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[DE]Bear

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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On 2019-05-27 at 2:30 PM, -Black_Lotus- said:

Either make it so one season flows straight into the next, or re-institute the previous alert system between seasons.

Then you will get players like me who will only play when Alerts are active ūüėõ Just returned the other day after a break from nightwave, got a good giggle when I realised they have now removed any real way of earning Nitian/Auras/Helmets oh and that the wolf mission was only up for a weekend? Lol back to play Sea of Thieves and some GTA for me, this new punishement/chore based system just isn't for me. Shame if they had kept with the quests and not turned the gring to 11+(8 bounties for 5k experience wow used to be 1 mission=1reward) I could of seen my self putting a lot more time and money into this distraction. Now ive got a foundry full of prime items I don't even care to rank up anymore when before I had the itch and wouldn't go to sleep until I got them all done.

 

Good update DE really good you helped me get back to the real world and stop caring about this nonsense with your greedy tactics.

Btw thats all Nightwave was/is, another way to get people to spend plat on the marketplace.

On 2019-05-28 at 4:33 AM, Almagnus1 said:

It's needed if you want to climb the corporate ladder - if you're only working 40 hours a week, you're slacking.

Crazy, doctors are now considering 9 hours is all we should be working a week ūüėĄ

 

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On 2019-03-05 at 4:56 AM, tobascodagama said:

That's fine, but you had TWO Elite weekly challenges dedicated to endurance running, which is something like 1/4 of all the possible standing that is earnable in one week. If you don't like endurance runs, you're missing out on a ton of standing and need to max out absolutely everything else (including all the dailies) for the week if you want to stay on schedule to "complete" the rewards track.

Not to mention that the whole idea of putting your gameplay on a tight "schedule" of activities, booked ten weeks in advance, that you may or may not enjoy that is anti-fun to begin with.

i think they should give us 5 elite missions that give a reasonable amount of standing each. When we finish 3/5, the others disappear. This will give the player and the dev the option of variety.

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Haven't played in a long time almost at all, not after Nightwave Series 1 (see my long comment history on my full thoughts on the matter).

After The Jovian Concord update I hopped back into the game, saw that Nightwave was ended, and genuinely enjoyed the game once more.
So many Quality of Life improvements to the UI in so many places, reducing the need to awkwardly go through multiple different submenus, the Jupiter Remaster is pretty with almost no FPS drops and the little secrets are cool and rewarding in a gameplay sense, the new enemies are nice, the new weapons immediately jumped up to some of my favourites, also checked out the Plains Remaster since I skipped it because of being sour of Nightwave, that too was an improvement with almost no loss in performance, the Thumpers are fun, the ability to select missions straight down there is appreciated.

I genuinely had fun again and am willing to forgive the blunder of Nightwave.
The game wasn't pulling my sleeve with menial house chores to do while blackmailing me about missing out, and I got to enjoy the game now for extended periods of time.

Heard about Nightwave series 2 reducing grind and FOMO, and that's good.
But I'm still worried about the return of Nightwave, and will that again just push me off the game.

But I still want an answer for what will be done with the narrative dissonance? These house chores are so far removed from anything meaningful, world-building, that they feel like the kind of utterly pointless filler side activities so many RPGs and achievements 100% completion stuff get made fun about.
They go against the Nora narrative, they make us question why she wants us to do these for some minor standing here and there.
"Collect 10 mods", "Do 3 Sanctuary Onslaughts", "Kill X enemies with Y damage", "Do a Sortie" etc

At least alerts had potential for being integrated more into the world of Warframe, to feel more meaningful and build smaller stories with.
"Hey, we just got a distress call from someone, they've been captured and sent to a holding facility and will face dire circumstances unless we help them! Please go to these coordinates and rescue them before it's too late, I'm sure we can repay you somehow." - "You just saved my son, we can never repay you enough!"
"We've just spotted a high value Grineer informant on Mars in a meeting with generals, we should capture them before the intel get too old and extract information." - "Interesting, apparently the grineer are planning an invasion soon, this is very useful information, good job out there Tenno!"

Alerts just needed tweaks to the structure and punching up the dialogue and adding more flare and surrounding context, and they would have been golden.
(More concrete suggestions have been made in the past by me & others, again comment history exists.)
These achievement styled utter side chores of Nightwave are hard to see how they could be improved on to feel less insulting and boring for the player to be demanded to stoop down to do.

I love the game, I just want Nightwave improved, and feel less tacked on, like it's chasing a very obvious trend, without any thought to how well it integrates into the world and story, let alone all the issues with the burdensome grind it had before.

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Suppose I should reply to this topic. Kind of amused by all the usual liars going "Hah, Wolf was easy, you all suck, and I am the master race!" posts. You aren't fooling anyone with a clue, guys.

Anyway, firstly the Wolf was a terrible idea. It probably drove off more new players than anything else. By the end people were going "Urgh" in chat when he turned up, and a few teams I was in quit outright en masse rather than face yet another 20 minute slog trying to kill the clown. No-one who is honest liked hearing the "growl" sound, and then when we wee finally going to ave our "revenge fight" we fought him 3 times where he got away twice and finally we faced him in in level 100 Super Sayan bastard form. Clap clap, no catharsis there.

If you are now forced to balance everything because a minority have tricked out everything with 200 rolled Rivens then you have done something wrong. That same crowd will be all over the forums lying about what an easy fight it is, no matter what.

Aside from that, I enjoyed the challenges every day because I regarded them as optional challenges that I could take or leave. However you made a SERIOUS mistake when you pointed some of the challenges at gated off content such as Profit taker and Sorties. People are completionists at heart and they hate suddenly being told they cant do something to gain points for no good obvious reason. Not everyone has maxed out standing or has done "the War within" which actually lies at the end of a lot of planets, I hate to remind you.

 In my clan we had new people begging others to taxi them to Profit taker or sorties. and they wouldn't believe us when we said that it was gated off and we physically could not. When i finally dawned on them that they had been set a challenge they could not actually do they were extremely disappointed and frustrated. it was, in parlance, a @#&$ block. Again you are frustrating people for no good reason. Hell, I could not do profit taker myself as I didn't have the SU standing. And as for the "Kill a Hydrolyst" challenge, I saw newbies asking people to carry them into the worst Tridolon fight so they "could get the rewards" without even having a mote amp to help out. You try having THAT conversation 5 times a day. At least if it was "kill a Teralyst" they could probably have done it, even if it took a while, if they got matched in with anyone who had an amp.

I know the intention was probably to encourage people to try out content, but putting that goal into a publicly available space was giving the impression that you are tossing the big rewards at the oldies as usual. And that is a good way to get people to say "eff this game."

Aside from that I don't have much complaints about it. As a replacement for Alerts, l.. well I remember when i played before finding Alerts very frustrating as I always missed the ones with stuff I wanted. I never got one Vauban piece despite months of trying, for example. So I think this is a different way of doing it which has its frustrations too. I'm fairly neutral on whether its "better" than alerts or not, because alerts kinda sucked imo. At least this gave you a few days to grab something you wanted.

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On 2019-05-30 at 6:30 PM, Himodor said:

Suppose I should reply to this topic. Kind of amused by all the usual liars going "Hah, Wolf was easy, you all suck, and I am the master race!" posts. You aren't fooling anyone with a clue, guys.

It sounds like you don't have a clue.

First off: nobody is claiming superiority for not having problems with the Wolf.
Second: If the Wolf kills you, you're not playing right.

This isn't because you're bad. It's because you're not dodging.

That's all it takes to survive his attacks. Because his attacks, while deadly if hit by them... are extremely easy to avoid. He slowly walks towards you, and every single move is extremely telegraphed. Will you die the first couple times without Spidey-sense reflexes? Sure. But once you knew what his TWO moves were, you'd have to be really stupid to get hit by them.

He does nothing that's threatening to players who simply pay attention. I do not believe for a second that an assassin like the Wolf should be defeated by blindly pewpewing at him until he is dead. I don't believe any boss type enemy should be that easy.

Killing him, yes, would take decent gear, but that's not because he's hard to kill, it's because he had too much HP and armor, which was likely to make up for his extremely simple fight mechanics.


The only problems with the Wolf are:

  1. Doesn't scale to the mission or the players in the cell
  2. Bullet sponge

Those qualities are what push away new players *AND* upset veterans. Nobody is defending his design. We are simply saying, if he kills you, you need to learn to do more than just left-click until things die.

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On 2019-05-29 at 5:15 AM, SnuggleBuckets said:

Heard about Nightwave series 2 reducing grind and FOMO, and that's good.

But I'm still worried about the return of Nightwave, and will that again just push me off the game.


Addressed this in an earlier post, but I will repeat it here. As someone who works 50+ hours a week, every week, and still has to find a way to fit in time for sleep, regular adult things like groceries and cleaning and laundry, and time with the family, I still hit rank 50 of the Nightwave.

I did not do every Act every week. Some weeks I didn't log in until the weekend, and only logged in on Saturday OR Sunday, and burst out a handful of Acts. I only ever did the Acts that I felt like doing - I never completed the hour-long Kuva "don't use a life support" Act, for example.

I didn't do any of it out of FOMO - I did it because I had free time to just relax, so I logged into Warframe, checked the Nightwave alerts... and had something to do.

I could've gone further. I didn't have to go as far as I did.

If you experienced FOMO over Nightwave, you were being irrational. There was more than enough time to reach rank 30. It was possible to get WAY more Standing than you needed to get everything.

The only FOMO flaw in Nightwave was not clearly expressing this to players, meaning that players who didn't take the time to think about it never realized it.

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On 2019-05-20 at 6:23 PM, Almagnus1 said:

Doesn't matter if it's office or manual labor (manual labor is IMO easier to do cause it only leaves you physically exhausted, not mentally drained), but that's barely any work during the week TBH.  And also, 50 hours of work is nothing to complain about, as that's an average work week light work week, and they're (more often than not) longer.

Don't try to talk up what you do for work, especially if it's only 50 hours of work a week.

You're extremely rude and extremely ignorant.

I leave for work at 5:30 because of the commute, which means I need to be up by 4. It's seriously physical labor. If you think it's easier than office work, you've never done it. I've done office work. This is way more exhausting. I work in a weld shop for Toyota, working with raw metal every day, building trucks. I'm on my feet all day, using my muscles every minute I'm on the floor. Literally - because every minute that goes by is another truck that we work on. With the amount of overtime we got, I often do not leave work until 5, at the best. Often 6. I often am not back home until 7.

Notice how I didn't mention AM or PM?

I rotate shifts every two weeks. Meaning the AM and PM flip. I'm currently switching back from night shift, to day shift. This is the most exhausting part of our schedule - not being able to have a regular, steady sleeping rhythm is torture on the human body. Saturday morning I got home at 7. I mention 50 hours because that's all I get paid for. Nobody pays for commutes, and nobody pays for lunch breaks.

And if you think this physical labor doesn't leave me mentally drained, you SERIOUSLY haven't done it. There's a lot that we have to do on the floor besides just use our muscles. Again, I've worked in an office. I'm a computer programmer by trade, and I've done plenty of customer service work from a cubicle - i know what kind of mental challenges office work takes. This isn't any less challenging on the mind.

Don't talk down to other people about the work they have to do when you are completely uninformed about what kind of work they have to do. It's not a good look.

50 hours, also, is not normal, and not light work. Previous generations spent blood, sweat, and tears to fight for the right to a 40 hour work week.

--

The point of all this is simple: with being away from home for 12+ hours daily, and somehow finding a way to fit in 4-6 hours of sleep plus a regular life, I still found time to get Nightwave to rank 50, and that was WITHOUT doing EVERY Act. (Yes, I have "time" for a full 8 hours, but then all I will ever do is work and sleep, and I like to actually have a life, not to mention I like to find SOME way to fit gaming in)

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2 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

If you experienced FOMO over Nightwave, you were being irrational.

You're jumping to conclusions without enough context and information.
Just because YOU had no issues and didn't find things manipulative or troublesome, doesn't mean it wasn't for others.
An analogy:
Your "argument", that you had no issue grinding through Nightwave, is analogous to the people defending loot boxes, that you didn't find them have to psychologically pressured or manipulated you to do things you didn't want to do and you not being turned off by the system, makes you jump to the conclusion that everyone else who has issues is just being irrational, because from your limited viewpoint and lack of empathy that you can't see past, you see nothing bothersome with how the system was structured and presented as a whole to the player.

Good for you that you had no problems, and no doubt you aren't alone, but many found the nightwave system in Series 1 foundationally off-putting to its core.

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8 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

It sounds like you don't have a clue.

First off: nobody is claiming superiority for not having problems with the Wolf.
Second: If the Wolf kills you, you're not playing right.

This isn't because you're bad. It's because you're not dodging.

Sentence 1 - Claims previous poster is deficient, meaning present poster is superior

Sentence 2 - Lies about claiming superiority, after claiming superiority on sentence 1

Sentence 3 - Goes right back to claiming superiority

Sentence 4 - More lies about not claiming superiority.

Etc etc. Go back to Troll school, you silly little child. Some of us don't need to lie to look look tuff on an internet forum in front of people we will never meet to have a spark of self confidence, especially when you start trying to bring another poster down from sentence 1, again making yourself look bigger by trying to knock another person you will never meet down 

At a guess you got rolled by the wolf and his invincible helpers from day 1. And were not seen outside low levels with tricked out Rivened gear for the remainder of Nightwave. Am I right? ūüėĄ

Some of us have no need to lie our asses off to cover the fact that we have a desperately low self esteem. And some of us are not terrified that people might see that we are not the god player we pretend to be in front of random strangers.

And I bet you will be looking up my stats in game to make out that and crap and therefore what I said is invalid and you are still a Gamur God. Dude, I could be dying on the first wave on the defence at Lith and you would still be a stupid poser, fooling no-one with your "It's 7 inches! Really!" crap. 

Have a blessed day, and may all the blessing of life be upon you.

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On 2019-04-28 at 11:09 PM, wgselttls said:

Just some of my own advices:

1.Pls remove all the task that "with your friend".

2.Pls reconsider those task which are impossible to complete for new players (below tier 8). For example, "Gild one item“."Kill the Profit-Taker Orb"

3.Use 3 forma? Fille 3 Ayatana sculptures? If I already use them or fille them before those task appear, it makes me a little bit annoyed.

LET THE NW BECOME FRIENDLY TO NEW PLAYERS, PLS!

Yes this. They said nightwave was supposed to help new players get aura mods and needed things but it sucks for that. So many were impossible or too time consuming. One was help clam who i never heard of before, but in order to do that I had to do a bunch of quests that I REALLY REALLY REALLY hate! Way too time consuming! and it looked like end reward was just a specter that sucked and totes not worth the effort. And... at the same time I had to grind for relics to get stuff from voide trader and get new prime stuff.  And I cant play a lot as  it is.

Another was capture some monster in Plains but I didnt have that either.  I think another is Kuva survival that I didnt see and some other stuff. I think one you have to do the quest for titania which again I really hate because it detracts from things i actually like to do. But i wouldnt have minded doing the quest for new frame but I couldnt get it done in time for that challenge. 

I finally hit burn out and STOPPED PLAYING altogether. litterally cant. 

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6 Years of Warfame, highs and lows. I wont lie, I love the game. 

Now my girlfriend plays with me, she farms Ivara.... and cannot get Nitain. *facepalm 1*.
She is no quitter. She scrolls wiki, finds gohoul bounties have 6% chance to give Nitain.
Goes and does bounties. Finally gets reward, team goes for another mission... then you guessed it. Host migration. *facepalm 2*.
The look of disappointment of a woman in  her thirties when hard work goes in vain due to a game glitch.

She then did some missions closed the game and has not played since. 4 days now.

Does DE realize how much I went through to find a stable girlfriend, good looking, not crazy, faithful and plays Warframe? 

Do you know what she went through to get Ivara parts?

Nothing a man can do to help  his woman? I have plat, I have Nitain on my account, cannot buy and gift it, cannot trade it.

How can we survive this, raids were removed, but never before were relevant resources removed from the game. (rare caches and bounty rewards, do not count)

What kind of game design is this? You guys know better. This weekend will be Nitain alert, we have some family time planned. Good timing Warframe.

As a a software engineer I hazard a bet, you guys have Alert system hidden somewhere in the code repositories. Bring it back while Nightwave is down.

Oh and why is Nightwave shop down? She has the points, she could buy it right now, but no,... it is not available in game.

There are a a number of possible solutions available, you bring in the most unreliable one. Weekend Nitain alert. She is 1 part away from Wisp. Oh that requires Nitain again. *facepalm 3*.

Just give Nitain for plat like any normal game and e done with it. Then we can atleast buy it for cash, while we wait for next installment of Nightwave.

P.S.: I still love the game, have 111 Nitain, I just love people who also play the game alongside me. I will be sad to see some of them gone over bad design like this.

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So after looking at the resurgence of the old school MMO, I think this video dissecting what's going on with the reward structure actually plays into why I think Nightwave was more of a failure than DE thought it would have been:

 

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Well, to be fair, in the announcement of the end of Nightwave they said to spend all your Wolf Credits now as they would be gone once Nightwave 1 finished. I bought A LOT of Nitain when I read that.

But really they want you to spend plat¬†to buy your GF Ivara... I've never regretted Buying Ivara with money. tbh¬†ūüėĄ

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I logged in for some reason the other day after a long break from the game and Nightwave was gone. I was so happy. I don't think I fully appreciated how much I hated that f2p pointless grindy crapfest. Looking forward to playing again. PS, please don't bring it back...ever. You can bring sexy lips back though, could be a good use for that radio in the ship. Wouldn't mind hearing her give a weather forecast or two - know what i'm sayin'? nudge nudge, wink wink.

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Just remove Nightwave and add some real content that people actually want to play .

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Please don't make this "blank" period ever again.

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9 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

Please don't make this "blank" period ever again.

Yeah this "limbo" time period is also really stressful, with alerts you had multiple nitain opportunities a day, aura and cosmetic ones as well, and a decent chance to see a potato alert or two in any given week.
Now I'm burning through the last of my potatoes, desperate even for an invasion to pop up again.
I was considering putting money in the game back when I hopped in with the Jovian Concord update, but the more time goes by without any remedy to this awkward troubling state, the less inclined I am in doing so.
Still dreading Nightwave Series 2 though, as I doubt they will have done much to the underlying foundational problems it has.

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I have only request for you Dear Develepers. Don't bring that utter garbage Nightwave ever again.

I don't wanna hear Nora for me she is most hated character that i would like to meet her and rip her into shreds and feed my kubrows with her carcass.

Why Nightwave is utter garbage??

1.Blatantly unrelated chores that doesn't have any connection to telled story.(I know putting up good story is maybe hard,but why not sit and think up good lore and quest related to it instead bring this?)

2. Annoying enemies ,no seriously those midget sounding grineers and their Big Boss who probably had lobotomy performed made me drive insane.

3.Wolf's moveset is so predictable and its simply merge of conculyst and crushing ruin moves.How lackluster u can be??

4.Those chores literally were like good deterrent from game.Seriously after doing all chores i just log in log out. I was so disgusted even watching on my warframes and orbiter.

5. And yeah once again Nora Night aka miss how sassy and good i am.Seriously if u put up quest to kill Nora i would be first to do so and i would enjoy slowly murder her.

Just let me play and enjoy this game like in old times ,think up some better way to occupy us,cause way u done Nightwave is was good way to scare out many new players.

If that is urs intention(to drive away players from this game) u doing very good job

 

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb Syq111:

1.Blatantly unrelated chores that doesn't have any connection to telled story.(I know putting up good story is maybe hard,but why not sit and think up good lore and quest related to it instead bring this?)

Sadly this is the most accurate thing, we lost Quests for Garuda, Baruuk, Hyldrin and Wisp probably to.

It was stated they dropepd those to put more frames out, yet they got time to put Nightwave and Nora in.

I know Warframe is not that much Quest and Story related but it is there and we clearly like to expand on that universe, Nora does defintly not contribute any to it.

Waste of resoruces and time. I like DE but this almsot made me quit Warframe if not for the variety of the frames and weapons itself at least.

Nightwave season 2 i might do still since it happens nearby, but it is defintly nothing i look forward to and i still not get why alerts couldn't exist alongside it, they were flawed but worked mostly, now in between seasons new players have trouble to get nitaiin at all as example.

Nightwave is a very bad example of a battlepass, stop it DE please, for your own good.

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7 hours ago, Syq111 said:

And yeah once again Nora Night aka miss how sassy and good i am.Seriously if u put up quest to kill Nora i would be first to do so and i would enjoy slowly murder her

 

You may well be the first, but that would be a mission with an absolute record in attendance. Think of it: For every time you kill nora in that mission, you get one day off from her voicelines and quests.

Holy HEK I would be playing that over and over again. Talk about incentives to play! 

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Soooo I just realized one additional thing. Forget nitain, auras are f****d. Like I have a friend of mine who returned to the game after a long time and today he asked me if I have spare aura... cause you know, we can't get those from alerts anymore + the cost for auras are kinda high for what they are and for how mandatory those are (25 plat for unranked steel charge over at .market atm). 25 plat may sound not much but for people returning without a full pocket of it or even people starting the game... this is busted.

I didn't even thought my opinion about nightwave and current drought can go any lower. But here we are.

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Let's see...

Nightwave was most of the reason why I took a break from Warframe for the last couple of months, I kinda hoped to just wait it out until it went away on its own so regular Alerts would be brought back. Now I'm back after being kicked from my guild for inactivity but the worst part is that I'm hearing that Alerts will be gone from the game for good and Nightwave is here to stay. Good God...

It felt boring, grindy, unrewarding and overall just a chore I had to force myself to do every week. Nevermind the first Season of Nightwave, I couldn't even finish the first part of it. Logging into the game to see a new batch of missions only to witness those "1 Hour of Kuva Survival" types just made me let out a sigh of frustration every single time, it legit made me NOT want to keep playing the game. As for the rewards, 95% of them felt useless to me: Cosmetics? Didn't care about. Forma? I can get those much more easily with Relics. Nitain? Already have a heap of it. Mods? I don't even use those weapons in the first place.

Now, I liked the Alert system since I began playing Warframe. It wasn't bad to wait for a new interesting alert to pop up so I had an excuse to log back into the game every day, mostly for Nitain or Vauban parts. I also used them as another way to make some extra cash as a beginner, before I had access to Index and other means. But even after that point I still used Alerts together with Syndicate missions as a way to level up gear (when my Galaxy map was complete and I didn't want to get EXP just by repeating nodes over and over, Alerts at least added an element of randomness to that) but now I only have half of that available, and that's my main point of objection here: by taking Alerts out and replacing them with something else, you, the Devs, are just limiting people's options on how they can have fun with the game.

Honestly, I'm not against the idea of Nightwave, but I'd love to see Alerts kept in the game so that me and other people still have other options to enjoy the game, even when Nightwave is on. Hopefully DE will take this into consideration before making the decision to sacrifice content instead of just adding to it.

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It would be nice if the credits we earned during the season were still exchangeable for a week or two after the season ends.

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It would be nice if while this foolish nightwave thing wasn't happening normal alerts would come back, better yet keep them going all the time so people with things like jobs can still make progress.

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"We would like to add some Ephemeras wich you unlock by doing something special, like an Eidolon Ephemera after capturing 100 Eidolons"

And then, you only have to level up 15 levels of the second nightwave... 

Idk, still is everything free to all, nothing to work for it.

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