Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[--END--Rikutatis]

9 hours ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

Wow a new week of Nora's stupid acts - and you guessed it they suck - DE stop forcing players to play these stupid acts - it's more time consuming and grindy and less rewarding, but most importantly it's not fun to play. 

Bring back the quick alert system now - don't wait 10 weeks for feedback you should have gotten before releasing it in the first place.

 

Speak for yourself, many of us are clearly enjoying it and we don't need the old alerts back. A lot of those challenges are stuff you can do while normally playing the game or doing stuff you should be doing anyway to progress.

 

9 hours ago, LightZodiac said:

i just hope that elite alerts will not become tasks such as pick 4 flowers. These are not necessary to reach the goal and if somebody finds some of them too hard to tedious he is able to simply skip them and still reach the rank 30 with Nightwave.

 

Exactly. It's really disheartening to see all the whining on the forums when DE finally decides to give us a few decent challenges here and there. The 60 min survival without activating life supports was a genuine good challenge. People need to realize they don't NEED to get to rank 30. People need to stop with this "gotta catch 'em all" mentality in WF. You don't need to have 100% completion on all content. Stop stressing yourself over it, do enough Nightwave to have the nitain/potatoes you need and done. Go do other stuff. 

[--END--Rikutatis]

2 hours ago, TuxaLim said:

Right now I feel like I have to do wolf stuff, I know this isn't really the case but I still feel like I have to.

Honestly, that's on you then. Not on DE. Get over it. You don't need to do it. As I said in my other post, people need to stop with this mentality in WF, that they absolutely must do and have every single thing in the game. If you need a few nitain or a couple potatoes, do enough to get that with the challenges that do appeal to you, then go do other stuff. I really dislike mining in WF, I haven't even bothered mining for the stuff needed to craft the 2 handed Nikana. There's other stuff for me to do in the game. 

[BrazilianJoe]

On 2019-03-04 at 6:47 PM, [DE]Bear said:

 

So at first pass, we are seeing some concerns rise to the top:

• Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.
• Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.
• Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

 

I wouldn't mind those tasks at a "legendary task", provided they are "going the extra mile". 
I.e. the player may still hit level 30 if the never does these, or may hunt these to catch up if he had little time to play and lost some tasks. 

Or make them cumulative, so the player may collectively play 60 min. survival instead of going in one sitting. 

IMO the "clan/friend" requirement is a non-issue, the chat can be used to find someone willing to do the task, and you can friend the person on the spot. Which is what I did, even though I have a clan and old time friends, I couldn't coordinate with my old-timers. You could make it so that the "with a friend/clanmate" requirement is changed to a bonus rep that applies to all challenges. 

Ayatan statues whould be changed from that to "Have at least 4 Ayatan statues be found by you or teammates."
What it means: If you do a single Maroo run with a full squad - not necessarily friends/clanmates, just a squad - each one gets a Ayatan statue, snatching the win.
But make it repeatable so you can get the reward multiple times.
The first time is basically guaranteed with Maroo. Reruns should be possible, and are still RNG, but it shouldn't matter as they are bonus rep. If you do sorties, you are already likely to get at least one extra. 
 

[Kontrollo]

5 Sorties is probably a tad much when compared to the other challenges, especially the "do one Sortie with a friend". Not that they're difficult and I won't have a problem doing this challenge either. It's more about the combination of playtime investment, time gating and comparison to others that makes this one stick out.

Maybe shave off one or two there. Alternatively, make it reward more standing.

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

10 hours ago, LightZodiac said:

Ouch.

Well I urge DE to increase standing for fugitives to 100 for other platforms as well.

50 standing is too low, 100 feels just right.

Wait.

PC’s fugitives gives 100 standing each? Or am I reading this wrong?

[AltheusV]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)jaegerbombtastic said:

Wait.

PC’s fugitives gives 100 standing each? Or am I reading this wrong?

They give 100 standing in orb valis and 50 elsewhere.

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

49 minutes ago, AltheusV said:

They give 100 standing in orb valis and 50 elsewhere.

PS4 gives 50, Vallis or not. I’m assuming that was with pc’s recent update.

Edited March 11, 2019 by (PS4)jaegerbombtastic

[Kuldor]

I liked the system at first but now it's feeling opressive.

 

I feel like I have to complete the challenges, like the game is ordering me to do stuff, I don't feel like I have the choice of doing whatever I want to do, it just feels I'm wasting time if I'm not completing nightwave challenges.

 

It's like there's an alert you "should" do, but instead of doing it and that's it, the alert is active 24/7 and you need to do it over and over again or you'll be behind the rest. Not only that, so far some challenges make you do stuff that's not exactly fun to do, fishing and minning? really? 8 damn bounties? have you never read feedback about how people feel about repeating bounties DE? an hour long survival after you've said you don't want to give extra rewards to very long endless sesions?

 

The whole system feels like I HAVE to play WF constantly or else I'm #*!%ed, and I don't like when a game puts pressure on me for no good reason.

[LuckyCharm]

Another week, another lack of interesting things to do and more grind than ever. Not really talking about sorties, though they are grindy, but more about just how many vallis bounties you need to do and gems and fish needed to pray to rng for. Add to those four a bunch of things like lua challenge rooms everyone by now probably has completed a bunch but usually require more than one person its just stuffing the nightwave missions with busywork. Even riven challenges would have made better things to do than just mission after needless mission grind

[Mentat_Of_Dune]

Hi, i just saw the new daily\weekly challenges, and i was thinking:

can we PLEASE avoid farming related challenges?

I mean we're here to have fun, it's a fight game.

Please, just avoid boring things, Lua spies and orokin vaults  included!

Let us enjoy figthing instead, like killing bosses with only one weapon equipped or i dunno the other 3000 things you can do in fighting.

 

Thanks for you hard work.

 

[TheFBD]

Looking at this weeks challenges i decided to "opt out" of nightwaves. Not gonna look into those anymore and may only do challenges "on accident" when i unintentionally complete one.

They feel like a 9/5 job by now, like do this stuff you don't like to do, just get over with it. For the next few hours. Then you can go home and do stuff you actually enjoy.

And on top of that there are the thermia fissures now too, which are also tedious grinds. 100 fissures to get the opticor? i'll pass.
Scanning the data things? Uhm, nope. Where is the fun in that??

I'm actually looking forward to one or two hours of warframe every day - today i logged out after 20 mins. Right now looking through my steam library to see what else i could do to actually have some fun because warframe is getting pretty depressing recently.

[marelooke]

13 hours ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

Wow a new week of Nora's stupid acts - and you guessed it they suck - DE stop forcing players to play these stupid acts - it's more time consuming and grindy and less rewarding, but most importantly it's not fun to play. I left my maxed out guild in Star Wars: The old republic because EAware changed the guild conquest system overnight without telling anyone about it and made it completely not fun to play. Then they refused to change it back as thousands of players quit the game from a dwindling population already on life support. Don't make the same mistake DE.

Bring back the quick alert system now - don't wait 10 weeks for feedback you should have gotten before releasing it in the first place.

 

Couldn't agree more. Nothing fun, interesting or part of my usual gameplay loop in there.

The only two I'd do "just because" would be the Clem and Exterminate one (well, I need OV fish so that one might get done anyway). The rest is just tedious busywork.

I'll probably put up with the system this season (while complaining loudly), but without major changes I'll be out when the next one comes around.

Edited March 11, 2019 by marelooke

[marelooke]

1 hour ago, (PS4)jaegerbombtastic said:

PS4 gives 50, Vallis or not. I’m assuming that was with pc’s recent update.

Yes, the event adds an Orb Vallis local resource booster.

[simplygnome]

30 minutes ago, marelooke said:

Couldn't agree more. Nothing fun, interesting or part of my usual gameplay loop in there.

The only two I'd do "just because" would be the Clem and Exterminate one (well, I need OV fish so that one might get done anyway). The rest is just tedious busywork.

I'll probably put up with the system this season (while complaining loudly), but without major changes I'll be out when the next one comes around.

Im 100% with you there. It has not been fun, and all its doing it eating my game time.

I think my normal rotation would do the Dailys (which I have liked most of them), and probably the Sortie one. Otherwise, I wouldnt be getting anything else. So 12K NW rep out of the min 60% (30k) needed.

I have stopped my purchases to DE, giving up a 70% login reward, for the moment. Its just not fun and Im doing the min to keep up with NW/Events then logging, which is MUCH LESS than my normal game time. 

[EllzeeLim]

4 hours ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

Honestly, that's on you then. Not on DE. Get over it. You don't need to do it. As I said in my other post, people need to stop with this mentality in WF, that they absolutely must do and have every single thing in the game. If you need a few nitain or a couple potatoes, do enough to get that with the challenges that do appeal to you, then go do other stuff. I really dislike mining in WF, I haven't even bothered mining for the stuff needed to craft the 2 handed Nikana. There's other stuff for me to do in the game. 

Generally I would agree but currently, the only way to get umbra forma is to get to at least 29. If it was at 15 or maybe even 20 then I probably wouldn't be that bothered. The thing with almost every other grind in the game is that you can take part or not.  With this... at least for the foreseeable future you either have to join in and get to 29 or miss out... not get eventually or just slower but not at all unless/until they change the requirements.

 

I don't enjoy fortuna but that's ok I can do a bounty, or whatever,  every once in a while and I'll get the standing needed in the end.

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by TuxaLim

[Enialyx]

I absolutely hate that,

1) I'm being pressured to play content chosen for me.
2) Doing so takes a lot of time.
3) The content is mindless chores.

Either let me play what I choose or take away the time constraint.

[mrEkli]

We're three weeks in and why are we doing the challenges? What is the story? Why was the wolf imprisoned? Was it for breaking out of the prison?  Is he the Wolf of Saturn 5 as well then?

[nokturnihs]

I would have to say that the most recent set of Nightwave challenges is discouraging for new players at the least.

Five sorties is one challenge, but sorties ARE "MR Locked" in the sense that you need to progress so far in the star chart. Furthermore just because you can access the sorties doesn't mean you can do them. I'm MR26 but I know several players who are new and under MR10 who can do the sorties but would never be able to accomplish them without me or someone else carrying them. If they do it with a less-than-friendly pub group they may or may not have enough revives to succeed. And with a group of people who need carrying, gonna be a problem.

Rare gems on PoE are (unless this has changed and I missed it) also reputation locked because of the need for the higher tier mining laser, which requires a specific rep level on cetus to acquire.

rare fish on Fortuna - again bait for those fish is faction locked

The unseen challenge requires Loki or Ivara - mind you loki isn't incredibly difficult to acquire but most people grind at spies for months to get ivara. Also I've known MR14 guys who had neither loki nor ivara because they didn't know where to get them.

Overall, I'd say if the purpose of reworking alerts into something usable for new players in the form of Nightwave it's failing so far. The objectives are incredibly challenging for new players (60 min Kuva survival? For someone MR10 or lower? Come on....)

What I see nightwave as being is a high grind-wall locking content down to encourage platinum expense. It'll work great for that. No more will people need to use their mobile app to watch for the alerts they could hop on and do in 20min to achieve the same results days/weeks of grinding could earn them before. Now it's a mandatory play time of several hours EVERY DAY for the same result and the challenge rate is much higher.

These challenges are grind-heavy and for those of us who have been playing A LONG TIME, and now can only spend the time to log in for hours maybe one night each weekend, it just leaves a bad taste in our mouth. I'm MR26 - I am constantly dealing with content drought. This isn't new content, this is forcing old content on us and the only thing that interests me are the new mods (not great but something to mess with) and the umbral forma (not needed because I've already spend 6+ forma on most warframes/melee weapons I wanted an umbral build on, including a few frames "just because" ). So seeing a grindy, VERY time consuming chores list makes me disappointed. That combined with the mechanics of "operation buried debt" makes me nervous about future content being locked behind ridiculous amounts of tedium. What's new and fresh gets old and unappealing after about 10 times doing it. 

Just my two cents but I think nightwave is doing more to inspire new players to shell out platinum than it is to help them out.

 

[Softballbryan]

I like the nightwave challenges. The one hour kuva survival required 7 tries and I learned a lot in the process. I’ve already learned more from the Lua ascension challenges. Keep it coming and make some of them even more difficult. 

[EllzeeLim]

If the standing was a permanent thing and after phase 1 I could just keep plugging away until I eventually get to 30 then prestige and do it again then fine but if I understand correctly (and this is where I'm hoping I missed or misunderstood something)

You have 10 weeks to get to 30+ if you want to get everything then your standing is reset and there will be a new set of rewards?   And have to grind again or miss out again. I don't mind things taking a long time but having to chose between content I don't enjoy/not in the mood and get the rewards or play the game the way I enjoy/am in the mood for and miss out.

[simplygnome]

35 minutes ago, TuxaLim said:

If the standing was a permanent thing and after phase 1 I could just keep plugging away until I eventually get to 30 then prestige and do it again then fine but if I understand correctly (and this is where I'm hoping I missed or misunderstood something)

You have 10 weeks to get to 30+ if you want to get everything then your standing is reset and there will be a new set of rewards?   And have to grind again or miss out again. I don't mind things taking a long time but having to chose between content I don't enjoy/not in the mood and get the rewards or play the game the way I enjoy/am in the mood for and miss out.

Thats actually a FANTASTIC IDEA.

I would 100% be okay with nightwave if it was in 10 week sets, but I could get rep on my own time, then once NW Season 2 comes out, Id just have to finish set 1 and then Id prestige to set 2, and that could stack every 10 weeks.

I still dont think its a worthy replacement for alerts, but that would completely remove my opposition to it.  Then again, DE wouldnt beable to resue the same rewards recycled for multiple events.

Edited March 11, 2019 by simplygnome

[Drivrius]

3rd week, all challenges are doable, the only one that seems restrictive is the 5 sorties, make it 3 in the future as to not force people to do missions they may not be comfortable with, I know I'll be mostly useless if/when spy shows up...

 

Other then that, the "exterminate level 35+ in stealth" I accidentally got it when doing the exterminate part of Sunday's Sortie, no I have no idea how that works either, we went full frontal assault not even an attempt at stealth was made, not that I'm complaining.

 

Also I got a couple "drift" exilus mods I didn't even know existed.

[v1ld_wf]

Nightwave is taking away the feeling of choice and self determination that is so core to the Warframe experience for me. For example, I don't want to spend time in doing OV right now, I'm having fun with the game elsewhere.  That disconnect between me having fun with doing what I find fun right now and what Nightwave wants me to do this week is now large enough that I'm gonna stop it till the next season brings changes to the format.

These tasks have the feeling of an attempt to have players check out the variety in the game and in some cases show players aspects they may have missed (like elemental damage types).  The time limit and forced linear progression through the reward tiers combine to make them into chores rather than rewarding to play for me. 

The game is generally good at letting you enjoy what you find fun with ways to work around the parts that you find unsatisfying.  I don't like grinding standing with the daily caps, so I decided early on to trade for syndicate gear. That has worked well and is an example of the flexibility in the core design.  Trade lets you skip unfun grinds. 

Alerts let you pick and choose what you wanted. I did mods, weapons, vauban initially but later picked up helmets when I got into the game more. It was neat that I could ignore the ones I wasnt interested in at any time. The random times could have been addressed by making them last a day and similar tweaks.

The linear nature of the reward tiers is unappealing - I don't want the Saturn 6 stickers right now for eg but I have to grind through them - no choice.  I need Nitain for Revenant but I made the mistake of buying a Reactor for Mesa Prime, now I get to wait for a few weeks for Revenant - a bad choice.

One takeaway for me is to not spend Wolf creds on anything but Nitain and buy potatoes from the market, Nitain is now too expensive to risk not having at where I am I in the game. 

Please consider removing the linear reward tiers and standing grind and giving direct rewards - 5 sorties for 15 Nitain for eg. 

I see similar posts about choice so I hope you take that aspect of the criticism on board. 

I also see people pushing back on the criticism because they like 60 minute Kuva Survivals. That's a very valid point, there needs to be more end game things to do.  But why that was conflated with the alerts replacement is unclear - the problem bring solved was inaccessibility not challenge. 

[EllzeeLim]

41 minutes ago, simplygnome said:

Thats actually a FANTASTIC IDEA.

I would 100% be okay with nightwave if it was in 10 week sets, but I could get rep on my own time, then once NW Season 2 comes out, Id just have to finish set 1 and then Id prestige to set 2, and that could stack every 10 weeks.

I still dont think its a worthy replacement for alerts, but that would completely remove my opposition to it.  Then again, DE wouldnt beable to resue the same rewards recycled for multiple events.

I actually quite like the event specific stuff being locked to the event. So the sigils, glyphs, wolf armour, syandana etc all event locked so that when season 2 starts they become unavailable, a reward for participation. But things like the umbra forma... slots etc, that's what I don't like.

Maybe if all the rewards were either event specific/cred then all non-event stuff could be added to the wolf cred part.  They could limit the purchases to one per customer, that way, a filthy semi-casual, like myself, could choose to save the cred for a specific item, like the unbra forma, but someone that takes part in everything would easily earn enough cred to buy 1 of each (one per customer) item and some left over for the other cred stuff.

[simplygnome]

9 minutes ago, (NSW)v1ld said:

Nightwave is taking away the feeling of choice and self determination that is so core to the Warframe experience for me. For example, I don't want to spend time in doing OV right now, I'm having fun with the game elsewhere.  That disconnect between me having fun with doing what I find fun right now and what Nightwave wants me to do this week is now large enough that I'm gonna stop it till the next season brings changes to the format.

[...snip...]
The game is generally good at letting you enjoy what you find fun with ways to work around the parts that you find unsatisfying. 

Bold for and cut for emphasis, this and all of this.