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[DE]Bear

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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Contrary to most people, I would actually like the old alerts to come back, but with longer times before they expire. Have standard alerts be for the more casual players, who can or want to take it slow when it comes to getting the stuff they want. That's not to say I don't like Nightwave Alerts, I've probably never had this much fun doing some small errands on a game, and I always seem to have something to do on warframe now, but having those smaller alerts to go to was also pretty nice.

 

Edit- another note I forgot to add was that I would like to see an in-game timeframe letting us know how long the Nightwave 'Transmission' will last. (Or if there is already one, making it more visible/ obvious.)

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I am gonna get flamed on this but can you please put even more variety in the weekly missions? Include archwing, PvP, arbitration, Index and Lunaro (probably even more but can't think of any currently). However don't increase the amount of standing required for each rank just add them as additional weekly missions. That way you will give more options to players to complete challenges without forcing it on them. Steve mentioned on last devstream that you will need roughly 60 % done to get all rewards. By giving more optional missions you can decrease this to 40-50% needed to get all rewards from the tiers. However by including these in the rotations people will get a fresh breath of doing some forgotten modes and mission types that are in the game and deserve a spot. However you will not force it on anyone as there will be plenty more options for each one's taste.

Please keep the long survivals and harder weekly as they are currently. (On the first week I just did the kuva survival with a friend without using life supports for 60 minutes and completed both 60 min survival missions together. Not to mention the fact that for 60 min in I did several small missions as well like the 8 rare mods one, 150 kills with some damage type, 80 eximus enemies and such.). Maybe tweak their standing gain so it is balanced. I don't see how "do a sortie with a friend/clanmate" and "do 5 sorties" can reward the same standing. As for the arguments , everybody will say something - this is too hard, this is too grindy, I don't have friends/clan... these are just lame excuses. I can literally ask in general chat if someone is willing to do a sortie with me and add him/her as a friend in 10 sec. Almost everything that someone can complain about can easily be bypassed by increasing the weekly generated missions. As explained above that way you will not force the grind on anyone, just give more options in the hands of the needy to complete the chain.

The only somehow valid argument against this is people with OCD. They will be screwed for sure but hey... this game have soo much content that at this point I am not sure if anyone with solid OCD can even stand playing it and completing everything that pops on daily basis without loosing sanity.

 

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1 minute ago, Didoguard said:

I am gonna get flamed on this but can you please put even more variety in the weekly missions? Include archwing, PvP, arbitration, Index and Lunaro (probably even more but can't think of any currently). However don't increase the amount of standing required for each rank just add them as additional weekly missions. That way you will give more options to players to complete challenges without forcing it on them. Steve mentioned on last devstream that you will need roughly 60 % done to get all rewards. By giving more optional missions you can decrease this to 40-50% needed to get all rewards from the tiers. However by including these in the rotations people will get a fresh breath of doing some forgotten modes and mission types that are in the game and deserve a spot. However you will not force it on anyone as there will be plenty more options for each one's taste.

Please keep the long survivals and harder weekly as they are currently. (On the first week I just did the kuva survival with a friend without using life supports for 60 minutes and completed both 60 min survival missions together. Not to mention the fact that for 60 min in I did several small missions as well like the 8 rare mods one, 150 kills with some damage type, 80 eximus enemies and such.). Maybe tweak their standing gain so it is balanced. I don't see how "do a sortie with a friend/clanmate" and "do 5 sorties" can reward the same standing. As for the arguments , everybody will say something - this is too hard, this is too grindy, I don't have friends/clan... these are just lame excuses. I can literally ask in general chat if someone is willing to do a sortie with me and add him/her as a friend in 10 sec. Almost everything that someone can complain about can easily be bypassed by increasing the weekly generated missions. As explained above that way you will not force the grind on anyone, just give more options in the hands of the needy to complete the chain.

The only somehow valid argument against this is people with OCD. They will be screwed for sure but hey... this game have soo much content that at this point I am not sure if anyone with solid OCD can even stand playing it and completing everything that pops on daily basis without loosing sanity.

 

some players cant be bothered to get friends, and thats not even a joke

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3 hours ago, Qamelion said:

I'm a veteran of the game and I had lots of fun with Nightwave so far! The challanges gave me the opportunity to improve my builds and to play missions that I have forgotten about that they exist. (Endurance runs, bounties and many other missions). Please don't change anything! It's finally a challange and it makes a lot fun!
Love you DE and thank you for that!

What are you even going on about - nothing AT ALL in Nighwave has actually been hard or a challenge in ANY WAY shape or form, and you could play any of those alt game modes any time you wanted.

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1. Complete Sortie 5 times per week is way too much. It should be turned into a two week mission or have it reduced to 3 times max. You only get like 2 days off from sortie because you have other things to do. Also this doesn't include half a week missed to be able to catch up due to not being on.

2. 60 min Kuva survival needs to be reduced to 40 min. Any Survival missions should be reduced to 40 min max because it takes you to lvl 100+ which most players can't do without potatoed weapons or frames. 1 hour is too long.

3. Rare mine and Rare fishing challenge needs to include uncommon. There needs to be a specification of rare resources on codex. New players cannot mine rare ores in Cetus due to being locked behind standing requirements. Same with fishes in Cetus.

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Unsure if anyone else has mentioned it, but instead of doing the "60 min survival", potentially break it down more so into a "Complete X number of C rotations with modifier (eg, the no life support activated)", meaning it can be completed across multiple runs, or in the single run, without the possibility of someone ruining the entire run for the rest of the party (eg, 55+ mins in triggering life support, voiding the entire hour of progress for the rest of the group) Unsure if anyone else has mentioned it, but instead of doing the "60 min survival", potentially break it down more so into a "Complete X number of C rotations with modifier (eg, the no life support activated)", meaning it can be completed across multiple runs, or in the single run, without the possibility of someone ruining the entire run for the rest of the party (eg, 55+ mins in triggering life support, voiding the entire hour of progress for the rest of the group)

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3 minutes ago, Makemap said:

1. Complete Sortie 5 times per week is way too much. It should be turned into a two week mission or have it reduced to 3 times max. You only get like 2 days off from sortie because you have other things to do. Also this doesn't include half a week to be able to catch up due to not being on.

2. 60 min Kuva survival needs to be reduced to 40 min. Any Survival missions should be reduced to 40 min max because it takes you to lvl 100+ which most players can't do without potatoed weapons or frames. 1 hour is too long.

3. Rare mine and Rare fishing challenge needs to include uncommon. There needs to be a specification of rare resources on codex. New players cannot mine rare ores in Cetus due to being locked behind standing requirements. Same with fishes in Cetus.

if u log on before they change, u can literally do sorties back to back, out of 7 days u have to log on and do 40 mins of sorties for 5 days, witch will complete meany other challenges, not all elite missions need to be done to get to 30 ether 

a large amount of players dont do sorties, and half of those that do them cant even complete them by themselves 

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

if u log on before they change, u can literally do sorties back to back, out of 7 days u have to log on and do 40 mins of sorties, witch will complete meany other challenges, not all elite missions need to be done to get to 30

What if you are on vacation or have no time to log on for 3 days. It is guarantee miss because you are force to play everyday. Sortie can't be done multiple times a day.

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the nightwave is a great step to get more active in the game and do stuff you have forgotten or you dont know its there, you get to play the game and get great stuff,  i agree on giving more options and more weeklies to the players, give more for everyone , give easy tasks , give hard tasks , give very challenging tasks. anyone can say give more or give less always someone will complain about something. listen only to constructive critisism that is based not to personal opinions but on game facts. this is boring is not an option, for me its not boring for you it is. So boring is not a term to be consider or worth considering. Just give more options to players with more choices in the weeklies so any skill can get their piece of the pie. Its for sure that high skill will always preveil so anything you give to high skill players will be consumed asap. For example more eidolos and orbs in weeklies. Spy missions. Fast missions time limits. nightmare modes, etc

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ayatan challenge - exploration and treasure hunting, LIKE.
Survival challenge - so long, boring,  DISLIKE.
Friend challenge - make some friends, LIKE.

thats all

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I only started playing Warframe about 4 months ago (a few weeks before Baruuk released iirc), but at this point I'm able to comfortably do sorties and arbitrations, so I hope I'm in a good position to provide feedback as someone for whom the elite weeklies are aimed at but who still remembers what being a newbie was like under the old alerts system. Overall, I like the concept; I like the sense of agency of being able to work towards what I want instead of waiting for my gaming schedule to align with the right alert. I like that I'm being encouraged to try out stuff that I otherwise wouldn't have. I have issues with the rate of progression, but these are just numbers and numbers are much easier to tweak.

Wolf creds/newbie items

A lot of people are saying that newbies could get stuff faster under the old alerts system, but this is offset by the sheer randomness of the alerts. For example, in terms of auras, I was able to get ~60% of the alert auras pretty quickly, but then it became a frustrating waiting game for the last few, including a few important ones like Corrosive Projection and Loot Detector. And in terms of potatoes, I only got maybe 2 potatoes total under the old system after 4 months, not counting guaranteed ones like Gift of the Lotus, because so many of them would pop up while I was at work. With Nightwave, as long as I hit rank 11 and buy another potato with wolf creds, I'll already have broken even.

Currently, the cost of potatoes seems high, but I'm willing to reserve judgement to the end of season to see how many wolf creds people earn on average. Nitain seems reasonably priced, seeing how most newbie friendly weapons don't require it. Those would be fine, if wolf creds were only used for potatoes and nitain. However, the cost of auras is definitely too high, considering that they're competing with potatoes and nitain for creds, and Nightwave is delaying a new player's first aura by far too much. A bad aura now is much more important than an aura of your choice weeks down the line for a new player, considering that they need all the modding capacity they can get. Either make auras much cheaper, or better yet include auras alongside tier rewards (so a tier reward could become 50 wolf creds plus an aura of your choice, for example). This is essentially invisible to vets, but super important for newbies. Ideally, you should be able to earn most of the auras within a full ~3-month Nightwave season, which I think is a reasonable ask. In fact, I think most of the one-time-use items from the old alerts (auras, helmets, weapons) should either cost much less wolf creds or be attainable separately from wolf creds. Currently it feels like you need to "do your homework" and complete your collection of auras, weapons and helmets before buying consumables.

Also, it will be nice to have smaller injections of wolf creds besides the bigger 50s at certain tiers. Maybe have a couple creds for every weekly, or 10 cred for every tier, just to give a more consistent sense of progression and alleviate that feeling of "I just need 5 more cred to buy that thing, but the next wolf cred tier is 2 weeks away".

Challenges

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I actually like most of the challenges thus far. I like the idea of incentivising players to try parts of the game they've never tried before or haven't tried in a long time. For example, I had only recently started doing teralyst hunts, but the hydrolyst challenge pushed me into dipping my toes into tricaps, and now I do 2x3s in public games semi-regularly. That was the ideal scenario, where I was 90% of the way there and the challenge gave me the nerve to actually do it, and it will be good to give new players something to work towards rather than shy away whenever they see something foreign in the elite weeklies. I suggest that elite weeklies be made to last an entire season, so that newbies have something to work towards. After all, seeing "complete a sortie by the end of the season" instead of "by the end of the week" is more aspirational than soul-crushing.

Also, there's a constant sense of anxiety within the community right now because people aren't sure whether they can hit max rank given their current Nightwave progression. There's constant argument between "I don't want to feel pressured by challenges that I hate/can't do at my current level" and "if you don't like it then just skip it, you don't need everything to get rank 30". Honestly, I can't give feedback regarding whether the Nightwave standing rewards should be increased or not because even I don't know exactly how much I could theoretically skip right now. I think having greater clarity for players to make their own choices should be the top priority. Maybe have a weekly quota bar that says that if you can hit this amount weekly, then you'll be guaranteed to reach max rank, or have a class of easier challenges called "staples" that will guarantee rank 30, and then have all other challenges be bonuses.

Rewards

I think most of the rewards from the tiers are pretty cool and interesting. Weapon/Warframe slots, forma and potatoes are always welcome, especially for new players. 20k kuva is a nice meaty chunk to get, whether or not you usually dabble in kuva farming. The weapon augment mods look amazing, and are honestly what I'm most looking forward to right now. And all the wolf-themed cosmetics seem great too. However right now, as I mentioned before, people feel like it's rank 30 or bust. This feeling might be alleviated somewhat if the current 30 ranks were split up into more manageable chunks. Maybe take the 3 most iconic event-themed items (maybe the armour, syandana and wolf howl emote for this season) and let players choose between them at ranks 10, 20 and 30. In a similar vein we could also let players choose between one of the weapon augments at ranks 9, 19 and 29 (for example). That way, players can set smaller goals for themselves rather than being daunted by the sheer climb from 0 to 30, and players who are either too busy or too new to the game can still get something uniquely seasonal out of the season.

 

Overall, in spite of my criticisms, I feel that Nightwave sets up a solid foundation to replace alerts in the future, but it's not where it needs to be right now, especially for new players. In time, with enough number tweaking, I could see it becoming great, but as of right now I think that the new player experience is worse right now than it was with the old alerts. For that reason, I'm looking forward to season 2.

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13 minutes ago, Makemap said:

What if you are on vacation or have no time to log on for 3 days. It is guarantee miss because you are force to play everyday. Sortie can't be done multiple times a day.

I would say this is a  VERY valid point. People who don't play during vacation periods or for college students, exam periods (who need to study) will effectively be denied access to the later stages of ranks. It's in some ways a very exclusionist type of system, but whereas you missed one alert you were watching for one day, this costs you weeks worth of grind if your real life obligations cut you short from reaching whatever rank award you were hoping for.

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I enjoyed the 60m kuva mission. It was a change of pace for once and got me pumped. 🙂 It was a lot of fun!

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I'm enjoying the Nightwave challenges. I'm not that a veteran player or a high level.

I guess only have few suggestions.

1. To add 1 or 2 more daily challenge. Everytime I finish a daily task, it feels anticlimatic. Don't get me wrong. I know there are a lot things to do for a day (Daily Syndicates, Sorties, etc.) It's just that I'm so stoked or hooked with the Nightwave tier rewards I'd like to do more. (setting aside the weekly and elites) It kinda feels empty that you can do no more after finishing the daily challenge but to hope you encounter more Fugitives in your missions while waiting for a new daily.

2. To have a degree or level for one challenge. Let's say the 5 Sortie weekly challenge. Not all can do that since some only have two days a week to play. Suggesting to make a minimum of 2 sortie to complete and earn the standing. Then 5 sortie will give more reward like a few wolf creds or additional standings. Like the endurance challenge. Complete a 30min run. Then additional reward if completed an hour.

 

By the way, for this week's elite, I accidentally completed the "Finish an extermination without being seen." random squad do the killing while I was lagging behind. Awesome. 😄

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40 minutes ago, Makemap said:

1. Complete Sortie 5 times per week is way too much. It should be turned into a two week mission or have it reduced to 3 times max. You only get like 2 days off from sortie because you have other things to do. Also this doesn't include half a week missed to be able to catch up due to not being on.

Fair enough. 5x is really a pain although it just takes about 20 mins a day.

40 minutes ago, Makemap said:

2. 60 min Kuva survival needs to be reduced to 40 min. Any Survival missions should be reduced to 40 min max because it takes you to lvl 100+ which most players can't do without potatoed weapons or frames. 1 hour is too long.

You shouldn't be bringing guns with no catalysts or frames with no reactor to long survivals. It's generally not nice if you end up being baggage. You should be using stuff that is near max for these, or play the Limbo and you get to use lousier weapons.

That being said, this is not completely invalid, but the main issue is with possible Host Migration.

43 minutes ago, Makemap said:

3. Rare mine and Rare fishing challenge needs to include uncommon. There needs to be a specification of rare resources on codex. New players cannot mine rare ores in Cetus due to being locked behind standing requirements. Same with fishes in Cetus.

The sunspot drill in Fortuna works for Cetus rares. There is no real reason to get Nosam cutters, actually.

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Ok so giving us the Clem Mission challenge 7 hours after the new one is put up is just horrible. What are the point who did the mission before the challenge went up supposed to do?

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The rep and wolf cred system seem disconnected. Despite them being earned from the same place. Might be a good idea to tie these two systems together in a more coherent way. 

Also the problem with the alert system was that it was the only way to get potatoes and such. The nightwave system is good for having a consistent method for working towards them. However the alerts had a place for new players. I think both systems could exist simultaneously. 

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I'm thoroughly enjoying nightwave, I think it's a great addition to the game. It gives me a direction when I play after work instead of doing the usual Sortie, Rep, Kuva then repeat next day.

A few improvements that could be made in my opinion would be that the things that you can purchase with wolf creds is a bit underwhelming to more veteran players. The only real useful thing would be potatoes. The ayatan challenge wasn't too bad the first week there but if it gets run again anytime soon I dont think Id be able to complete it, the drop rate for amber stars is too low and no one is selling them incase the challenge comes up again.

I really like the rewards for the rankings, the mods, kuva, forma, slots, armour are all really practical, I know i will for sure be working my hardest to get that armour bundle. 

Just wanted to say thank you DE, Warframe has been my go to game for the past two years and you guys have not disappointed with content, I've never been so in love with a video game before

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49 minutes ago, AKTKWNG said:

Maybe take the 3 most iconic event-themed items (maybe the armour, syandana and wolf howl emote for this season) and let players choose between them at ranks 10, 20 and 30. In a similar vein we could also let players choose between one of the weapon augments at ranks 9, 19 and 29 (for example). That way, players can set smaller goals for themselves rather than being daunted by the sheer climb from 0 to 30, and players who are either too busy or too new to the game can still get something uniquely seasonal out of the season

This is a great suggestion! Never woulda thought of that

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I kind of like the idea of the Nightwave system, though fixes should be added. The harder difficulty missions should remain and Devs should actually add longer survival runs, because there "are" players who do these vs those who are unable to do them due to life choices; they shouldn't be punished for that. So; 

  1. Keep Survival runs with no Life Support from, at least, 20-30 minutes with 1,500 (20 Minutes) or 2000 (30 Minutes) rep; this should increase depending on the difficulty of Survival Missions, Saturn Vs Kuva, Vs Void, etc.
  2. Keep Survival at or above 1 hour - 2 hours with 5000 -7000 rep; this should increase depending on the difficulty of Survival Missions, Saturn Vs Kuva, Vs Void, etc.
  3. Keep Defense at 10 Waves minimal 2000 rep; this should increase depending on the difficulty of Defense Missions, Earth, Mars etc.
  4. Keep Defense at 30 -40 Waves minimal 6000 rep; this should increase depending on the difficulty of Defense Missions, Earth, Mars etc.
  5. Interception 2 waves for 1,000 rep or 10 waves + , maybe a limit (20) with 8000 rep; this should increase depending on the difficulty of Interception Missions.

So forth should be fix with other missions adding in more missions for daily rewards for Archwing, gathering on PoE, or Venus, or doing other things such as getting "Nitan" from missions, Extraction missions, Extractor for # of planets, killing X amount of corpus or etc. What players are being rewarded from at the shop they already have due to their time in Warframe, so adding unique ones for Veteran players and keep some for newer ones balance it out such as newer mods, unique fashion frame, newer weapons, relics, etc. Also, keep the Sorti mission the way it is. 

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+ Nightwave has gotten me to play mission types and gameplay I don't otherwise do.

+ Most of the challenges get completed while just playing as I usually do.

+ Challenges are clear in describing what is required and you get feedback on progress in mission.

- RNG based challenges. Example: slot X amount of ayatan sculptures, if you don't keep a stockpile it can take you hours to get the necessary amount of sculptures.

- Time sensitive challenges. Example: capture X amount of Eidolons, if your play window does not match with Plains of Exile night time you won't get to complete these.

- Long non-stop challenges. Example: 60 minute survival essentially has you sit in one tile, so as not to break the spawns, with a metasquad while watching entertainment on second display.

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I think the Nightwave system is a great addition to the game and much more interesting than the older alert system. It has encouraged me to check out parts of the game I had been neglecting until now such as the PoE and the Vallis, as well as getting clan members to help show me some of the other things I hadn't tried like Sorties and Kuva Survival.

However, I have felt these first two weeks a particular grind for me as a relatively new player (MR10) as I've needed to unlock certain things to try and get as much standing as I can so I don't miss out on any rewards. I'm particularly concerned if there is a week were I am too busy with IRL things that I may fall too far behind. I think adding in an additional 2-3 weekly missions for 3000 rep would be beneficial for people to not feel so pressured to get most things done every week for 10 weeks straight. Also adding in some extra Wolf Cred rewards would be beneficial. So far I've been hesitant to spend any as I don't know how much I'll earn over the 10 week period and don't want to spend it on something and realise later that I need something else.

Overall though, I've been having heaps of fun with Nightwave and hope the system sticks around.

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Have two options that essentially boil down to "longer group-based content" and "Shorter session time solo mode" and let the players choose which experience they would like to play for that week.

I gotta say I really enjoyed the 60 minute survivals and the play with friends missions gave me another good reason to be like "hey friend lets do this mission together!"

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First of all i find nightwave to be an amazing System it gives you stuff to do and makes you play gamemodes you dont do often. 

In response to the survival acts i think that these are good additons to nightwave because for me at least it was challenging and that was fun. Making a build for an Endurance run was fun to do and i think you should keep it.

elite weekly Acts should be challenging and this is a good step in the right Direction. If you as a Player do not like to do long survivals than don‘t do it

it‘s as simple as that you do not have to do all challenges to get to Tier 30.

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Quick idea that may have already been said but I'm not searching this whole thread for it:

Have choices for challenges.

For example: right now there are 3 elite weekly challenges, but what if there were 6 and only 3 of them count towards ranking up? This would help address the fact that some of the challenges that people hate are beloved by others (like endurance runs). Also, it would help keep elite challenges 'elite' since different forms of difficulty could be represented so people don't feel like they're missing out if a particular challenge is too grindy for them. Also, the challenges mentioned, like ayatan stuff, could still exist without a problem since you could get the standing from other challenges if you have problems getting sculptures, or whatever the challenge is.

And one other criticism that is likely common: wolf cred is obtained far too infrequently. there needs to be a more consistent source of cred. 50 at a time at a few select ranks makes the cred store feel almost unusable. 

(maybe make the additional challenges in my given scenario award cred instead of standing?)

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