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[DE]Bear

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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There were never any alerts that weren't doable as long as you had the star chart done. I'm really not a fan of this choice. This should be a monthly goal. I'd like to be able to prepare and attempt challenges with friends and clan mates instead of being told "just give it up."

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5 minutes ago, Kuldor said:

Because they are here to do it when the challenge is presented?

That would be like saying you can't complete the toxic damage challenge because you weren't here when elemental mods where released.

But that doesn't make any sense, you can easily get a toxin mod or trade for it. I think people should just put the time they're putting into complaining and put it towards advancing in the game.

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9 hours ago, Starfreak911 said:

Not everyone has to do everything.  If all challenges were made so that a sub MR4 could run them then there would be no challenge.  As Ksaero also said, you don't need to complete 100% of the nightwave challenges to get all 30 tiers, and even then the later tiers are cosmetic so you can't argue it from a Mastery Points perspective.

There still isnt a challenge.

Grind X hours isnt a challenge.

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ty for explaining things, I do suport this. as I stated players are not equal and need rebalance for nightwave. example we had grineer and infested raids. why not have corpus and orokin which could give you excluive items for instance. anyway some  tasks need rebalance. 

start agin with new account, you will  see how much content in game there are. and do task like orb mother or tridolons early in game. and you will see what I am talking about.

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1 minute ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

But that doesn't make any sense, you can easily get a toxin mod or trade for it. I think people should just put the time they're putting into complaining and put it towards advancing in the game.

It's obviously a ridiculous comparison.

The thing is, if you haven't started with fortuna's grind (which is very possible even if you've played for over a month now) you CAN'T get to the profit taker this week, see the issue? it's the first challenge that's absolutely impossible to complete in said week regardless of the time you put towards it, because you are daily capped.

If you are something like MR10 you need over a week just for the final rank of SU, let alone the rest.

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Hey there.

This week there is one challenge, on PC at least, that I think is unappropriated. It's the 5k points value one that ask you to go make the Profit-Taker with a friend or a clanmate. Don't get me wrong, the challenge itself is totally okay to me, but having it granting 5k is not good for low master rank players.

Indeed, the lower your MR is, the longer you will take to upgrade your syndicat rank to the maximum, I know that Fortuna is there for enought time now but for anyone returning to the game now that is not already max rank solaris united will probably not be able to reach it time. The problem is not to not be able to reach max rank within 7 days, it's that it will make unavailable by any mean those 5k points, that's not a matter of difficilty as doing the third eidolon was, it's just mastery-rank locked if you were not already maxed. I think it would have be more fair to have this one granting 3k points, but then would not be logic cause it's still a boss fight that requieres some investment in the game.

I think an alternative could be to provide a "maximum weekly" point pool from challenges, done by multiple differents possibilities, like instead of just 3 5k challenge, having multiple of them and limitate the player to pick only 3 of them per week, same for the 3k value one. But then some player won't have the same challenges than others and that could lead to another issue too.

I like the idea of having elite challenge rewarding a lot, but I'm sure it's not a good idea to keep new players motivated to stay, it's already hard enought to start on this game when you're not with friends and not capable of buying lots of plats with real money noneed to add some motivation-killing things.

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3 hours ago, Lodeion said:

You are missing the point. I want 1-hour acts because of the positives and people who don't want 1-hour acts because of the negatives should be able to just not do them. See suggestions. Everyone should be happy.

Well, maybe if Nightwave hadn't been designed to so heavily favour Weeklies and Elite Weeklies then that might be the case. As it stands, the three Elite Weeklies gate ~35% of all challenge standing. As the system is right now, however, skipping those 1-hour Endurance Runs (which I did) shaves a not-insubstantial chunk of the reward. Nightwave as a whole seems purpose-designed to force (or at the very least heavily coerce) people into doing content they don't enjoy. Unless and until the system's core design philosophy shifts, you're going to see it rub up against people who just don't like to do niche activities.

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The fundamental issue for this one (and a couple of others) is that you can't be carried through it. Someone pre-"The War Within" wasn't going to be meaningfully contributing to an Tridolon Fight. The difference was, that they could be carried. Most of the challenges we've seen so far are doable at any level, but some of them require low-level players to be carried. The five Ayatans were annoying, but doable if you have access to Arbitrations, but if you just got access to them and don't have your mods leveled, you're probably going to need to be carried.

Personally, the only problem I had with the 60-minute survival was that I don't trust people's connections for that long. We finally got a good team together and as we got closer and closer to the 60-minute mark, every <<Network Connection>> issue was incredibly stressful.

There have been a lot of players complaining about how Tridolon isn't MR-locked or rep-locked, because it makes decent PUGs harder to find. I have lost count the number of times I've seen an MR 1-6 players doing it. They aren't attempting it, they're just there. I don't expect everyone to be able to do every bit of content immediately.

So now we have an issue. It feels like there's exclusive stuff and, therefore, FOMO rears its ugly head. It's a powerful tool, but generally creates resentment in at least some people. And giving people a checklist and keeping them from checking certain things off and they're going to get upset; so, I understand the psychology of what's being said about this being undoable by some players. It doesn't matter that you don't need it. It's annoying that they gave us a checklist that can't be completed.

That said, I also understand that this is a test not just of DE's tracking system, but of the psychology of each challenge. Which ones work and which ones generate public anger. DE has already stated that all of the gameplay-affecting rewards will return; so the only rewards at risk are, potentially, the cosmetics. And even those may find their way back if there's enough frustration.

Beyond the psychology of it, 5k rep isn't going to prevent you from getting to tier 30. Given DE's statements about only needing 2/3's of all activity to get to tier 30, 5k represents less than 5% of what you can skip over 10 weeks. And because I want to make my math teachers proud, here's the math:

300k / (2/3) = 450k (total available rep)
450k - 300k = 150k (available rep beyond tier 30)
5k / 150k = 3.33% (portion elite mission is of total "missable" rep)

Lots of things in the game are gated behind gear-checks, skill-checks and the like. I understand that feelings of FOMO and completionism are powerful. I'm, thankfully, at a spot that I haven't had to miss out on everything, but I have friends who aren't going to be able to -- not that they're particularly worried because they know there will be more opportunities. DE has tried to counter the FOMO issues by being generous with "missable" rep, but that doesn't combat completionist urges.

So to sum up: an argument that someone won't be able to make it to 30 because of this one challenge isn't reasonable. An argument that "giving us a weekly checklist of things to do and then making some of them undoable for some players" is annoying, has some merit, but probably needs to be argued on those grounds.

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il y a 17 minutes, simplygnome a dit :

There still isnt a challenge.

Grind X hours isnt a challenge.

Why can't people understand this?

Basically Nightwave:

-hides previous rewards that you could get in 5-10 minutes behind a tremendous grindwall.

-is suffocatingly timewalled.

-excludes people who did not grind Fortuna prior to the discovery of a challenge.

-based on milestones, either you were already going to do the tasks or you have already done them, at which point it feels like a chore.

 

How can people be fine with this? Where are the challenges? There is not a single "Challenge" in this, Nightwave is nothing more than a chore list for rewards that we used to get in a single, swiftly-done mission.

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15 minutes ago, Kuldor said:

The thing is, if you haven't started with fortuna's grind (which is very possible even if you've played for over a month now) you CAN'T get to the profit taker this week, see the issue?

Yes I do. It means that you need to do Fortuna content so you can complete the challenge next time it comes up.

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13 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

Yes I do. It means that you need to do Fortuna content so you can complete the challenge next time it comes up.

And then there will be a whole new batch of players that started playing a month earlier complaining about the exact same issue.

There's absolutely no reason to put this timed grind wall in front of what used to be 5-10 minutes missions.

 

In case people forgot, alerts were done mainly by new players, besides the casual nitain to build something.

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16 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

Why can't people understand this?

Basically Nightwave:

-hides previous rewards that you could get in 5-10 minutes behind a tremendous grindwall.

-is suffocatingly timewalled.

-excludes people who did not grind Fortuna prior to the discovery of a challenge.

-based on milestones, either you were already going to do the tasks or you have already done them, at which point it feels like a chore.

 

How can people be fine with this? Where are the challenges? There is not a single "Challenge" in this, Nightwave is nothing more than a chore list for rewards that we used to get in a single, swiftly-done mission.

I can't hear you over the fact that in these three weeks I've bought 1 aura that I missed, 5 nitain, 1 cosmetic skin, 1 alt helmet, and ether reaper. Way easier to do than before stop being irrational.

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il y a 4 minutes, Lodeion a dit :

I can't hear you over the fact that in these three weeks I've bought 1 aura that I missed, 5 nitain, 1 cosmetic skin, 1 alt helmet, and ether reaper. Way easier to do than before stop being irrational.

I could say "You could get 4 nitains per day, and although I am not sure, I would say you could get an aura/ a helmet at least once per day. Not to mention that Ether reaper can be bought from the market".

But frankly, when I give fairly objective points that are answered with "I can't hear you I did this stop being irrational", I can't really take you seriously.

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2 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

I could say "You could get 4 nitains per day, and although I am not sure, I would say you could get an aura/ a helmet at least once per day. Not to mention that Ether reaper can be bought from the market".

But frankly, when I give fairly objective points that are answered with "I can't hear you I did this stop being irrational", I can't really take you seriously.

Oh reaper is from the market? My bad.

You can't get 4 nitains per day if you play 1-2 hours a day. Same with auras and alts I had lost of hope of ever getting them all.

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1 minute ago, Ultimatesoup said:

I could say "You could get 4 nitains per day, and although I am not sure, I would say you could get an aura/ a helmet at least once per day. Not to mention that Ether reaper can be bought from the market".

But frankly, when I give fairly objective points that are answered with "I can't hear you I did this stop being irrational", I can't really take you seriously.

That's not even mentioned time invested.

1 nitain used to be 10 minutes tops, now we are looking at far more per nitain. Not even talking about cosmetics or auras.

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il y a 8 minutes, Kuldor a dit :

That's not even mentioned time invested.

1 nitain used to be 10 minutes tops, now we are looking at far more per nitain. Not even talking about cosmetics or auras.

I did say "hides previous rewards that you could get in 5-10 minutes behind a tremendous grindwall" though, I was talking about this. 🤷‍♂️

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My Feedback:

Love these challenges its something i can work on instead of just running floods/grind plats in fissures. Most the challenges, if not all of them i just knock off in few hours anyway. Also made me hunt for animals which i never did and thats what you wanted right? Make ppl do content which they never/rarely do. So good job on that. 😍

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No thanks, especially with that upcoming endless survival etc. Change which can #*!% it up and cause a failing migration on me because I went 1 second after the host to extraction. 

No thanks. 

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You can gild something very cheaply Not everyone took the time to make every zaw or amp this is far from veteran unifriendly you definitely have the resources to go out of your way to do this if you are mr26 and really shouldn’t be too much of a hassle. it’s the newer players that will suffer if they don’t have the resources they need to make the zaw or amp they want and end up making something they won’t use and waste standing. 

for the 3 forma yeah it’s a bit much but as a challenge getting forma from relics exists and you can knock this out easy if you know what to do but again newer players might need to use forma on something they don’t need or waste it. And for vets that have most of everything this is a very boring waste of time than gilding unless there a weapon or frame you haven’t forma’d for or have gotten and wouldn’t mind dumping forma to experiment.

best way newer players can do this is use the forma on a prime or a frame that doesen’t have one that they own but they definitely wouldn’t know that.

these missions involve using resources so it isn’t going to be aimed for the high end players or the fresh new player it’s most likely aimed for people who definitely aren’t new but haven’t completed everything there is yet but are close enough to the end

There should be mission that exist to challenge players with those resources to do something with it like riven challenges but tuned to exploring how to make challenges that do not rely on measuring difficulty based off on resources but your ability to use those resources and that should be what challenges will be made for the high end players.

These missions are definitely not. The worse thing about the gilding challenge is literally just buying space which again I really and I mean really doubt that any vet that mastered every weapon is complaining about getting space for one. 

These 2 weekly missions look like they are for the mr14-20 players who play actively and should have the resources to do these kind of challenges since they haven’t done everything.

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Liked: 

*Warframe slots earnable in game 

*Weapon slots earnable in game

On the fence:

*Challenges

*Time frames for the challenges

Ignored:

*Elite challenges 

So, I like you all trying new things. It's great!  At the same time, it feels like the difficulty bar on how to play the game has gone up for new players a bit too far. It feels like we traded buying a Warframe slot for buying niatin extract and the Vauban Warframe. There is not enough wolf cred early enough in the reward table to be able to buy what one needs for crafting.  I am chipping away slowly and I need that stuff more than veterans do. I doubt sincerely I will be able to buy all the basic Warframe and crafting things I need before the offerings change. Don't give me a glyph instead of wolf cred please. I need Aura mods way more to play the game. Glyph at rank 3, wolf cred at rank 2 or 1.

Second of all, do you all mean to teach new players to prioritize Nightwave over playing the rest of the game? Nora Night is the elementary school teacher who tells kids good job for hanging their coats up in their cubby instead on on the floor. She is potentially behavior modifying new players to focus on Nightwave and not star chart. And why? The star chart isn't flashy. There are no guides in the gameplay to tell you what is the priority. Just Nora. Perhaps the Lotus can use Nora as a model and be a new player guide more?

If Nightwave is directed to bored veterans then great! Make other stuff more new player focused like perhaps early nightmare missions to drop more needed new player hard to get items (extract, Aura mods, so on). Just an idea you know your game better than I do. However I can tell you I (MR7) haven't made it to rank one on PS4 and I may not make it past rank 2 before the season ends. Before Nightwave I could get an Aura mod, a piece of Vauban, perhaps a couple of niatin. Twitter helped me prioritize. And I would have drug my MR 1, MR2, and MR 6 friends and family  to do those alerts.

Full disclosure I am MR14 on PC and know what I am missing on PS4 lol. 

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I'm with OP here.

I can farm the Exploiter Orb with no trouble, even solo if I wished. Yet I am time gated with Solaris United because of the daily cap. I didn't bother working on their standing because well... kinda was busy with nightwave for the past few weeks instead! Funny that. I get it, that there are somethings players won't be able to do like sorties since they haven't progressed far enough. However for some of us this stings cause we busy with other content in warframe like me with Eidolons, frames, weapons, sorties, etc etc and didn't really care to farm up the standing for the profit taker since I felt I can do that once I finished everything else.

Nightwave dropped, knocked my to-do list out of whack (yes I have one for Warframe to keep me organized). Started doing Nightwave and well here we are to this mess. I'm capable enough to solo Exploiter Orb, sorties, did the bloody 60 min kuva survival with 1 friend, and so on. I have endgame stuff but not access to this one thing. It sucks!

It is one thing if I willingly choose to not do this one challenge it is another that the decision is taken away from me. Maybe next week I don't want to do that one. Or for the next few weeks I am too busy and will skip out on a couple 5k challenges, but this week. I got time and want to do it but just can't. That's not right.

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2 minutes ago, llamabrown said:

So, I like you all trying new things. It's great!  At the same time, it feels like the difficulty bar on how to play the game has gone up for new players a bit too far. It feels like we traded buying a Warframe slot for buying niatin extract and the Vauban Warframe. There is not enough wolf cred early enough in the reward table to be able to buy what one needs for crafting.  I am chipping away slowly and I need that stuff more than veterans do. I doubt sincerely I will be able to buy all the basic Warframe and crafting things I need before the offerings change. Don't give me a glyph instead of wolf cred please. I need Aura mods way more to play the game. Glyph at rank 3, wolf cred at rank 2 or 1.

Second of all, do you all mean to teach new players to prioritize Nightwave over playing the rest of the game? Nora Night is the elementary school teacher who tells kids good job for hanging their coats up in their cubby instead on on the floor. She is potentially behavior modifying new players to focus on Nightwave and not star chart. And why? The star chart isn't flashy. There are no guides in the gameplay to tell you what is the priority. Just Nora. Perhaps the Lotus can use Nora as a model and be a new player guide more?

If Nightwave is directed to bored veterans then great! Make other stuff more new player focused like perhaps early nightmare missions to drop more needed new player hard to get items (extract, Aura mods, so on). Just an idea you know your game better than I do. However I can tell you I (MR7) haven't made it to rank one on PS4 and I may not make it past rank 2 before the season ends. Before Nightwave I could get an Aura mod, a piece of Vauban, perhaps a couple of niatin. Twitter helped me prioritize. And I would have drug my MR 1, MR2, and MR 6 friends and family  to do those alerts.

Full disclosure I am MR14 on PC and know what I am missing on PS4 lol. 

6

I think this weeks challenges are more star chart focused with the complete 3 of a bunch of mission types. I agree about the lack of wolf creds I think they either need to boost them to 75, the highest price of an item available for the week. Or put more of them in the low end. maybe save the glyphs etc for the prestige level.

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Hi,

Here is my problem with Nightwave.

On one side, I want to get all the items, (especially the last ones: Umbra Forma).
But, the time I need to finish all mission is very long. And it takes nearly all my time.

Now, it’s the game that tell me what I must do, instead of me choosing what I want to do.

And what it proposes is not really the most fun (at least for me) fishing, mining…, doing same mission 3 or 4 times, etc.…


It creates a stress (because I don’t want to lose something), that make me want to stop completely the game instead of continuing.
I get the point that the game must find a way to make us come back as much as possible. But her, it’s too much for me.

And now it’s even worst with other events happening at the same time.

PS: beside that, I like the kind of story/background.
PS2: sorry for my bad English.

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A bit more thought into my previous suggestion which was to remove the time limits from weekly acts and turn the entire Nightwave thing into "episodes."

First the time limits: Let's just remove them. We can keep the time limits on the dailies if you wish, but the weekly ones are where the big standing cash is at. These shouldn't expire at all. Instead they persist until this season of Nightwave is over. With each passing week, a new set of challenges is unlocked for Nightwave. This way players who can't get through the Nightwave content this week, can still catch up later and complete the challenges. They won't feel like they are missing anything.

Episodes: Once this Nightwave season is over. I'm figuring a new one will start soon after. What could be done is that this season's get bundled up into an episode of Nightwave that new players can active and complete at their leisure. What they may missout on would be dailies and following the story as it changes week from week but they can at least relive the previous season this way.

The episodes I think is a good thing to try now given in the past players had missed events and the content that came with them and people were asking for these things to return so that newer players can check out. I also think it is sad that DE has made 1 time content that no one can relieve. If it was a once a year thing, sure not a big deal since it'll come around the following year but it isn't and hasn't been like that.

 

Anyway, that's my suggestion. 🙂

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6 hours ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

Let players choose what acts they like to play and let them play them multiple times while getting the same amount of XP for that specific act as they rank up.

 

That is the worst idea I have heard in my entire life do you know what game you’re playing?

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