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[DE]Bear

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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32 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:

 

  • Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.

 

I didn't have an issue with this one honestly but I had statues hanging out in my inventory. Lowering it to two or three would probably help quite a bit.

 

33 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:
  • Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.

 

I liked it but I get why other people did not. I think making sure that people can skip these challenges without being too severely punished is the best route to go with these but don't want them removed completely. A lot of the concern right now is that if there are too many challenges like this that people skip they won't be able to get to the top tiers. We need clarification on how many elite challenges can be skipped and what the upcoming challenges will look like.

 

35 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:
  • Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe".  

 

I get what you are trying to do here but it isn't working. People are just recruiting temporary "friends" to complete the challenges. I would change it to with at least one other person in the squad and be done with it.

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Taking feedback from forums is not really representative, it's almost the same as " we were attempting to speak to the endurance runners". Just the fact that a lot of people on the forums don't like it should tell you that many of challenges are plain terrible, especially for new players. It's almost like DE was inspired by Anthem or smth :thinking:

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Posted (edited)

As of the moment the Nightwave system does not feel overly friendly to new or casual players. A majority of standing comes from Elite missions (5k a pop) which newer players will not be able to accomplish. Daily and weekly standing can be hit or miss but by completing them alone a player will not be able to advance to rank 3 and earn the wolf cred until the second week at the earliest.

A proposed fix to this would be to offer wolf cred as a reward upon completion of a challenge and/or to offer it for the capture of the prisoners/wolf. This change could be done by keeping the amount low or by raising the prices of cosmetic items in the shop as those are not required for game play progression but are nice to have.

So far the % of challenges we can miss sits around 30%. This number feels a bit deceptive as when doing the math on it that equates to being able to miss all the daily challenges if you can complete your weekly and elite. With that said, it seems as though unless you can do elite challenges you will not be able to reach rank 30. Was this intentional? As it leads to a secondary problem for more casual players, that being when they have a limited amount of game time, it can be difficult to complete all the challenges.

Rather than have a time limit for challenges would it be possible to allow the various challenges to roll over until the end of the event. By having them to roll over as the event progresses previous challenges can be returned to and completed even if it is outside the current time allotment. (in other words say at week 6 you could still be doing week 1’s day 1 challenge) This would allow players who can only play for a few hours on the weekends to complete all challenges or have the opportunity to complete them rather than lose the ability due to a deadline.

Finally a suggestion for when/if it returns would be to allow players to keep their current ranking in the system and continue with the standing grind rather reset them back to square one.

~~~edited from this point on~~~

Additional suggestions to the system that could be in addition or replacement to the above suggestions.

Alerts gave the star chart a feeling of life and provided a sense of choice to the players. Bring back alerts but only offer wolf cred for the completion of the mission. The amount of cred could be between 1-25. Not too much cred but enough that if a player only has a few minutes online then they can still progress towards getting the necessary resources currently found in the nightwave market. This would allow the star chat to feel more lively while still keeping the key element that nightwave was meant to replace. (that being the pay to sleep aspect mentioned by the devs)

Many older/elite/lot of free time players feel nightwave is too easy. While newer/casual players feel it is too difficult. There is a large curve here that needs to be addressed. One concept would be to allow for more challenges after a daily cap has been reached. These additional challenges could directly offer things like Kuva, or rare materials from Cetus/Plains without going threw the various mini games often associated with them. (something that has its own devided among the community). The rewards could open a secondary shop within nightwave where these items might be purchasable for the "elite cred or seasonal cred".

When nightwave comes to a conclusion and the wolfs story to a close, remove wolf cred and change the cred system to "nightwave cred". Make the cred a permanent feature rather then a seasonal. Nothing is more despairing then working hard for something only to have to restart because you started too late in a timed limited event.

Wolf beacon or other seasonal boss beacon. Make some gareented way to spawn in the big bad as while the rate has increased a lot of players still haven't seen him. This could be sold by Barro or by Nora herself. A way to increase a players chance of this boss would be nice. Even if it just took the form of the wolf pulling a stalker and messaging a player to let them know "he knows what they did to the pack" and is "hunting you" now would be appreciated as the spawn rate still feels too low.

Edited by (PS4)wintersfrozen
post has been edited later durring nightwave to bring attention to other sugestions
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Posted (edited)

Take in consideration that the community you have fostered over the years is one that wants everything handed to them in silver plate without any kind of real investment on their part.

1 hour is not a lot of time at all, Personally I appreciate the incentive you gave us this week for both survivals, Thanks a lot, we're few in between and the people that I mentioned above are usually way louder. Having diversity on the challenges is a great idea and as long as you make a good % of the challenges "skipable" (as in being able to get all tier rewards for doing the majority while at the same time skipping some you don't personally like) then I feel you should continue that way. By all means please make the elite challenges challenging.

Not everything needs to be accessible to new players, not everything needs to be a participation award

Edited by Ely.I
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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, --Q--Cumber said:

Please keep Endurance challenges. It's called a challenged for a reason. Its there for a week and we already have people complaining about it at the first day SMH.
People need to understand that this thing doesn't need to be completed within a day like everyone wants, it can be done within a WEEK.

sure it can be done.

and, you have put it very nicely, those are called challenges for a reason, not alerts.

so, why the alerts were replaced by a daily/weekly challenge system exactly?

i am not asking you, perce, this goes to the devs, sorry man, i just had to quote your post for this, though.

 

28 minutes ago, Hedasker said:

I hope you will never attempt to speak to Conclave players with Nightwave Challenges.

dear lord, i hope not too.

besides, conclave has already its own challenges/missions, in the cephalon capture panel, which is on the right hand side of the navigation panel.

we do not need conclave challenges in the nighwaves too, god no.

i had to go through the conclave challenges when i was working my way up in the conclave syndicate, i do not wanna go through a similar thing again.

 

Edited by No1Eye
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Posted (edited)

Acts are not a replacement to Alerts, their original structure in missions as these minor side challenges, a bonus, was fine, because that's all they could do, they cannot carry the weight of replacing the role of Alerts and be the main and only focus for this new system.
Honestly, just get Alerts back alongside Acts.
The ticking clock pressure on people, preying on the common weakness of a fear of missing out, as we look at the long tier list and see the limited Creds, and realize it cannot reward us with the amount we originally gained with alerts, makes most of the players, new or veteran alike, feel depressed by the Sisyphean task ahead of us for the coming months, nay, for the rest of Warframe.
Acts have no unifying theme, they feel divorced from the narrative Nora gives.
If we won't have alerts, then creds need to be more reliable.
And we have a repeat from when the Plains launched, when you later patched each stage to give a rotation of a reward, instead of only at the end of the bounty.
So please patch each act to give something, to make the task feel less unrewarding.
And the amount of work put in needs to be proportional to both the amount of standing given and whatever else concrete is given.

 

On 2019-03-03 at 7:29 PM, SnuggleBuckets said:

How they initially framed the pitch, sold to us how Nightwave will be an improvement, was that this entire system would be more story driven, have more meaning, be more reliable and friendly to people with lives.
But then we only get vague nonsense, promises from Nora of telling us something, while putting us to do house chores.
It's like a quest giver giving us a chore list for cleaning their house, while every once in a while telling us that we are helping with the grand fight against the big baddies outside, in the narrative happening out there in the world, while we slave on with these menial checklists wondering if we might peek some of that action outside the window.
Just so lifeless, boring, inane, repetitive, shallow.
This format was always inoffensive when it was in its proper place, the original Affinity challenges in missions, as a side bonus we could do for extra affinity.
Who in their right mind thought it would work brilliantly as the main and only means of progressing through rewards and story?

It's even more divorced from story and meaningful actions than the original alerts, which had the potential to be made more immersive and story-driven, as you could have made encrypted distress signals from prisoners (rescue alert), spies relaying info on spotting high value targets (capture), corpus generals calling all freelancers about a bounty on grineer aggressors (invasion) etc, then maybe either double lengths but halve frequencies of alerts, or turn all alerts into cooldown ones like Ayatan hunts and Clem survivals, with Nitain having a 6-12h cooldown before you can repeat it, nano spores a 1h, oxium 3h, forma 3d, potatoes a week maybe?

They exacerbated the sense of having no progression with this system too, as now you do these boring chores with no reward, over time finish one chore (act), get a bit of standing, but not enough for a tier rank up, so no reward, then keep doing them, then reach a tier rank up, and your first impression is a lousy sticker, a participation award, a sigil that doesn't even allow you to earn standing passively.
Standing doesn't do anything for us, it's just this abstract signal that you are slowly moving along a painful line.
Wolf Creds are rewarded only on some tiers and not others.
It's just so unrewarding.

Anyone remember when the Plains of Eidolon first launched? People complained of a lack of reward, as you did stages, then only at the end of the entire bounty got something.
They luckily patched that to reward on each stage.
And at least the stages are built to feel like you are doing something concrete, sabotaging supplies, capturing high value targets, rescuing prisoners, culling grineer forces.

Nightwave needs serious rework, it feels so incomplete and half-baked, like the devs felt pressure to release something as they have been delaying most of their mainlines and other advertised content for a few months now.
 

 

 

Edited by SnuggleBuckets
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I don't mind the one hour survival the main problem I see with it is that the reward seems a bit low for the amount of time we spend on it. The previous one was a hydorlist capture and a sortie with a friend? none of those take one hour for 5k standing. So I say keep the one hour long survival but consider increasing the reward. Or I don't know, add a monthly challenge that's really punishing for a lot of standing, that'd be nice.

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41 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:
  • Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.

given how rare ayatans can be outside of sorties and arbitration I think this challenge is garbage

41 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:
  • Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.

just increase the standing. I actually like the length

41 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:
  • Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

eh. since I have friends that play I obviously have nothing against this modifier but I respect the desicion if this gets scrapped to please the solo players

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I agree that challenges regarding Surivival/Defense should be culmulative allowing people who want to complete this as an endurance run can and other who can can break it up into chuncks. Maybe make the 60 minutes of survival rewarded every 20 minutes so you can leave if needed and the equivilant for defense.

 

I would like to see some Elite challenges be a culmination of other challenges. Complete 6 waves of ESO with only a Melee equipped. Could be done solo or with group but everyone in the group has to have the correct set up to complete.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Hey Tenno,

Nightwave is here in all of it’s Nora Night-backed glory, and there has been a lot of back and forth (both on the forums and internally) about the challenges and how to accrue Nightwave standing. Series 1 of Nightwave is our first attempt at this addition to Warframe, and we want to thank you all for sharing your thoughts and requests. We will be using this thread to gather feedback from everyone on all Platforms! 

So at first pass, we are seeing some concerns rise to the top:

  • Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.
  • Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.
  • Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

For some of these Elite challenges, we were attempting to speak to the endurance runners, but it seems we may have missed the mark - if you liked it, or didn't like it, comment below. In the end, we wanted to make a series of challenges that spoke to every type of player, but we do not want to do so at the cost of enjoyment overall.

Nightwave is still new to the community and we are expecting to see more feedback come as the series progresses - you've only seen a % of all Acts, so as Series 1 progresses we need your feedback on the appearing Acts. We've seen players responding with some possible solutions that would make these challenges more piecemeal, balance the resources needed to complete some challenges, and assess social requirements to get your goodies.

We will be applying what we have learned to Nightwave Series 2 - but can only improve with constructive, detailed posts about what you like / didn't like about acts. Knowing what you like is just as important as what you don't like. 
 

Ok, in parts...
1) Kind of late for a feedback thread no? I mean, it's been almost a week... Most of us already wrote our feedback in other threads...

2) Yeah Ayatan Challenge is too RNG dependent, my grandma could tell you that, and she doesn't know what an Ayatan is.

3) Yes 60 minute survivals are just a tad boring... Especially, i mean come on!! Who looked at "3 ESO waves = 60 minute Kuva survival without life support" and thought, "yeah seems right!"? Don't drink and work... seriously...

4) If this is an alternative to Alerts, it need NOT, in fact it SHOULD NOT cater to Endurance players. Its not the same content. If you want to "speak" to the endurance players, make arbitrations better, which you should have a long time ago. Also fix scaling, make rewards scale, and fix it so that mobs don't scale into immortal bullet sponges that can one-hit everything and survive full clips of the most powerful guns in the game.

5) We've seen enough to know we don't want it how it is now. We've seen enough to know that doing these challenges every week for 10 weeks, and into the future of the game is not fun, and is not a good alternative to Alerts. It's not nearly as convenient as Alerts, it doesn't serve the same aggregating and guiding purpose of Alerts. Alerts were not only a convenient way of obtaining resources, but also a way to find people doing the same thing as you, and a ready-made bit of content we could consume without thinking too much. It was something we could login and consume readily. With nightwaves, except for stuff like the Kuva survival, and the Hydrolyst, which are on fixed places, but those are a small portion of it...

I'm sorry if i'm being not as constructive in this reply, but honestly, we don't really need a condescending post, a week after the fact citing the least problematic issues with the whole content.

Anyway, here's some suggestions i had posted previously:

 

Edited by ReaverKane
Added link to previous suggestions
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I think the challenges and execution of Nightwave are great so far. There is a nice variety of challenges and they appeal to all skill levels.
I don't believe there is anything wrong with endurance challenges or challenges that don't cater to inexperienced players; if I player cannot complete them or does not have the time to, the challenge can be simply skipped. I think the 60% lenience for challenge completion in one rotation of rewards is great for this, players can skip challenges that they cannot complete or don't have the time to do and still get all of the rewards.
I believe the only change that needs to be made is a selection of a pool of rewards in each of the 30 ranks. Having to wait weeks to get the new mods is really discouraging.

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So you want a feedback?

Ok, here's mine.

We need more Acts...

Acts should be categorized by difficulty... some should be really, really "hard" to archive...

There should be something for newbies and for Vets... so everyone can get what he/she want...

There shouldn't be any limit... just add more rewards and give us a chance to gain more for our time...

If someone reached tier 30 faster, than give him/her something he/she can use... like (umbra) forma, kuva, catalyst, reactor, boosters, cosmetics... or even something to trade... everything for Wolf Creds... which we could gain after reaching tier 30...

Reconsider to hire someone to create... creative challenges... what we have now is both unbalanced and boring...

This game has lack of late content... vets are leaving because they are simply bored... give us something to do... give us KINGPIN

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il y a 5 minutes, xRufus7x a dit :

   Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.

I didn't have an issue with this one honestly but I had statues hanging out in my inventory. Lowering it to two or three would probably help quite a bit.

Me neither, but you've been here since the beginning and I've been around for a long time. Think about newcomers. They can't get those Ayatan stockpiles in so little time. That's the number one issue.

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Posted (edited)

i don't really have any qualms about the tasks presented thusfar, for the most part. Earth Bounties has been the most unfun one so far, but that is because Earth Bounties make me fall asleep while playing.
Venus Bounties are a lot better, and i'm optimistic for Earth Bounties sharing some of those beneficial features that Venus introduced.

i'm more than ok with asking Players to play a 60min Survival. it's only once. and it ties in with several of the other Weekly tasks very conveniently this time.... you could complete like half of them all at once in playing a single Grineer Fortress Survival to 60min. conveniently fast and efficient!

 

i also agree with the premise of awarding a more task appropriate amount of Points for completing it. if it's something that does require a lot more time, or well, effort at all from the Player, then it should probably award more than tasks that are basically "play the game for a few minutes".

 

@Voltage surprisingly helpful again :kiss: *wink*

i agree, that if you want to offer tasks that aren't just AFK'ing for a while and actually getting Players to do something - provide enough Tasks that the most of the Players that can't and/or won't complete tasks that actually require them to do something, to still be able to participate in Nightwave Standing without completing them.
for better or for worse, Warframe has created a Community of spoonfeeding, and if you don't just give stuff away for free, people will be angry. it's not our fault (the 1% Players), but it is what it is so whatever.
so, more Elite Weekly tasks can be provided, as well as more 'normal' Weekly tasks. you could even introduce a Tier above Elite... Legendary? idk. where you can put tasks that are actually difficult to achieve.

and then yes, people will be overrunning points by a lot if they do everything. not very many will do everything, however. but for those that do, you could say, convert extra Standing above the max that Players have achieved at the end of the Season into extra Wolf Creds, perhaps? at a 1/1000 rate or something.

 

 

on the side, i think i recommend changing Wolf Creds from a specific Reward on the Ranks, to giving say, 10 each time you Rank up. that makes every Rank equal value in terms of what you can buy from Nightwave.
there could also be ways related to the tasks to get extra. maybe those 'Legendary' tasks i mentioned could house them. say, if you complete a Legendary task in a Week (complete any, >0) then get 15-20 Wolf Creds or so.

Edited by taiiat
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Posted (edited)

Increase the standing of each mission for a start, i'd say 7 weeks for the last rewards are just as annoying as sitting on a hedgehog

There should be at least 5/6 missions in the DAILY category as well

Things such 10 perfect captures etc for psychotic long survival runners like me may be more tedius than farming for Khora's but on the other hand i see alot of people didn't like the 60 mins survival because afterall it's too long if someone has limited time.

Middle ground there

The rest has been already addressed

Edited by arm4geddon-117
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I honestly were fine with the 1h survival, but i agree that having 2 elite missions about that was too much, because for doing them you need to be sure to have 1h of time for the mission plus the time needed to find a group, which could be fast or take a lot.

I think of 3 elites I think at least 2 should be something hard/not for everyone, like the hydrolist. Maybe adding another daily mission to compensate for new players.

Because I like the challenge of some elites, but nightwave it's something that right now is way more interesting for newer players than vets reward wise, because we already have all base alert rewards, nitain? Depends on how much one farmed, Catalyst/reactors? Eh, a vet has probably more than enough of them, expecially the second.

As final points, as I read above too, I think there could be a balance in weekly standing, with the same total each week, but not evenly distribuited, because getting the same standing for opening 3 relics (15 minutes) and 8 bounties (which I think even going as fast as possible is still not less than 25/30 minutes and way more boring) don't have the same value.

Friend/clanmates it's something I don't like, because if one is in a not big/active clan is probably going to do them adding random pubs just to remove them later or forget of them.

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I really enjoyed nightwave but I do feel for the people that are stressed out worrying they won’t get everything they want or feel like they’re missing out by not getting the crazier challenges like the 1 hour survival.

Maybe have the more extreme challenges only reward players with an exclusive sigil and a Trophy/Noggle for their ship. Insane challenges are just fun because they exist, like the “Mile High Club” achievement in COD (#teambrad), but it sucks when it feels like a barrier to progress, so I get it.

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Until the first "season" is over, it will be hard to judge how easy it is to get the rewards you want without doing the challenges you "cannot"

DE pushing players to do things they normally wouldn't,

for optional rewards,

that will return,

is a good thing in my opinion.

 

Not everyone has to do all the challenges, but the fact that they are available is very nice.
There is a lot of good content in this game that has been forgotten due to new updates and metas.

 

Just because you cannot immediately steamroll content does not mean it is too hard,  it just requires more effort or thought.

 

And for the record, one hour is not long, and recruiting chat can find you a buddy to friend in seconds

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, No1Eye said:

sure it doesn't.

and, you have put it very nicely, those are challenges, not alerts.

so, why the alerts were replaced by a daily/weekly challenge system exactly?

i am not asking you, perce, this goes to the devs, sorry man, i just had to quote your post for this, though.

I have to agree with the fact that this is indeed a bad replacement for alerts. They should at least adjust the prices in "Cred Offerings" or at least increase the wolf cred reward amount. Since the rewards rotate peer week most people in need wont be able to gather enough wolf credits to get what they want with the rate it's being given out atm.
But other than that i like the new addition of rewarding players with unique items by doing weekly challenges at least it gives us something to do and gives DE what they want "player retention".

Edited by --Q--Cumber
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I've given my comments in previous postings, but I'll give it to you here too.

While I can understand that many will like this new system, there are some that don't like things that were removed.

Here are my bullets:

  1. I don't like the removal of the old alert system.
  2. I don't like how Cephalon Simaris Synthesis Targets no longer display the name of the designated target.
  3. I don't like that I can't completely silence Nora - as when the you happen to complete one of the "challenges" as I don't even pay attention to what the target is.
  4. I don't like that the extra little side quest for more Affinity like slide kills and etc. was removed and replaced with Nora's Nightwave.
  5. I don't like the change where I have to switch out of the displaying of Nightwave so I can see Resource Drones display. If anything these should be reversed.

Personally, I would rather see Nightwave be more in line with the other "Alerts" on the Nav screen, where you have the option to do Nightwave along with Quests, Alerts, Invasions, etc..

Being more of a casual player, it took convincing from friends to get me to play this game, as when I checked it out it had way to much going on and no clear explanations of the many aspects of the game. Once my friends walked me through much of the gameplay I started to enjoy the game, as I wasn't being forced into things in order to advance.

This past year you have added a number of new things, which was overall good, but I haven't participated in much - like Orb Vallis - as I didn't really need to in order to continue playing the way I liked. Nightwave has changed things that totally affect my play time, so I am loosing interest.

Don't know if you can see how much I have invested, but ... my interest is waning.

 

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3 minutes ago, Hedasker said:

Me neither, but you've been here since the beginning and I've been around for a long time. Think about newcomers. They can't get those Ayatan stockpiles in so little time. That's the number one issue.

Some of that goes along with what I put about the survival. People need a clearer picture on how many they can miss safely. On top of that I recommended reducing it to two or three because one is available through a weekly challenge and the likelyhood of getting at least one through the sorties in a week long period is extremely high. I usually also find some in syndicate missions so people can tackle both of those at the same time. On top of that arbitrations have a 50% drop chance for a statue in the first rotation. It could motivate some to clear the star chart, which was one of the benefits of the old alert system.

If it is one it might as well be the glyph throwing challenge and should likewise be downgraded to a daily.

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Posted (edited)

Thank you for making this thread!


Ayatans:

This really was a little much, I'm glad you guys see it.  I'd just turned several in to Maroo the day before Nightwave popped. I ended up getting only 2 over the course of the week (unusually bad luck with arbs and such), and finally gave up and asked one of my brothers who has a stash of empty Anasas if I could borrow 3 to fill them and return them, which did let me complete it this time.

Hopefully we don't have to wait with it popping up still at 5 for the remainder of this event to see it fixed.  Since it's not up this week, it seems a good time to adjust that (if feasible).


Hour Long Survivals:

One of the selling points of this system was that it would be less harsh to more casual players.  And there are certainly some ways it achieves that!  But this in particular really runs counter to that.  And, honestly?  I get nervous as missions go longer, it's a lot more to lose if my ISP has a (thankfully rare) hiccup.  One of my brothers has somewhat crappy rural internet, so it's a bigger issue for someone like him.  It'd be a lot better if broken up so someone needed to spend an hour in Survival over the course of the week, distrubted however they see fit.  They could spend 5, 10, 20, whatever makes the player happy, and it all counts cumulatively.


Solo Play:

This is really the meat of the issue for me.  The rest is mostly tuning, but this is a question of the philosophy of the game, y'know?

So here's the thing about Warframe. It's a really fun game!  It's really fun to play with friends, and I love to do so! And it's a lot of fun to play solo, and I love that, too.

With the alerts system, which this system replaced, we could complete them however we chose.  Solo play was completely valid.  We didn't miss out on a reward because we did not group up.  Even running rifts solo only reduces our odds on getting what we want in the moment, rather than locking anything out of our grasp.

Before Nightwave, people ran with their friends and clanmates if that was what made them happy. People ran solo if that was what made them happy. Or because that's what their connection allowed on that day.  Or because they needed to be able to pause in case something came up with their partners, children, pets.  Or because their favorite people to run with weren't available.

Some do exclusively one or the other, others switch between them as mood and circumstance demand.  

But ultimately, everyone did what made them happiest at the time.

At no point was it obligatory to play with our friends.

And in this system, it kind of feels obligatory.  I know we have a bit of leeway, the 65% or so.  However, that leeway reads to a lot of people as leeway for life happening.  If we miss some days here or there, if we miss a week, we can still finish.  When huge chunks of level-and-reward progressing rep are locked behind "play in a way you can't, or are not comfortable with", that eats into that leeway.  Now the margins are thinner - can a player now afford life taking them away for 2 weeks?

I don't like the obligatory feeling of playing with my brothers.  I love playing with them, but the pressure to try to keep the same schedules so nobody misses out isn't as much fun as more organic "Hey wanna do this thing?" interaction.  TBH?  I'd probably do a lot of this stuff with them, anyway!  You know, provided they're available!  One may go days or weeks without logging in, the other takes even longer breaks.

It's intended as an extra bonus for those who play this way.  But that isn't how it works out.  It would be if we had some sort of weekly cap, with more available rep than we could actually earn, and playing with friends was a more efficient way to achieve that cap.  But I don't necessarily want to see a system like that, either.  It comes with its own frustrations for people. Especially when simply allowing us to complete these challenges either solo or in multiplayer as we see fit alleviates the issue anyway.

And...it all has become a little transactional, which I can't imagine you intended.  People add temporary friends purely for these missions, then unfriend them.  And, well, I'd ask you to look at some of the discussions on these forums on the subject.  This breeds a lot of hostility that just didn't exist between solo and multiplayer players before, because you've now endorsed one playstyle over the other in a really hands-on way - well beyond the issues of weapon affinity mechanics and such.  The message being sent is that solo play just isn't as valid, and the community will pick up on and run with that sort of thing; those who don't do it just need to "get friends".  This is not the spirit of community that I think you guys intended.  And that's leaving aside the troll potential of things like the Kuva mission right now.

I see what you guys are going for. Playing with our friends is fun!  You want your players to experience that!  But I would really say...this just isn't necessary.  You do not need to artificially encourage something which was already happening organically.  Especially not if it's going to come across so much a penalty to those who, for whatever reason, don't play that way.


Bit of a wall of text there, sorry.  But again, thanks for making this thread!

Edited by Andvarja
I accidentally a word
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I think nightwave is a step in the right direction since it removes the randomness of alerts and therefore alert only items (alt helm, nitains, etc.) in theory can be obtained at the player's pace. 

But in practice the progression is way too slow. In 10 weeks if a player can get to rank 30, they have 300 wolf cred. For veteran, it basically means more potatoes and nitains to stockpile. But for newer players (IF they even get to rank 30), 300 cred amounts to 9 alt helms, or 4 potatoes, or some nitain, or some mixture of the above. That is abysmal. Now I know potato and nitain are random, but I don't believe a newer player will get significantly different rewards if they have the old alert system for 10 weeks. And this is only assuming the new players happen to start these nightwave acts at the beginning of the season, because then they will have even less cred whereas alerts comes around often, especially the alt helms. 

About the acts themselves: I actually liked the first week. Invasion, bounties are a nice change of pace, and even the hydrolyst hunt is something a new player can aspire to. At the end, a new player can ask the person who carried him "should I try to gear up for this?" and the answer will be "YES, there are some cool arcanes that expands your play styles". The survivals this week, however, is just too time consuming for a game wanting to offer bite size content. And even at the end, the answer to "was that something I should work towards?" will most likely be a "no, 20mins gets you the same reward as 100mins, high risk and low reward". My suggestion to all of these 60min/60 wave mission is to make them cumulative. Complete a total of 60min/60 waves then you complete the act. Then players can play at their own pace. I will say this again: don't promote bite size content, get the majority of the community used to AABC and out, then suddenly slap us with a 60min run. 

Overall I believe nightwave is a good step in the right direction, but a lot of improvements can be made to satisfy more groups of players. Also remember: you want a looter to drop loot NOW because that is what keeps us going. Even a bad drop is better than no drop at all. 

 

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For the first time ever, my son did not want to play Warframe with me.  He usually loves to play video games with me but this new survival was the straw that broke the camels back. He said it was boring.  

I have to agree, 1-hr on a survival is boring when camping is ideal strategy so life support doesn't stop dropping (and someone gets stuck playing mandatory nekro).  I even skipped the 30 minute survival for new vaulted relics.  10 minute sortie survivals is the max I will be tied down to a chair but honestly skip most of those days as well.  

So, a preteen that loves video games now thinks Warframe is boring and doesn't want to play with his old man.  

 

I know there are tons of feedback on this but wanted to pass this critical piece of info out there.  DE, you are going to lose most new players and many old with this new system.  Maybe you will see a seventh year, maybe not.  

This system is very bad and there are lots of threads talking about it but I had to get this out there.  I guess we will have to play another game together because I do enjoy that bonding.  

I hope you guys can fix it fast before permanent damage done to playerbase. 

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The biggest change I'd make, that would go a LONG way to easing the issues here:

Increase the total number of Acts available per day/week. (at least double in each category)
Keep the current number of completeable acts (no change in achievable standing).
Make sure the algorithm that selects the Acts spreads things out, so we don't get more than 1 "have friends" mission, and 1 endurance run...

Now, we pick and choose the acts that fit our playstyle and circumstances (like Alerts, we could choose to pass them up if we didn't like Interceptions, etc)

 

I'd also bring back alerts with resources and credits (a bit higher credits) and longer lasting time periods to complete.

Anyway, heading off to work or I'd add more.

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