Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[Tellakey]

Just now, Zilchy said:

oh well in that case, that's just very bad luck. I maintain that being in a clan is the best way to prevent this but I sympathize with you.

Indeed, indeed. Though technically this could happen still within a clan. Oh well, I appreciate your input 😄

[--END--Rikutatis]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)JustitiaCaelum said:

 If this game wants to challenge us, there needs to be missions where the enemy levels start at above sortie level (not to mention better AI and varied skills/weapons,and not just knockdown for days, but oh well.)

I completely agree and would love to see that. But for exactly the reasons I outlined in my post, DE has refused to start any game mode above lvl 60 in the past year, even game modes that were originally meant to be "veteran" content like ESO and Arbitrations. Even sortie 3 and kuva flood have a starting level higher than that as you said.

To make matters worse, they messed with Arbitrations enemy scaling, so you'll get much higher enemy levels (and much faster) by doing a normal Starchart endless mission than by doing an Arbitration, which was supposed to be veteran content.

 

3 minutes ago, TheFBD said:

Lots of people in this thread seem to take Nightwaves as "new content". It's not - and it should not be! It replaces an existing system for beginning and intermediate players to get some good mods, rare components and maybe some help on hard missions. It's crazy to change that helpful system into new "elite" end-game veteran endurance challenges! 

That's nonsense and a false narrative that has been tossed around in these forums. Alerts is a 6 year old system. It just happened that over the years, it fell to the wayside and became something only used by new players for the most part. The devs clearly want Alerts/Nightwave to be a system that is interesting and valuable to both new and veteran players though. They just need to find the right balance there. Umbral forma, arcane energize and stuff like that is clearly not rewards aimed at "beginning to intermediate" level players. It's endgame stuff for people that really want to min-max their builds to the extreme. There's no reason why a brand new player would need umbral forma or even arcanes. 

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

That sounds like a personal problem, and not a problem with NIghtwave. If they had to go, that sucks, try again.

[SweetScreams]

Most pressing need is a way to MUTE Nora like the other voices, I wana smash my monitor every time she speaks. Other than that I like the new method

[MagPrime]

Just now, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

That sounds like a personal problem, and not a problem with NIghtwave. If they had to go, that sucks, try again.

QFT

[Tellakey]

1 minute ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

That sounds like a personal problem, and not a problem with NIghtwave. If they had to go, that sucks, try again.

Well, I'd call it a frequent liability that's rooted in the awful mechanics of Nightwave.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, Tellakey said:

Well, I'd call it a frequent liability that's rooted in the awful mechanics of Nightwave.

With all due respect, join a decent clan with active members cos there's undoubtedly more group challenges headed our way and that's the most effective method of completing them.

[Tellakey]

Just now, Zilchy said:

With all due respect, join a decent clan with active members cos there's undoubtedly more group challenges headed our way and that's the most effective method of completing them.

I already have a clan. And it's very active. I'm just saying that this circumstance isn't exclusive to non-clan squads.

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

Maybe I don’t have a say since I’ve only been here for three years, or because I’m not considered a vet.

I like Nightwave. I don’t like that it has replaced alerts.

Nightwave feels more like an event with specific challenges, though. I don’t mind if there’s certain cosmetics locked behind WC- makes me wonder what I really need, and if I really NEED those rewards. 

 However, if I want Nitain or other resources, I won’t be able to GET those cosmetics unless I do most of the challenges.

 My main concern here is of newer players. When I was new and I learned about aura mods, I’d always be ecstatic to jump on and nab one. I mean, resources and aura mods were pretty much something I needed, especially for adding capacity to my warframes when I didn’t have potatoes.

If you’re new and don’t know about the elements yet or just learning, you may not be able to do half these challenges- elite ones not included.

 But if it’s to replace the alert system, why do we HAVE elite challenges? Why challenges if they’re supposed to be alerts? How does this cater to newer players who wouldn’t be able to get aura mods otherwise, either with missing out because they simply cannot do some of the challenges, or having to buy them with plat?

Im half asleep so sorry if this doesn’t make sense. But this is pretty much my input.

TL;DR: Concerns about newer players unable to get Wolf creds to get needed items such as aura slots, and why do we have challenges when this is literally supposed to be replacing the ALERT system.

[Pie_mastyr]

I think 60 minutes is a bit long for some players. Though personally, I had a blast doing this one just in PUG. It's been a while since did a longer survival run or kuva for that matter. I also got super lucky and the 2 other people just happened to be thinking along the same lines as me.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

1 minute ago, Tellakey said:

Well, I'd call it a frequent liability that's rooted in the awful mechanics of Nightwave.

Hmm... I disagree. If a person genuinely has to leave and is unable to complete the challenge, that does not mean that Nightwave is bad. And by the way, apparently you can miss up to 13000 points in Nightwave and still get to Tier 30, or you can alternatively farm Saturn Six Fugitive captures.

[Tellakey]

1 minute ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Hmm... I disagree. If a person genuinely has to leave and is unable to complete the challenge, that does not mean that Nightwave is bad. And by the way, apparently you can miss up to 13000 points in Nightwave and still get to Tier 30, or you can alternatively farm Saturn Six Fugitive captures.

I didn't make that argument. All I'm saying is that Nightwave's challenges are ill-conceived and are easily sabotaged by everyday circumstances. I think DE could easily fix the issue by tweaking challenge requirements and boosting the number of points you get per challenge completed.

[angias]

à l’instant, Zilchy a dit :

Mark the time, the players that were in the mission, any screenshot evidence etc send it support and report his ass for being a griefer.

This a weird time for warframe, when not complementing challenge/additionnal objective is considered grieffing.

Unexpected event in real life is also a thing, though i have no clue if this apply to the said person.

Yet being extra punished for not having enough guts or giving up is kinda harsh.

But the player should know what he is getting himself into and shouldn't expect to be completely carried.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

2 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

I didn't make that argument. All I'm saying is that Nightwave's challenges are ill-conceived and are easily sabotaged by everyday circumstances. I think DE could easily fix the issue by tweaking challenge requirements and boosting the number of points you get per challenge completed.

Maybe, but I think this is just bad luck on your part. I find it really hard to believe that absolutely no one plays the game for at least an hour. Look at Tridolon runs. That can be "easily sabotaged" but absolutely no one is complaining about those.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, angias said:

This a weird time for warframe, when not complementing challenge/additionnal objective is considered grieffing.

Unexpected event in real life is also a thing, though i have no clue if this apply to the said person.

Yet being extra punished for not having enough guts or giving up is kinda harsh.

But the player should know what he is getting himself into and shouldn't expect to be completely carried.

No I misread it, the original topic title was edited, it said "just had a player leave in the last minutes". So I assumed they had trolled the group.

[Tellakey]

1 minute ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Maybe, but I think this is just bad luck on your part. I find it really hard to believe that absolutely no one plays the game for at least an hour. Look at Tridolon runs. That can be "easily sabotaged" but absolutely no one is complaining about those.

People have actually complained about those for a long time until DE kinda fixed them. There are certain issues in the game that players are tired of complaining about because they have persisted so long without any attention from DE that what's point? Cetus Wisp, for example, or the recently fixed bug where you can't use any abilities and have to die. Nobody complained about it in the forums, but it's been a serious issue for a long time.

[Tellakey]

3 minutes ago, angias said:

This a weird time for warframe, when not complementing challenge/additionnal objective is considered grieffing.

Unexpected event in real life is also a thing, though i have no clue if this apply to the said person.

Yet being extra punished for not having enough guts or giving up is kinda harsh.

But the player should know what he is getting himself into and shouldn't expect to be completely carried.

@Zilchy didn't know the full context of the situation. They didn't deem it griefing just because. I might have been unclear in my OP.

[SweatyFalcon]

Wow, a thread with insightful logic and responses. With no ill feelings too.

What has the world come to.

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, SweatyFalcon said:

Wow, a thread with insightful logic and responses. With no ill feelings too.

What has the world come to.

 

Hush don't break the spell. This is old magic, very powerful.

[dpencil]

@[DE]Bear  Feedback and Suggestions for Nightwave:

FEEDBACK

1. Personally, I am really enjoying the whole Nightwave experience. The challenges have encouraged me to engage in activities like 60 minute kuva survival and perfect captures that I had not gotten around to before. I think the system really helps to get players engaged in the really wide array of content this game has to offer.

2. The rewards are really nice, both in terms of the rank up rewards and the cred offerings. Personally, the sigils and such are the least interesting things. Cosmetics like the armor are very cool, as well as all the very useful things. The weapon augments are hit or miss, as players may have no interest in using that specific weapon.

3. I appreciate work is already being done to add Nora's quips to the transmission hint toggle switch. While I understand where the inspiration for this character comes from, I have to admit she seems very out of place in this world. She really pulls me out of the sense of sci-fi fantasy. I can handle her in small doses, like the lore cutscenes, but I really don't want to hear her all the time when I complete a challenge or every time I need to check the Nightwave menu.

4. It's good that some further adjustment will be done to balancing the challenges a bit more. Overall they are good, there are just a few outliers that have already been called out.

 

SUGGESTIONS

1. 24 hour Alerts: One of the main problems with Alerts was the "pay to sleep" problem of how limited they were on time. The Gift of the Lotus alerts were purposefully extended to give players a chance to get them. Since a good number of players are giving feedback that the Nightwave system, while good, doesn't directly replace the Alert system in terms of immediate 1-mission 1-reward payoff, I suggest adding back in a set of alerts that last for 24 hours. Say, 3 a day, at the beginner, intermediate, and advanced positions on the star chart. They should be for a large amount of credits and a particular resource. Example: Wednesday's Alerts - Earth, 10k credits, 2k alloy; Saturn, 20k credits, 5k plastids; Pluto, 30k credits, 5 gallium. This limited use of alerts would allow that itch in the playerbase to still be scratched, with a bigger payoff from each alert, so the fact that there were only a few each day would not be a big deal.

2. Early Nightwave Creds: To help new players, I think the first rank of any Nightwave should be for Creds. This way players can access cred offerings immediately. Especially considering the Aura mods will be on rotation and not just all available all the time, it's very possible a casual player would not get to the first rank that offers Creds in the first week, meaning they would have no opportunity to pick up a specific Aura they wanted. So like from Season 1, shifting the 3rd tier reward to the 1st tier, and then shifting the current 1st and 2nd tiers back to 2nd and 3rd would have been better.

3. Acts = Thematic Categories of Challenges: I think one of the best ways to address negative feedback from this or that challenge is to give players more choice. There should only be a certain number of Elite Weeklies that a player can do (3), but what challenges those are could be different from player to player. Say there are a variety of challenge "sets" that are categorized by different kinds of Acts. Acts of Endurance, Bravery, Stealth, Speed, Precision, Compassion, etc. Each week, 3 Acts would be randomly generated for the Elite Weeklies. Example: [On the Nightwave Screen one of the challenge spots would simply say something like "Elite Act of Endurance: 5k standing, Select an Elite Endurance Challenge from a set of 3 choices." The player clicks on the Act and a submenu pops up that reveals a list of 3 challenges: 1. Survive for 60 minutes without using life support (cumulative with multiple missions).  2. Collect 4 rewards from Arbitrations (cumulative with multiple missions).  3. Earn 400k credits from the Index (cumulative with multiple missions).] These would not be the only 3 possible Endurance challenges ever, but a set of 3 from a larger list that all fall into the Endurance category. So there would be randomization both of which Act categories were available each week and out of each category, what 3 challenges in that category would be available. This would give players freedom of choice, while still keeping the range of options limited and varied. The same process could be done for the regular weeklies, as well. Example: ["Act of Speed: 3k standing, Select a Speed Challenge from a set of 3 choices." Submenu choices: 1. Complete 2 capture mission in 60 seconds or less (cumulative).  2. Excavate 1000 Cryotic in 20 minutes of less (cumulative with multiple missions). 3. Complete a Hive mission in 5 minutes or less.] Once the player selects one of the 3 choices, that becomes what Nora tracks. The player can return to the menu to swap out for a different one of the challenges if they change their mind. This system would make sure that players could only get the allotted amount of available standing each week, but would give them much more flexibility in what activities they engaged in to earn that standing, while still keeping things thematically appropriate. Bonus example of a weekly set: ["Act of Abundance" 1. Turn in 20 fish for standing in Cetus or Fortuna.  2. Perform 10 perfect captures.  3. Mine a total of 100 ore or jems from deposits.]

 

Thanks for considering these suggestions!

Edited March 5, 2019 by dpencil

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

Personal problems can arise whenever it's not the game's fault stuff happens it's the same thig as people going at wave 7 of eso plans get borked try again with another team. Me n 1 friend did the 60 min kuva surv so it's doable with just 2 people.

Also these are onlly the elite challenges it's 10k total you can miss 13k a week and convict captures chip away at that 13k as well. So relax if a challenge isn't for you you can just do other stuff.

Edited March 5, 2019 by (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam

[BeKorni]

I think DE needs to sperate the Wolf Credit aspect a little more. Not tying it to the level/ladder progression, but tying it to completing challenges. Alerts were a thing were you hop in and get the reward. So it would be counterproductive to lock wolf credits behind level 4/8... ect. So if a player does  daily challenge x he gets y credits. If he does weekly challlenge x he gets 2 times y credits. So players get wolf credits on the fly and be able to buy mods ect while still being time gated through limited challenges. Like Alerts were time gated but with much more controll over it.

Furthermore I think DE should not try to cater to everyone. Don't mainstream missions just so everybody can do every challenge. Instead make a broad spectrum of different challenges so there are enough for solo players, endurance players ect. For example I had fun doing the 60 minute kuva survival with strangers that i added as friends just before the mission. We had a fun time chatting during the mission, something I was missing for a longer time.

Many people seem to be scared they won't be able to get to level 30 when they can't do a specific challenge. Just make sure everyone can get there in a reasonable time. I know DE always mention that you don't have to do everything but it seems people a still scared they have to. Maybe because balancing was never DEs strength. POE ect were grindy as #*!% at first and still are at some extend.

With some adjustements this Nightwave can be a great thing for new players while giving old players some more variety and breaking their monotone habbits.

[XzWasPzX]

Recruitment Chat: LF/H Nightwave Kuva Survival 1h 

Enjoy.

 

This is what i did when i saw the challenge, and it worked, 4 people answered me and asked to add each others as friends, we discussed for some mins the strategy and 60 mins later we achieved 2 challenges at once... Its not so difficult. Indeed, i have carry 2 more teams too, clanmates who came later, and a friend. Need help? PM in game if u want.

[(PSN)NemitheNem]

You know what I have issue with?  The Wolf Creds.  Look, I get it, [DE] wants to have tight control over the good times drip so people will still use plat on slots and potatoes.  It's still way too limited.

I think it would be nice if at least Wolf himself had a small chance to drop wolf creds, like five tops.  I think it would also be nice if the fugitives also had an even smaller chance to drop a single cred.

Then, perhaps at the final week/act players could trade in creds for standing at a lowish rate

[Tellakey]

8 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said:

Recruitment Chat: LF/H Nightwave Kuva Survival 1h 

Enjoy.

 

This is what i did when i saw the challenge, and it worked, 4 people answered me and asked to add each others as friends, we discussed for some mins the strategy and 60 mins later we achieved 2 challenges at once... Its not so difficult. Indeed, i have carry 2 more teams too, clanmates who came later, and a friend. Need help? PM in game if u want.

Reread OP.