people would have been able to get some more rewards, and it might slightly devalue some of the later rewards, but it's not like Rank 30 was particularly difficult to get to begin with.

 

And well, regardless of how good/mediocre/terrible you think Nightwave is, I feel we can all agree that some Nightwave is superior to absolutely nothing at all, which is what the current system is giving us.

 

Either make it so one season flows straight into the next, or re-institute the previous alert system between seasons.

Edited by -Black_Lotus-
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Why not add to the price list byu forms

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On 2019-05-22 at 11:38 PM, Gresh said:

What kind of goober thinks 50 hours a week is a light work load?  If your employer is working you that hard, you should probably look into what else they're doing to screw you, dude.

It's needed if you want to climb the corporate ladder - if you're only working 40 hours a week, you're slacking.

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