Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)NickTomm said:

Was going to point out how ridiculous the gild and forma challenges are, but I wouldn't be the first, nor second.... nor third.

This is borderline stupid. As everyone else pointed out before me, this might be kind of OK with low MR players who are still ranking up weapons, but then you have MR 26 players as myself forcefully spending time and formas on things that don't even need them. Complete certain types of missions? Cool. Catch rare fish? Fine. Forma things just for the sake of doing so? Ehhh, what?

Honestly.

 Just after affinity weekend too, and without a booster it’s even more grueling.

[(PSN)Navalhabr]

Wrost nightwave. 

1hour kuva = GOOD [Skill, challenge, love it]

Resource/time-gates = BAD DESIGN, BAD DEVELOPMENT, BAD BEHAVIOR.

Play with "friends" = Region Chat, Begging for help, New Temporary frind, Chek Chek.

 

Mr.26 here... have all modulars [9 of 7 Amp's] Nice DE, very good! 

 

Ninjas play without(Free)will! 

by digital Extremes-Arts 

[Kjahla81]

Nightwave friend/clan challenges that completely ruins it.  So basically I might need to leave my clan?  Not to mention it's tied once again to 5k standing. That's not elite. That's punishing. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Kjahla81

[(NSW)Bromsson]

I knew this was gonna happen. Switch players just got fortuna a couple of weeks ago and you expect them to be rank of old mate with fortuna to fight the profit taker? That's a ridiculous assumption.

[(XBOX)Tornicade]

Yes the rare fish again....i dont even know what rare fish is without looking it up on wiki and i know for a fact the cetus tier2 spear requires multiple hits...the forma challenge ...lol i just formad a frame...yeah people can pass on these challenges as they did alerts but you could run 8 alerts in less than two hours while passing up on alerts.....you have added a tier progression reward system where people have to do almost 3 tiers a week to get to tier 30 so they are gonna choose not to pass so they can tier up as fast as possible...why not weekly quest objectives..like cut bait 30 times...this week it feels like stuff for the upcoming tutorial got mixed in

[DeltaPangaea]

Yeah I could do without the cruddy forma and gilding challenges, thanks.

[(PSN)JustitiaCaelum]

I am with the others on the absurdity of forcing us to gild an item/spend forma when we don't need to. These are taken straight from the achievement page, and while they are part of the natural progress of them game, a lot of players have already moved well pass that stage, while new players will struggle to meet these requirements. 3 forma means 3 days of crafting if you don't spend plat. Not to mention the modular parts are locked behind cetus/fortuna ranks, which new players have lower standing caps for. 

I also want to point out the good: 1500 kills is a good example to follow. Sure it is very easy, but it is the fact that it doesn't lock you into a long session if you don't have the time, just chip away over 7 days. More of this and less 60min "challanges" please. 

I want to appeal to the decision that our "feedback will be applied to series 2". I understand everone in the office are busy, but feedback need to be addressed as soon as possible. There are still 7 full weeks ahead! Would it not make sense to get rid of the nonsense achievement-as-challenges and give us a continuously improving experience, instead of "here is series 2 where your feedback may or may not have mattered"? Players have been voicing their various frustrations for over 3 weeks. We like you guys because you are always up front with us. NOW is the time to take action and address these frustrations in game. 

[(XBOX)Earth Nuggets]

51 minutes ago, (NSW)Bromsson said:

I knew this was gonna happen. Switch players just got fortuna a couple of weeks ago and you expect them to be rank of old mate with fortuna to fight the profit taker? That's a ridiculous assumption.

My God, that's true! Seriously, I dread the start of the week to see what idiotic stuff they have in store for me. This week is possibly the worst yet. I enjoyed the Kuva Survival, liked the Exterminate without detection (it's a Riven challenge anyway), but the Forma and gilding are beyond ridiculous and likely a waste of time for most. Also, please, take the hint and drop the friend requirement already! I only have two friends who play currently and neither are up to Vox Solaris, so thanks for making me add a random for one challenge. I absolutely despise Nightwave.

Edited March 18, 2019 by (XB1)Earth Nuggets

[Borg1611]

Even though several people already criticized the new weeklies and I upvoted all their posts, I just want to emphasize that the gild and forma weeklies are ridiculous. They even come dangerously close to pay to win territory if they aren't already in it. 

You should forma things when you want to do so because you're going to use them and want them to be more powerful. You should craft and gild things for that reason as well. Doing so just for the sake of a weekly is absurd and 100x worse even than the concept of mastery fodder.

I happen to be building Hildryn so I'll probably just forma her, but it still shouldn't be a weekly (and is also highly annoying since I just used like 6 forma in the past few days and would have just waited until today if I knew there was going to be a forma weekly). 

[Kjahla81]

Forma weapon 3 times:

Vet/long term players- not problem I have a surplus on hand but why?

New player- ok, just need to get the BPs, find the resources to build them, and then wait 24hrs for each one or spend plat on them. Not a problem at all. 

Gild a modular weapon.

Vet/long term players- I have all of them so why?

New player- not a problem just need to raise my daily standing, gather resources, and the get right on it.

Kill profit taker with friend/clanmate

Vet/long term players- hope someone is online but not a problem. 

New player-  what the hell is that?

See the issue here. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Kjahla81

[(PSN)ArcAvenger89]

So apparently DE decided this week that it is ok if a challenge is something that tells people when to use forma and when to guild a modular item. While this isnt crazy hard these are things that players should do at thier own pace not something where you have to force your self to do it within one particular week just for challenge points. 

Also making using forma as a challenge is not a good idea especially for new players. This again isnt so much about difficulty but because its making them put forma into weapon or warframes they still dont completely understand which means they might forma giving polarities they might think are good only to find out when they are advance players that some or all of the polarities were a waste of time and forma causing them to have to use even more forma to fix thier original mistakes. Some people will say, but newbies make those mistakes already anyways and while this is true its a little different when your telling people use 3 formas quick. Imagine a newbie who has a bit of forma and thanks to this challenges put all that forma into one of the starter weapons not because they want to but because it is all they have at the moment and since its a challenge they now have to do it or miss out on points.

[Redlove108]

Yea I think the main problem with Nightwave right now is just the time restrictions. Better off to not have it all. Hell not even the seasonal thing but an episodic thing. This way future players aren't missing out on anything and can play through the previous nightwave challenges and complete the episode of it and move on to the next one. Future players could also pick between current and past episodes to do without feeling the pressure to clock in hours to complete content that they will miss out on.

Just an idea.

[CrossMind]

Last weeks challenges were OK for me. All were solo-able.

And for a brief moment, I was like "Oh good, DE is listening to player's feedback"

Today, that "with friend/clanmate" is coming back. WTH

I'm in Ghost clan. It's me the founder, and also me the only member there.

People on my friend list (Xbox live) are mostly from another game. They were MR0, and last time they were online (in Warframe) was 2000 years ago.

[dpencil]

1. Gild something - for me, I still had my original Mote amp ungilded, so this was super simple, but I sympathize with people who already built and gilded everything or those who recently gilded something, or aren't in a position to make/level one quick enough.

2. Forma - I used a forma earlier today on a weapon. Would have been nice to know I could have waited and gotten one use that I was already intending. As others have said, this can put players who already have their weapons in the place they want them in an awkward position, and seems like an odd request given that one of the Nightwave rewards is 3 forma.

3. Profit Taker - I am only about half way through the Fortuna rep grind, and because of hard daily caps, there will be no way for me to reach Old Mate by the end of the week. This is a bummer, as I had intended from the start of Nightwave to do every challenge. If I could grind out standing beyond the daily cap to get there, I absolutely would. I wish selling gems/fish didn't count toward the standing cap, only bounties.

All the other challenges are super easy, but these three have problems. I didn't have an issue with any of the challenges from the first three weeks, personally, but this time I have to agree with the crowd.

[diaversai]

Thinking about it, acquire three forma would probably have been better than use three forma. That would've been a teaching moment on how relics are great for getting forma. 

[(PSN)JustitiaCaelum]

An idea post:

What if we get rid of the 30 ranks and make those rewards purchasable using a generalized "nightwave cred" which doesn't expire? 

Hypothetical numbers here: a daily act gives 1 cred, weekly gives 3 (no more "elite acts" because the alerts werent challenging anyway). If we get ~20 creds/week, we can then easily tune the rewards prices.

-Alt helm and weapon skins would cost 10 so you can at most pick 2 alt helms you want every week. You will eventually run out of things to buy from this category. (I would hope very few people actually bought the alt helms for 75 plat anyway) 

-Potato will cost 50 so you can at most get 1 potato per month and nitain can be 10 to 15 creds for a bundle of 3, which should be a decent compromise between earning money from us and respecting our time commitment because you are likely not spending every cred on potato/nitain and nothing else. 

-Other rank up rewards will cost more, but since nightwave cred won't expire after the series, you can still work towards them. Something like 200 for the armor or syandana, and 50 for the sigils and gestures. Umbral forma can also cost 200, so we at most get 1 every 10 weeks. 

The advantages should be obvious. We will truly be able to play at our own pace. Players can join the game at any point  during any series, and their effort will eventually lead to the same rewards, so no more unlucky tenno who joins 5 weeks into the wolf series and will never get the armor set. Then some people can finally tell us "if you don't like the challenge you can skip it" as a valid point because we will not miss out on anything, just takes longer. We can still have different series, probably telling stories about different interesting characters. The acts can also be more related to the story e.g. The wolf is on jupiter this week, the weekly act can be complete 20 missions on jupiter. Just by removing the time limit on these rewards, I am sure player can enjoy the game moreat their own pace. After all, that is what the alert system was: if you catch that alert you get reward, but it will always come back. 

[Dauggie]

please dont add challenges like buidling a weapon (zaw kitguns) and using forma's. these are valuable resources and a old player like me who has everything mastered. it feels like a waste of resources if i'm forced into building something that is not required. please look into this.

[Dauggie]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)JustitiaCaelum said:

An idea post:

What if we get rid of the 30 ranks and make those rewards purchasable using a generalized "nightwave cred" which doesn't expire? 

Hypothetical numbers here: a daily act gives 1 cred, weekly gives 3 (no more "elite acts" because the alerts werent challenging anyway). If we get ~20 creds/week, we can then easily tune the rewards prices.

-Alt helm and weapon skins would cost 10 so you can at most pick 2 alt helms you want every week. You will eventually run out of things to buy from this category. (I would hope very few people actually bought the alt helms for 75 plat anyway) 

-Potato will cost 50 so you can at most get 1 potato per month and nitain can be 10 to 15 creds for a bundle of 3, which should be a decent compromise between earning money from us and respecting our time commitment because you are likely not spending every cred on potato/nitain and nothing else. 

-Other rank up rewards will cost more, but since nightwave cred won't expire after the series, you can still work towards them. Something like 200 for the armor or syandana, and 50 for the sigils and gestures. Umbral forma can also cost 200, so we at most get 1 every 10 weeks. 

The advantages should be obvious. We will truly be able to play at our own pace. Players can join the game at any point  during any series, and their effort will eventually lead to the same rewards, so no more unlucky tenno who joins 5 weeks into the wolf series and will never get the armor set. Then some people can finally tell us "if you don't like the challenge you can skip it" as a valid point because we will not miss out on anything, just takes longer. We can still have different series, probably telling stories about different interesting characters. The acts can also be more related to the story e.g. The wolf is on jupiter this week, the weekly act can be complete 20 missions on jupiter. Just by removing the time limit on these rewards, I am sure player can enjoy the game moreat their own pace. After all, that is what the alert system was: if you catch that alert you get reward, but it will always come back. 

the rewards will also come back, just like every other item in warframe. no need to change anything. the tenno who missed few weeks well it's their fault since warframe keeps posting about every update on all of their social platforms. it probably will come back as baro items after few months

[(PSN)Ephredine]

The return of the challenge clan / friend as I thought super - 5000 points ...

[(NSW)Katsuro]

2 hours ago, (NSW)Bromsson said:

I knew this was gonna happen. Switch players just got fortuna a couple of weeks ago and you expect them to be rank of old mate with fortuna to fight the profit taker? That's a ridiculous assumption.

me and my clanmate got max rank in fortuna weeks ago :v

[(XBOX)Earth Nuggets]

Just in case someone is wondering, gilding the Mote Amp counts toward the challenge. Hopefully you abandoned that sucker long before maxing it out, like me. 😆

[Brasten]

Week 4 Challenges comments: I expect a GIFT to all players of 3 Forma before the week is done.

Synopsis: A mixed bag. We have a set of "Acts" that are very doable causally and feel like they'd be at home in the old Alert system. Then we have some just really bad ones. One is an outright offensive "please buy with Plat to complete". Another is less blunt about that PAY angle, but it's way to close to be comfortable.

Once again we have a set of Challenges that do not in any way feel like the casual pick-up and play of random alert offerings. Some are again hard-coded gates that a newer player cannot do.

• Elite, Unlock Relics: Unlock 0/10
  • This is okay. It is not to crazy time waste to collect 10 relics if you don't have any banked.
    • This would be BAD if required Radiant Relics. Do not every do that. Collecting 1000 Traces in a week of casual or semi casual play is a hard pass.
• Elite, Kill Shot: Kill 1500 Enemies
  • This is okay. 1.5k enemy murder it doable in a week.
    • 250 a day over 6 days to be safe. This will happen as you play.
    • Although it will be challenge for players in the Early (Earth to Jupiter) and Mid (Jupiter to Uranus) game, and may require a dedicated slaughter day.
• Elite, Kill Proit-Taker with Friends: Kill Profit-Taker while playing with a friend or clanmate.
  • DE, I know you can't change the these, but no more.
  • This forced socialization is bad. Please acknowledge in a Development Blog post that this will not be repeated in future Nightwaves.
  • In the future this should qualify while playing with at least 1 other person in an Invite or Friends toggled squad. That's what these Squad settings are for. So we don't have to do the awkward dances of Friend/Un-Friend.
  • At least it's better than the 60 minute Survival, and the Sortie with Friend.
    • Sortie with Friend was bad because the completion was tagged to the Award grant on Mission 3. You could not Replay a Sortie in the same day and have it pop.
    • 60 minute Survival was just NO.
• Rescuer: Complete 0/3 Rescue missions
  • Good. Works like a Rescue Alert in the old system.
• Protector: Complete 0/3 Mobile Defense missions.
  • Good. Works like a Mobile Defense Alert in the old system.
• Polarized: Use Forma 0/3 times
  • 
  • This is the Aytan socketing Act, but way worse. Oh so very much worse.
  • If you don't have Forma banked you now have to farm BPs which can be very RNG.
  • Forma has 1 Per day build limit. THIS IS A MASSIVE PROBLEM IF YOU COME IN LATE ON THE WEEK
  • THIS IS PAY FOR STANDING!
    • It encourages paying Platinum for the Forma Bundle
    • Playing Plat is the ONLY OPTION if you don't have Forma banked and come in late.
      • Either the Bundle
      • Or to Rush construction.
• Operative: Complete 0/3 Spy missions
  • Good. Works like a Spy Alert system in the old system.
• Gilded: Gild 0/1 Modular Items
  • This, is not a good trend for Nightwave.
  • This requires a player to have a Free Slot to dedicate to this process. Especially if they've already completed crafting and Gilding various Modular Items.
    • Again we see PAY FOR STANDING creeping into this.
    • This also requires some major power leveling that Early (Earth to Jupiter) and Mid (Jupiter to Uranus) game players may find difficult to complete in a Week without major dedicated grind. Possibly encouraging desperation buying of "Daily Deals" from Hub (Cetus/Fortuna) vendors.
  • Crafting times are not as horrible as the Forma, but Resource Collection could be a significant problem for Early game players.
    • Faction Standing for the Parts
    • Freeroam resource mining, and crafting.
  • This DOES NOT MATCH well with the casual pickup and play aspect of the old Alerts.
• Eliminator: Complete 0/3 Exterminate missions.
  • Good. Works like a Exterminate Alert in the old system.
• Earth Fisher: Catch 0/6 Rare Fish in the Plains of Eidolon.
  • Meh, can also be Not Good.
  • Difficult for Early players without banked Rare Fish baits.
    • Unlike the Fortuna Baits, Cetus Baits require escalating Fish parts to craft. Common parts, build to Uncommon bait, builds to Rare baits.
  • Can be "Taxied" by veteran players tossing out Rare bait for newer players.
    • Which the only saving grace of this "Act". And makes it kind of like the old Alert System.

[Horyzon]

The Trilodon kill you required earlier was bad enough. At least some poor newbie could have some kind soul(s) carry them through that fight and get their Nightwave credit. I imagine many weren't able to, but it was within the realm of possibility.

But Profit Taker? That's just absurd. Friend or not, who cares? You could just invite some random person and do it together like I did for the Sorties one earlier. 

But.. Profit Taker? Really? You have to be MAX freaking rank with Solaris before you can even attempt that fight. This requires literally weeks of grinding.

In case you forgot, DE, you structured this game with rep grind gates that have a daily cap based on a player's MR. I'm MR 16, already a Cove with 60k+ rep towards max rank. And even I will need a couple days of grinding rep to even be able to even attempt it. Three whole days of grinding, to be exact, since I need just over the 34k I can get in two days.

Mind you, I have that extra 60k rep because I had already been grinding some rep after getting my kitgun because I felt like doing the Profit Taker fight. Just for the luls. Not because grinding rep in Fortuna is fun, or because killing Profit Taker is all that necessary. It honestly isn't. Either "it."

I plan to get it done. At the very least, it is totally possible for me to get it done. That's fine for me. I'm not here complaining for myself.

This is literally impossible for people missing more rep (for MAX freaking rank!) than their MR will allow them to gain in a <7 day period.

Even if you have a mental breakdown, abandon all family, friends, and responsibility, and do nothing but play Warframe for 24 hours straight for a whole week.. presumably forcing yourself awake with.. let's say caffeine for the sake of younger readers. This would still be quite literally impossible if you are beyond a certain Rep threshold as determined by your MR and the corresponding daily cap.

That's 5000 Nightwave points you can't even attempt to get.

Because F you, Dreamers.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Horyzon
What? Doesn't everyone waste their life proof reading and editing forum posts for fluidity?

[Xaero]

In case you forgot, you can skip this task and still get all the rewards from the pool.

[Horyzon]

2 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

In case you forgot, you can skip this task and still get all the rewards from the pool.

Really? That's pretty obvious and so yes I had already realized that. But.. thanks?

 

DE said players would need to do something like 67% of the weekly tasks to get the rank 30 rewards from Nightwave season 1. That's reasonable imo. But a task like this is automatically placed firmly in that 33% that won't--or in this case can't--be done, without any choice to the player. For a significant amount of players, I would wager.

If DE decides that's indeed their intention. Uhh.. alright? It is their game after all. And I said I intend to not be one of those players thus affected. So no real harm to me.. but it's not difficult to imagine how unpleasant this would feel if I were one of those affected players.