Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[StratosOmega]

This "dilemma" kind of reminds me of the past. When we had alerts still, I saw a couple of players frequently asking why they would lock alerts behind hard to reach planets or even subplanets they haven't unlocked yet.

Yes, I'm talking about quest gated areas.

Basically we look at the same kind of "problem": there is content, Digital Extremes sees that their content has been taken in and is established as part of the game by the community, they start to implement the new content into systems that use the game's content, people start to complain about said content being part of the system

Yes, it is only accessible through work. Unlockables in a game, expansions. Do you want DE to not use their areas and content since it is not part of the "base" experience? They clearly see it differently, these are parts of the game, as are the nightwave's rewards, and you can be sure most of those nightwave rewards will either return in a future nightwave or as new creds purchasables. You cannot possibly miss out on something completely if they don't claim so (as they do with Tennocon cosmetics or the founder gear).

[Syasob]

32 minutes ago, Lodeion said:

Yeah, but it's fun for me and people like me. I think it's possible to satisfy both people who like and people who dislike 1-hour challenges, and that's what I want.

If it's fun for you to run 1h missions you're free to go do it. Just don't ask for other players to share your hobby.

[Fiveel]

2 minutes ago, Syasob said:

If it's fun for you to run 1h missions you're free to go do it. Just don't ask for other players to share your hobby.

1. I want it to be fun AND rewarding.

2. I am not asking for that.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

35 minutes ago, Lodeion said:

Yeah, but it's fun for me and people like me. I think it's possible to satisfy both people who like and people who dislike 1-hour challenges, and that's what I want.

Perhaps if the challenge was “Complete an accumulative 60 minutes of survival”= 5,000

This way players like you can enjoy playing an hour while the rest of us plug away at it 5-10 minutes at a time all week.

[(PSN)solartorch81]

Next week elite challenge  most likely  be arbitration.  Most will not be able to do it as they have not clear the star chart.

[Fiveel]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

Perhaps if the challenge was “Complete an accumulative 60 minutes of survival”= 5,000 

This way players like you can enjoy playing an hour while the rest of us plug away at it 5-10 minutes at a time all week.

That sounds alright, just it would have to be added to the counter if you successfully extract - that way I couldn't get the challenge for failing to get to 1 hour twice.

[Tsukinoki]

58 minutes ago, Lodeion said:

1. They encourage players to upgrade equipment and learn mechanics of the game: Without these acts, there are no good reasons to push weapons and frames to their limits.
2. Survival missions are very fun above 20 minutes and it's probably the best content Warframe has at the moment. The new bosses can be more frustrating than fun.
3. Without Nightwave rewards, long survival missions are not rewarding enough to do them instead of more rewarding content - no matter how fun they are.
4. If other activities are included into Nightwave, and survival doesn't, in a way it becomes even less rewarding than other content.

1 is just patently wrong.  People upgrade their gear regardless of acts, and the hour long survival did not "push weapons and frames" to their limits...it just pushed how long you could stay awake while button mashing for 60 straight minutes with absolutely no way to take a break.
By the end of the hour I was still one shotting everything the Grineer could throw at me and the only difficulty was not falling asleep on the keyboard, and I hadn't even switched to using melee which once a combo starts could have been one shotting far harder and for far longer.

2 is very subjective.  A one hour kuva survival without using towers? It was tedious and very dull and boring killing the same enemies in the same 3 tiles for 60 minutes with absolutely zero change and zero difficulty.
I find profit take, or especially exploiter orb, much more entertaining than mindlessly mashing the same keys for 60 straight minutes without pause.

3 is again very subjective.  Even with 5K standing the long survival wasn't very rewarding...I only did it because the game essentially twists your arm into doing it, not because it was fun.

4, again very subjective.  And DE has stated multipel times that they want more of the bit-sized crowd than the people who sit for 4 hours in a single mission, barely moving from the same spot.

In the end the hour long challenges were...purely tedium with little reward, and no fun, challenge, or interest because all you honestly did was fight your own boredom and trying not to fall asleep during the mission.

1 hour ago, Lodeion said:

Negatives of 1-hour acts (Why people dislike them):

1. It may be difficult/impossible to complete without a team.
2. It is impossible to complete for people who can't play for 1 hour at a time.
3. It's not for a new players.
4. They might be too easy for hardcore players.

1 is wrong, the only difficulty was staying awake for the entire hour.
And can you imagine an hour long survival on its own without the kuva one?  Most people would just do Venus or Mercury survivals and by the end of the hour they wouldn't even be sortie level.
So difficulty isn't really a thing with this challenge, just pure tedium.

2 and 3 are very true, and also add in the tedium, boringness, and just uncormfortableness because you can't just take a break if you say, need to go to the bathroom or something, in the middle without losing all of your progress.  But hey, that adds another challenge: Can you hold your bladder for long enough to finish the mission?
And for some people its "Hey, try not to get a migraine from all of the constant screen-shake and flashing lights for one solid hour with no way to pause and take a breather!"
How is that a good thing in any way?
An hour long challenge doesn't just push things in game, it pushes physical endurance and can cause issues for people IRL.  This is not something that a game should be enforcing onto its players.

4 is also very true.  Players like myself just find the entire thing boring because its "One shot enemies for 60 minutes with absolutely zero change in enemy composition or tiles!"  There is no fun or enjoyment in a 60 minute challenge...just a lot of time wasted.
The only good thing about that challenge was how it allowed me to overcome a few challenges in that single one hour burst.  If it hadn't let me do a decent amount of the weeklies and daily it would have been even more annoying to spend one solid hour...and only have one challenge completed by the end of it.

3 minutes ago, Lodeion said:

1. I want it to be fun AND rewarding.

2. I am not asking for that.

Good luck making an hour long mission staring at the same enemies in the same tiles "fun", especially when you're one-shotting them the entire time.
And you essentially are.  People who want to maximize the amount of wolf cred they get so that they can buy what they want from the cred store are basically having their arms twisted into doing the missions regardless if they want to, or should.

1 hour ago, Lodeion said:

Other suggestions:

1. If skipping is a problem, there could more challenges available with a cap on how many challenges can be completed each week.
2. Challenges could be made shorter in length if the difficulty of 1-hour survival was accessible earlier.
3. I also wouldn't mind if elite acts were made more difficult to make hardcore players interested.

So, yeah, I 100% support 1-hour acts. I think they are/were a great addition to the game - like the rest of Nightwave.

1) There would need to be a standing cap, not a "number of challenges" cap, otherwise by not doing the 5K 1 hour survival I'm just hurting how much standing I gain for the week...which is exactly the current problem with skipping it.

2) By the end of the hour long challenges they were still in sortie difficulty, and that's sortie difficulty without enhanced armor/shields/elemental resistance.  So its not like its hard to get to that level of difficulty.
Honestly I think they should just break it up into "Do 3 C rotations of Survival", that way you can split it up into 3 twenty minute runs or 1 hour long run depending on what you're free, able, and comfortable to do.

3) I wouldn't mind more difficult acts, but hour long missions are not the way to go about it.
The game should be testing your skills in game, not your physical limits of how long you can go without a bathroom break, or how long you can go without getting a major migraine.

I support nightwave.  I just don't support forced hour long missions that are a physical stress test more than a gear stress test.

[Xylia]

1 hour ago, Lodeion said:

EDIT: "I think it's possible to satisfy both people who like and people who dislike 1-hour challenges, and that's what I want."

When Nightwave came out, I was very satisfied with its elite weekly 1-hour acts and I want more of them - it's a second week without them and I'm getting worried I'm not going to get them again.

I know these acts have been getting a lot of negative feedback from the community, but there are people who love these challenges, and I think it's fair for those people to have them. Especially because 1-hour acts don't seem to harm players who don't like them.

Positives of 1-hour acts (Why I and others like them):

1. They encourage players to upgrade equipment and learn mechanics of the game: Without these acts, there are no good reasons to push weapons and frames to their limits.
2. Survival missions are very fun above 20 minutes and it's probably the best content Warframe has at the moment. The new bosses can be more frustrating than fun.
3. Without Nightwave rewards, long survival missions are not rewarding enough to do them instead of more rewarding content - no matter how fun they are.
4. If other activities are included into Nightwave, and survival doesn't, in a way it becomes even less rewarding than other content.

Negatives of 1-hour acts (Why people dislike them):

1. It may be difficult/impossible to complete without a team.
2. It is impossible to complete for people who can't play for 1 hour at a time.
3. It's not for a new players.
4. They might be too easy for hardcore players.

It's possible to unlock all of the rewards while skipping 1 or 2 weekly challenges, so people affected by negatives can safely skip the undesired acts. If that is not the case, it should be - that's way better option than removing niche acts from Nightwave.

Other suggestions:

1. If skipping is a problem, there could more challenges available with a cap on how many challenges can be completed each week.
2. Challenges could be made shorter in length if the difficulty of 1-hour survival was accessible earlier.
3. I also wouldn't mind if elite acts were made more difficult to make hardcore players interested.

So, yeah, I 100% support 1-hour acts. I think they are/were a great addition to the game - like the rest of Nightwave.

You forgot this in Negatives:

1-Hour P2P Connections are not reliable, and a disconnect in the middle of it means you lose EVERYTHING and it thus becomes a gambling and many people hate gambling.

You also forgot griefers suck, the people who will pop an air canister at 59 minutes just to screw 3 other people over.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Xylia

[Fiveel]

10 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

*all that*

You can't tell me what to like and what to feel rewarded about. It IS subjective. Do you think I am lying when I say that I like it?

10 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

People who want to maximize the amount of wolf cred they get so that they can buy what they want from the cred store are basically having their arms twisted into doing the missions regardless if they want to, or should. 

Are they though? There's limited amount of cred rewards, and you'll get them all by the end of season if you complete most of the acts every week. If not, it needs to be changed.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Lodeion

[Xylia]

This.... is closer to being reasonable, except for the Profit-Taker mission.

Do 3 Exterminates/Spy (I hate Spy, btw... but I'll take it)/3 Void Relics, all reasonable stuff, even for newbies, even the Void Relics can be done by newbies as they can spam Everest or something to get the Relics and then go do Lowbie fissures) is reasonable enough.

Kill 1500 enemies in a week? That's not that hard, I can do 150+ in one mission on Everest (I did like 5 of those last week because of all the elemental kills) and indeed the first daily is "kill 200" so that's already 1/7th of the way there.

Catch 6 fish in PoE ... meh. I did the Vallis one last week, wasn't That hard. And I forget what else was on the weekly but I don't remember it being that bad, I remember there being another objective I was thinking "Meh, skip" in the 3k ones.

IIRC, I should be able to reliably get all but 8k, leaving me 5k above the weekly necessity to get Rank30 which helps offset one of the earlier weeks being so terrible.

Keep going in this direction and maybe Nightwave won't be too bad.

As long as we stay away from those terrible 60 minute endless mission ones, that is.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Xylia

[--PV--Arc]

Rest of the challenges were ok but THIS IS NOT OKAY. You are actively forcing players to either play their game 24/7 to unlocked the million and one thing's in the game or miss out on rewards. I did NOT ask for this. I DID NOT want this.

 

I LITERALLY cannot complete this week's challenges. This is NOT OK.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Arc2199

[Jarriaga]

My stockpile of unused built Forma went from 37 to 34  😕

Edited March 18, 2019 by Jarriaga

[DebrisFlow]

1 hour ago, Lodeion said:

Negatives of 1-hour acts (Why people dislike them):

5. They are BORING

 

1 hour ago, Lodeion said:

Other suggestions

4. You can do 1h survivals whenever you want, no need for a NW challenge to tell you to do so.

[xXIcyBladeXx]

Forma a Grakata or something idk jeez.

[DarkestOfBreads]

I do not want to waste 3 forma that required me multiple days to craft just for a mission when i dont even need to polarize anything, same with gilding, why craft a weapon to gild it for a mission when you dont need it at all at the moment, whats the point.

Im aware that i only need like 60% of these nightwave missions but still, why.

[HellVOps]

If only I could downvote...... 

Edit: The original post that I was referring to was merged with megathread, No hard feelings against other feedbacks.

Edited March 18, 2019 by HellVOps

[llamabrown]

After reading this thread I am now convinced the majority of people in here don't remember what low MR people are doing in Warframe. Someone said MR 1 players can grind out Fortuna rep? Can buy their way to Fortuna rep? With what exactly? Low MR folks most likely haven't even touched Fortuna BTW. They are struggling to get the bullet jump daily done and the toxic kills one as well because RNG still governs the toxic mod drop. They don't even understand what Nightwave is. How do I know all this? I spent my weekend Warframe play time helping 2 friends that are MR 1 and 2 just get the Mercury junction open and farm credits for later. We had no time for Fortuna. If we messed about in Fortuna, Mercury would still be closed. Just for the record, I am MR 14 and haven't had time for grinding Fortuna at all yet. I just got Revenant with my lvl 16 mote amp. 

I am very concerned that new players may not be able to get the new Warframe slot or the weapon slots and Aura mods before the offerings change. I think that is part of what the OP was trying to say.

Learning another system at the beginning is so overwhelming. Where in the priority list of different factions does Nightwave fall? Below the syndicates but above quills? Below Solaris but above Vox? Above Simaris? Should they stop going through the star chart to grind mining on POE and Fortuna? Even if the mobs could wreck them? I didn't even try to explain Nightwave with my two friends. Nightwave feels completely directed at the bored veterans of Warframe at this point. 

I'm not advocating for total abandonment, but there needs to be some data analysis of who is doing what in Nightwave. Then please adjust accordingly. Nightwave has made everything a priority. When everything is a priority, then nothing is a priority. 

[bibmobello]

3 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Because Veterans who have formatted everything they wanted have a problem with Formas ?

Yeah, sure.

Anyway, not everything should be aimed at pleasing you. The 3 forma stuff displeases you, while the Profit Taker one displeases someone else. Deal with it.

But you have to consider that most veterans are  old and invalid after so many battles.

[Fiveel]

8 minutes ago, DebrisFlow said:

5. They are BORING

 

4. You can do 1h survivals whenever you want, no need for a NW challenge to tell you to do so.

Wow, guys, c'mon - the main topic is pretty clear on this: I want 1-hour survival challenges for people who like them, and an option to skip them for people who don't.

Imagine that, people can like different things.

[Chewarette]

1 hour ago, (PS4)sweeneytodd1999 said:

If you are mr 16 to 27 you can literally do any weapon you want it would literally take you maybe like 30 minutes to maximum out three weapon. The challenges are not hard 

The challenge doesn't even require you to level the weapon as far as I understand, you just have to apply the forma and gtfo. So pick 3 unused weapons, apply the forma and forget about them entirely. 

[Ultimatesoup]

il y a 46 minutes, DrivaMain a dit :

Sign of prestige? Understandable.

Given how easy the game is and how it is easy to get geared (Althought very time-consuming), I don't think it can even be viewed as a sign of prestige, and people who view themselves as "Hardcore Elite completionist gamers"  for doing the " ((((((Elite))))) Challenges" must have very low standards.

Edit : Frankly, the Nightwave system would have been okay-ish if alerts were still here. Without? It's a pretty garbage system. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Ultimatesoup

[Benour]

If you low lvl mastery rank then you dont give a damn about Wolf challenges. You do the challenges you can, get as far in rewards as you can and thats it. Obviously this seasson event is not focused on newbies (good thing imo). Newbs has different tasks anyway they have to progress first to be able to reach the maximum reward and even then you need what 60% challenges done? To kind, if i was making such challenge with so many cool rewards it would be MUCH harder. 

[-HoB-AngelofRevenge]

2 hours ago, Kimimoto said:

Yeah my 63 forma aren't happy about this, and using my unlimited resources to build and gild a weapon may put me in the danger zone.

yep good for you man. gift me forma bundle 20 times so we can feel eaven 🙂

[Drivrius]

8 hours ago, (XB1)Earth Nuggets said:

Just in case someone is wondering, gilding the Mote Amp counts toward the challenge. Hopefully you abandoned that sucker long before maxing it out, like me. 😆

Thanks for the tip!

 

I checked it out and turns out I had dropped leveling it at rank 20, saved me some valuable mats there.

 

I have 4 Kitguns and don't plan to ever make another, I have my gentleman Moa and that's all I'll likely ever make, I have 7 Zaws and got 6 of each plague BPs but I did not plan to make another Zaw until Melee 3.0 hits, because depending on the changes some if not all my Zaws might need redoing.

 

I would have hated to make another Zaw and then melee 3.0 hits and have to sell it for rep because it was now worthless...

 

[-HoB-AngelofRevenge]

23 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

But you have to consider that most veterans are  old and invalid after so many battles.

yep old veteran is hard to move after so many battles. RL dont give you time to be ingame few hour daily to farm various stuff and throw it to the window.