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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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2 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

I love the "kill x amount of enemies with a gilded weapon" idea. I think 1500 is way too many tho. That's the kill requirement for an elite act already. Having that plus the modifier of requiring it to be kills from a guided weapon should make it worth way more. Especially since a lot of people get most of their kills for that act from warframe abilities. 1500 kills by a gilded weapon is way too tedious, 500 I think is a much more reasonable number, its still a tedious task to accomplish with just weapon kills.

Possibly requiring a specific gilded weapon is also a terrible idea. A lot of end game players will likely have mastered all the modular weapons yes. But most of those players will have immediately thrown out all but their favorites afterwards and so wouldn't have them, and would have to rebuild them to clear the mission anyways. This would incentivize players to keep one of every modular weapon in their inventory, taking up a massive amount of weapon slots. This would become a pay to win act

By specific I mean any Kit gun or any Zaw since they can separate their rivens it might be an easier to implement than to have it be any gilded modular item.

 

I was just spit balling a number, I want it to be slightly more difficult for you to go one way but the trade off there is you can play more how you want rather than be forced to build and gild something you might not want to do.

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Posted (edited)

The "Energizing" act is redundant; it's just a kill-count act with an RNG component, as you get energy orbs chiefly from killing enemies. Maybe some people appreciate the difference in fluff, though. Gilding and Forma acts are just evil, and especially rude after you've finished multiple zaws already or have things with 7+ forma, something that becomes a tedious grind without something requiring more of it.


Alerts served a fun jump-in-and-play-a-little function that's not around anymore.
They were something you could hop into for a fun little bit of play and flexing, especially for a short play session, and really they just needed better rewards. You were also sure to grouped with others in an alert because of their visibility and accessibility. especially when they were offering something people might've actually wanted/lacked

Edited by Oaxs
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On 2019-07-01 at 3:13 AM, (XB1)Nightseid said:

Again, the nightwave challenges should really just be dailies, no weeklies. 

Personally I think having only weekly tasks would be much more fair across the board (though dailies having 3 days to do them is decent) as some players only get their 'weekend' to play due to many other commitments (those players DE call 'Weekend Warriors').

Largely Nightwave was meant to help people achieve the rewards from alerts.  If it was daily then there really is not that much point to them over alerts at all, and many more downsides than simply extending pertinent alerts to 24 hours in length (like was done for gift of the louts).

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On 2019-07-01 at 2:13 AM, (XB1)Nightseid said:

Again, the nightwave challenges should really just be dailies, no weeklies. 

I want both, but with much more standings, we should be able to complete all dailies or bunch of weeklies to get full standings.

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@Loswaith @Test-995

Reworking nightwave to only dailies would be much more rewarding across the board for everyone especially for weekend warriors/ casual players, much like how guild wars 2 switched to only daily challenges.

Most challenges can be accomplished in one day except those complete multiple sorties.

Only dailies you won't need a catch up mechanic. The catch up mechanic only activates when all challenges are completed this will be difficult for  player that may not be able to log until saturday and has to complete 3 sorties.

Those complaining about burn out on nightwave is because they are attempting to complete all task at once knowing there is a time limit at the end. 

 

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Amazing. No rewards after level 15 of Intermission. 

 

I guess DE really doesn't want people to play their game.

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vor 7 Stunden schrieb Xepthrichros:

Amazing. No rewards after level 15 of Intermission. 

 

I guess DE really doesn't want people to play their game.

Please no, i want to play but not like this under pressure that i could miss anything, make it a syndicat when i can play whenever i want, simple as it is.

This Nightwave is a nightmare game design wise, events are fine but not like this, it makes you think you are pushed to play, sure our own fault to feel like this but the presentation of Nightwave tells you to rush, no timer in game, no indicator how much you are allowed to miss, etc.

Sure we get told in forum like with session 1 you need only 60%, but you can't see it anywhere nor can you see or tell what are the next challanges, some could be impossible for some due locked out or simply feel not rewarding like the 3 forma one for some people.

It fails at all levels, sorry.

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1 hour ago, Marine027 said:

Please no, i want to play but not like this under pressure that i could miss anything, make it a syndicat when i can play whenever i want, simple as it is.

This Nightwave is a nightmare game design wise, events are fine but not like this, it makes you think you are pushed to play, sure our own fault to feel like this but the presentation of Nightwave tells you to rush, no timer in game, no indicator how much you are allowed to miss, etc.

Sure we get told in forum like with session 1 you need only 60%, but you can't see it anywhere nor can you see or tell what are the next challanges, some could be impossible for some due locked out or simply feel not rewarding like the 3 forma one for some people.

It fails at all levels, sorry.

What are you saying "no" to?

 

There are no rewards after tier 15. Right now there's literally no point for anyone to log in after Tier 15.

Thus DE doesn't want people to play their game.

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb Xepthrichros:

What are you saying "no" to?

 

There are no rewards after tier 15. Right now there's literally no point for anyone to log in after Tier 15.

Thus DE doesn't want people to play their game.

You indirectly saying you want more nightwave to grind in a limited time? If not i worded it wrong simply, was impulsive written.

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13 hours ago, Marine027 said:

You indirectly saying you want more nightwave to grind in a limited time? If not i worded it wrong simply, was impulsive written.

Are you saying getting more nora credits after Tier 15 is bad?

Seriously?

So you rather not even launch the game? Ok then.

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Is there anyway to have Wolf of Sarturn six rewards back? because i was so busy in previous months, so many night shifts. 

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-07-02 at 11:11 PM, (XB1)Nightseid said:

@Loswaith @Test-995

Reworking nightwave to only dailies would be much more rewarding across the board for everyone especially for weekend warriors/ casual players, much like how guild wars 2 switched to only daily challenges.

Most challenges can be accomplished in one day except those complete multiple sorties.

Only dailies you won't need a catch up mechanic. The catch up mechanic only activates when all challenges are completed this will be difficult for  player that may not be able to log until saturday and has to complete 3 sorties.

Those complaining about burn out on nightwave is because they are attempting to complete all task at once knowing there is a time limit at the end. 

 

The issue however is that DE have decided that a player is required to get at-least 60% to complete a chapter.  which is going for that mean you need to play for at-least about 4 of the 7 days in a week.  Meaning 'weekend warriors' have to complete everything available to them.  Having just weeklies means they have to only do 60% of the tasks, same as every other player.

Now if you are meaning instead, having tasks that only take a day to achieve then that is a different matter, and I would agree with you on that one.

As it stands though only the sorties take multiple days to achieve, everything else you can do in one day (Simaris gives credit for any captures the group does, not just your own).

Edited by Loswaith
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1 hour ago, Loswaith said:

The issue however is that DE have decided that a player is required to get at-least 60% to complete a chapter.  which is going for that mean you need to play for at-least about 4 of the 7 days in a week.  Meaning 'weekend warriors' have to complete everything available to them.  Having just weeklies means they have to only do 60% of the tasks, same as every other player.

Now if you are meaning instead, having tasks that only take a day to achieve then that is a different matter, and I would agree with you on that one.

As it stands though only the sorties take multiple days to achieve, everything else you can do in one day (Simaris gives credit for any captures the group does, not just your own).

Not sure why everyone is acting like these tasks take days. I know some use the word days figuratively, but some do make it seem like it's impossible to even log in for 30 minutes. 

 

Just going to refer to current laundry list which is a mix of dailies and weeklies.

Kill 150 enemies with cold. -> Take Frost or pack your Glaxion Vandal. Go to an exterminate or defense, kill. Done. 5 minutes.

Kill 40 enemies with headshots. -> Take Harrow, or your favorite sniper rifle, or both. Go to any mission, or POE, kill. Done. 30 minutes at maximum if you do it reaaaaally slowly.

Mine 6 rare gems on PoE -> 1 hour if you have really unlucky RNG.

Complete 9 invasions -> Do exterminates and captures. 2-3 minutes each. 30 minutes to do them all.

5 Simaris scans -> 5 minutes per scan. Up to 10 minutes each, I'm giving some allowance for bad luck and the simaris target not spawning. 1 hour total playtime.

1 Sortie -> Assuming you do one that includes some assassination of Ambulas or a Survival mission, up to 1 hour.

Complete 4 halls of ascension -> Assuming you are unlucky and the halls do not spawn, up to 1 hour of trying.

30 Minutes Kuva survival -> The duration is in the task description.

Total: 5 hours, 35 minutes. If you split over several days, you can slice it into 10-30 minutes each day and you easily get it done. Furthermore, the daily task usually can be done in tandem with a weekly task, since you can take that Frost or Glaxion Vandal to that Invasion mission to kill 150 enemies with cold and get tasks done simultaneously. Same for any other daily. Kill with toxin? Bring a Saryn and do one of the weeklies. Kill X enemies with primary? Kill X enemies with abilities? Bullet jump whatever number of times? Just do them all while doing another weekly. 

 

Unless you are easily distracted wherein after you log in, instead of getting anything done, you loiter on region chat and stare at fashion frame for your 30 minutes of spare time that day, and not do anything for nightwave. In such a case, it's not a game design failure, it's more on you.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

Not sure why everyone is acting like these tasks take days. I know some use the word days figuratively, but some do make it seem like it's impossible to even log in for 30 minutes. 

The term day is typically used to mean play time per day.  The tasks take a day because you need a play session to achieve them.

For some people, no they cant even log in for 30 minutes in a day.  Keep in mind people have to juggle work, family, all those life aspects and everything else that crops up before giving their time to games.  While maybe they get only 30 mins to play games per day, maybe they get a few hours.  We are all different.

Also keep in mind that nightwave replaced those 5-15 minute games people could do for the rewards (even you noted some can take around an hour now).  Something DE likes to also push with the bite size chunks of game play.  

Edited by Loswaith
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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Loswaith said:

 

For some people, no they cant even log in for 30 minutes in a day.  Keep in mind people have to juggle work, family, all those life aspects and everything else that crops up before giving their time to games.  While maybe they get only 30 mins to play games per day, maybe they get a few hours.  We are all different.

 

Honestly they should not be designing the game around these people. You are catering to literally the people that cannot or will not play the game. If they cannot find time to play 30 minutes a day, does that mean everyone who can play 30 minutes a day has to stop for their sake? The tasks already are so short and if it is made any shorter, might as well scrap nightwave tasks and just put a bunch of 3 minute youtube videos. You watch the videos and cash in on the rewards. And I just threw out 30 minutes as an average play time. You can cut it to 10 minutes a day on weekdays and make up for it on the weekends with 2 or 3 hours to finish up the rest. Whatever it is your schedule is. If you literally cannot play even 10 minutes a day, and cannot play at all for weeks and weeks, then you should just don't play and do whatever it is that is more important to you in life. And if feel you are missing out then too bad. This is what live service games are like. I joined warframe in late 2017 and missed all the operations and events that happened before that, including pre-reworked warframes, the void key system, and perhaps things which could be relevant to appreciating the lore or limited time cosmetics etc. and that's all there is to it. I just had to accept I will never experience those things cos this is how live services work. And I will just have to work harder for vaulted primes or wait for their vault to be unsealed or pay the plat to other players for them. But by the logic of catering to those with no time, I guess since I cannot or didn't play, the game shouldn't have progressed and waited for me to play? Pfft. It's a live service game and I knew what I signed up for. 

Also, the tasks are so short and easy to do - thanks to the attempts at catering to people with no time, and somehow this attempt at catering is still not good enough and it has to be shortened further, that after you're done, say on Monday, in one 5 hour session, you can just shut off the game and it's over for the whole week. Even for those with time to play or want to play, there is little incentive to play and more reason to be bored. Trying so hard to cater to inactive players that you now hurt the active player's enjoyment of the game. It's no surprise that more and more WF youtube content creators have begun making videos of other games lately too, since there's nothing left to do. Besides, Nightwave was not really content to begin with. It's just what you usually do in the past, but now you are reminded they exist, like how some people would ignore Simaris or Nightmare missions until nightwave pointed them at it, and the rate at which you earn a reward is changed (to be slower, imo). No new challenges or anything. They are not even like the Riven tasks that require some extra steps to accomplish. That being said, if there are nightwave tasks available and rewards from them, then there is at least some semblance of a thing to do.

12 hours ago, Loswaith said:

Also keep in mind that nightwave replaced those 5-15 minute games people could do for the rewards

Which is also one of the crappiest decisions made by DE.

The random alerts gave people a reason to log in and wait around, and see what comes up. People with a lot of time can be rewarded. People with no time but are savvy enough to refer to those Alert tracking websites for whenever alerts popped up can just log in whenever a convenient time coincided with an alert reward they want, get a mission done quickly and get the reward. These random alerts can let a person get around 1 potato or more a week, now the potatoes are earned much slower with the nightwave credits and you have to dedicate the credits to them and forego other things you may want like the alt helmets, mods, etc. (not that I have that problem anymore since I got all the alt helmets but too bad for you all, especially new players, who didn't get those helmets). But now with this intermission in particular, after tier 15, you literally are done with the game. No rewards. No point to even hang around and wait to see what RNG drops by since no random alerts. 

I will take old Alerts back any time of the day. But since we are stuck with this nightwave, there should be at least some credits given out after tier 15.

Edited by Xepthrichros
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4 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

The tasks already are so short and if it is made any shorter, might as well scrap nightwave tasks and just put a bunch of 3 minute youtube videos. You watch the videos and cash in on the rewards.

Great, do it, i would love daily 3-minute official youtube vid with reward.

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4 hours ago, Test-995 said:

Great, do it, i would love daily 3-minute official youtube vid with reward.

Precisely how to kill your own game. Cater to people that don't want or care to play it.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

You can cut it to 10 minutes a day on weekdays and make up for it on the weekends with 2 or 3 hours to finish up the rest. Whatever it is your schedule is. If you literally cannot play even 10 minutes a day, and cannot play at all for weeks and weeks, then you should just don't play and do whatever it is that is more important to you in life

I haven't once talked about people that cant play weeks on end (i.e. inactive players), and I am in no way advocating the game should be made for those people.

We are talking about over one week, not months or years. 

So lets say person A can play only on weekends, but can play 10-15 hours on them.  While person B can only play 1-2 hours a day.  Dailly events mean that player B can do everything, while Player A misses out, they both play the same amount.  Why should player A have to miss out?

 

21 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

I joined warframe in late 2017 and missed all the operations and events that happened before that, including pre-reworked warframes, the void key system, and perhaps things which could be relevant to appreciating the lore or limited time cosmetics etc. and that's all there is to it.

All the loot of which DE has bought back at one time or another (because they felt it wasn't fare to all current players), or aren't any different from what we have now. A few shoulder badges are the exception.
Most of the events are even normal missons now, while plenty of people that had played them actually ask for them to return even now, which is why you can get all the loot and there are even unvaulting for you to participate in for the prime stuff you may have missed.

As an example, The Gradivus Dilemma, one of the most well known events, is now the invasions and has spawned crossfire.  It is what the event was (but you had to run up to 100 bounties, each 5 mission long, to complete one side.  Do the other side and you lost points).  Like wise Fusion Moa, Survival, Arid Fear, Rathum/Index, and most of the other events are basically the same stuff you have in game to do now.

Sure some of the lore is gone from within the game, the rest is till there.  So you really haven't missed out on as much as you think you have.

Edited by Loswaith

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Loswaith said:

So lets say person A can play only on weekends, but can play 10-15 hours on them.  While person B can only play 1-2 hours a day.  Dailly events mean that player B can do everything, while Player A misses out, they both play the same amount.  Why should player A have to miss out?

You can miss all the daily acts and still hit tier 15 (intermission) or 30 (Saturn Six) easy. Furthermore, the daily acts are so easy to do that you can do them in 15 minutes.  Majority of the progression in nightwave is tied to the weekly acts, not the dailies.

So I don't know what you are arguing for. No one is missing out a lot by missing dailies. The game already has so little, you remove dailies and you have even less things. To me, sounds like you are arguing on some hypothetical situation not reflective of reality, or really on behalf of the the players that don't even want to play.

 

Only Nightwave missable is the Saturn Six cosmetics which I don't believe the devs have said they are going to bring back. But that's the fault of all you Nightwave advocates who wanted Nightwave system. You reap what you sow.

 

I still prefer old alerts. That said I also have all the nightwave cosmetics cos I don't believe boycotting a gameplay system to protest it or whatever, will benefit me in any way, as you can clearly see DE is still sticking with nightwave despite people raising concerns about it repeatedly.

Edited by Xepthrichros
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5 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

So I don't know what you are arguing for. No one is missing out a lot by missing dailies.

(earlier, recently, in this thread, someone suggested making all Nightwave acts into dailies, rather than having weeklies at all, which is likely what that was replying to.)

5 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

I still prefer old alerts.

Same here. Although, I'd fix its deficiencies by increasing the time "good alerts" are available once they become active. (so, 24hrs for the random helmets, blueprints, catalysts, reactors, etc - still longer 48hrs or more for the Gifts of the Lotus) They could make Nitain alerts remain active 6hrs at a time, 4 times a day (or 3, 8hrs each, which might allow most people to get all 3 each day, even if they sleep & work - unless the 8hrs for 1 nitain starts exactly when they start a day of work, and ends when they get off work... but, better for most!)... so you're guaranteed at least 1 will be active at any given time of day... do one before work, one after work, possibly be online for the activation of another Nitain and get a 3rd. That sort of thing.

I'd reduce the number of "filler" alerts, but increase their payouts (larger credit bundles, larger stacks of resources), since they seemed to think having too many alerts was becoming "cluttered" or something (having more optional things to do, when placed on the orbiter's viewscreen was bad, but Nightwave acts cluttering it are good? Not seeing it personally - just take them all off the viewscreen, or let us choose what's on the default viewscreen - maybe I want fissures instead.)

I've posted before on other changes I'd make, but those alone, would fix a majority of the issues people have with Alerts.

(it FEELS like Nightwave wasn't introduced to make it any easier for people "with lives" to progressively work toward the old Alert rewards on their own timetables... it was to slow everybody down, and limit how many rewards from the alert table everyone could get, especially those who could play all day. This is because some of the design elements of Nightwave directly contradict their stated design goals, and they show no sign of caring about that - so the stated design goals are false, or they aren't making needed changes.)

 

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https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1101014-nightwave-intermission/ shows the following:

On 2019-06-07 at 10:02 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Playing Catch-Up: Stored, Missed Acts!
When both Weekly and Elite Weekly Acts are completed for a week, a ‘missed’ Act, 3 at a time, from a previous week will be available to play and complete. Once you have completed all ‘missed’ Acts, they will no longer appear, only to be refreshed in the next week’s rotation.

On July 5, 2019, the game says it will refresh in a few hours. WRONG, Nightwave disappeared. Catch-up does not work for missing the final week or day of challenges.

For players that could not reach max rank in time, really needs some way to catch up and complete a missed previous Nightwave. There are already some players now complaining of this missing Nightwave, can't catch up.

For some players, reached max rank on Nightwave intermission early, and then it gives nothing more. Nothing after rank 15, making the challenges useless with no rewards. For this reason, there are no harm for just keeping the Nightwave intermission up forever for players to catch up, until the new season starts.

 

Between season 1 and "intermission" there was long period of no Nightwave, and only a minimal amount of alerts. Now we are back to no Nightwave again, and I am not seeing much of any alerts either.

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Nightwave, the warframe battle pass, is a good idea. I like that it brings some options for ME to decide where and how I complete said objective. If i were to suggest improvements to what you have, I would suggest a timer in the cred offerings until it rotates. As of right now I would give your Nightwave a 7.5/10 on yelp, with room for improvement as it seems to be on the up n up.

-McGrynn

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I'll just ignore the fact Season 2 starts with :

- 0/12 Disruption

- 3 Formas

- Index

- Gild one item

Seems like one "nope" week

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Why do we keep getting the "Gild a Modular"/"Use 3 Forma" stuff in nightwave. If I have everything maxed out, why should I continue to gild these items, where I already have the ones I want in my inventory. Also, the three forma is really demanding of the longtime veteran users.

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