Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[SHADOW.XIII]

Generally I see Acts as a good idea to direct players towards parts of the game no longer in use, levels, warframes, weapons, you could even have an Act to do a quest (if it's repeatable), opens interesting paths. But that said, in current state the acts have some annoying parts. I've decided to put all stuff here:

 

1. Acts conditions

Why not do Acts with multiple conditions, like: "do 60 minutes survival in one go or 120/180 minutes total", players who want challenge - got it, players who do not want challenge or are learning or can't do challenge - got it. I am rather veteran player but I like to play for fun (and still gain the items), rather than a chore (and had to do Kuva Survival twice - certainly NOT nice doing it for 2h)
Would be even better if rewards (not Nightwave points but resources, credits, focus, etc) finally scale better with time ... one day maybe
 

2. Wolfcreds

I think Nightwave levels should NOT give Wolfcreds rewards (or whatever it will be called) - those should be given AUTOMATICALLY with each level (ie. 20 per level), this way any progress will reward players with possibly purchases, not just every 4 or so levels. And you open yourself to put something extra there as well
 

3. Acts completion required

For a system that was supposed to replace alert to require less player attention, it doesn't do the justice. I do so far average 4 ranks per week, on 10-week length I am required to do 3 ranks per week to complete the events, while it doesn't put pressure to play alerts as they come, it puts pressure to play to complete acts, some of them rather difficult, especially to new players (ie. new Switch players might not be strong enough to pass through them so easily). This looks like 75% of all acts are required to complete (considering points - missing any elite one hurts more).

4. Episode specific items

All the Wolf of the Saturn 6 items - what happens to them, I can understand cosmetics to be exclusive, but what about mods or weapons. Those should NOT be exclusive (I think you repeated so many times in the past "no" to exclusive weapons), does it mean it will come back as episode-2-WolfCred purchase or elsewhere?


 

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by SHADOW.XIII
more ideas

[BethTheBean]

On 2019-03-04 at 4:47 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Hey Tenno,

Nightwave is here in all of it’s Nora Night-backed glory, and there has been a lot of back and forth (both on the forums and internally) about the challenges and how to accrue Nightwave standing. Series 1 of Nightwave is our first attempt at this addition to Warframe, and we want to thank you all for sharing your thoughts and requests. We will be using this thread to gather feedback from everyone on all Platforms! 

So at first pass, we are seeing some concerns rise to the top:

• Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.
• Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.
• Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

For some of these Elite challenges, we were attempting to speak to the endurance runners, but it seems we may have missed the mark - if you liked it, or didn't like it, comment below. In the end, we wanted to make a series of challenges that spoke to every type of player, but we do not want to do so at the cost of enjoyment overall.

Nightwave is still new to the community and we are expecting to see more feedback come as the series progresses - you've only seen a % of all Acts, so as Series 1 progresses we need your feedback on the appearing Acts. We've seen players responding with some possible solutions that would make these challenges more piecemeal, balance the resources needed to complete some challenges, and assess social requirements to get your goodies.

We will be applying what we have learned to Nightwave Series 2 - but can only improve with constructive, detailed posts about what you like / didn't like about acts. Knowing what you like is just as important as what you don't like. 
 

1. Ayatan challenges are ok, just the number needs to be adjusted. Maroo and a sortie are guaranteed, but other mission types are a crapshoot. They spawn in the same generated spots as fragments/chords/medallions, so syndicate missions give you a higher (not better) chance.

2. Survival challenges can easily be split between dailies and weeklies. Say, a 20 - 30 min for a daily with a 60 min for a weekly.

3. The friend/clanmate challenges can be split between daily solos, and friend/clanmate weekly.

4. We need more dailies, than one per a 24 hr period. If you're someone who can't do most of the weeklies, then you're stuck grinding out those RNG fugitives. Say, 3 dailies every 24 hrs with at least 5 weeklies. 

I'm just asking DE to think of the new players, that probably take up about 90% of the player base. The challenges should be set at a difficulty of at least MR5, as a player needs that rank to complete most of the main story.

Best regards. 
 

[Ravengm]

Overall there are a few thoughts that I have regarding Nightwave so far:

Positive

• The sort-of-episodic nature of it being a radio program is pretty cool. Nora's a good character and has a great voice actor.
• Daily challenges tend to be entertaining ways of playing the game (spray glyphs, kill enemies with a particular type of damage, etc.). Some of the challenges are fun to complete and push me to use gear/methods I otherwise wouldn't.
• Being able to work towards progress of a goal is a better feeling than the Alerts system when you could lose out on something you want because you're sleeping or working.

Negative (and some suggestions on what might work better)

• Lots grindier than the Alerts system. Previously, I just had to run a quick 10-minutes-or-less mission to get whatever the thing was I wanted. Now I have to continuously complete achievements over several days (if not weeks) to achieve the same result.
  • Suggestion: have some flexibility on reward tiers. If I want, for instance, the Umbral forma and new mods and don't care about any of the cosmetic items, let me choose that somehow. My initial thought is on separate "reward tracks" that you select and fill out instead of one long tier list; maybe there's 3 and each one is 10 tiers and has rewards of a particular type. That way there's less irrelevant reward tiers to slog through before you get to what you want, and if you want everything you still have the same amount to get through.
  • Suggestion: cut down on challenges that require a huge timesink in one sitting. A single 60 minute survival mission is really unpalatable. 60 minutes total of survival isn't so bad.
• Wolf Creds are way too hard to get, and it's hard to tell what to spend them on because the rewards rotate to an unknown new set.
  • Suggestion: award Wolf Creds (or whatever the new version is for the next Series) for every challenge completed instead of as tier rewards.
  • Suggestion: list which Cred Offerings are available during the Series. If the items in the next rotation aren't anything I want, I'm going to be really frustrated I didn't spend them during the previous weekly offerings.
• Relies on outside assistance for some challenges. Challenges that involve playing with friends/clanmates are really just a disappointment for a lot of people that play pretty strictly through matchmaking.
  • Suggestion: don't require playing with just people on your friends list. Even something like "complete X mission in a squad of 4" still promotes team gameplay but doesn't require the player to explicitly have friends they play with.
  • Suggestion: don't have challenges that rely on players not doing something that's part of the core gameplay. "Complete a survival mission without activating life support" is a challenge that you either do solo or with trusted friends, because it's way too easy for people in a PUG to mess it up (intentionally or not).
• Dailies/Weeklies/Monthlies are one of the primary reasons I burned out on other games, and this system looks like it's apt to do the same thing.
  • I'm honestly not sure on a suggestion for this one. There isn't really a good solution other than trivializing the time investment (e.g. daily logins) or removing the time-limited aspect (e.g. missions), and both of those are pretty drastic changes to the system that I'm willing to bet aren't really an option.

General things not already covered

• Focus on challenges that change how you play missions rather than what missions you play. There's already enough content that's demanding our time and attention, so forcing us into something we wouldn't do otherwise for a significant amount of time is more frustrating than anything else.
  • If the challenge requires a specific type of mission (ex. Plains bounties), make the requirement low. 10 syndicate missions is too many, because that's a long time spent doing content that I wouldn't normally spend that much time doing. If I don't need anything in particular from Plains bounties, then doing 8 of them is just a waste of time that could be spend on something I actually want to do instead. Missions like "Capture a Hydrolyst" I'm okay with because it doesn't require you to repeat the same thing over and over again.
  • Add in more challenges that are simply alterations to how you play the missions you're already running. "Kill X enemies with Heat damage" or "Kill X enemies while sliding" were both ways I could modify my loadout and playstyle during missions I would have done anyway. I still had to go out of my way to fulfill the needs of the challenge, but I wasn't forced into content I didn't want to do during my limited playing time.
• One of the main demographics this system seemed intended to help out is newbies, but I feel like that goal got missed. I'm definitely not new myself, but the sentiment I've heard from some people is that a decent chunk of missions just aren't possible.
  • One of the ways of helping reduce this could be as per one of the suggestions above: decoupling Wolf Creds from tier rewards. That way the items that are needed for lower-level players (Nitain, Aura Mods, etc.) don't rely on completion of Elite challenges nearly so much.

tl;dr I guess

• Put Wolf Creds as rewards from Challenges rather than tiers
• Reduce the slog to get to a specific tier reward
• Don't force players to do things they don't want to do (instead, focus on changing how they complete things they want to do)

[Cuchullin]

From my own point of view on the hour long survivals I don't actually object to having them there it's the requirement for having a friend or clan member  as part of the squad. I'd be more then willing to do it if it was the usual public group. True the only problem with it is the potential for trolling or accidental activation of the air towers but I believe it was said that they might be removed which could fix that. Beyond that having two separate hour long survivals in the same elite weekly might be a bit much to ask for casual players, by all means keep them in nightwave but I would imagine having comparable options for the casual players while having the hour long missions for endurance runners would be appreciated by both camps. Perhaps having an endurance style mission that has several mission modes in the one mission could be interesting.

For example having it start out as a survival mission and while that is going on rotate through a few of the other mission types during the survival (tile dependent cause excavation on a ship in space doesn't sound too smart) and the more of those you complete the higher standing you get once you extract successfully kinda like the random missions that show up on the plains of eidolan. While it can end up like elite sanctuary onslaughts for focus farming I think it can allow people catch up on lost opportunities especially if this type of mission shows up in the last week of the act or something.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Cuchullin

[Ravengm]

38 minutes ago, LeaserResael said:

I think most of the issues would be resolved if you made each week's challenges stay active for as long as the season lasts. So anyone can start and complete them even if they joined mid-season. The problem with the 60 minutes ones would be mostly solved if you had up to 10 weeks instead of just one week.

Basically like most battle passes where each week has new challenges added but the previous ones remain active too.

This would help alleviate a lot of the stress time-limited events cause.

[djtotato]

first, just want to remind [de] that switch is not a strong console

any endurance act on switch is quite risky...

now for the feedback,

7 daily x 1000 = 7000; 7 weekly x 3000 = 21000; 3 elite x 5000 = 15000

which means: daily 16.3%; weekly 48.8%; elite 34.9%. in order to reach rank 30, these numbers need to be balanced. 34.9% makes elite a mandatory. plus, current system basically requires 7 wks grind to get the highest tier reward in a 10 wks windows. meaning if ur 3 wks late, see ya next season.

remember this is the replacement for alert, a fair reward system available for all, which nightwave definitely not.

how to fix:

elite has to adjust down to below 15% in points (i wouldn't mind if elite rewards 1000pts; it should be tough but fun things for vets to maximum their pts gain. not sth if new players miss they are gonna be difficult to rank up)

each season/episode/series needs to be on its own timeframe. meaning each player picks and accepts a season/episode/series, then they have 10 wks to finish it

Edited March 6, 2019 by djtotato

[VerumVenari]

I have liked the Friend/Clan requirement -- it has encouraged me to participate more in my big and mostly anonymous clan, which has been fairly positive so far.

I personally enjoyed the 1-hr survivals, and would have enjoyed the Tridolon requirement as well if my comp could handle the plains. Some people found it boring, but it can be hard to find teeth-grinding tension in Warframe, and a big challenge like that was cool. I think missions that are difficult -- "Do you have the know-how and skill (and gear) to pull this offer?" -- rather than taxing -- "Do you have the time for this?" -- would be good for elites. The big 1-hr Kuva was both, but there are some Riven challenges that are, for example, difficult on their own, but only become taxing if someone is not good at them (e.g. "Get 10 headshot kills while gliding/latching without touching the ground or setting off alarms"). Like, maybe have a "Ghost Sabotage" weekly: "Complete 2 Sabotage missions without setting off alarms in which the player successfully extracts 2 coolant cells." Some folks don't like Spy, but that's also a good mission template for interesting stuff. Maybe "Complete an Extermination mission with only head shots." Or "Lava!: Complete a mission spending no more than 5 seconds total with your feet on a surface (wall latching doesn't count)." Those shouldn't be that taxing -- skilled players could finish them relatively quickly -- but I think they would be fun and interesting.

Generally, I think that when Nightwave encourages players to engage with lesser-attended game modes, it's good. This is also kind of a meta point: it has been neat to see the player base collectively reflect on parts of the game at the same time. Tridolons? Lots of people talked about those for a week, especially people who had never done them before; I didn't get the chance, but would have loved to do a newbie Tidolon hunt, where me and three other totally fresh-to-it players try to finish a Tricap in one night, almost like it was new content. 1-hour survival? Really seems like people don't like that, but everyone talked about it. That 5-Ayatan weekly? Glad it's getting changed, but suddenly everyone starts wondering about the best ways to get statues, or how to handle arbitration missions. It was fun for me to watch the communal knowledge start pouring out and discussed as these mission types became group foci. 

[Im_a_fat_boy2]

Just wanna add, I do enjoy the new content that nightwave brings but what I really dislike is that the content are time limited 

i used to be able to login and do whatever content I feel like doing, which I enjoy doing

Now, it feels like a chore to login, feels like my game is revolved around nightwave, forced to do the content because it’s time gated and I might miss out on the rewards if I don’t do so.

I really missed the old alert systems, it’s rng but at least I’m not compelled to do it.

If these do not change, then It’s just a matter of when before I lose interest in your game

Not fun anymore

In short, forcing players to grind content for time gated rewards is a bad move.

and please bring back the old alerts, both systems can coexist 

we want the freedom to play whatever content we want and not worried of losing out possible time gated rewards!!!

[DeathshotSE]

I'm completely fine with the current system, but here are some suggestions to appease some player's complaining about challenges. This is an attempt to maintain the "difficulty" and "challenge" while giving those that can't complete everything a little more than the current system.

1. Partial Credit - Divide some acts into 4 segments where the reputation earned is divided among the segments. For example, the 60 minute survival act gives 5000 rep when complete. Divide it into 4 segments, so achieving 15/30/45/60 minute survival will give 1250/1250/1250/1250 rep. If you can only achieve 30 minutes, you get 2500 rep. If you improve from 30 minutes to 45 minutes, you get 1250 rep because you already earned 2500 rep for 30 minutes before.
2. Wolf Cred every tier - Every tier gives you some Wolf Cred. WoS6 gives 6x 50 Wolf Cred bundle for a total of 300 for completing 24/30 tiers. Change it so every tier gives you the current reward and 5 Wolf Cred. Then reduce all 50 Wolf Cred bundle down to 25 so you will still get 300 after 30 tiers. If players are going for the Cred Offerings, this makes every tier count and gives Wolf Cred sooner for players that really want an Aura or Nitain.
3. Cred Offering filler - Minimum Cred Offering is 15 Cred for 5x Nitain. There is a possibility at the end of the Nightwave, you have 10 Cred leftover that goes to waste if you didn't pre-plan your purchases. I suggest add an offering that costs 5 Wolf Cred (since all costs are divisible by 5). That way, you can spend your leftovers. An option would be to change 5x Nitain for 15 Wolf Cred to 2x Nitain for 5 Wolf Cred (6x Nitain for 15 Wolf Cred).
4. Failure notification - For specific challenges with failure conditions like the 60 minute survival without using capsule, when running an eligible mission, display a failure notification when you can no longer complete the challenge in your current mission. If you are 32 minutes in and someone uses a capsule, display a notification saying you failed the challenge so you don't have to wait until the end to find out you could not complete it. This should save some time.

Edited March 7, 2019 by DeathshotSE
Reworded for clarification

[(PSN)iuvenilis]

I'm pretty late to the party, on pg17, but what the heck, I'll throw my 2cents in...

Blah-blah background/repeat of what's probably already been said:

I feel like it's pretty well established the Nightwave is currently not in the best state to replace Alerts. I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already looked at how long it would take a newbie/casual player to buy all/some of the offerings... and I have no doubt it will take many "Seasons". Just looking at this week's challeneges, many of them are completely out of reach for a newbie/inexperienced/casual player.

Before someone jumps me with "not everything needs to be accessible to new players", while I do agree, I feel there should be balance, and we're not there yet with Nightwave.

Suggestion:

The easiest adjustment which I see would benefit everyone is to simply increase the number of challenges offered. I think at least double or triple the challenges on offer. To offset this, a reputation cap could be added, though I would prefer not.

It's been mentioned a few times, if you don't regularly participate in these challenges, AND from the start of the season, you will miss out, and it could be enough of a deterrent to sabotage the entire experience.

By adding more challenges, a vet might look at the list and think, "well, I could do this 'hard' elite challenge, or these 2 dailies and 1 non-elite weekly". They can make their own judgement on enjoyment and time restraints, and do what's best for them. A newbie/inexperienced/casual player can make the same judgment based on what they have access to. Both players feel accomplished, and most importantly, they have enjoyed the experience in the way that suits them best.

Side note:

If a rep cap was required, it should be weekly, not daily. Ps. I think all rep caps should be weekly, not daily.

[hbic]

I like being coaxed into activities! Had no interest in ESO or conservation before, but ended up enjoying them after I had some incentive to try 🙂

Edited March 7, 2019 by hbic

[Im_a_fat_boy2]

If they don’t change, they are gonna lose quite some players and these people are often those who buy plats, have a life outside the game, job and family to take care off etc. 

If I’m posted abroad for 1-2 months, am I screwed?? I’m just gonna play other games instead and spend my money elsewhere.

Its probably good for those hardcore players who have a lot of free time. These players are less likely to buy plats cos they grind for everything 

DE, your loss!

you need both group of people for sustainability, the 1st group who feeds you your profit and the 2nd group who keeps the items affordable platinum wise for the 1st group of people

Edited March 7, 2019 by Im_a_fat_boy2

[(PSN)LoneSidekick]

Nightwave is a pain!

I'm a new player and like playing mostly alone, yet I've run into these guys while trying to go through the story missions and they kill me every time!

I keep hearing Nora, apparently when I've completed something that is on her list of things to do, even when I've turned off the radio and in Options turned off Radio Chatter along with Operator Voice and Mute Chat Notifications; sorry to say but I cn't stand listening to her!

When I started to play this game, there were alerts where I could to extra things to gain stuff, but Nora's Nightwave made that go away! Well She is going to make me go away.

I'm here and letting you know that your statement "we are seeing some concerns rise to the top" doesn't  seem to be including a lot of concerns about the comments that I am mentioning.

Please, please bring back the old system. If you don't want to kill this new system, put it in someplace Like Cephelon's or the other Syndicates operations! Don't jam it down my throat! I really am thinking about leaving and not supporting your game.

[(PSN)LoneSidekick]

Nightwave is a pain!

I'm a new player and like playing mostly alone, yet I've run into these guys while trying to go through the story missions and they kill me every time!

I keep hearing Nora, apparently when I've completed something that is on her list of things to do, even when I've turned off the radio and in Options turned off Radio Chatter along with Operator Voice and Mute Chat Notifications; sorry to say but I cn't stand listening to her!

When I started to play this game, there were alerts where I could to extra things to gain stuff, but Nora's Nightwave made that go away! Well She is going to make me go away.

I'm here and letting you know that your statement "we are seeing some concerns rise to the top" doesn't  seem to be including a lot of concerns about the comments that I am mentioning.

Please, please bring back the old system. If you don't want to kill this new system, put it in someplace Like Cephelon's or the other Syndicates operations! Don't jam it down my throat! I really am thinking about leaving and not supporting your game.

[(XBOX)Earl In Black]

So far the challenges have been great. The maligned elite weeklies have been a favorite for me and friends. They've encouraged us to go back and revist content we don't usually grind, as well as to think about our builds and group dynamics. 

The ayatan statue count seemed like a high number but was easily fixed if you thought about where to get them easily. 

Above it all it seems like the numbers break very well, with players being able to complete most of the planed schedule without doing the elites if unable to.

[Larhah]

Wolf Creds (or whatever they're called for future acts) really ought to drop at every level achieved. There's too many things offered that used to be available elsewhere on a regular basis, and too few credits possible in a week compared to the possible alert rewards per week. A new player who wasn't picky about which weapons and cosmetics they picked up first could get multiple weapons or helmets per DAY, and a bunch of them per week was easy. Now they would be restricted to 1 helmet, IF they didn't need anything else. I understand that there may be more credits available when and if we finish all 30 of the current levels, but then we'd be restricted to the cosmetics that are randomly available at those end weeks. It also assumes that we actually get there. I expect to myself, but it would be that much more difficult for the new players who still need all of these rewards. There's time to get there in a later season, sure, but at the same time, you didn't have to wait 10 weeks in the old system just to get a second chance at a helmet you liked.

I realize that certain "evergreen" rewards, like potatoes and nitain, are meant to be more scarce. So upping the cost of those such that you could still only afford so many per week would be fine. As long as the helmets and weapons stayed cheap and easy to acquire. In the course of 10 weeks, I would have expected to be able to pick up most if not all of the helmets through the previous alert system. I feel like the same should still be true with the new system.

Alternately, I wouldn't have a problem with alerts coexisting with the Nightwave system just for the purpose of making the helmets and alert weapons more available. The alerts wouldn't need to include anything other than those cosmetics and maybe the weapons in order to ease the burden the new system places on newbies.

[Zanchak]

On 2019-03-05 at 10:42 AM, Zanchak said:

Survivals/Endless - Anything more than 30 minutes is too much investment in 1 mission when there are so many to do. Newer players still have to find time to do standing -everywhere- as well as nightwave. Not to mention, if you are unwell like I am, 60 minutes unable to move without risk of failing your team is really quite terrible.

I don't even know if anyone in my clan wants to bother with this weeks 60 minute runs, because it's just too much, too boring for too little return. The same reasons we dont do anything longer than 30 minute endless anywhere else.

Friend Challenges - Definitely need these just removed. If you don't want solo players there should never of been an option to play that way. It's too late to take it off us now. 😛

Bosses/Field Bosses and the weapons tied to them - Still never even seen him. Not even once. And apparently there is a weapon tied to him. For someone who has everything and can't even TRY to get a drop this is concerning and somewhat frustrating since I have no idea when, if at all, it will be available to get again.

Wolf Creds - Simply not enough of them. They shouldn't be locked to tiers.

New Player Letdowns - Yes they might of missed alerts at times, but they would eventually get vital things like auras, and they did not have to grind to "pay the game" for them with some kinda new currency. New players shouldnt be paying for auras and nitain - period.

I used to do random aura alerts whenever I saw them so I could GIVE new players auras and so on. Do you think I will be spending the tiny amount of creds I get on freebies for people I don't even know now? Easy answer is no.

Fun Extras

PVP - Please just don't ever even consider adding pvp to these. Just don't lol.

 

Just to update this - still not seen the Wolf even once. Zero. Zip. Nothing. Other people are running around with his weapon already. If you're going to tie weapons in with a time-limited field boss then they need to be accessible the whole time the season runs, not as a random spawn like stalker, who is not time-limited. This is just frustrating at this point.

[Knoxturnal]

On 2019-03-04 at 4:53 PM, Voltage said:

It was nice having something that was more than the usual "Rotation C and restart" structure. I hope more challenges are available to fill the "Elite" role for challenges.

Will there be dedicated missions like Syndicate dailies to be more interesting than capturing hundreds of fugitive groups? This would also be cool to have dedicated spawns for the Wolf through some additional linear grind.

The majority of the playerbase who will participate in this system place challenges like "10 perfect conservation" as "Elite" (I am not trying to be rude, just realistic and observant). Trying to fill everyone's niche is impossible due to the variety of difficulties people play at, and the overwhelming majority of this game's playerbase being highly casual (again, not necessarily bad, just the target audience). If Elite challenges are to be truly elite, we should have way more challenges available so that the casual player can get 30 easily for the Umbral Forma (like they want) and the experienced can reach that same spot efficiently (as they should).

If the challenges are too hard/time consuming for the majority, there will be complaints until its mind-numbingly easy (see: the Profit Taker with Repeller Systems, Vauban Prime crafting costs in 2016, attempts at Hema reduction in 2016/2017, Focus grind since Update 18, Void RNG complaints for years, etc). Trust me, I used to be one of many to complain about grind. I have since learned that proper grind in Warframe is what keeps the game engaging, and although nothing is perfect, less grind will ultimately lead to less gameplay and more content drought.

With this in mind, and from my observations throughout the years, the majority don't want grind and want to be handed the items almost immediately. This is quite clear seeing complaints on the first day of a week long challenge.

It's nice to see an attempt from the development team, and thank you for the transparency [DE]Bear. I (and many others) await more changes to the Nightwave system. I do hope DE goes back to the drawing board and tries again with this "try to cater to everyone here and there" style of challenges.

It's just a shame that the community is quick to denounce any attempt at more gameplay. There is a reason we have long lengths of content drought, and it's because we ask for it.

Exactly this.

[Klokwerkaos]

So I've said this once already, but I'm going to say it again because I'm seeing a lot of people throw tantrums that this would fix.

Bring back alerts for resources only.  

This is good for newer players and also makes nightwave entirely optional rather than something they feel they have to do and also it encourages them to fill out their star chart before they find out about arbitrations.  Also I'm noticing a lot of people aren't aware yet that nitain now drops from reactor sabo, which will make a lot of people less cranky if we spread that info around.

Even if bundle values are cut in half that makes things much easier for newer players.

It helps newer and casual players get what they need and gives them something to do and then they can just stop crying that X challenge is too boring or too hard, which is the constant dribble i'm seeing.

Granted, i can and have completed every challenge effortlessly so far.  I am also not an average player at MR 12.  Expecting players at that level to fill every niche is a bit ridiculous.

If the resources are back, they no longer have any right to complain because nightwave becomes (within reason) entirely optional, since you don't need any cosmetics to play, and umbral forma don't need to exist since we can already curb stomp the game into oblivion without it, so it too, is just another participation trophy that appeals to min/maxers or people chasing cosmetics.

As far as the people complaining that a challenge is too boring, that's too bad.  Especially when you consider that if they crafted a challenge that was meant for the level I'm geared at, 90% of the community would freak out, calling it impossible.

They are challenges for a reason, and they aren't mandatory for any reason at all.  The whole purpose of the system being that way is to get you to engage in different bits of content (especially those you wouldn't normally do) as a vet, and that's a good thing overall, especially for DE, but also for us because we get some nifty rewards for killing an hour once a week destroying some grineer or w/e, which we were gonna do anyway.

That said lets all keep calm and remember nightwave is 100% optional, even without the old alerts being brought back.  You never NEED any of those rewards from nightwave, all things are still earnable in game (including nitain).

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[Donfs]

As others have said. Nightwave is great but not perfect. For me, I dont care for umbra forma, I will get one so I probably wont be able to decide where to put it anyway. But I like to collect stuff and I would love to get the armor and syandana. I might never use it. But I would like to have it. Just my point of view on the rewards.

Also if nightwave is replacement for alerts Im afraid its a poor one. I liked the alerts a lot. I never stressed about the helmets for frames. The one I want will eventualy come up. Then I can just hop in and do a 5min mission to get it. Here sure the helmet will come around eventualy. Lets just pray that it wont be the first week of a new nightwave when I dont have any creds and cant buy anything. Or maybe I used them all already on other stuff. You should really consider adding the alerts back. This two systems can coexist. Its always better to have a choice in how to get a reward. I might wait for it to be in alert or if I need it now, and its in rotation I can buy it. Mainly new players will suffer in this system I would say.

In the theme of choice, the challenges. Realy good challenges are the daily elemental ones. You get to choose which missions and so on. Maybe the ayatan challenge could be changed to farm 7K Endo instead of socketing 5 sculptures. The Kuva survival would be farm 10K Kuva and Eidolon one would be get 3 Arcanes. Wouldnt that be better?

I completed the 60min survival. It wasnt super hard, it just took a lot of time and I could not pause it. I dont have as much time as I used to. Mainly uninterrupted time.

As others have sugested, give us more challenges per week. You can ballance it by making the prestige go in 20K points steps instead of 10K points. So the hardcore people dont swim in creds and break the game or something.

Overall nightwave took all my time. I still need Akjagara prime, but dont have time to carck relics. Same with the nikana prime relics from weekend wars. I opened one so far. Didnt have time for more. Also there is prime vault. Would be nice to farm some relics and get some sets to sell for plat, but I dont have time for any of that. Hildryn should come this week and I probably wont have time to farm her either since I still have challenges to complete. And why? Because Wolf is here only for a few weeks so everything else have to wait.

Most importantly, please give feedback to our feedback if you can. As I write this am on page 17 and feel like its nearly pointless to write anything. I think am just adding to the noise. My only hope is that by adding to the noise it will get your attention and some of this will be adressed.

[Elrandir]

Context: MR10, solo casual, playing for a year or so.

At first, I was really excited for Nightwave. So, advertised as a replacement to alerts, I just kinda presumed it would be like Simaris  - optional side content to completed between or on top of real gear progress with it's own rep/currency to get some useful rewards. And, unique to Nightwave, an extra track of loot as a reward for staying engaged with the new side content week by week over a season. With dailies as a prestige track for the people who are really dedicated and do the side content every day. Seemed a very reasonable way to reward player engagement over time, and a neat replacement for the randomness of alerts.

Then nightwave landed, and I started the grind. I know this grind. This is not content for pleasure, this is the power creep carrot and ticking clock stick.

Nightwave, overnight, changed Warframe fundamentally from the way I enjoyed it - log in, make a little progress on evergreen content and set my own goals. For me personally no amount of tweaking the acts can make daily and weekly chores compelling gaming. Call me causal, call me entitled but I've been there during the MMO era, burned out on it then, hard. And I won't ever enjoy it again. I want agency and I want to progress at my pace.

So, as I see it, Nightwave changes Warframe's pace to suit a different audience than me. A younger, hungrier and more engaged audience. And, I realize sadly, because this game is really quite unique, that's actually the right business choice for DE.

 

[Kjahla81]

The friend part of Nightwave tied to the highest syndicate earning needs to go. 

Actually "friend/clanmate" is a terrible aspect.  Simple because people got tired of the drought and left leaving me in well crap mode. So I had to rely on recruit chat where trolling can happen. Everything else with nightwave is good but that small friend/clan requirement hinders people.  

Take it out.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Kjahla81

[dizzy_987]

Apparently I don't play warframe in the approved manner or so it seem with the offering in the Nightwave system. Finding very little fun in the current forced game play so I will find something else to fill my time in with outside warframe's.

[Kracken]

On 2019-03-04 at 10:47 PM, [DE]Bear said:

 

So at first pass, we are seeing some concerns rise to the top:

• Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.
• Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.
• Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

 

imo it should also count ANY endless missions if the challenges have the bar set too high. Such as mentioned survival, it should also includes defence, excavation, interception, defection. 

The acts with them can stay - if the challenge is reasonable.

[(XBOX)Rufnax]

I don't dislike the Battlepass idea in general as I acknowledge that it provides huge benefits over the old alert system for everybody and I also understand that alot of hardcore players desperately search for "something" todo in Warframe.

But I really have to say that this new system completely destroyed my motivation to play Warframe at all as I already know from the beginning that I won't reach a 60 or 65% mark at all and I also totally dislike that Warframe turns more into a "i have to play it daily because I must complete the Grind" game.

I understand that it can be a motivation for alot of people but I personally don't want to see a Game as a daily / weekly task that I HAVE to do like normal Tasks as making the dishes or cleaning my house.

I just have to much too do in my personal life to reach the 60% mark and therefore don't even try bothering with that game at the moment.

I personally hope that DE will change the principe just a bit (as said I don't dislike the battle pass Idea in general) so that it will be more suitable for causal players like me but as seeing that the Elite challegenges for this week take even more time to complete destroys my hope. I guess I have to acceppt that casual players like me are not the target audience for Warmframe (Digital Extremes) as we just generate not enough profit in the Games as a Service market.

Sad but true. Still sad.