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[DE]Bear

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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Two things:

Wolf credits needs to be distributed in a more frequent fashion, perhaps every standing level or have them drop from the Wolf and his minions. For the sake of new players this needs to happen because as it stands them being able to get the items is now going to take longer than it did before with RNG alerts.

Second thing is the Wolf needs to spawn more frequently or become a guaranteed spawn perhaps after capturing a certain amount of his underlings. I have not had him spawn once after quite a few hours of play. 

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Posted (edited)

Let me be clear- I really enjoy warframe, its a great game and I have happily invested quite a bit of time and money in it since becoming apart of this great community. However, I have honestly found the Nightwave series to be extremely frustrating to play and the logic behind the system frustrating. What I've found has been provided with these weeklies and their often problematic time sensitive requirements is a 10 week long temp job with out a road map. I think it would be helpful to consider having all challenges for the ten week period available from the beginning and then work with the community to tweak issues here and there rather than dropping a new framework of challenges every week.

Surprises can be nice at first but too much cake can be bad thing. I for one do not like checking in on a monday or sunday to find a challenge that literally demands a daily portion of my life for the next week (time is money, and depending on how you want to see it that is ALOT of money) - I understand that part of this might be a ploy to increase player count but warframe is not competitive - unlike the typical more common version battle pass model that is being applied here. The variables that a player must consider for a BR game(apex, blackout, fortnite, etc) are far smaller than the large expansive content of a game like warframe and tend to be particularly limited to instances of "did I win or not" with rewards and tiers being given to the player or players accordingly.

Following this logic every match within these mentioned games will net you a reward or push you closer to unlocking a new tier, and so on and so forth. The equivalent of this system isn't currently being applied to the Nightwave mission structure and I find that therein lies its biggest problem. Warframe does not typically dictate  a "right" way in which its player base must engage and for myself and I imagine many others it is part of that which makes it so appealing. I don't understand why Nightwave shouldn't just be formatted to allow players to gain rewards for playing the game in whatever manner they typically do. If a player really enjoys playing spy missions as an Ash or Loki why not reward them for their playstyle, rather than forcing them to learn to main a nekros in an hour long survival. To me that just sounds like work, not a challenge and certainly not fun. That being said I do find that there is a lot of potential in this battle pass model, but I think it needs to be tailored to fit the beautiful diverse network of people who play this game. Thanks for reading. 

 

Best,

Oren Gruffs

Edited by (NSW)Oren_Gruffs
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Along with most of the stuff already mentioned, another way to earn the cred or have more intervals to earn cred throughout the ranks, cuz boy is it slow and far in-between.

 

Either way, love the whole late night radio vibe put on for something as simple as a list of challenges and can't wait to see how things span out from here.

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System is pretty solid as is, there's enough wiggle room to skip stuff that looks awful (perfect hunts and long survivals) and still get the rewards, but that's probably not obvious to a lot of people and they feel twitchy about skipping stuff because they don't want to miss that shiny forma.  If there was some good clear way to show that you've gotten X standing out of Y possible for the week and the series AND show how much is still possible in following weeks so you can tell that you're still on target it might help.  Challenge variety is great though - I'd skipped Lua puzzles forever and that was fun.  I skipped the 60m survival but thought it was a good idea even if it was probably too long.  Doing stuff with friends/clan had gotten me to meet some new folks. 

I get how the system isn't totally friendly for newer players who don't have access to a bunch of stuff, so maybe there can be an alternative method/weekly alerts for getting build necessities like nitain that are available to everyone.  Or just make it a planet drop.

Also agreed on wolf spawning, it'd be cool if frequency was tied to captures.  As it stands I still haven't seen him and probably never will.

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I think that we should give some coins everytime when we ranked up(maybe 10?).Before we have 4 Nitain everyday in alarms.Although some of us may only get one everyday.But now we must ranked up for 5 times(50k prestige) to get only 50 coins.That's so bad for someone who want Nitain to make item.By the way,i think the price of the item should be changed as well.That's all i can see in my view.Thank you.

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Nightwave adds nothing to the game that was not already in the game, it only takes away options for how to play or earn rewards.

Things like kuva survival challenges are already in the game if you enjoy it play it, don't force people to play it. Do you like to play with friends? ok, you already can. No need to force others. Do you like riven challenges like silent exterminte, already in the game, go play whenever you like. Sorties, in, the, game.

I enjoy all of the above also but when I want to do, doing it just to check of a checklist is pointless. If I currently don't need any resorce or reward from the activity why force just for nightwave?

Now you also get teammates in the game that only play for the daily or weekly challenge. They don't give any thought to the mission, they only want to complete their challenge. This also leads to trolling griefers haveing a more 'fun' time because they can do more harm, players not equiped and ready for sorties, AFK players and just more bad feelings between players that was not present in game before nightwave.

Nightwave elite challenges are not hard or challenging except the 7 day timelimit makes them difficult to do for 10 weeks.

Then the players or warframe partners, streamers not affected by the new system belitteling the conserns of those that are affected just shows how bad it is.

I do not want all rewards for free or instantly, I have thousands of hours spent on this game across different platforms. I just want to be able to play the game on my on time like I could before Nightwave. You can make the grind 10 times more I don't care but don't take away my options on how to play the game. I could write more but english is not my native language so it is hard to convey my thoughts on this new 'reward' system.

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Posted (edited)

(Sorry about my english it's not my native language)

I'm pretty happy with the actual system I don't understand why are people so mad about it. It gives goals and it encourages players to do activities less popular and it's great for new players. I'm thinking about lua mods right now.

Yeah k 1h survival isn't thrilling and more so with limitations like 'Don't activate life support' because mistakes/trolls are real but still it was one challenge, it's not the end of the world.

I don't understand the hate for challenges like 'play with a clanmate or a friend' lol anyway we have to be in a clan for the dojo, if you can't find clanmates, and don't have friend (well first think about finding another clan or about recruiting...) , look for friends in recruitement chat.

What I don't like it's the fugitives capture, it's ok 20 times but now I can't stand it anymore I'm ignoring them ...

Edited by Individualisme

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Pls add some warframe/weapon specific challenges (the closest example I can provide - weapon challenges from DOOM 2016 - they were super fun and required some amount of skill)

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I don't know how many Chinese players reply to this threads here, so I will just put some feedbacks from my clan here.

Conclusion is, almost everyone did not like this system, in some big Chinese fan sites, this is even cosidered as a big reason to give up this game.

And the reason is:

first, for old players, they don't really like the rewards as they almost have every mods they want, and they already build everything that needs Nitain Extract. So...they won't say it's not attractive, but they still have tons of other things to do.

second, most importantly, it's terrible for new beginners, for those users that needs every mods in the reward pool, I got every blueprints now for Ivara, but I can't build it because I don't have Nitain Extract, and I am a totally new beginners to the game, for the first two weeks of this night wave, I can only finish half of the missions, which give me only 50 credits to exchange some rewards, and I can only spend them on mods, in another words, I think I need another one month I can have enough coins to exchange some Nitain Extract which makes me impossible to build Ivara in the next coming month...this feels completely crazy, and it can easily be done by old alert system in one or two weeks.

last, fugitives are extremly crazy for beginners, I saw some guys just wandering in early earth missions repeatly killed by fugitives, I won't say it's a pleasant feeling for new comers that are still not used to the games.

The opinions in our clan is that we will like this night wave if we can still have some other ways to obtain those crital resources for the game(Nitain Extracts and MODs) or the rewards can be something that a user can choose and can benifit both new guys and old players. Some one suggest that you can make those crital stuff as additional rewards in those elite weekly missions. 

Well, this is all I want to state, thank you.

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I love the ideas and activities behind them but feel that some may be a little to much (pointing at the hour long survivals). I think some of the more long/hard activities could be half'd but I love what they are making me go do. Some examples is making the survival 30min instead of a hour, 3 sculptures instead of 5, 3 sorties instead of 5, 5 perfect captures instead of 10, ETC. I think most of these are pretty fair and this is a minor complaint/critic but I certainly feel the majority of people don't go into the hard core end game grinding that would make some of these much more do able and therefore I think some lenience on the difficulty should be considered (mostly the hour survival).

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Posted (edited)

People who can only play on weekends got screwed with the 5 sortie challenge.

Stop trying to push daily commitments on your playerbase, it'll only burn them out.
This isn't a job, it's supposed to be entertainment AFAIK. Let us play it when WE want to.

Quote

It’s better to have your players leave your game happy...if they leave happy...they will always come back.

...but if they're exhausted from the daily logins, they'll give up eventually.

And no, I don't think "but it's free" is a good argument here.
Being free is not an excuse anymore, not in today's market, with so much competition.

Also I hold DE to a higher standard than the rest of the F2P (and not only F2P) industry because I believe they're better than that, and more importantly willing to listen.

Edited by Shifted
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Posted (edited)

8 times bounties are too much like a tedious grind already. Which is my current biggest concern of nightwave, due to this repetitive most of people would only do the lowest bounties to swift pass it. Instead of which means any accomplishment of its completion.

 

Here is a example, that design its battle pass for different type of players.

Players can complete them all but they also have options of pick what they can most fit to their game play to reach final goal.

KQbcBui.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by Scarletwing
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I think the Challenges so far have been fine however they do need some tweaking .

Ive seen a lot of complaints about the kuva survival but it really was not that bad considering that you could easily be carried but people need to remember that it was an elite weekly. That challenge worked because we would be walking away with kuva and rep . i have no problem with long runs like that as long as there is another incentive besides just 5k rep.  

The fIll 5 ayatan was another on that ive heard complaints about , imo the only thing wrong about it is that its was not an elite weekly. The way i see it elite weekly challenges  should be targeted towards players who have completed the star chart . Id also like the see the elite weekly challenges be more of a tests of an individuals skill and understanding about the games mechanics rather than being able to be carried (like the kuva surv mentioned above).

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Posted (edited)

In Fortnite's Battle Pass system, which Steve and a bunch of y'all have stated was the basis/inspiration of Nightwave, Battle Pass challenges remain if you don't finish them on the week that they unlock. This, I think, is a very important thing to consider when looking into Nightwave Series 2.

One of the major complaints of the alert system is that it had a Pay 2 Sleep mentality to it, with them inherently being time limited. The new system, while an improvement, doesn't really fix that. People's schedules are busy, and many can't afford to commit the whole 10 weeks of a Nightwave series, thus making skipping out on around 2 weeks of content a real bummer. Pay 2 Sleep has really shifted into Snooze, U Lose. If every challenge (at least the Elite Weeklies, since they're hardcore challenges for many, just inaccessible for newbies) was accessible for the whole series time, it would take a lot of weight off of the player to log on everyday. I understand that player retention is important, but Nightwave either makes people that can't log on consistently feel like garbage, or enables an unhealthy routine of never closing Warframe and casting aside real priorities.

Also, I would probably consider upping the amount of Nightwave Cred that is available in the reward tiers rather than pushing them into prestige levels, as Steve has told us. A lot of people won't make it to those prestige levels. Everybody needs Nitain Extract & Potatoes to build new Frames, beginners need those sword blueprints for MR or a fun weapon to try out, people that want to Fashionframe need those helmets to make their frames look cool. The current Wolf Cred distribution is so unrewarding that Platinum farming for the items in the Cred Offering pool (other than the exclusives) is a better option. When 1/4 of the reward tree's Wolf Cred goes to ONE potato, there's an issue.

Edited by SparklyPrince
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On 2019-03-04 at 1:47 PM, [DE]Bear said:

So at first pass, we are seeing some concerns rise to the top:

  • Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.
  • Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.
  • Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

I personally do not think that any of the Nightwave challenges have been an issue. 

The only issue I have is the with the "quantity" of the some of the challenges (do "8" bounties, fill "5" ayatans, etc.). 

Just fine-tuning some of the quantitative aspects, in my opinion, would solve the issue completely. The actual qualitative nature of the challenges is great. 

The truth is that you will never be able to please all players. New players will complain about not having access to some challenges due to their skill level/completion, while the veteran players will complain about having to do meaningless stuff that only benefit new players. There's no way to please them all. It almost seems like at times, some people just don't like playing the game/are only interested in rewards, and I think that's a problem because it represents an entire generation of Tenno who have an incredibly mercenary mentality. 

Nightwave still hasn't finished obviously by the time of this post, but I don't think there is an issue with any of challenges. I think you guys (DE) have a good sense of what needs to be done. Nightwave has given me, a fairly experienced player (2k+ hours in the game) a sense of direction. A lot of content I ignored is being brought back to my attention (and enjoyment), which is resulting in me gaining greater mastery of the game overall. 

I think that the players who are complaining about stuff (esp the 1 hour survival complainers) are just people who are, frankly, lazy. They don't want to get challenged by a game. They don't want to work for anything. They don't want to interact with the community or make friends. They just want to "have fun", whatever that means...the truth is that Warframe is a challenging game, and it is very opaque at times, and it can be frustrating and overly grindy. I still get mad at the game sometimes. There's still certain mechanics/systems that I don't agree with. But that doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the sense of challenge. 

My end point is: DE, keep up the good work. It's important to listen to the community, but please don't listen to the lazies who just want everything to be easy. And don't listen to the jaded vets either who are only interested in endgame content. Keep it balanced; my suggestion is to just adjust the quantitative aspects of the challenges. Make it 3 sculptures instead of 5. Make it 4 bounties instead of 8. Make it 40 minutes of survival instead of 60. Stuff like that. Keep people invested in the core game. And if the core game has grown stale, then improve it. But don't listen to the complainers and naysayers who are only interested in rewards and aren't loyal to/interested in playing the core game. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Im enjoying all the content Nightwave has brought so far, my one main gripe so far...really, anyone complaining about the 1hr survival...I enjoy it, I know others who enjoy it, yes we could use a bit more for what time we put in, but I like it. It encourages people to see more than just 5 or 10 mins...speaking of which, I personally think anyone complaining about something that caters to endurance runners, are just part of the bite sized community. Thats all I have been seeing, people complaining about the survival challenge because they are used to spending 5 mins in, or dont have time....lie, you just dont want to put in the work. Not all of us enjoy that, some of us enjoy a challenge, and Kuva survival is that challenge for some of us. I can understand some struggling with getting a friend or two to help with it, but come on, there is a recruit tab, or get some friends off your friends list (ps4 player) who also play the game. As rude as this came off ((because someone will get triggered)) I do not hold ill will to anyone, just to the bite sized community.

Edited by (PS4)ErydisTheLucario
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25 minutes ago, METAHUMVN said:

Nightwave still hasn't finished obviously by the time of this post, but I don't think there is an issue with any of challenges. I think you guys (DE) have a good sense of what needs to be done. Nightwave has given me, a fairly experienced player (2k+ hours in the game) a sense of direction. A lot of content I ignored is being brought back to my attention (and enjoyment), which is resulting in me gaining greater mastery of the game overall. 

This is the good part of Nightwave, of course. 

BUT

I definitely agree with all people saying that time gated stuff in a game like WF is simply nonsense. I can accept a (recurring) event here and there, that's ok (such as plague star, buried debts, acolytes, etc.) but the core of the entire alert system now it's a complete mess to me. Yesterday I play wf only to end the acts of WOSS. That was *a monumental bore*, some hours that I would like to have spent farming kuva, relics, forma and testing some weapons and so on..

Please DE, adjust/rethink this complete nonsense of time-gating alerts. This is the kind of stuff that makes me think of simply give up the game after 1800 hours invested...

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Hello, DE staff.

I have to admit weekly challenges in warframe are much more enjoyable than in some other online games due to variety and menu accessibility. Great job!

As a veteran, I did enjoy the lengthy and challenging mission of 60 minutes of kuva survival. Wasn't the most difficult mission for me but I assume it may be extremely challenging to other players who don't have a selection of maxed out warframes and weapons. Still, please add a single tough challenge like that every week. While dailies and most other weeklies are a matter of grind or doing a specific thing, I only think it is reasonable to have a tough challenge for those players who have achieved alot already and would rather play a challenging mission than do more grind. It feels really good to complete a tough mission and get something extra as a reward. And honestly when warframe becomes too grindy I just put it aside and wait till the next update or event, and I know alot of other high rank players have the same attitude. I would love to play this game more and to have a higher variety of challenges like that one.Especially given that it's not something consistent and changes on weekly basis.

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Personally I find that it lacks scripted missions, which develops Wolf.

We have a boss who knows nothing about him, why he was detained, why we fight him. There is no background.

And I feel frustrated that I can not face it. Give the opportunity to face him more often or on a mission that an object buy with the chips.

Sorry for my english that must be horrible

Thanks for reading.

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My only sincere complaint is that Wolf Creds are few and far between.

There should be some way of trading standing for wolf cred.

That or, more appropriately, since the Nightwave system so heavily compares to Cetus and Fortuna bounties, there should be a resource we can gather to trade for wolf cred.

Nightwave comm fragments or some type of radio-wave-emitting ore; I'm sure someone else could come up with something to call it.

Or barring that, as someone else mentioned, make wolf cred something earned per goal completed, in addition to standing, in small amounts. [Say, 5 creds per every 1k standing that the mission gives? So max of 25 creds for a 5k-standing mission.]

Also, maybe adjust the mission levels to suit the MR of the player?

That way there could be some Elite missions specifically for lower and higher MR levels, say 3 or so Elite missions within your MR range, and you aren't eligible to do ones above or below your MR so that higher ranks can't abuse it for too-easy creds?

My suggestion on how to divvy up the various ranges, is from MR 0 to 5 being low range, 6 to 10 being mid-range, and 11+ being considered high range, just as a starting graph...

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36 minutes ago, METAHUMVN said:

 

I think that the players who are complaining about stuff (esp the 1 hour survival complainers) are just people who are, frankly, lazy. They don't want to get challenged by a game. They don't want to work for anything. They don't want to interact with the community or make friends. They just want to "have fun", whatever that means...the truth is that Warframe is a challenging game, and it is very opaque at times, and it can be frustrating and overly grindy. I still get mad at the game sometimes. There's still certain mechanics/systems that I don't agree with. But that doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the sense of challenge. 

 

 

Games by definition can be played for fun or competitively you don't have to choose. Playing warframe (a game) is literally an act of leisure, a means of relaxation and escape for many people who have important real world responsibilities. Its inane to call someone lazy because they cant use hours of their lives for very very little reward. Try comparing the amount of reward you get for playing several hours of Devil May Cry 5 (a challenging game) to the rewards you get for playing in warframe and the problem becomes extremely apparent. One system values and rewards players time and commitment and the other doesn't. "Fun" isnt a dirty word, and your community isnt Lazy, they just value their time and happiness. 

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I've found Nightwave to be like Riven Unveiling criteria, often doable, usually fun but then sometimes really difficult and asking too much of me.

I just do the ones I can, and hope I'll have enough to advance through the phases. 

In short, I think you're doing it right - I like that WF and Weapon slots are earnable as a reward without Platinum now, and again... I just hope that the 1,000 points and 3,000 points challenges will be enough becauses I guess I'm not 'elite'.

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My main issue with Nightwave is the time limited nature of it. I can live with the occasional operation weekend but this seems to be a permanent thing. One of the main reasons I stuck around these past five years is that I could pursue goals at my own pace. I think the Nightwave system is pretty cool by itself, but I want to log in and play because I enjoy playing not because the game says I have to or I can't have this shiny stuff. It just puts me off the whole thing. When I start to feel pushed to play content that I don't enjoy or to play when I don't feel like it or don't have time is the time when I start looking at other games. For me personally I have noticed a level of stress associated with logging in that wasn't there before.

As for the challenges themselves I think that if you didn't feel forced to complete them all (or as many as you can) there wouldn't be as big of a problem with tasks that don't appeal to all players.

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Posted (edited)

Coming to Warframe from other GaaS titles, last year, was a total breath of fresh air. A lifestyle shooter, which didn't tell me how, or when, to play. I could set my own goals, work at my own pace, and never feel like I'd missed out. Sure - there were alerts that I'd miss, but they came around often enough that eventually, I'd get what I needed, anyway.

Nightwave completely ruined that feel.

It's quite literally the, "kill 200 boars in the forest, before you can play the game" rubbish that I left titles like Destiny to get away from. I'm Cartman, or Stan, and don't get to do the stuff I want to do each session, until I've done my chores o_0

While I do have plenty of time to complete the challenges, they're boring, menial, and purely for the purpose of stopping me from playing a competitor's game, alongside Warframe, for fear of missing out on loot in this one. Time dilation, purely for the purpose of extending player engagement over a multi-month period.

Warframe doesn't need that. Nightwave absolutely could have been an alert replacement that didn't have expiring challenges, that didn't have a running engagement meter, and that didn't have currencies that expired at the end of the season. Warframe is a fun game, that calls you back to it, because it's so fun. It didn't need bribery mechanics.

I've spent close to USD$150 on Warframe since joining the game in October, last year. I chose to do so, because the game offered me time-respectful entertainment, at a quality easily equal to that of traditional time-abusive triple-A GaaS titles. The devs seem passionate, fun, and constantly mock other titles in the industry for using hard-sell tactics.

So much for that.

If Warframe continues on this path of time-abusive, menial tasks, (see the current thermia event, for example,) I'll save my cash for someone else's product.

My suggestions for improving the player side Nightwave experience:

  • remove the timer on all challenges, and allow the player to complete them, as and when they can, across the season. That will require a greater range of challenges, sure, but will also force development to come up with something more constructive than, "use x element," or "open x number of containers." Rivens managed it. Nightwave can too.
  • remove all "play with a clan/friend" challenges. If the game isn't PUG viable, it should be a subscription service, period. You can't deep dive on clan/friendship interaction when the majority of your playerbase aren't engaged to that level. It only fosters resentment within the community. (See the great player exodus from Destiny 2 when Bungie listened to streamers, who wanted it 'hardcore.')
  • reduce the repetitions on challenges that require daily logins, such as sorties - some people have jobs that don't allow them regular play sessions, who binge on specific days instead.
  • never add a power curve item as important and significant as umbral forma to a seasonal event, without making it incredibly clear that a) alternative ways of obtaining this item exist, and that b) those alternative methods are nothing like as time-abusive.

That's the constructive stuff. My gut feeling? Scrap the whole thing and go back to alerts, until you can come up with something better.

Fortuna part 1 and 2 were interesting, exciting, and engaging. That's the kind of content you need to be looking at. Not bribery mechanics, and loot anxiety.

Edit: PS. Nora's voice lines are just as irritating, ridiculous, and insulting as Tess Everis' Eververse PR. I am not, "being true to myself," by mining and fishing in content I had no intention of touching again until I wanted some more Arcanes made, thx.

Edited by ninemil
Voice actress exasperation.
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