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[DE]Bear

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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I read the perfect description of nightwave on reddit today:

FOMO chores. 

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13 hours ago, llamabrown said:

But you clearly have Mesa. You are not just unlocking Mercury. The number of mods an MR 1 or 2 player I could almost count on both hands. Certainly if we just look at individual weapon category it would be less than 10 a piece. And let's not talk about leveled mods. I teach my new players to prioritize the damage and survival mods first. Elements come if they have room or resources. And we are talking about new players. They are playing with a Mag, an Excal and a Rhino. 

My point here is this. Do we ask people to prioritize just grinding the challenge or playing the game? Where do Nightwave challenges fall in priority of all the different factions already available in the game? Is it more important than running spy vaults with few kills to get the vault rewards? Will it hurt them later to ignore Nightwave? I haven't seen even the guides online answering these questions. At the end of my Sunday playtime I am at 140/150 bullet jumps (I suck with a controller) my friends were at between 25- 50/150 (still learning mechanics), and the complete one mission daily challenge done. My new player friends do not have a single toxin mod between them, one hasn't dropped yet. They will not even get to rank one this week. Is that what DE intended? If it is, then fair enough. But I would love more clarity on where noobs are supposed to fit in this. Syndicate rank can be passively gained with a sigil worn while killing things, but there is a rank restriction to starting that. Does the same need to happen with Nightwave?

Play the game, Like for me, doing any number of relic runs, or Sorties (which I understand your MR2 friends can't do) will knock off most of the complete 3 mission challenges, as will working on the individual planets. MR1 and 2's probably shouldn't worry about Nightwave there is so much more to do in the game for them. Assassinations to clear planets, earn mods, and blueprints.

If you want to focus on the daily challenges when they are kills, Just do some low-level earth Defense or Survival and the kills will come quickly.

If you guys are not in a clan, find a good one and join, I'm sure there will be helpful players willing to give you guys some Elemental 90 mods, and other common and uncommon mods.

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Guys wouldn't be the easiest solution to just remove the Time Gate for the single seasons to end?

I have thought alot about the current Nightwave System and it's Pro and Con's and I think the Solution for atleast "most" of the Issues that the individual players have is pretty simple.

We have mainly two parts of Player

1. People who like nightwave because it gives them something to do -> named the Hardcores even when they maybe aren't that hardcore but just for better understanding

2. People who say that Nightwave made Warframe into a daily routine / task / chore instead of a fun game to play -> called the casuals also jsut for better understanding.

So I completely understand the Hardcores even when I am more on the casual side but acknowledge the fact that the Nightwave system provides the players with some nice rewards and atleast "something to do" and I think that is worth alot and I am happy for all the hardcores finding the time and willing to put that many hours into a single game.

Then we got the casual who moan about that the Grind for Nightwave is just to much to combine it with their actual social life and that Warframe feels like a chore now and I have to say that I totally agree with this opinion. I am stand alone single dad with maybe 1-3 evenings of free play time a week. Some weeks more. Some weeks even less. So just to make it short. No i do not have the time to complete the nightwave even when it's only at 60% and you save all the "get gud" or "get better" troll comments for yourself. I want to play other games as well and I don't want to invest all my free time into gaming or even in a single game.

So that means I understand and appreciate the new Nightwave system with it's tasks and it's rewards and I don't want to argue about that but just let's discuss about what is causing the "pressure" and feeling to be "forced to play" for all the casuals here on the forum (including me).

The point is that Nightwave Season just runs for a specific time and after that all your effort get's lost. So that means that you have to invest a specific amount of time in a fixed time frame to complete Nightwave and get all the rewards. The question is why it has to be like that?

My simple solution is to just remove the Time Gate for the single nightwave seasons. With this simple small change the hardcore player won't have to miss anything about their beloved grind system and they can grind as much and as fast as they want to get to lvl 30 and even more. So no changes for hardcores -> good..right?

And for the casuals it means that they don't feel the pressure to complete the 60% over a specific time and they can grind the Nightwave system when they want and when they can. So it's not a shame when you miss out a few weeks in between. When you login you can always continue to grind your own progess on nightwave.

 

DE could still start the Season 2 after the few weeks and every player get's the chance to just choose as an option to continue in season one or move further to season two.

So you can decide if you want to change to the next season or now. And no it's not a big effort for DE to let several nightwave seasons run at the same time.

PokemonGo and several other Games running their gameplay progress system or field research system run individual for every player. So that's not an argument here in my opionion.

In my head atleast that is the most perfect solution for the two big player groups and I am happy to hear your thoughts about my idea but so far I couldn't find any downside for one of the two player bases and this makes it a perfect solution. Also this should be just a small change for DE with not a lot of development power needed.

Would love to hear DE's statement for that Idead and when you agree with me please spread the message to make DE see this simple solution.

Also give us an option to mute Nora. Damn that grill is annoying as hell after a while.

 

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15 minutes ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

DE could still start the Season 2 after the few weeks and every player get's the chance to just choose as an option to continue in season one or move further to season two.

So you can decide if you want to change to the next season or now. And no it's not a big effort for DE to let several nightwave seasons run at the same time.

PokemonGo and several other Games running their gameplay progress system or field research system run individual for every player. So that's not an argument here in my opionion.

In my head atleast that is the most perfect solution for the two big player groups and I am happy to hear your thoughts about my idea but so far I couldn't find any downside for one of the two player bases and this makes it a perfect solution. Also this should be just a small change for DE with not a lot of development power needed.

Would love to hear DE's statement for that Idead and when you agree with me please spread the message to make DE see this simple solution.

Also give us an option to mute Nora. Damn that grill is annoying as hell after a while.

 

Nah, you only need to do 60% of the Challenges, Not to mention the bonuses from Fugitives. If you're getting an average of 3 ranks a week, you're going to get everything. Given some people are managing to get 5 or more ranks due to the fugitives it's not as hard as people make it out to be. I haven't done every challenge and I'll be 14 by the end of this week. That's only 3 weeks in. with 7 weeks to go.

No need to extend it beyond the time frame given. If people really wanted the stuff, they'd just spend more time playing. 

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21 minutes ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

Guys wouldn't be the easiest solution to just remove the Time Gate for the single seasons to end?

I definitely agree. Maybe they could block the access to next season until the player has completed the previous one.

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are you serious or are you trolling? I highly explained that I do not have the time to finish that 60% and the only argument you are bringing is this?

Dude seriously please just add helpful comments. Why not extend the time frame given for players that need it? Any downside for you with that? No? Then please just hold your comment for yourself mate. I don't want to attack somebody here but comments like that are the problem why people fight so much about nightwave currently. There is no actual feedback in your comment. Just the typical "just play more" nonsense. So please just be quiet when you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation.

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb (PS4)nating51:

I definitely agree. Maybe they could block the access to next season until the player has completed the previous one.

not even sure about that. Just for example when a player is absolutely not intrested in the rewards that one specific season provides he could just move to the next season when it started without finishing the current one and grinding for stuff he doesn't have interest in. No need for a "block" till you finished one season in my opinion or? 

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1 minute ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

are you serious or are you trolling? I highly explained that I do not have the time to finish that 60% and the only argument you are bringing is this?

Dude seriously please just add helpful comments. Why not extend the time frame given for players that need it? Any downside for you with that? No? Then please just hold your comment for yourself mate. I don't want to attack somebody here but comments like that are the problem why people fight so much about nightwave currently. There is no actual feedback in your comment. Just the typical "just play more" nonsense. So please just be quiet when you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation.

The time frame is fine. Why not extend the time frame and have them overlap? Because that means more work for DE. Bigger updates for Warframe to cover the extra content. And what happens in 2 years when there are 12 different Nightwatch events running because people who don't have the time want all the stuff? How many bugs and glitches will be created by such a convuluted mess?

One of the things I believe people are doing is looking at each week, seeing they missed challenges and thinking "It's not fair I'm not going to make it," Rather than looking at how many weeks are left and how far they have progressed so far. Remember, the Nightwave seasons are designed so that those who do everything can prestige when they hit 30. 

But basically, the thing is, if you don't have time to do 60% then you don't deserve to get the level 30 rewards.

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12 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

But basically, the thing is, if you don't have time to do 60% then you don't deserve to get the level 30 rewards.

Seriously? On which basis? I have 2k hours on WF, stopped for months sometimes, 'cause of real life issues (JOB?) or simply other stuff to do, and 'till now I got all i need on WF, nice gaming experience and all. Now, I can imagine if I'll miss a month on this crap of a time gated system, I probably won't reach the 60% of the acts accomplished...and you are stating that I don't *deserve* to get level 30 rewards 'cause I have a life? C'mon man, that's a pretty toxic attitude to this game to me...

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Tatakai no Kami:

Because that means more work for DE. Bigger updates for Warframe to cover the extra content. 

- please explain to me how the update package will be bigger just because there are different rewards and cosmetics in the tier system. Sorry but even when I understand your intention here I highly doubt that this will blow up any update package system with a noticable data amount. As mentioned other game developers have sucessfully managed to run individual tier systems without blowing up the update size.

And what happens in 2 years when there are 12 different Nightwatch events running because people who don't have the time want all the stuff? How many bugs and glitches will be created by such a convuluted mess?

- also doubt that as the rewards and challenges do not involve new things to do. It's unlikely that you will encounter more bugs in a task like "kill 1500 enemies" or because another player has another challenge active. That's just a counter for a statistic that the Game has anyway about your progress. I could be wrong sure but I highly doubt that this will increase the amount of bugs in the game. But I would love to see a statement from an actual Warframe DEV about this. When they agree with you I would count this as an argument. But for the moment this is just an assumption. So not a counter argument for my idea.

But basically, the thing is, if you don't have time to do 60% then you don't deserve to get the level 30 rewards.

- I am not sure if DE really wants to loose on alot of the casual player because DE thinks they don't deserve the rewards. They are a company and should therefore be interested in the solution that is best for the whole palyer base. Where is the problem with a more fair and balanced solution for everyone. As said I don't want to take anything from the Hardcore Players with my idea. So I think that everyone should have the possibility to get the rewards.

 

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Just now, (PS4)nating51 said:

Seriously? On what basis? I have 2k hours on WF, stopped for months sometimes, cause of real life issues (JOB?) or simply other stuff to do and 'till now I get all i need on WF, nice gaming experience and all. Now, I can imagine if I'll miss a month on this crap of a time gated system, I probably won't reach the 60% of the acts accomplished...and you are stating that I don't *deserve* to get level 30 rewards 'cause I have a life? C'mon man, that's a pretty toxic attitude to this game to me...

Simple. On the basis of if you're not doing the challenges, why should you get the rewards that the people who are doing the challenges are earning? The rewards are earned, Even if the challenges are sometimes not actually challenges like the Modular item and Forma ones this week.

I work 12-hour shifts, Work is short staffed right now so I'm working extra shifts, But I am still managing to easily do the majority of the challenges in an hour to an hour and a half each day.

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Tatakai no Kami:

Simple. On the basis of if you're not doing the challenges, why should you get the rewards that the people who are doing the challenges are earning? The rewards are earned, Even if the challenges are sometimes not actually challenges like the Modular item and Forma ones this week.

I work 12-hour shifts, Work is short staffed right now so I'm working extra shifts, But I am still managing to easily do the majority of the challenges in an hour to an hour and a half each day.

that's just the old "I can do it so you can do it as well" argument and that is just a false assumption.

I also do not understand why you arguing about an idea to improve the game for casuals that would not even effect you in anyway. But as you are not personally affected by the situiation please just think about the following scenario:

Just think that maybe you would have a car accident and you broke your leg and therefor need to be in a hospital for 6 weeks (I know that this is a long time for a broken leg but the point is clear I think). In the hospital you are not able to game the whole time.

After you come back home you now have two options:

1. all your progess is lost and you didn't get the change for the reward you already put alot of work in before your accident

2. you can continue your own grind at the point where you have left and can get the stuff that you wanted.

What would you prefer? And also then just think that anybody would just say to you. Mmmh sorry man..you broke your leg (or your mother is ill) so you didn't invested the time and so you don't "deserver" the rewards. Shounds S#&$ty doesn't it?

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

I work 12-hour shifts, Work is short staffed right now so I'm working extra shifts, But I am still managing to easily do the majority of the challenges in an hour to an hour and a half each day.

Ok, you think that how you manage your time is like all other people HAVE to do...this is pretty insane.

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5 minutes ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

Because that means more work for DE. Bigger updates for Warframe to cover the extra content. 

- please explain to me how the update package will be bigger just because there are different rewards and cosmetics in the tier system. Sorry but even when I understand your intention here I highly doubt that this will blow up any update package system with a noticable data amount. As mentioned other game developers have sucessfully managed to run individual tier systems without blowing up the update size.

You don't understand how coding works do you. First, they'll need different coding for each event's reward tables and Challenges, and stores, then they'll need different coding for whatever we get instead of fugitives as random bonuses in missions. They'll then need coding to keep these from getting mixed up or overlapping. Then there are each season's intros and dialogue. By the time they get to season 12 with all the other seasons all stacked on top of each other, it will be a convoluted mess.

But as you're a dad and you want to play other games as well, then the fact you won't get to earn all the rewards is the sacrifice you have chosen to make. Do you see me over on the World of Tank Forums, or the Rainbow 6 Siege forums complaining that I don't have time to play their games every week so they should just give me all of the season pass stuff?

Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice comes out this week. I'm going to be playing the hell out of that, It might mean I fall behind on Nightwave. If I do, that's on me because I want to play SSDT. And you know what? I'm not going to complain about how DE is unfair because I wanted to play SSDT and have all of the Umbral potatoes too. 

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)nating51 said:

Ok, you think that how you manage your time is like all other people HAVE to do...this is pretty insane.

<insert Dr Phil having a Seizure.gif>

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Just now, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

<insert Dr Phil having a Seizure.gif>

 

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

You don't understand how coding works do you

...said the guy who don't even know how to insert a gif.

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12 minutes ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

that's just the old "I can do it so you can do it as well" argument and that is just a false assumption.

Tell me, when we had the old alert system were you on here complaining they should extend the alert timers to weeks so you could get all of the alerts done? And earn all of the nanospores?

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1 minute ago, (PS4)nating51 said:

 

...said the guy who don't even know how to insert a gif.

I know how to insert one. But it was quicker to type that reply. You know time management.

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Tatakai no Kami:

Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice comes out this week. I'm going to be playing the hell out of that, It might mean I fall behind on Nightwave. If I do, that's on me because I want to play SSDT. And you know what? I'm not going to complain about how DE is unfair because I wanted to play SSDT and have all of the Umbral potatoes too. 

fair point sersiouly but I want to state that I don't complain I just want to give feedback on how to improve that system for all players. That's all. And that is where a feedback thread is here for. Right? Where is your feedback and ideas how to improve the system? You good with it? That's great and I am happy for you. But other people are not and therefore we have this thread. Just because you are personally not affected doesn't mean other people have not a valid argument. As you can see there are alot of players feeling this way and that's why we have this current "Split" about nightwave in the player base. And I just don't want this.

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Tatakai no Kami:

Tell me, when we had the old alert system were you on here complaining they should extend the alert timers to weeks so you could get all of the alerts done? And earn all of the nanospores?

I never said I want the old alert system back. I said I like the new nightwave system in it's basic idea. And nobody complained about the old alert system being unfair because it came every few days with the same old rewards. When you missed a chance you knew you will have a new change in some time. It's completely different with Nightwave and you know that.

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Things seems to have gotten a bit off topic since I last looked around here, going back and forth about how things work internally, so in an attempt to return to it...

Yes, if you get 3 ranks per week you're good to reach the end, but that's not the point really, the point is acts which are counter productive to their aim (as I see it). The gild and forma challenges, who do they reward? They reward the middle tier player who hasn't done it all yet but has the resources to throw on the table anyway, while both newbies as well as seasoned players have issues. Yes I could take a garbage weapon and stick forma on that, or build an extra kitgun to level and then toss, that's not the point, I can do it easily, I have the resources, but why must I? One of the things I find enjoyable is figuring out the most efficient way to forma my gear, so being forced to use arbitrary forma just bothers me, also not to even mention the need to potentially buy extra slots to have space for the kitgun.

The problem I have with these acts is not that they're difficult (or easy for that matter), or expensive or whatever, it's that they reward inaction. If I had not been excited about DE's content and already made, leveled and formaed every single zaw variation, every single kitgun and every single moa then I'd be able to toss the act to the wind easily. My issue is that it creates a punishing atmosphere for actually playing the content DE provides.

Now end of the day I went out and caught Squeaky a few times, got to rank 4 with the Quills (finally, should have done that months ago) and crafted a new amp with the tier 4 prism, so that'll be my gilding fodder and tomorrow morning my Hildryn will be done and will serve as my forma fodder, so I guess I am just lucky I hadn't gone and farmed the wisps for all the amps I wanted quite yet because of bounty burnout? It's fine, we can do it, but the issue is that the result seems counter productive to the goal.

Also just for a matter of logic, how come cracking 10 relics is considered elite, when using 3 forma, which requires first cracking, then getting the right drop, then gathering the resources, then spending 72 hours crafting is not...? That makes zero sense except for an internal concept of "this might actually not be the best challenge so we don't want to punish too much by making people skip 5k, but only 3k". I wouldn't have as big of an issue with the challenge if it was to apply a single forma, but not three, because new content usually arrive regularly, I still however do not like the challenge for the previously stated reasons, however the gilding challenge is just a big no on my part because it relies on people not playing the game content.

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7 minutes ago, Ulvra said:

Yes, if you get 3 ranks per week you're good to reach the end, but that's not the point really, the point is acts which are counter productive to their aim (as I see it). The gild and forma challenges, who do they reward? They reward the middle tier player who hasn't done it all yet but has the resources to throw on the table anyway, while both newbies as well as seasoned players have issues. Yes I could take a garbage weapon and stick forma on that, or build an extra kitgun to level and then toss, that's not the point, I can do it easily, I have the resources, but why must I? One of the things I find enjoyable is figuring out the most efficient way to forma my gear, so being forced to use arbitrary forma just bothers me, also not to even mention the need to potentially buy extra slots to have space for the kitgun.

 

I agree with this. as I said in another post I'm lucky in that I was already about to build another rattleguts because I wasn't happy with my original version. And Also I am lucky as I still have forma I need to put on weapons and frames. But many aren't in the same position when it comes to these.

 
 
 
 
 
4
8 minutes ago, Ulvra said:

Also just for a matter of logic, how come cracking 10 relics is considered elite, when using 3 forma, which requires first cracking, then getting the right drop, then gathering the resources, then spending 72 hours crafting is not...? That makes zero sense except for an internal concept of "this might actually not be the best challenge so we don't want to punish too much by making people skip 5k, but only 3k". I wouldn't have as big of an issue with the challenge if it was to apply a single forma, but not three, because new content usually arrive regularly, I still however do not like the challenge for the previously stated reasons, however the gilding challenge is just a big no on my part because it relies on people not playing the game content.

I felt the same about the complete 5 Sorties vs the complete 1 with a Friend/Clanmate. That 5 sorties one could have been a 1 off 10k challenge. Or should have been 3 sorties at most.

But I agree the build something or gild something or insert Forma/Catalyst/Reactor type items should not be challenges. In this regard they could be side challenges outside the daily/weekly challenges. Get 1000 or something per season the first time you do one of these things. This way they are not huge bonuses that affect how people level and forma weapons, but it's a nice little bit extra. 

I have a horrible feeling there will be an unlock or acquire 1 or 3 rivens challenge soon.

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"....with friends or clanmates" requirement does not work.

 

We still do it with complete strangers, but are forced to add each other to friendlist..... And its quite easy to do.  There is no point in that "requirement".

That kinda sucks.

 

Replace it with something like "....with 4 different dragon keys equipped ".     This one would be much more engaging than just adding some random dude to friendlist.

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