Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[(NSW)Oren_Gruffs]

18 hours ago, (XB1)Erudite God said:

You have a whole week to do 8 short missions my man. Do you not enjoy the game or something?

I explain the problem I experienced in the post brother. You can read it if you like. 

[Kuldor]

I'll copy paste myself from the "make nitain purchasable" thread.

 

I don't know if someone did the math, but nitain is now MUCH more time consuming to get, so much in fact that the difference is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Before:

1 nitain per alert, a single alert was 10 minutes tops (slightly longer in some defenses, but also MUCH shorter for captures/rescues/spies...) so, worst case scenario, we are talking about 10 minutes per nitain, 15 nitains, 150 minutes, 2 hours and a half consumed.

 

Now:

Well, time spent doing challenges varies a lot depending on who you ask, but I'd say an average player can get most of them (not all unless you get carried, hydralist I'm looking at you), in something like 4 hours a week. Hey, first week, nice, you can get 15 nitain this week, but you are already sinking an hour and a half more than before to get the same reward. AND, after a certain point you get creds roughly at half rate, so we are looking at maybe 6 or 8 hours to get 15 nitain. Am I the only one seeing the issue? the reward is not appropiate for the time spent, 4 hours of time spent should be around 24 nitain.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Kuldor

[Salenstormwing]

3 hours ago, Sabremouse said:

All I want to say is that doing a level 30 extermination without being detected was a tense and surprisingly fun change of pace I would never have tried otherwise.

Especially the five minutes I spent hiding behind a locker in a tiny corpus room with 3 fugitives and an ambulas... 😓

 

Really? You should have tried it with a Loki solo. Just being invisible all the time works great. Oh sure, the enemy might know something is going on, but as long as they don't see you, you should be fine. Still, what happened to you did sound pretty tense though. Congrats on getting through the mission successfully.

[Drasiel]

My only complaint about night wave is that it dictates when I should be playing. I would much prefer a system like diablo 3 season where all the challenges are available for the whole season. Now I get to decide when I play, if I had to work I could catch up according to my schedule. If I'm burning out I can take breather and not exacerbate and hasten the burn out by feeling forced to login for nightwave. 

[dyewithasmile]

nightwave feed back

     i like it fine even though it is following industry trends that in general i dont like see article "i dont want to do my video game chores"

     info on the wolf credit shop is needed! i missed desert atterax because i didnt know that wolf decoration was going to return Every time! i need a segment boxed and seperated for "evergreen rewards plz

    the Wolf part is the single worst element in Any game i have ever EVER experienced your game in general needs an rng fail state so that at 1000 missions i am guaranteed a thing (or some such number maybe 100 or varies with thing) so i dont have to do 172 fortress spy missions for nidus part or 83 defections for harrow part or 124 tyl regors for equinox part; those things i will Never forget and will compare to other games and warn newbies about are as Nothing compared to the number of missions i havent seen the wolf in (as of now i have yet to see the wolf)... bare minimum we all fight him once the battle ends with him at 1 life escaping and vowing revenge (or we do same)

[--ToadPrime--]

I'd like to see the cred offerings list at week 10 have all items available. So at the end of the event I have something to spend the creds on and have an opportunity to get any item previously available.

[RAZORLIGHT]

About the nightwave bounty challenges/tasks

could you please change it, that we have to complete bounty stages instead of full bounties (for example 15-25 bounty stages instead of 8 complete bounties) would make the higher level, longer bounties more viable for people who already maxed the standing and could give us veterans a better challenge + rewards.

[Grimmaldi_Grey]

Not sure this is the right place to post this (feel free to move it). I was running Nightwave weeklies, I checked my rep it was 5850. I finished a 1K challenge and it was 2850. I had lost 3K. I checked later, it was 3850. Is this a known issue? If so sorry to bug you. I really love Warframe.

[simplygnome]

20 minutes ago, Grimmaldy said:

Not sure this is the right place to post this (feel free to move it). I was running Nightwave weeklies, I checked my rep it was 5850. I finished a 1K challenge and it was 2850. I had lost 3K. I checked later, it was 3850. Is this a known issue? If so sorry to bug you. I really love Warframe.

You might want to also go to the Bugs forum section and put it in there, just to make sure it gets seen by the correct people.

[shootaman777]

On 2019-03-13 at 12:59 PM, (PS4)Elloshin said:

While I do no agree with you with all that you have posted here, that is not why I am replying with you in the first place. 
So I'll point out what I agree with you and continue on off topic.

On topic:

I do agree you on the Night wave being interesting and that DE need to be more into the mind of the players. Mostly because I because I feel like that DE has found a recipe and now they are just mass producing while checking in. 
 

Off topic:

I have noticed that no matter how you upgrade some weapons they never really get there. Here, you have mentioned a list of them and I would like to have names instead of investing so much of my time into some only to find out that it won't get me anywhere. So I would like to ask you for a list of all these weapons you mentioned. 

I have asked around and done some google digging and there is no list of the MR fodder. While I love talking to everyone in the clan and game about the weapons and know that everyone has there preferences, it would be nice to just be able to see and move on with out bothering too many. 

If it is not much to ask, can you at least provide a list of weapons that are worth while?

 

Can do.  I made the list by scrolling through my Arsenal and adding a tally each time I saw a good weapon, so I'll just do the same and also write down the weapon names.  I will probably miss a few or add a few to what I had on the list before, but here goes:

 

Primaries:
Amprex (clears trash mobs, slight downgrade to Ignis Wraith)
Arca Plasmor (It's a solid shotgun. Not the best, not the worst, but solid)
Attica (+Thunderbolt for explosive automatic crossbow memes, or built for crit and rivened for lethality)
Corinth (Same as Arca Plasmor, though its stats are just bad enough to require a riven)
Dex Sybaris
Hek (with Steel Meridian augment)
Hema (has lifesteal on headshots, drains health to reload, it's interesting and has good utility)
Ignis Wraith (clears higher-tier trash mobs than Amprex, pretty solid all-arounder)
Javlok (only for use in setting self on fire as Ember to use her passive for massive energy regen)
Lanka (+Mag's Magnetise = murder incarnate)
Latron Prime (it's not great, but it's my favourite semi-auto rifle primary and has great stability, I use it for '3 headshots in 1 aim glide' riven challenges)
Lenz
Miter (with Steel Meridian Augment that insta-and-perma-pops Nullifier bubbles, AKA a bubble hit by it will never be able to regenerate, ever)
Mk1-Paris/Paris Prime (I have an 8-forma Mk1-Paris for the memes, but Paris Prime is the way to go over the Mk1 variant)
Opticor
Prisma Gorgon
Prisma Grakata
Quanta Vandal
Rakta Cernos (Rakta procs give free energy, and the draw time for this bow is nonexistent)
Rubico Prime
Sancti Tigris
Soma Prime
Strun Wraith (tied for best status weapon, reaches 100% status chance before multishot easily due to base 40%, has 5* riven disposition, it's a status cannon)
Supra Vandal
Tenora
Tiberon Prime
Tigris Prime
Tonkor
Torid
Vectis Prime
Zenith

Secondaries:
Aklex/Aklex Prime
Akmagnus
Atomos
Azima
Ballistica Prime (has a unique effect where on kill with fully charged shot, it spawns a spectre of what it killed)
Dex Furis (as a status cannon with an Afuris riven, one of the best status cannons in the game alongside Strun Wraith)
Dual Toxocyst (for use with Mesa's Peacemaker)
Euphona Prime
Hikou Prime (for self-damage Chroma builds)
Hystrix
Lato Prime/Lato Vandal
Mara Detron
Nukor (for use with Harrow)
Pandero
Pyrana Prime (fun, but not great)
Rakta Ballistica (Rakta procs give energy)
Sancti Castanas (situational at best, and its main use got recently nerfed)
Sicarus Prime
Twin Grakatas (CLEM.)
Twin Kohmak
Tysis (corrosive cannon, base 50% status chance)
Vaykor Marelok
Zakti (opens enemies up to melee finishers)

Melee:
Atterax (a spin2win masterpiece)
Bo Prime
Ceramic Dagger (used to be godly, but still a good pick even after its nerf. ALWAYS USE STINGING THORN STANCE AND COVERT LETHALITY MOD)
Galatine Prime
Glaive Prime
Gram Prime
Guandao (spin2win)
Halikar (has unique ability that, on directly hitting an enemy with a throw, disarms them. Can be dual-wielded with single-hand secondaries)
Hirudo (has a form of lifesteal on crit, it was released alongside the Hema)
Jat Kittag (used in ground-pound builds, i.e. Wukong's 1st ability augment builds)
Jaw Sword/Mire (for use with Gara's/Khora's 1st ability, with Arbiters of Hexis/Red Veil augments + rivens)
Karyst (ALWAYS USE STINGING THORN STANCE AND COVERT LETHALITY MOD)
Nikana Prime
Orthos Prime (spin2win)
Paracesis (needs 5 forma and reaches a max level of 40, not 30)
Prisma Dual Cleavers (with Steel Meridian Augment)
Prisma Obex (with Cephalon Suda augment)
Rakta Dark Dagger (restores/gives overshields as you attack. ALWAYS USE STINGING THORN STANCE AND COVERT LETHALITY MOD)
Redeemer Prime (with Bullet Dance stance, also works well with Shattering Impact)
Sancti Magistar (charged attacks emit a healing pulse, it can heal objectives/self/allies and is affected by melee range mods)
Sarpa (with Bullet Dance stance, also works well with Shattering Impact)
Scoliac (best melee in the game, riven required with +range, spin2win strats)
Secura Lecta (extra credits from enemies, good for status, and works with spin2win strats)
Sigma & Octantis (it's not the best, but it's very fun since it's a sword n' board where you can throw the board in midair)
Skiajati (it's an Umbral weapon and can work well with Sacrificial mods)
Heliocor/Synoid Heliocor (it codex scans enemies on kill, and is great for scanning Kavats in the Orokin Derelict)
Tipedo
Venka Prime (has a unique passive that builds up combo multiplier incrementally faster than other melees (+0.25x per each 0.5x otherwise gained)
War
Wolf Sledge
Zenistar

Arch-gun:
All are generally viable and decent, and it comes down to personal preference.  However, Velocitus is generally considered the best, and Imperator Vandal and Grattler are considered to be top-tier as well.  Personally, I prefer the Cyngas for fun. 

Arch-melee:
Same as arch-guns.  The Centaur is the top Arch-melee, and the Prisma Veritux is not far behind, alongside the Onorix (my favourite Arch-melee). 

 

Hope that helps! :)

[Arkis-Prime]

I'm enjoying Nightwave quite a bit! I've already been able to pick up a helmet I was missing, the rewards look like a lot of fun but not end of the world if missed* (I'll talk about that more later though), and the fact that dailies stack up to 3 days makes it much more relaxed in case I don't have time to play that day. I like the idea of the episodic updates, it adds some extra life and context to the game world and I imagine it's much easier to do than something like a full on quest. It's also nice that it brings you back to content you might not have played in a while, like the Clem weekly or Derelict vaults. As for feedback:

Voice Lines

I'm loving Nora as a character, and can't wait to see more of her and how we interact with her in future. However I would suggest ordering the magnitude of her dialogue, it's a tad silly when I open a few lockers and she's praising to the solar system of how much of a badass I am. It would also help reduce fatigue of hearing those repeatedly and keep them for special challenges. For dailies and even most weeklies, having simple lines like 'Good on you, Tenno. Job well done' , 'That about wraps it up. Nice one, Dreamer'. Or what have you.

Endurance Challenges

I was surprised to see these to be honest given how much has been said against "Diaper Endless missions" and structuring content so people don't feel they have to play for 2 hours straight just to get any decent rewards (while still offering endless modes for those who want that). I'm all for adding challenge, however super long missions like that end up being dull for the first 40-50 minutes, then the final 10 minutes can get interesting when enemies actually pose more of a threat. I think it ends up highlighting more issues than it should: enemy scaling, how powerful players are, host and connection instability, and lots and lots of standing around. Every other mission type has you moving forward, even if some of the tileset repeats you still know you're moved further into the mission. And in the end, I personally didn't feel like it was an "elite challenge" that I overcame, was just like a regular mission but way longer than I'd like. What was challenging however was doing the Clem mission survival which was more like 10 min, but the Wolf showed up and put up a real fight! I frantically had to break off from the fight to get life support and balance fighting him and staying alive.

My suggestion would be to convert endless mission challenges to cumulative instead of being a single sitting. That way people could do 1+ hours in one sitting, or several chunks over the week. Eventually, maybe for the next Nightwave story and beyond, having a good look at how these types of missions operate would go a long way to providing greater challenge without having to resort to endurance runs. They need a wrench thrown in the works, and the perfect candidate for that (at least for this season) is the Wolf and the convicts. Having the mission be more like 30 min instead of 60, but with the Wolf stomping around possibly destroying life support towers (like Kuva Survival, it could still give some air but less than the normal 30%). Some kind of intermediate threat that warrants your attention beyond just shoot guy, get life support. It's an entire discussion in of itself but in general I believe a lot of players like to vary up their gameplay and having potentially the only time you have that day go to one mission isn't going to feel great. Especially when it awards the same amount of points as other challenges that can be done in multiple stages. You could increase the amount of points it gives, but again, I'd rather do more challenges than a single one worth more.

Returning Content and Reward Tracks

I know there are players who cling dearly to any form of exclusivity, but from my experience in other games, I wouldn't want to ever fully bar new players from accessing the same things I have. I just happen to be able to play while this season is out, nothing special. Anyone new will still have to earn their reward, but at least they have the ability to do so. I hope these Nightwave missions are a kind of timed exclusivity, in that you have to be a part of it while it happens at first but down the road there will be some way to access it again.

I'd use Guild Wars 2 as an example. At launch they put out update after update for their living world. However if you missed it, it was gone forever. It was not until season 2 they made the right choice of having them be permanent missions in the game and could be replayed at any time. While they didn't bring back the events themselves, through new events players were able to earn many of the old items from those early days. GW2 also has an interesting system of reward tracks for their PVP modes, allowing those players to earn the same rewards if they're not interested in PVE content. In future, Nightwave could offer a similar reward track allowing players to pick from various seasons and have their progress count towards that. Especially since there is the prestige mechanic, players could complete their current season then choose to make some progress on a previous season they didn't get to complete.

 

I can't really comment on new player experience but hopefully that's where the 60% completed comes in to play and that they'll have enough daily and weekly missions to still get them to the end. I think this is an exciting step forward and offers lots of potential for interesting new mechanics, revitalised old content, and world building! 

[Drasiel]

51 minutes ago, Grimmaldy said:

Not sure this is the right place to post this (feel free to move it). I was running Nightwave weeklies, I checked my rep it was 5850. I finished a 1K challenge and it was 2850. I had lost 3K. I checked later, it was 3850. Is this a known issue? If so sorry to bug you. I really love Warframe.

Are you sure you didn't increase rank in nightwave? Every rank gained sends you back to zero Rep plus any leftover. 

[mishli]

I apologize if this is a bit wordy, I'm not good at being succinct with my thoughts, but you asked for feedback, so I wanted to say what I could.
I really like the idea of nightwave, but feel, overall, that it has been poorly implemented.
tl/dr:
I think Nightwave was intended as a fun bonus to help players feel like they are often making progress towards a goal even while doing other stuff, which is a great idea! but due to the rarity/value/"MUST GET" nature of many of the rewards, the timed nature of the missions, and the lack of information on my progress, it feels more like I'm being held hostage, and forced to do chores instead of having cool extra mission bonuses.

First, what I like: 
I love some of the rewards offered, as someone without a lot of money, I can't state enough how much I appreciate even the odd handout of weapon/warframe slots.

This may be kind of silly, but I honestly enjoy the random spawns of fugitives to track down. They usually are fairly unintrusive, and also quite quick, kind of like finding a dollar bill on the ground. They aren't as formal/dramatic as the stalker or syndicate and the guaranteed standing skips the constant disappointment of stalker never dropping that one thing you need from him even though you keep getting your hopes up every time he spawns.

neutral:
I usually enjoy some of the lore/stories you guys have produced in the past, War within was some really interesting stuff, but whatever's going on here? Honestly it doesn't feel well presented. Generally all the announcer does is spout random things that don't really pertain to anything. I honestly am interested in what's going on, and who this Wolf guy is, but I've already gotten sick of the announcer saying nothing of value. Some people like her voice, I've nothing against it, I just wish there was more to it than just congratulating you on completing menial tasks or saying things that don't really mean anything, like "life is a cornucopia" that really doesn't mean much when you think about it.

Dislike:

The way the missions are presented.

What I have always loved about Warframe is the way one is generally able to pick the way they want to play. I've had a long day at work and want to relax? I can grab a tanky frame, do survival/defense and just collect some relics without having to think about it too much. I don't have much time, but want to do something? I can do a few orb vallis bounties or a capture/exterminate fissure before I leave. I want to try hard and focus something? I can do spider mom or eidolons. Even the daily login is very generous being "log in at some point in this frame and you get it" meaning you can even get 2 login rewards back to back if you sign in right before the reset. The laid back nature of the game also is nice, seeing as I don't usually get to play every day, often only 2-4 times a week.

To my best understanding, Nightwave was meant as an extra bonus where players can get bonuses while doing other things. Conceptually, I love that Idea, but I find that the way the system is currently designed far too often feels like it's trying to tell me how to play the game and how to spend my time.

Please don't get me wrong, I loved getting some friends together and doing the 60 minute survival, but as a whole. Instead of being something neat I can do while I'm doing other things, it feels like Nightwave is trying to control and dictate how I play the game. My biggest issue with this is the combination of the potential rewards, mission types, and time limits. 

Currently, some of the potential rewards from Nightwave are a few special mods, and an umbra forma. I believe it's safe to call these "must get" especially seeing as there's no other way to obtain these items in the game and the forma is desperately needed. I know similar items have existed in the game before, such as the ele/status mods, but those always felt like a bonus instead of a mandatory 'you gotta get this' thing. Also the events to get those have generally been quite short, maybe a few hours at most to get most of the mods, then trade for one you're missing. Nightwave often requires me to spend hours at a time on one single mission, or makes me log on every single day to get a single mission done, this has caused the game to feel more like a chore or job than fun. 

To me, previous alerts felt like "do this thing real quick and get a reward" nightwave most often feels like "do all of your chores else you're wasting your time playing this game and not getting as much out of it as you could." Even if I didn't like doing the odd mobile defense, a single mission was generally inconsequential, and doing it didn't mean much, and I was always able to skip it if I didn't feel like it. 

The same can be said with the sortie or daily login. Because there's no true time limit on those, I don't feel pressured to do them. If I'm not feeling up to it, I don't have to do the sortie, or I don't even have to log in today if I don't want to, that reward will be there tomorrow. 

As I said before, I honestly loved the 60 minute survival with friends, but the "do 10 syndicate missions" and "10 perfect hunts" while not hard, this feels like I'm being FORCED to do menial chores that I really really DON"T want to do and takes several hours of menial $&*^ing around that I would much rather not be doing. The "kill x enemies in this way" missions are kind of easy, but I do appreciate that I can do what i want (void missions, kuva, etc) and still work on the nightwave goal.

The biggest issue here, is that some of the nightwave missions do not align with what I as a player want to do, in fact I actually really detest doing some of them. I've loved in Warframe how there's many different mission types, but if I don't like to do them, I don't have to most of the time. My example earlier of the syndicate missions or hunts make me feel like my time is being held for ransom "you HAVE to do these on OUR schedule, otherwise all the work you've done for that item is completely wasted because missing these points means you might not ever be able to get it later!" A fine example is this week, where "you have to log in at least 5 days to do the sortie or miss this mission" 

I've heard that one does not need to do every nightwave mission to get the maximum rewards, however there is no way for me to tell how well I'm doing on that. There's currently a "x/10 weekly mission" counter, but that doesn't really give me any information since it also counts daily missions as well. 10 daily missions is 10k points, 10 weeklies is 50k, that's a vast difference and doesn't seem to make any sense that both increment the counter.

Suggestion:

One thing I believe would help give us more agency was if the players were more aware of exactly how many points were needed to max out at the end of the season.
Say for example, you need 30k nightwave points per week to get all of the nightwave rewards at the end of the season. 
if I get 35k this week, next week the tracker says "you need 25k to hit the average". That gives me a clear marker for how my progress is going, and gives me the agency to make the call of "I don't want to do this mission this week" and not feel bad because I know I'm already over the average, and don't have to worry about it, or "i know I'm going out of town next week, i'll make sure to do every mission this week so I'm not far behind when I get back." Currently with just this nebulous value we don't know, I feel honestly like my hands are tied and I HAVE to do every one, even when it's just menial running around doing syndicate missions when I'm already capped and can't find anything else to do with the points. This might not fix all of the issues I've mentioned, but would at least help some of the problem.

[(PSN)Elloshin]

4 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

- snip 🙂

ty man, that will help allot. I appreciate it.

Edited March 15, 2019 by (PS4)Elloshin
too long

[Makemap]

1. Suggested Challenges should not do are the followings:

-Sorties more than 3.

-Rare fish and rare mining only(including uncommon is okay).

-60 min survivals

-Any missions requiring stealth frames like the lvl 30 exterminate without being detected(it needs to be missions that all frames can do).

-Defense missions more than 30 waves(it takes 45 min just to do 30 waves on some maps due to bad spawn design).

-Interception missions more than 4 waves(soloing interception is painful especially when you don't have the proper frame).

2. Challenge ideas:

-Finish spy missions with Stealth hack(some spy missions have shortcuts so you don't really have to hack the doors with stealth frames).

-Fish 15-30 uncommon or rare fishes

-Mine 10-20 uncommon/rare ores.

-Finish 1-3 bounties solo

-Finish an incursion/multiple incursion solo

-Finish interception missions to wave 4(nothing higher than wave 4)

-Buy a market item.

-Sell # items in inventory(lots of harrow chassis to sell).

-Convert # of mods to Endo

-Collect # of Kuva / Cryotic

-Complete # Extractors in one mission # times.

-Solo Archwing missions

-Solo assassination mission(must be bosses that are not too hard for regular players)

-Defense missions no more than 30 waves.

3. Rewards that need to be added for trade in using wolf credits are the followings:

Why? Once everything is unlock wolf credits will kind of become useless. This will also depends on how much wolf credits you have you can trade in.

-Kuva

-Endo

-Credits(suggest 80-200k max)

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Makemap

[Kseung]

Nightwave's pretty hard sometimes but that's what makes it fun!

TLDR:

• 1 hour survival is fun, don't change it
• Use the community since not everyone has friends
• Ayatan challenges should be 1 per week
• We don't have to do every challenge

-----

Yes 1 hour survival might be too hard for some folks but I agree with what a lot of people already said, "it's an elite challenge for a reason". To be honest if the timer was reduced it would not be fun because enemies just aren't tough enough below that 1 hour mark. My experience was bringing a friend along (yes I manage to find one!) who's very new to the game so he had to try his best to survive the Kuva horde while I kill everything as Nekros since we were going for two challenges at once. I hardly play Nekros except when I need to farm a few materials so this was even more challenging. Our first attempt, we got to 41 minutes before we kept dying and lost on life support. After slapping on some survivability mods and my friend gaining a bit more of an understanding of his warframe (Rhino), our second attempt got to 56 minutes only for me to realize Nekros' 3 wasn't on for like 15 minutes so our life support slipped. Third and final attempt my friend died and ran out of revives at the 57 minute mark and I our life support slipped since I kept having to stop to revive him. It went down to 2% then my friend kept shouting at me that there was a live support just behind a column. I picked it up and got back up to 5% then I managed to kill a few more and somehow got back up to 10%. I took a 2 second pinky break then went back at it and got up to 20% at the 58 minute mark. We finally made it to the 1 hour mark and that sense of achievement and relief was so overwhelming. I've done 1 hours survives many times before but never like that. For me it was the perfect storm; playing with a friend, fighting enemies that can actually fight back, strategizing with a frame I'm not familiar with, then achieving the objectives.

To the second point of needing to have friends. I get it and I won't argue there. Having to require friends to do something might not be reasonable. May just adjusting it to "play with another player" rather than requiring it to be with a friend/clan mate would be fine. I'm a solo player so I'd much rather do everything alone, but I can cop to adding a party member for a mission that requires it since there is a co-op expectation to the game.

As to the Ayatans, I didn't have a problem with it since I just had a bunch sitting in my inventory doing nothing. I do understand others' situation though if they star and/or trade them immediately on receipt so that also might not have been such a great challenge. If it was restricted to having to start only 1 Ayatan treasure, and that challenge was only available in the weekly rotation, that'd be fine since that gives Maroo's guaranteed weekly reward, plus the chance of getting it via a Sortie.

Lastly, the way Nightwave was setup players aren't required to do every single challenge to get to rank 30. We can actually miss quite a few which I've opted to do for all Orb Vallis challenges since I'm not ready to invest time into Orb Vallis at the moment. I think this was a smart thing to do because it allows players to not be perfect but still achieve everything, while at the same time (assuming the prestige system also works out well) awards over achievers.

[Jezna]

Nightwave is a frustrating to me: I only have 0.5 - 1 hrs to play ANY GAME 5/7 days of the week, if that (and this may shock you, but I don't want to spend 4-5 hours catching up on the weekend, and for some things, like sorties, you can't - one a day only).  I feel like I can't risk not spending that time doing the Wolf content lest I not get that one Umbra forma that I assume can be used on one frame only.  So now Warframe is dictating what missions I spend my time on.  In addition, I can't put any time towards Hildryn or Orb Vallis extra stuff, or grinding void traces/prime parts that are refusing to drop/void relics for those prime parts/rare mods from bounties that are also refusing to drop.

I LIKE the concept of Nightwolf, but it is bottlenecking what content I get to and (feels like it is) forcing me to play some content that doesn't progress me towards the other things I want at all.  I am not sure how DE can best address this, but I am already frustrated that I sit down at my computer for my half hour of game time and feel immediately like there's only one choice for how to spend it - Nightwave content.  It honestly makes me want to go play another game because I don't want to mine or fish or do a sortie.

[PsychoSunshine]

We need to have a toggle for Nora's chime-ins like we have for Operators. I'm not a fan of Nora regurgitating the same three lines every time I complete an act, especially considering she mispronounces "cornucopia".

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

On 2019-03-04 at 1:47 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Hey Tenno,

Nightwave is here in all of it’s Nora Night-backed glory, and there has been a lot of back and forth (both on the forums and internally) about the challenges and how to accrue Nightwave standing. Series 1 of Nightwave is our first attempt at this addition to Warframe, and we want to thank you all for sharing your thoughts and requests. We will be using this thread to gather feedback from everyone on all Platforms! 

So at first pass, we are seeing some concerns rise to the top:

• Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.
• Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.
• Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

For some of these Elite challenges, we were attempting to speak to the endurance runners, but it seems we may have missed the mark - if you liked it, or didn't like it, comment below. In the end, we wanted to make a series of challenges that spoke to every type of player, but we do not want to do so at the cost of enjoyment overall.

Nightwave is still new to the community and we are expecting to see more feedback come as the series progresses - you've only seen a % of all Acts, so as Series 1 progresses we need your feedback on the appearing Acts. We've seen players responding with some possible solutions that would make these challenges more piecemeal, balance the resources needed to complete some challenges, and assess social requirements to get your goodies.

We will be applying what we have learned to Nightwave Series 2 - but can only improve with constructive, detailed posts about what you like / didn't like about acts. Knowing what you like is just as important as what you don't like. 
 

How long is each season of NightWave going to last and can we get more than 1 daily challenge along with more options to gain standing, then maybe add more to the credit offerings such as the original arcane helmets that gave small buffs and debuffs along with slots and componets to replace the minor looking skins which can be moved to daily alerts?

[Loswaith]

I'm of mixed minds with Nightwave.  While it is a great substitute for challenges, it feels like a poor substitute for Alerts.

Most of the Nightwave 'challenges' are simply doing what you do around the game, the dailies flavour it, while the weeklies force more tailored tasks.
This leaves it great if you generally like to multi-task your options, but also annoying as they fight for your time if those tasks lie else where.

The loss of alerts make the 'world' feel less alive and more player self-centered, as in the world isn't a thing that goes on around you to that it goes on because of you (while doing nothing where you aren't about).

As to Elite missions, these would be much better as specific missions than side tasks (though they could be the same as other missions), akin to how alerts worked (though could include both). 
This would mean that instead of a 60 minute survival being required to hit that 60 min 'challenge' point, thus dealing with the enemies at 40-60 mins.  It could be something special, for example the kuva survival could have had the same conditions but started as if enemies were at the 40 minute mark, maybe even including additional special enemies (like the Nightwatch, remember those guys?) in addition to the normal Kuva fortress enemies for that extra bit of oomph.  It would then only need to go for say 20 minutes, and avoid the 40 minutes of mostly tedium leading up to the end part.
This would not only result in a special mission, but also remove the tedium of the first 40 minutes and still offer the later 'challenge' of the 40-60 minute stage.  All the while avoiding issues that could cause the mission to end/fail due to bugs, connection issues or people simply causing failure to annoy others.
In the worst case Endurance missions could count in C rotations, even if it meant needing to do 100 mins of survival rather than the 60 mins, resulting in it actually able to be done across the week instead of in just 60 mins at some point during the week (letting endurance runners save time doing in in one sitting while others can take longer over multiple, with the bonus of all progression not being lost should issues occur).

 

Alerts would be great to return as well.  Even back in the early stages alerts gave the sense that there was a lot of stuff going on in the universe, and you couldn't help everyone (the biggest loss with them no longer about).  These were especially useful for new and intermediate players and got some better rewards (forma, potatoes and the like), while the credit rewards have remained much the same (though back then 3000 credits was a large reward, now it is essentially pocket change).  While letting veteran players provide help (direct or indirect) to the newer players for a dedicated chunk of time.

 

Some possible options:
- Ability to set a specific challenge to be tracked (shown on the escape menu), instead of a random one.
- As others have mentioned a weekly cap (lets say 45000) and a larger pool of possible challenges would be great, so that you can select what 'challenges' to do when wanted or suited to each player's desired play style (even if you can select only 5 as activated at any one time that progression goes to).

[Cuchullin]

5 hours ago, Kseung said:

Yes 1 hour survival might be too hard for some folks but I agree with what a lot of people already said, "it's an elite challenge for a reason". To be honest if the timer was reduced it would not be fun because enemies just aren't tough enough below that 1 hour mark.

To be fair not everyone said this it was other aspects (at least personally) of having a 1 hour mission with friends/clan members where people would just pick up random people in recruit chat, add to friend list ,do mission. It's basically several steps longer then just picking a mission in public mode.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Cuchullin

[Koekiewollie]

A problem with this system is that it's difficult for DE to come up with fair challenges for everyone.
Currenlty, difficulty of a challenge largely depends on the equipment someone has.

I have an idea...

What if players could earn a bit more standing if they use less mod capacity on their warframes/weapons?
This way, players can choose for themselves if they want to risk a mission with a weaker build and get a bigger reward in return.

DE could add a few challenges like this to nightwave to have a bit of an experiment with this.

Main benefits of this are:

• It creates an incentive for players to challenge themselves more
• Players can still choose how difficult they want to make a challenge
• Players still have a lot of freedom which equipment to use

Of course people can always choose to let them carry themselves by others, but that's not a big deal I think. It's only meant to create an incentive for players to seek more challenge.

What do you think?

Edited March 15, 2019 by Koekiewollie
typo

[mrEkli]

Lots of players in my clan are getting burnt out chasing these NW challenges. It's just not fun being bottlenecked into a playstyle. That's why different people are arguing and dissatistfied over each different week of challenges. We need OR challenges, many more challenges to do, and just excuses to play lots of different playstyles instead of being forced into someone else's style of grind. 

 

EDIT: DE if you want players to explore your options, leverage one of the biggest parts of the game, your community. If we are able to explore challenges in our tastes, we'll push other players to join us in doing such activities because we're having fun with it. Not some gated standing behind text that feels like a chore.

Edited March 15, 2019 by (NSW)mrEkli
Added edit note.

[v1ld_wf]

It's not just burn out, it's the perception that Nightwave gives of the direction DE is heading.  One where daily check ins and alertium go from being things you can choose to miss out if you don't care to where you must participate in a 10 week standing campaign to get necessary things to continue playing the game - Nitain is an obnoxious hindrance in the new system. 

Standing in general is a so-so system at best, one whose enjoyment is intimately tied to the fun of the tasks done to gain that standing.  But when tied to daily standing caps even that mitigation of fun tasks driving it is gone by forcing you to play at the pace dictated by those caps not at the pace dictated by your own enjoyment.  I quickly decided I would forgo all of the syndicates because of the first taste of daily standing caps and meaninglessly repetitive tasks with Simaris.  But the daily caps would make it drudgery even if the tasks were not so boring to do in the first place - the game is not letting you play at your own pace.

PoE's rep grind only reinforced this feeling when I finally engaged with it to build a 223 amp - the daily standing caps made it extremely unfun to engage with it, spoiling both the current day when I had time and was having fun by capping me, but also spoiling the next day when I re-engaged with the game only to be reminded I had to grind out my PoE rep quota for the day.

But all of that was not a problem - the rewards from syndicate rep can be traded, so if you don't wish to play that system, you can just organically play the game and trade any good drops you get to buy the stuff you want from other players (I did purchase a 1000 plat purely as a way to say thank you to DE).  I thought this was brilliant design - a good way to allow for different types of enjoyment within the one game. 

The new Nightwave system doubles down on standing and takes it in even newer directions that don't bode well long term.  The daily standing cap is replaced by time-limited standing sources which may seem similar but is made much worse for the player by two new additions to standing as a means to force people to engage with the game at the game's terms:

1. The standing has limited validity - it will stop being useful in 10 weeks when the current story ends and a new story is begun with its own new standing currency.  That it may again be valid in a year or two when this is re-run is quite irrelevant, the problem is that you have a forced engagement system whose currency is invalid for large periods of time - the majority of the time in fact when looked at over a period of say a year or two.
2. Standing is earned from time-limited tasks where skipping a week or two is no longer just delaying your goals by a week or two but will remove that week or two's currency forever from your reach, limiting what can be earned by you. 

The if you don't play, you don't earn argument that seems to come up a lot in the discussion of Nightwave and it misses the point here - if I don't play for a few weeks, I don't earn rewards, yes.  But if I pick up the game and play I earn exactly those things I would have earned by playing those two weeks.  That is not true of Nightwave - and it is even the point of the design of Nightwave in the first place to make a hard distinction between how long you play and when you play.  It is trying to make you play every week and every day if possible in a much more direct and forced way than even the standing caps do.

Nightwave by itself has many problems.  But Nightwave as an indicator of where the game is heading is a much bigger problem.

Don't double down on standing and forced play.  Give your players the flexibility to play what they want to and when they want to and they'll keep coming back.

It is still incumbent on you to come up with fun tasks to do - the 1 hour Kuva Survival is obviously fun to many.  But you need to come up with fun rewards and motivators too, not force you to engage by taking away the ability to play elsewhere in the game (Nitain again).

[(XBOX)PhoenixReviving]

My two cents:

1. I have a lot of endo-poor friends who are now hoarding unfilled ayatans. These poor people are hurting for endo and staring longingly at the four or five unfilled endo sources they're having to keep in case the ayatan challenge comes around again. Five is too much - consider knocking it down to 3. Many people spent hours grinding missions with a catabombing limbo, only to still fail that challenge because of bad rng. 

2. I personally loved the survivals, but that's because I happen to have a 4-forma tank nekros and a godly amprex riven. I had fun the first time, and the second... After that, with so many newer clan members asking for help, I got quite tired of them. I also had very little time to work towards my own goals each night, because such a large portion of the warframe player base isn't quite equipped for that last 15 minutes. 

My armchair suggestions for how to make improvements to problems like these:

1. Give us choices. Give us a choice of 5 elite weeklies, and tell us to pick any 3.

2. Allow things like the hour survival to be cumulative - that way, I can do one whole hour at a time and enjoy myself, but my clan mates can do 3 20-minute runs and still be fine. 

3. Readjust the wolf cred economy. New players, who are precisely the ones who rely on this system for nitain and auras, have to wait two or three weeks to get a few wolf creds. You could either make everything cheaper in the cred store, or give out more wolf creds. I might further suggest doling out creds more often, even if the quantities are smaller. Give out at least a few every week, so that new players can at least grab a nitain pack in a pinch.