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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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You are given a week to finish these challenges, why the rush? This week’s challenges can be finished under 1 hour if you’re really rushing it. If you’re feeling it’s tedious do it 1 at a time.

 

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2 hours ago, Tellakey said:

Come on, DE, 9 Invasions? 10 Nightmare missions? You told us less is more but this is just as awful as last season. 

Pleasure reduce the number for these challenges. Thank you.

Please tell me:
How is asking to do 9 invasions "awful"?

And please tell me how many you would need for an "elite" weekly?  1 invasion for 7K standing?
Or do you just want it for signing in for the day?

DE has reduced the actually annoying challenges, the 60 minute survivals, the 5 sorties, and so on.

But come on.
They are asking you to do 9 invasions or 10 nightmares.
That isn't a lot.
Its not like that challenge will take hours to do or o is some monstrously tedious piece of work.

If DE kept listening to players like you every last nightwave would just be:
Sign into the game for 4.5K standing
Play one capture mission for 7K standing
And so on.

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9 invasions = 9 Phorids. Easy

10 Nightmare is pretty annoying though.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

The 9 invasions one is easy. Just do Phorid, it usually takes 1 minute per mission. 

only if the phoroid loads in fast enough....  had to wait nearly a minute for it to load on one of my runs.

 

I do kind of agree with the OP on the feelings for this weeks nightwave.  While none of it exactly hard, not a lot of it overlaps to so it ends up taking more time. 

5 different bounties on PoE... would have been better for it to be on OV due to profit taker mission so we had overlap..

if we're lucky nightmare missions will allow the spy/mobile defence etc to overlap and while I have no real issue with nightmare missions it has the same issue as me doing invasions and several other things in nightwave.... I have no need to actually do them, I have everything they drop etc.

 

A lot of the issues stem from the fact that for 'higher level' players there is nothing in nightwave that we really 'need' until we get to the higher tier rewards where things like the armor and umbra forma sit.   Combined with the fact that we can ONLY get standing by doing the missions at the moment means we're basically being forced to do things we have no reason to do which then makes it feel like a chore rather than a 'fun pastime' . 

Edited by LSG501
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vor 3 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Hikuro-93:

In all honesty, while not minding nightwave as is, I really would rather if it was like you mention. Better as a complement to our regular play than a system that forcibly tries to make the player play long forgotten or niche content. 

Fully support this.. 

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1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

If DE kept listening to players like you every last nightwave would just be:
Sign into the game for 4.5K standing
Play one capture mission for 7K standing

Talk in Chat.

And then we will have 20 threads/day about being chat suspended :crylaugh:

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I get it that for completing Nightwave u gotta do some boring challenges, for ex. 9 invasions. How u do it depends on yourself, u can do them all at once (Porid method?) or go easy and do a few every day.

However, missions like "Kill the profit taker" are completely oblivious for new players (like me) who is still grindind Fortuna rep. I cant get 95k rep points in 6 days no matter what. If only we got free from the Daily Cap during these days, I would be willing to do it despite being boring. But, because Im new to the game and havent got enough time to do bounties, Im fated to lose 7k points. Just a newbie opinion btw.

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I don't mind the invasions. Nine is pretty standard. I'll spread it out over a few days. Three at a shot until done. 

Ten NM missions seems a bit excessive, but I'll simply do the same thing: three a day until done. The only complicating factor is I won't do energy drain missions. Life is too short for that nonsense. I'll log out and go play something else before I do any mission with energy drain as a mutator. 

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That sound easy af, sadly i wont be able to afford my internet bills for 3 months, and i liked every single reward from this nightwave, i hope the next one is easy and good like this season

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4 hours ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

*Sigh*

Some people will never be happy no matter how easy you make things. >_>

Expecting to satisfy the entire player base in any game is a joke in itself. The only thing a company can do is make sure things mesh better, so pretty much all the players except trolls in general have next to no room to complain on the content itself. Its certainly better then it was before, but it would be nice if it gets tighten more as each nightwave goes by, having more work towards these missions leaning to general things that people will do normally, with as little involvement as possible in frustrating content.

...Though if i had to give a good example on one change they could do, they could tidy up older missions like silver grove, to simplify the materials needed for apothics, since not everyone enjoys farming plants for apothics.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, tzadquiel said:

you're literally comparing getting nightwave rewards to battling depression? this is new low amongst you, NW-whiners. 

take this cake.

And you purposefully misconstruing their words despite them making it abundantly clear that depression is a significantly worse problem is really bottom barrel.

My apologies for getting angry there, but people abusing an illness (that I am all too familiar with) for their own gain angers me.

Edited by marelooke
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6 hours ago, tzadquiel said:

you're literally comparing getting nightwave rewards to battling depression? this is new low amongst you, NW-whiners. 

take this cake.

A psychological assault is exactly like a mental illness, it functions along the same principles (think the difference between a mine cart and a bullet train though). Using psychological warfare for profit is despicable, and it's why so many AAA companies are so hated in the majority of gaming circles. Warframe was different. Was.

 

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Posted (edited)

These are tedious because:

1 - I do not need to do these invasions, syndicate missions, nightmare missions, Silver Grove mods, etc... Already have all the rewards these give.

2 - Even if I find the "fastest, most optimal way" to clear these chores, the fact remains that these are obligatory chores that waste a decent amount of time each week doing, time I could be spending playing game modes I enjoy and make my account progress.

3 - I'm pretty sure the consensus in regards to nightwave season 1 stated that people wanted to be able to choose which chores they wanted to do, yet we're still getting a list of universal obligatory chores each week , with only a few having been made slightly less tedious. Still had to Gild yet another mote amp, and I still waste half my weekly playtime doing menial tasks I don't enjoy, like mining gems I don't need, fishing for fishes I don't want, complete invasions when I have 30+ fieldrons and other materials stockpiled. Just give us the ability to pick our 7 weekly chores already out of a huge list of potential chores, so we can do content we enjoy.

Edited by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra
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1 hour ago, marelooke said:

And you purposefully misconstruing their words despite them making it abundantly clear that depression is a significantly worse problem is really bottom barrel.

My apologies for getting angry there, but people abusing an illness (that I am all too familiar with) for their own gain angers me.

If someone experiences irrational fears of missing out to a crippling degree in a video game due to a 10 week rewards series, the proper place is not the forums, but a therapist.

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4 hours ago, Sloan441 said:

I don't mind the invasions. Nine is pretty standard. I'll spread it out over a few days. Three at a shot until done. 

Ten NM missions seems a bit excessive, but I'll simply do the same thing: three a day until done. The only complicating factor is I won't do energy drain missions. Life is too short for that nonsense. I'll log out and go play something else before I do any mission with energy drain as a mutator. 

If you happen to have Hildryn, then problem solved for energy drain missions.

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9 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

It's NOT self imposed, its involuntary, and it's NOT a good thing. that's why so many people hate nightwave so much. If we LIKED it we wouldn't all be *@##$ing about it.

Asking that is like asking someone with depression "why don't you just not be sad?" or asking someone with insomnia "why don't you just sleep?". It dosn't work like that. You can't just cure someone of a mental block by stating its not good to have it. Obviously those are significantly worse problems than this but the analogy works. We can't just slip a switch and not feel this way.

It's something that we don't have to do, that we choose to do. That means that it's voluntary. Especially when you realise that we don't need to do every challenge to get to rank 30 and claim all of the rewards. So we can choose to skip it without repercussions. 

It's like I don't have to respond to the ridiculous comparison to a mental health disorder in your second paragraph, so after looking at it, I said to myself "yeah that's not worth the effort, so I'm not going to bother."

9 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Not really. It's more like not buying a game at launch because you know its gonna get a bunch of dlc, and then re-release later for the same price with all the dlc bundled with it (like many mainline bethesda games). so you wait for that dlc bundle so you get more for your money. It's about knowing that later you'll be able to spend the same amount of resources for a bigger gain if you just wait, and if you don't, you'll have to spend more to get that gain, or just not get it at all.

So you figure that people can't or won't buy it while it's new, wait some undefined period in the hopes that they may eventually buy it with DLC that may or may not be released? 

Yeah the poster can forsake their pleasure for the possibility of points later on, but remember, they claimed that they aren't worried about making it to 30. So there's no huge loss if they miss a few prestige ranks. 

7 hours ago, tzadquiel said:

you're literally comparing getting nightwave rewards to battling depression? this is new low amongst you, NW-whiners. 

take this cake.

I know, right? 

 

2 hours ago, marelooke said:

And you purposefully misconstruing their words despite them making it abundantly clear that depression is a significantly worse problem is really bottom barrel.

My apologies for getting angry there, but people abusing an illness (that I am all too familiar with) for their own gain angers me.

Yeah? But you're going after the person who wasn't trying to use it for their own gain. If we all know that it's a ridiculous comparison, then nobody should have tried to shoehorn it into the conversation. 

But hey, who's counting, right? 

1 hour ago, Iamabearlulz said:

A psychological assault is exactly like a mental illness, it functions along the same principles (think the difference between a mine cart and a bullet train though). Using psychological warfare for profit is despicable, and it's why so many AAA companies are so hated in the majority of gaming circles. Warframe was different. Was.

 

You know that we don't have to do the challenges, right? We're not being forced to do any of them, and we certainly can skip many of them and still get all of the rewards. 

It's ridiculous to claim that giving you a game mode that is offering reward, that you can opt to just not do, is "psychological warfare". You should feel bad about doing that, and not do that in the future. 

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All this debate about FOMO (fear of missing out) misses a point that should be fairly obvious. Whether the FOMO is rational or not, Nightwave is designed specifically to exploit FOMO. The entire basis of the system is limited-time tasks for limited time rewards. The alerts were different, in that if you didn't catch an item once, you knew it would pop up again. Many other events are similar, such as Fomorians and Buried Debts; they might be limited-time but they continue to recur. To my knowledge, the only times DE has addressed this concern were when they announced that the Wolf would get a summon beacon and when they clarified that the Eidolon Ephemera from the Intermission would be available again in the future. Other than that, the foundation of Nightwave is FOMO, because the assumption is that, for example, if you don't complete Season 2 and get the infested operator suit or whatever, then you never will have the chance to get it ever again.

Anyone remember how much plat the Wolf's hammer was going for when it first appeared (https://warframe.market/items/wolf_sledge_set/statistics, and check out the 90-day price chart)? That's a measure of the effect of FOMO. As soon as it became clear that the Wolf would be around for a bit, prices evened out.

In addition, these aren't one-weekend events. Nightwave requires at least a couple of logins a week sustained over a 10- to 12- week period, just to view all the challenges and decide what you'll do (based on daily challenges being available for a few days after appearing). Incidentally, that extended time commitment is probably the most compelling argument for keeping the challenges generally easy and accessible.

Side note: We can talk about how a video game shouldn't be so important to people or whatever. However, if the takeaway from the Nightwave discussion is that the game should be less important to players, then that means that Nightwave is backfiring for DE, because it's pretty obvious that it's intended to keep players engaged.

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Posted (edited)

It is a very simple equation in my book:

Wait and spend 3 forma only when it's a Nightwave Act, and get rewarded...
(delaying the benefits of the forma'd gear that you want to use right now, but have other viable options to use in the meantime, so no rush really.)
or
Spend 3 forma when it's not rewarded by Nightwave? Thus, getting no benefit from the use of Forma except the reduced slot cost.

One option is worthwhile (especially knowing that this particular act showed up multiple times in the last series), the other is a waste. I did waste some forma on a Rubico Prime in the off-season when it wasn't rewarded, because my friend wanted to go hunt Eidolons ASAP, and I wanted at least one Eidolon-ready weapon. It still felt wasteful and bad. I only got to use it 4 times since then, because my friend's schedule and my own have rarely matched up. (and I really don't like using Snipers, thus why I never had a forma'd sniper...)

When starting my own solo clan, all of my forma went to building the clan hall and all of its features. It wasn't for a very very very long time, that I had extra forma left over to use on weapons and frames, and crafting recipes from the dojo that need formas too.

Due to the long build times, and demand for strategic usage of a limited resource, this is a particularly bad "act" because it encourages stockpiling of resources and waiting to use them, and not using them when we want to, when we might have the most time to play and re-level those newly forma'd pieces of gear that we may use on a regular basis - otherwise just wasting the forma on gear that is sitting in our inventories that we already have at rank 30, just to spend the forma and get the "act" over with for the points, as having those unused items back at unranked won't bother the rest of our playtime.

If you already have Forma stacking up, and weapons at max rank collecting dust, and can spare to throw them in a blender and forget about them, or have plenty of time to re-level gear (instead of accomplishing any other goals you may have in your potentially limited play time), then good for you. It's tailor made to work in those situations.

 

I don't see how this is a controversial complaint.

 

PS: The fact that it CAN be skipped and still get the ladder rewards, IF you can make up for the lost points from other acts (which is clearly not a universal thing as many people, including my friend, missed out on the last few ladder rank rewards in season 1) does NOT mean we can sit idly by and say "oh yeah, it's perfectly fine for garbage acts to exist, because we can just skip them." The more of these bad acts that exist, the more that we're inclined to skip - so rather than encouraging us to play, they encourage us to skip.

Edited by (PS4)AyinDygra
added the PS
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1 minute ago, Kenobi_000001 said:

All this debate about FOMO (fear of missing out) misses a point that should be fairly obvious. Whether the FOMO is rational or not, Nightwave is designed specifically to exploit FOMO. The entire basis of the system is limited-time tasks for limited time rewards. The alerts were different, in that if you didn't catch an item once, you knew it would pop up again. Many other events are similar, such as Fomorians and Buried Debts; they might be limited-time but they continue to recur. To my knowledge, the only times DE has addressed this concern were when they announced that the Wolf would get a summon beacon and when they clarified that the Eidolon Ephemera from the Intermission would be available again in the future. Other than that, the foundation of Nightwave is FOMO, because the assumption is that, for example, if you don't complete Season 2 and get the infested operator suit or whatever, then you never will have the chance to get it ever again.

Only one of the gameplay-relevant items in the Nightwave rewards is in any way time limited (special forma for the five special mods), and it's recurring.

Also, wild thought but hear me out:  maybe Nightwave was in response to alerts having lost most purpose and mostly being "wake up at 1am for that thing you want," a general desire for more lore and events repeatedly expressed by the community, and just as a new thing that the team thought would be cool. 

Wait, that can't be right.  Steve obviously put on his evil villain hat and wanted to exploit people who think that unless they finish Nightwave 4 weeks early, by putting in the full three hours (max) per week to complete all challenges, they'll never complete the season.  The dev team looked in their crystal ball, saw the people with more time for forum complaints than in-game missions, and went "we can totally squeeze more playtime hours out of them by terrifying them with the prospect of not being able to make their operator look like a walking corpse, unless they finish the season as soon as physically possible."

Give me a break.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Only one of the gameplay-relevant items in the Nightwave rewards is in any way time limited (special forma for the five special mods), and it's recurring.

Also, wild thought but hear me out:  maybe Nightwave was in response to alerts having lost most purpose and mostly being "wake up at 1am for that thing you want," a general desire for more lore and events repeatedly expressed by the community, and just as a new thing that the team thought would be cool. 

Wait, that can't be right.  Steve obviously put on his evil villain hat and wanted to exploit people who think that unless they finish Nightwave 4 weeks early, by putting in the full three hours (max) per week to complete all challenges, they'll never complete the season.  The dev team looked in their crystal ball, saw the people with more time for forum complaints than in-game missions, and went "we can totally squeeze more playtime hours out of them by terrifying them with the prospect of not being able to make their operator look like a walking corpse, unless they finish the season as soon as physically possible."

Give me a break.

Well, there are weapon-specific mods too. So far those haven't returned. With other things, it's just been unclear, like with the Wolf's hammer, so there was FOMO at the beginning at least.

Okay, hang on. I'm not alleging an evil conspiracy; maybe the term FOMO has too much baggage to use objectively right now. My point was that it's pretty obvious that Nightwave is designed to keep players returning on at least a weekly basis for the duration of a season, by offering exclusive content that wouldn't be available outside of that season. I'm not talking psychological ramifications or whatever, I'm just pointing out that it's a limited-time event with exclusive rewards, so there's naturally incentive to participate within the given window.

On top of that, the end times of seasons have at times been up in the air (such as right now with season 2), which contributes to players' feeling that they should complete every week along the way in order to get to the rewards they want. If we knew how long the seasons went for sure, we as players could decide strategically when to participate, but we're not given that information until later on in the season.

Edited by Kenobi_000001
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On the topic of FOMO, during the Devstream where it was introduced, they explained quite explicitly that the expiration of creds and limited time nature of the event was to discourage the trend of players consuming all new content in a week, and leaving until the next content drop. Instead, now, if you don't want to miss out on these ladder rewards, you have to play every week, on their schedule.

So yeah, it kinda was built on "FOMO" , even if it isn't intentionally evil, per se. It's just all the collateral damage it causes.

 

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Posted (edited)

Right, forgot about the augments.  Most are meh, but fair point.

10 minutes ago, Kenobi_000001 said:

My point was that it's pretty obvious that Nightwave is designed to keep players returning on at least a weekly basis for the duration of a season, by offering exclusive content that wouldn't be available outside of that season.

Right.  And that's way more reasonable both as a description, and as a reason to do it.  Realistically, there's a high chance that the mods come round again in a later season, and most exclusive stuff is entirely cosmetic.  If you're playing, it's a little something to do (albeit gutted following S1 complaints) that rewards you for taking part in the event.  If you're not playing at the time, it's all good!  Biggest thing you missed is the ability to look disgusting with this particular infested stuff, and even that is likely to eventually return.  Additionally, this is not new for DE.  We've had 14 limited events over the course of the game's life so far.

What I will not do is blame DE for adult players (I assume, game's M rated) who self implode and cannot psychologically function when presented with a ten week timeframe.  Those individuals' problems are not DE's fault.

Edited by (PS4)BenHeisennberg
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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

What I will not do is blame DE for adult players (I assume, game's M rated) who self implode and cannot psychologically function when presented with a ten week timeframe.  Those individuals' problems are not DE's fault.

That's fair too. Overall the whole "debate" here is really getting out of hand and obscuring good points on both sides.

Edited by Kenobi_000001
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1 hour ago, Caine2112 said:

If you happen to have Hildryn, then problem solved for energy drain missions.

It's not so much a problem as it is a damned nuisance. 

I can run a triple umbral Valkyr and her EH is such the enemies can barely scratch her--and if they can, she simply gains energy she can use for Warcry, which ratchets up the armor even more. Or there's Garuda who can produce energy on demand to do whatever and then promptly regen the expended health. 

It's the cheesy nature of it that excludes 'frames that do rely heavily on energy to do much of anything. This moves the bar into the territory of being distinctly unfun. Sure, it's an excuse to run Valky or Garuda or some other that isn't particularly vulnerable to the drain, but I don't like the circumstances--and it's probably partly in reaction to when it was more of a problem when we had less of everything. 

Bottom line is it gets on that last nerve and I'd rather not do it regardless of circumstances. 

 

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Just wanted to come back and mention a few things.

I'm really enjoying this season. Not as much into the story (yet), but I like the slightly different challenges.

 -The nightmare one is great for me, because I don’t usually touch them. I get to go back, carry some newbies and in turn they also get it done + new mods. It’s nice.

-Invasions are ehh.. but again, I get to do invasions and get remarked. Works for me because I looove being hunted (no sarcasm) and again, I also get resources I’m otherwise never going to build (don’t build fieldron and stuff when I should).

-Not crazy over the plant scanning once again, but because of going out of my way to search for plants, I’ve found more rare caches/Ayatan statues.

 It seems chill this time around, and I don’t feel worried about missing out, even with a busy schedule. 

Also wanted to add in that I think the glitch where you lose your NW challenge progress is fixed! Haven’t had it happen since the hotfix before so I’m super happy lol.

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