Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[simplygnome]

1 minute ago, TheRealShade said:

That could get fixed if we had multiple options for each challenge. "Catch 5 rare fish OR kill 5 wildlife with a fishing spear" as an example, give players both alternatives.

Agreed.  A larger variety of tasks to complete would help shift the chore/forced gameplay feel.

[TheStarGazer]

Le 04/03/2019 à 22:47, [DE]Bear a dit :

Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.

You can segment it or integrate bonus, like "Do a total of 60 min of survival + you get standing bonus if you stay the whole 60min" or "Farm X Cryotics, get a bonus if you do all in one session" That way everyone can do it, and people who wants a bit more challenge can go for the bonus standing.

You could add a global challenge as well, like "Help capturing X prisoners" (or anything related to what the next nightwaves will be) with additional loots or standing as reward (cosmetics related to the event for example)

About the friends/clan challenge, make it so that lonely cowboy with 1 man clan can complete it, for those that don't have friends or didn't create a clan, DE should create one.Call it the "Tenno Ghetto" or "I'm a member too but don't talk to me". As it will probably be the biggest clan, make every research super pricey or time/cycle related (research stay available for like 3 month and then some researches randomly reset) so it has a constant activity. No clan leader, no decoration because they'll fight all the time otherwise 😛

 

What I would love to see with Nightwave, is add a special map for each nightwave so it's time limited, and you could earn standing there by doing various things. But to actually make a place that will be here only for a limited amount of time wouldn't be reasonable 🤔 Let's be even more unreasonble ^^ make it a raid ! A contest of who can capture the most fugitives in the prison in a limited time, like a pvp mode but with pve as well 😄 You can kill other players or steal their target before they capture it. Make it different way to farm credits from the Index, where the more you capture the more credits you get, like bounty hunters or mercenaries. Adapt the challenges and reward with each nightwaves. Work it Steve 😛

[GnarlsDarkley]

4 minutes ago, TheRealShade said:

That could get fixed if we had multiple options for each challenge. "Catch 5 rare fish OR kill 5 wildlife with a fishing spear" as an example, give players both alternatives.

I was thinking the same for some time now.

Why isn't DE giving us 100 challenges (i.e) each week divided into 10 groups and we can choose one for each.

Or just don't let us choose overlapping ones like: Weekly (do 2 Sorties) and Elite Weekly (do 5 Sorties)

[(PSN)drollive96]

It would be nice if we got small amounts of wolf credits (say 5 or10 it doesn't have to be alot ) every time we rank up, then every 3 tiers we get a larger amount, the rewards are worth it, but i feel we should be getting credits a bit more frequently. 

[Albion_Vortigern]

The actual reason 1 hour is too much is because your game is made of wet cardboard tied together with household tape. I did both at the same time and cannot tell you how many things broke, stopped functioning, and glitched out during this one survival on the kuva fortress. It was an absolute nightmare putting up with so many elements of the game breaking at once.
The kuva fortress has to be THE MOST UNOPTIMIZED, laggy, computer destroying node in the game.
The worst part was when kuva modules stopped working, none of the kuva life support stations even came close to working.  
If you make players do these types of long challenges make them worth 10,000 nightwave not this lame 5000

THERE IS NO REASON TO NOT HAVE HIGH/HARD CHALLENGES BUT YOU NEED TO MAKE THEM WORTH THE EFFORT AND TIME

other notes:
Garuda blood effects are now perminently vomit green
Mutalist Quanta. again.  Alt fire no longer stacks properly and gives bonus exactly once

[SneakyErvin]

I really dont get the people saying that Nightwave takes too much time. About 3 hours per week or so easily clears all the challenges (not counting dailies cos they are so trivial). If you cant be bothered to spend 25 minutes (60 min survival not included) per day on your hobby I dont think it is the system which you criticize that is the problem to begin with. At that point there really isnt much they can do to make people happy, except hand out the rewards for free at the start of each new episode/season.

Also if you cant be bothered to spend around 25 minutes per day on the game there really is nothing else in the game you'll do on a daily basis anyways. So Nightwave doesnt really take time away from anything else, because you do nothing in the game to begin with.

Edited March 12, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[thegreatersea]

Overall, I'm actually finding it hard to come up with criticism or suggestions for Nightwave. This update was just excellent across the board.

That said, I do have some suggestions for challenges going forward. First, I actually didn't mind the ayatan challenge, but for a normal weekly challenge the number of sculptures to be fill should be lower. Five or more sculptures should be reserved for elite (or veteran, more on that later) challenges. For challenges involving endless mission types, they should encourage players to stick around for at least B or C rotation. For example, an Elite Sanctuary Onslaught challenge so be to complete at least 4 zones rather than 3, or to do a Arbitration Defense mission for 20 or 30 waves. As for survival challenges in particular, I think 20 minutes would be enough for a normal weekly challenge, and 40 minutes for an elite version.

As for my earlier comment about "veteran" challenges, I think an interesting addition would be a single challenge each week for the season (or less often, depending on how much standing you decide it should reward and the difficulty) that is on the order of a 60 minute Kuva Survival mission without life support, staying in a single Arbitration mission for at least 3 C rotations, or something similar. This challenge, in keeping with the pattern of the existing standing rewards, would be worth 7000 Nightwave standing.

But again, overall, this has been a fantastic addition to the game so far, and I'm excited to see how it evolves over time!

[Xixott]

A lot of what we do feels like it is going unrewarded. No other way to earn Wolf Creds other than hitting certain tiers or going prestige is one of the more major complaints I have about WoS6. I'm not a fan of having an unannounced field boss fight that you have absolutely no time to prepare for the first time around. 1 hour endless missions for weekly are on the much side for me not because of laziness, but because I physically can't do them due to medical issues. Mandatory Friend/Clan requirement is a bit of a problem because people have lives outside of Warframe and sometimes can't play for weeks at a time. There are points during this event where I feel not enough is elaborated on, or that there is something missing making it feel less enjoyable.

[Sgt.Skullboy]

Having to do a mission with an interesting mutator would be cool for a daily challenge, Ex; only Eximus enemies or Headshot damage only, oh a cool one would be melee only, but the same goes for the enemy. 

Also i think the elite missions should have alternate ways to complete them, as in kill/capture a teralyst or(for someone who doesnt want to go in the planes) defeat [insert starmap boss here] with a difficulty increase.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Sgt.Skullboy

[Chaemyerelis]

Night wave makes me not want to play. You feel pressured to to do some out of the way tasks that you don't feel like doing  in order to get a good reward in the end. If you don't then you feel like you're wasting your game time. Also some of those tasks are ridiculous. Not everyone has clan mates or friends or wants to sit in a mission for an hour or can even kill eidelons.

Even though the old system was random I preferred the quick access/reward to the night wave system.

[pawlodiablow]

Ok heres my recommendations :

Dailies

take into consideration that most of people that would want to obtain aura mods are new players….. Most of new players dont have acces to certain elemental dmg mods or acces to higher lvl planets. So even completing somthing as trivial as " kill X amount of enemies using this superior elemental dmg type " is a too much for them.

I would suggest more complete X amount of type of mission. ...……..or 2/3 daily challages: 1 for type of mission 2nd one for  ips/elemental dmg type 3rd for enemies killed in certain way. - that way new players can learn sth from it and have oportunity to gain some rep.

Weeklies

This should require more knowledge of the game . Mining fishing kdrivin races bounties  syndicates ( most of new players have just one syndicate 10 sydnicate missions for casual plaing 3 days a week is way too much 9 would be more reasonable) opening dragon vaults . I would maybe add something as using deploiables X amount of Times (spectres , pizzas ) These are all great. Could do some numer tweaking but they're for most part great as they are.

Elite Weeklies

I understand intent that those are directed to "endgame" playerbase. Endgame is sth compleatly diffrent for casuals and min-maxers. There should be at least 1 elite weekly that is aimed at everyone for example : endless mission types  / relic missions /kuva siphons . that way anyone from new player base can get that 5k reputation.

Nightwave UI

I wish u could acces nightwave by using orbiter radio and radio was dispaying "current threat" -whether its a sigil or cool graphic .

"Cred offerings" should be more visible. I founds many players confused about what those challanges are even for and they are being treated as just "steam achivments". 

To sum up : 

• we need more daily /elite challanges that appeal to casuals as well as long time players.
• i appreacieate all efforts of devs to make this game better.

Edited March 12, 2019 by pawlodiablow
UI part

[Trizion]

Would really love to see the following be changed and/or added for the next Nightwave:

 

• Lowered credit costs for certain items like Nitain Extract, Catalysts and Reactors. Now, that Nightwave removed most of the alerts it is going to be rather difficult for newer players to get these items due to them being "gated" behind credits. Their only other option would be to wait for Gift of the Lotus alerts or random invasions which isn't really any fun
• More daily missions at least 2 - 4 or 3 - 5 would be good enough. Once, you finish the weekly missions you really have nothing else to do other than just wait for dailies to refresh and that is about it
• Not having previous weeks missions expire when they get "refreshed" and have them stay there if you haven't completed them that week. This allows people who may of missed a previous week of missions to be able to still do them when they come back. The system you guys wanted to make was to get rid of the "boring and mindless" alerts while still giving people a chance to get stuff they may have missed when they were asleep or had work or whatever, but currently if someone doesn't have enough time to get their weeklies done then they are punished for not doing so which kind of sucks for the more casual players
• Adding some sort of monthly mission (since Nightwaves last for 10 weeks or so) that gives quite a lot of nightwave standing to give some sort of incentive to keep playing within that month 
• Making time/wave limited missions cumulative instead of having to do it in one go. You can increase the amount you have to do and that would be fine
• Removing conditions like "do not use life support towers". This opens the way for griefing/trolling
• Making credits somewhat slightly possible to farm outside of nightwave 
• Adding in mission challenges that reward nightwave standing
• Adding in some special version of Twitch Drop monsters for Nightwave themed enemies like the Wolf of Saturn Six that is incredibly tough to beat, however if you manage to beat them then you get a nice chunk of Nightwave standing, their drop rates for low drop chance items are doubled and they drop a few extra items on death

[(XBOX)GHST EXODUS]

Make it easier to gain Wolf Credits, an option would be either 10,000C Credits can be traded in for 1-5 Wolf Credits instead of being rewarded 50 or 55 every tier and having to wait for the challenges to refresh.

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

Personally as a fairly long time vet, my stance on nightwave is that its a fantastic (arguably much needed) addition to Warframe. To me it seems like almost all players of different skill levels can participate in the content offered by nightwave which is a very good thing and I think going forward it is important to keep that objective in mind for this system. Some challenges (particularly elite) are not for everyone and that's not a bad thing by any means, but could create an issue if alternative options are not provided. What I mean by this is that some players may come to the wrong conclusion on the intents of this system by saying its too unforgiving. Below I've listed some of my ideas on how to solve that issue/ provide feedback. 

 

 

1. Make the sigils give players standing. Now, before anyone says thats too generous, let me just say that the first sigil should only provide about 1000 standing a day, and the next/last sigil you get is capped out at 5000 daily. This is basically just a way for newer players to "complete" an elite task they otherwise wouldn't be able to and thus have more of a chance at getting the end rewards. Of course, I pulled those numbers fairly out of thin air, so its very likely they should be tweaked, but a limited sigil system would provide some good to a lot of players in my opinion. 

2. Fugitives captured should give 1 cred each upon capture along with standing, while the killing the Wolf provides 10-25. I dont know how much the spawns will be increased later in the event, so this may make things a bit too easy, but I think that giving players another "reliable" way of attaining such a precious resource is important. That way, in between standing rewards every 10,000 players have a way to get some of the very necessary items from the cred shop easier. This would be particularly beneficial to new players or weekend warriors in my opinion and doesn't seem too game breaking in my opinon. 

3. Offer more weekly challenges in general. Having more challenges gives newbies a chance to have some alternative options if some challenges are too difficult/gated off from them. Additionally, this makes all the hardcore players who grind through all of their challenges in a day less "bored because they have nothing to do". Overall I think an increased amount of challenges would just give more wiggle room for people like myself who can't play all the time so that they have a better chance of not missing out on the awesome end rewards. 

 

All of these suggestions are in response to the acquiring of rewards as currently that is the only issue I see with nightwave as a whole. I think that the idea of 60% participation is still a good and reasonable number to shoot for in terms of player time invested, but I also think that it should be easier to participate across the board (hence my suggestions).  Other than that though I believe nightwave is just a good direction for the continued growth of Warframe. I'm loving the challenges as they provide a necessary incentive to play different content I haven't in awhile, the rewards are PERFECT, and the lore is always appreciated. Great work so far DE, hope you can keep expanding and improving this system for years to come. 

 

TLDR; Rewards are great as is nightwaves implementation, acquisition of and ways to farm for standing and creds should be increased/tweaked slightly however. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Obe-Ron-Kenobi

[le_souriceau]

I absolutly love Nightwave and with it be regular thing with new features and rewards. It keeps me playing game (almost alone).

Just don't cave in to people (vocal minority), who want it easier. Its already almost too easy. Without glimse of difficulty, time pressure and all that -- all charm will be completly lost, just another grind fodder without spice. Keep it at least as it is.

[Andrew7811]

I am finding killing 150 enemies with a specific element to be too many to warrant a daily slot. That many or maybe 200 would warrant a weekly slot, but not a daily slot. Thanks

[LegendaryNeurotoxin]

Anything that punishes people for not having something accumulated needs to be prohibited. The Ayatans were a slam-dunk for me because I'm lazy about processing them, but a diligent player gets shafted. 

Anything MR-locked is restrictive and disincentivizing to new players. I feel like the sortie stuff is a bit unfair to newer players, as they used to be able to mash alerts to get what they needed, and now they need to grind to MR 8 and complete story content just to participate in the replacement for alerts. Same with anything that would require using the operator. 

Anything that imposes more than 15 minutes of gameplay is too much. If three measly waves of Elite Sanctuary Onslaught is worthy of an elite challenge, 15 minutes of coordinated group play seems like a closer equivalent. With that in mind, additional challenges could be added, like 15 minutes with a derelict key equipped, or only using one weapon category . 

 

I believe the philosophy behind Nightwave challenges should be to make players play the game in a way they may not be used to, in order to get a broader sampling of what they can actually do in the game. I love the "kill with X damage type" and execution finishers and kill a hydrolyst, those are great, some people may not do those as much so it'll get them out of their comfort zone. Making people K-Drive trick and grind, do stuff while in Archwing (open world or actual flight), complete a solo mission that isn't a copy of a riven challenge. Maybe a community Nightwave challenge list would be a good way to generate more player-approved stuff.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

@[DE]Bear

Just going to link the thread I made & have been updating as the Nightwaves keep coming.

That's enough feedback from me. Impo.

 

[diaversai]

I've done all the challenges so far. I'm mastery 26 (started late July 2018), but recently got my wife and brother to play. And they are mastery 5 and 11ish. So I'm looking at this from a few different perspectives. 

The biggest thing is that I think Nitain should still be available through the old alert system in addition to wolf creds, or maybe every level should give you a Nitain in addition to the normal reward. My brother at mastery 5 needs Nitain. He doesn't play a lot, so he's about to hit Nightwave rank 1. Needs 3 or 4 for Nitain, and then it doesn't appear until 7 or 8. That's hard if you don't play a lot. Like 3-4 weeks for 15 Nitain, and that's ignoring the rest of the rewards. Meanwhile at Mastery 26, I'm already sitting on over 100 Nitain, and I'll be able to buy tons of other stuff since I'll hit over rank 30 no problem. My wife is doing all right on Nitain while crafting new items, because we've been doing all the challenges together. So, the amount of Nitain is probably balanced if you're doing every challenge, but that's not going to be true for everyone. If you're only generating 20k rep/week, that's going to be 15 Nitain/2 weeks or so, if you don't buy anything else. 

I also don't like the overflow effect of Wolf Creds. It's extremely limited until Rank 31, and then you'll be swimming in them. I'd rather see wolf creds at every rank (maybe 10/rank to match the 300 you'd get if you did it all). Obviously, I'm not rank 31 yet, and I'm going by the assumption that you get 50 wolf creds every level after 30. I'll hit rank 45-50 probably by the end. That's an extra 750-1000 Wolf Creds, vs the 300 available if you can only hit rank 24. That's about triple the amount you'd get from the initial. 

For challenge specific stuff, I think the biggest issue is that some of the challenges feel outside of how the game operates.

1. Ayatan socketing - I do syndicate missions every day  and I have access to Arbitrations so this wasn't a problem for me, but I feel like it forces stalling. If this repeats, then I'll want to hold onto Ayatan sculptures and not socket/trade them for endo in case it comes back. I haven't socketed anything since this challenge and don't plan on doing so until this Nightwave ends.

2. 60 minute anything - This game is broken down into 5 minute segments. Basically every mission is designed to be done in 5 minutes. Capture, exterminate, sabotage, rescue can all be done in under 5 minutes. The time locked ones like survival, defense, interception, defection, and mobile defense fit pretty well in a 5 minute set as well. At the top end, you have C rotations which you expect to take around 20 minutes, so it feels outside of the scope of the game to have to do 60 minutes. I'd rather it be broken up into 3 20 minute chunks. 

3. Bounties - I don't like that the system encourages lower level bounties vs higher level ones. I think completing bounty segments would be better. 24 bounty segments would be 8 low level bounties or 5 high level bounties. I think that'd be a better system.

4. Without using life support - I don't like anything you can fail with a bad click.

5. 5 sorties - Since sorties are non-repeatable, I don't like the idea of something you can fail if you go on vacation for a weekend. Let's say I care about warframe more than going outside. Do I go on a vacation or do I do the five sorties? I'm going to pick sorties. That's bad for video game/life balance. 

6. There's just a wild variance in difficulty between challenges of the same tier, and I think that's bad. 60 minute survival is way more demanding than 3 ESO waves.

Now, all that said, I think Nightwave is a great system that encourages people to do things that they should be doing anyway. In particular I love the Lua/Vault challenges this week. I haven't been able to make time for that kind of thing, and my wife needs mods from both of those. Generally, all the Nightwave stuff has fit into my playstyle (which is admittedly excessive) really nicely.

[diaversai]

double posted. don't know how to delete.

Edited March 12, 2019 by diaversai

[(PSN)Jetsflame]

Have you considered making Nightwave's missions scale in difficulty? For example the further you get into the season you'll get higher up the ranks. Then the ranking you have can scale the difficulty of the Nightwave challenges that you have to face.

[(PSN)wmiller561]

I think making Nightwave similar to other syndicates would make it more flexible.  Do away with wolf cred and place all of the rewards into one reward table and players use standing to get what they need or want.  Set up the rewards with an appropriate cost in standing and let players set their own priorities for what they want to spend it on.

[(PSN)Elloshin]

On 2019-03-04 at 10:47 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Hey Tenno,

Nightwave is here in all of it’s Nora Night-backed glory, and there has been a lot of back and forth (both on the forums and internally) about the challenges and how to accrue Nightwave standing. Series 1 of Nightwave is our first attempt at this addition to Warframe, and we want to thank you all for sharing your thoughts and requests. We will be using this thread to gather feedback from everyone on all Platforms! 

So at first pass, we are seeing some concerns rise to the top:

• Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.
• Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.
• Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

For some of these Elite challenges, we were attempting to speak to the endurance runners, but it seems we may have missed the mark - if you liked it, or didn't like it, comment below. In the end, we wanted to make a series of challenges that spoke to every type of player, but we do not want to do so at the cost of enjoyment overall.

Nightwave is still new to the community and we are expecting to see more feedback come as the series progresses - you've only seen a % of all Acts, so as Series 1 progresses we need your feedback on the appearing Acts. We've seen players responding with some possible solutions that would make these challenges more piecemeal, balance the resources needed to complete some challenges, and assess social requirements to get your goodies.

We will be applying what we have learned to Nightwave Series 2 - but can only improve with constructive, detailed posts about what you like / didn't like about acts. Knowing what you like is just as important as what you don't like. 
 

Talks about too much RNG

adds multiple RNG based challenges in the next one.

RNG / slot machine is not equal to either fun nor challenges. Especially when none of it is in the hand of the player. RNG is not always bad, in terms of rewards 

*Venus Miner
*Earth Miner
*Venus Fisher
  - in all the mining / fishing I did previous to this challenge I haven't found so many of them, yet I am to magically supposed to find 6 in less than one week

 

Night Waves challenges (cont.)

While some of the challenges can be quite fun, grouping up with clannies and getting them done, others can be quite tedious and flat out boring / repetitive  or just so random.Most of the challenges are things that I rarely touch in Warframe, whether it may be dailies, syndicates or just random things. 

Like the animals from last week. Perfect captures, not did I previously never had any perfect captures before, the perfect capturing mechanism was also so bugged that there was no way of knowing of what you did triggered the perfect capture or not. I did that numerous times just to get the 10. 

Some of the challenges do take a great amount of time to complete and aren't kind to those who aren't able to play allot. Thus are easily misable, because some of them are chained towards other daily stuff that has to be completed repeatedly in order for the challenge to be completed. 


Night wave coins

Due to the rewards and the actual coins being rank based, and not based not based on the challenges you complete, is definitely problematic in both short and long term.
On the short term everything is locked behind a wall, that takes not only way longer than the older system used to handle but also is certainly very limit in comparison to it. 

On the long term how long does one actually have to wait and invest before having the ability to acquire it all? And missed challenges do have lash backs on to my progression thus my ability to acquire something is even less than before.

 

Night Wave challenges recommendation
The negatives of this reward system makes it an even less formidable substitution of the previous alert system. This is mostly due to the limitation of this system in term of investment and the limitation of the acquiring certain things with this bells and whistles, hyped, item shop. The best thing for this to happen is that the given challenges mount in the ability to actually buy the most expensive thing in the item shop (3x - 5x) every week.

That comes down two potatoes weekend alerts and some what extra, just like the old Warframe used to have.

Also there should be an option to also do all the missed challenges. Maybe at the last week.

Edited March 13, 2019 by (PS4)Elloshin

[JohnnyQuantum]

Overall is a positive change. Some background story is nice, character pop up in missions is cool, and adds a little variety to what I do.

But having overlapping events (this plus Operation: Buried Debts for example) makes it very difficult to get top tier rewards. Perhaps make the series longer (say 3-4 months), to make top tier rewards achievable?

[beetalogist]

-No hour long survivals or anything approaching that length for a single mission. Instead, have the hour (or 2 hours) be cumulative.

-Remove any requirement for friend/clanmate. Or allow us to complete those with a Clem Clone! 

-More stealth based acts (similar to the level 30+ Exterminate while undetected act)