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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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5 minutes ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

dude is this something like your job or so? This thread is for players with ideas and concerns how to improve nightwave but the only thing that you are doing here is arguing against the idea of other people and trying to prove them wrong because your opinion about Nightwave is superior. Don't get me wrong but I am just confused why you are here arguing against everybody else but do not provide any helpful content at all. Doesn't make sense for me and you are no way helpful but disrepecting other people ideas.

Do you just have fun criticizing other people idea or do you just want to make sure that Nightwave will be as you think it should be? Just curious about your intention here.

No, I've given ideas here and supported other ideas. You're so hung up on me shooting down your nonsense you probably read those posts and didn't see it was me.
 

This guy wanted Tennogen for free. I pointed out that DE pays part of the profits from Tennogen sales to the creators. How is that arguing? How is that superior?

But if you can understand what he is saying in regards to wanting elite challenges and normal challenges that are different but the same as what we already have please translate his post for me.

 

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3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So, the issue is that newbs won't be able to complete all of the ranks, and earn rewards from the top tiers, that they would not be able to use, until after they get to the end of the Star Chart? 

That's like saying that babies who haven't started kindergarten, aren't allowed to enroll in a university course. It's obvious that it's not a problem for the baby. Trying to rebalance the system, to allow them to earn university credits just for being able to do what babies do, is a bad idea and serves nobody. 

depend how you look at it. if you are mr 18 or 20 who just go back you will have something to use from rewards in nw. dont see why make it more difficault for them just becaouse someone think 'we can' and 'it should'. and why look down upon those who just start game or recently start game? that is toxic to begun with....

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33 minutes ago, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

depend how you look at it. if you are mr 18 or 20 who just go back you will have something to use from rewards in nw. dont see why make it more difficault for them just becaouse someone think 'we can' and 'it should'. and why look down upon those who just start game or recently start game? that is toxic to begun with....

Accepting that a new player just won't be able to do all of the things that a high ranked veteran can do isn't looking down on them. At first they are weaker, and that's why the starter planet has weak enemies, so that they can complete the missions, learn how to play and survive. Given time, and effort, they can get better and so can start to face enemies who are significantly stronger. 

That's literally how the world works. We all start weak and grow up strong. If you disagree and think that is toxic because everyone should be able to do everything, just go ahead and taxi a squad of newbs to Sedna or Eris and let them do their thing while you stand back. They're all going to be wiped out. That's not looking down on them, it's accepting that there are limits to what they're capable of. 

Now, should we hide the upper tier rewards from them and pretend that there are only a few based on their MR? Maybe it will help a few snowflakes not fall apart. But there are also the players who would look at their progress to NW Rank 30 and think to themselves "hey I got pretty far, this is great, but next time I want to be good enough to beat it, and get everything!" You'd be taking that away from them just so you can hand out rewards to everyone for participating. That's not good. 

 

There is no problem with that part of the current system. If you are still concerned, encourage others to offer to help carry the newbs and weaker players, when possible instead. That way those of us who can do it, will be showing those who can't how that part of the game works and maybe they'll learn to do it themselves. 

 

3 hours ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

dude is this something like your job or so? This thread is for players with ideas and concerns how to improve nightwave but the only thing that you are doing here is arguing against the idea of other people and trying to prove them wrong because your opinion about Nightwave is superior. Don't get me wrong but I am just confused why you are here arguing against everybody else but do not provide any helpful content at all. Doesn't make sense for me and you are no way helpful but disrepecting other people ideas.

Did you really just try to silence another person because they don't agree with your position? 

Yes this is a place for us to try and improve on the system. But a lot of the suggestions are just plain bad. Sometimes they're bad in a non-obvious way to some people. If you look at some of the changes that DE has made recently, they did exactly what people were begging for over the years. Now that we have it, there are people who realise that it's a worse system than what we originally had and some people are asking for it to go back to the old system. 

That’s bad for everyone. That's why dissent needs to be allowed and encouraged. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

You do understand Tennogen requires DE paying the creators right? They make money from the sales of what they create. DE giving away Tennogen skins for free would negate the whole point of Tennogen. If you want a Tennogen skin buy it, and support the creators of them.

The rest of what you say is hard to grasp because it basically sounds like you want exactly what we have but don't understand that what we have is what you want.

do you undestand that not all get tennogen release? do you undersatnd if you wanna make money get real job. i dont see problem to make extra deluxe skin or at least 1 tennogen creator willing to 'give' something to the game and community and make some sort of legacy in game, except some account who may not be active at all in future. why so short sited?

what i say is something along lines of: do 40 min surv, use 1 forma, do 5 bounty  for instance instead of  do 1h surv, use 3 forma , kill profit taker(consider that most of ppl did not eaven do arch things untill now) etc. and why not in adition to current task get some more ellite (open for suggestions what should that be) that would be more challenging and get some extra exclusive rewards in prestige so veterans, hard core gamers, those willing to push for actually have something to push for. instead of simply push for get set of energize, ton of umbra for frames, ton of kuva for rolling rivens. so make it bit more balanced and get some extra ellite so all players in communty get rewared.

with current state some are rewarded and some are punished, depend how you look at it. take one thing into consideration, once you hit mr30 in nw you enter prestige and rest to 0, so with each rank you will get wolf credits which is ok, but why not have chance to get something more exlusive which can just be obtained within nw? DE can later add more stuff to it, in current state you just get res. so start with basic thing, task for nw which i dont find balanced for players in general.

it is ok for ppl not to agree with this. in end it will be just wolf cred to buy suff and some of them are avaiable in market and sorties. which will bring you later to question sorties reward like forma, patatoes and kuva when you have it in wolf offerings for wolf credit and it is already crafted, if i am correct, and in more quantity. 

Edited by -HoB-AngelofRevenge

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21 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Nobody, but you are free to keep trying if you want. Just a hint, you may want to at least pretend to be able to refute. It'll make it easier for people to take you seriously. 

Uh... I really hope that I'm not spoiling anything for you, but Nora changed what she said about the Wolf. Before she was just telling us who he is, now she's told us that he seems to be tracking someone, around a particular planet. 

Is that not a story progressing? I mean it seems to be. Maybe not the "20 minutes spent rushing through a cinematic quest that took months to create", but definitely seems to be heading somewhere. And we have quite a few more weeks to go. Might want see what's happening before you decide that it doesn't have a story. 

Other than that, I'm really not sure what you meant in the first sentence. 

Seeing what quest / cinematic story might come out of Nightwave is worthwhile. On the other topic huburis can be found in time gating and fine crafted quests that we COULD be rush in 20 minutes, while we find any internet humor and story telling that it expands on. While Nightwave is incubating it would be good to see other content on the side. For example, the return of the NightWatch grineer troops and more events like Pacifism Defect where players can both refine their strategy in the game mode and get some story out of it. In Pacifism Defecr there was possitive and negative feedback on it; but getting a Ignis Wraith sooner by effort or putting points on the board and waiting for the event to end for the BP to come to our Dojos.

While Barried Debts with the Deck 12 boss fight is coming to console soon we have 6+ weeks of a steady build up on Nightwave and time til TennoCon to see what else pops up.

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50 wolf creds per weapon blueprint is way too expensive. They're supposed to be for low MR players, but resources are tight when there's also auras that need to be bought as well... should they even appear in the weekly rotation. I had better luck getting corrosive projection from the old alert system ironically.

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This week's Nightwave tasks are much better than last week's.  The removal of the 5-sortie and 8-bounty tasks is great.  The 3-forma task is the only questionable one this week, since it requires having a weapon/frame you want to forma in the first place.

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22 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Not in the least. If it were you could quote that. But you feel free to keep trying.... Whatever it is you are trying. 

And seriously, if you figure that not allowing you to pay2win, this time, will actually kill the game, you have issues. 🙄

Literally, it's a free to play game. You're saying people shouldn't have the option to spend money and get value for it.

Not that pay2notwait is anything close to pay2win. Who are you trying to fool, yourself?

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1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Literally, it's a free to play game. You're saying people shouldn't have the option to spend money and get value for it.

Not that pay2notwait is anything close to pay2win. Who are you trying to fool, yourself?

Do you think that if you keep telling yourself that, that it'll become true? 

What you're asking for isn't pay to not wait, it's pay so you don't have to play the game at all, pay to get the reward most others will play at least 6 weeks for, right away. 

If folks like you were in charge in DE they would probably have left in the kubrow fur pattern randomiser in place, because "hey, let the whales spend their money or you will kill the f2p game". 

DE felt then that they could do without that part of it. They've also happily banned people who abuse macros that play the game for you. The auction house system that removes the need for players to actually use the system, has been shot down how many times now? The stand on objective pressing 4 gameplay style is frowned upon and they constantly take steps to prevent that. 

But in the face of all of those, you still figure that you should have been allowed to bypass the game and just claim the rewards by waving your magic credit card? 

Great news. Looks like DE currently disagrees with you. So you can play for the rewards, like the rest of us plebes, or not. Your choice. 

 

Maybe next round they'll include unlimited 10k standing rewards for "buy another Tennogen Bundle" so you can have an easier time getting the reward you want? 

 

Good luck with that, Tenno. 

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Do you think that if you keep telling yourself that, that it'll become true? 

What you're asking for isn't pay to not wait, it's pay so you don't have to play the game at all, pay to get the reward most others will play at least 6 weeks for, right away. 

If folks like you were in charge in DE they would probably have left in the kubrow fur pattern randomiser in place, because "hey, let the whales spend their money or you will kill the f2p game". 

DE felt then that they could do without that part of it. They've also happily banned people who abuse macros that play the game for you. The auction house system that removes the need for players to actually use the system, has been shot down how many times now? The stand on objective pressing 4 gameplay style is frowned upon and they constantly take steps to prevent that. 

But in the face of all of those, you still figure that you should have been allowed to bypass the game and just claim the rewards by waving your magic credit card? 

Great news. Looks like DE currently disagrees with you. So you can play for the rewards, like the rest of us plebes, or not. Your choice. 

 

Maybe next round they'll include unlimited 10k standing rewards for "buy another Tennogen Bundle" so you can have an easier time getting the reward you want? 

 

Good luck with that, Tenno. 

Really, though, who are you trying to fool with that bad acting?

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Just now, NezuHimeSama said:

Really, though, who are you trying to fool with that bad acting?

Has that tactic worked out well for you so far in life? When someone presents points that you don't like, you just switch right to ad homs without even a token show of addressing the points? 

It’s not like you haven't been called out for doing that already, so I am honestly wondering why you keep thinking it's going to start working any better this time? 

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-03-20 at 7:21 PM, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Buying it or getting it from Night Wave probably wouldn't count as all the challenges only seem to tick off when it is in mission.

Well both of those types of things are executed outside of a mission, thus some aspect is testing if that has occurred once players go on a mission.  Checking if the suggestions had been executed would work much the same way.

Edit: Actually having now tested the forma one, the credit is added while you are outside of a mission ()typically in the liset)

Edited by Loswaith

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As stated here but have pasted it below.


 

And not to forget that this 60% is not even weighing in the amount of points each challenge has. It is fine saying 60% counts. But that is 10000*30 = 300000 rep 
300k rep does not come by easily. 

Each week 
((3 elite* 5000) + (7 weeklies * 3000) + (7 week dailies * 1000)) = 43000 rep 

 

300000 / 43000 = (6,976) around 7 weeks of completing all the challenges for these consecutive weeks! 
 

300000 is 60%. Thus a full season consist of 500000 rep. 

500000 / 43000 = (11,63) around 12 weeks for one season.
Seems some what manageable in theory.

20*15 = 300 wolf credits can be earned as extra if you are not missing out on anything. 1K would have been more fair in theory, but right now I do not have any of the prices in sight to be able to judge this accurately. 


If you didn't do all these elite challenges at all.
You will still come around that 300k. 336k to be exact. So far the math seems fair, but you cannot miss out any week and have to do all other challenges for at least 11 weeks. 

And who knows what kind of challenges De will throw in the mix. So far that is one of the major points that has made Night Wave so sketchy. And do not forget about the deadline and the amount of time one has to invest in order to be able to do all these challenges, even if it is just the dailies and weeklies. Because what does not seem to be considered here =

A life outside of Warframe

 

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Your nightwave acts are even less fun to do when they do not register your in-game progress at game crashes or at host migration.

Like losing all your progress of opening relics - 6\10 - down to 0\10 - because of your unstable game.

Just return the quick alert system that was successful for 6 years in combination with the nightwave system.

That way players can choose for themselves what they want to play.

Nightwave is not newbie friendly at all - its acts are no fun to do - pop-up's and rambling by Nora is just annoying at best.

Don't try to force players to play 15 acts each week for 10 weeks to rank up in the nightwave system to get around the same rewards as before - but at a much slower and grinder pace. Let players decide what acts they prefer to play and then let them play those acts again and again - while getting the same amount of XP for that specific act - to rank up in the system.

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Posted (edited)

Week 4 challenges

Really De ... 3 forma in a weapon. Really ...
Forma is not only used as resource to make weapons stronger, it is also used in like 40% of the craft-able weapon. 
Do you know where those forma from NW went? For me they went in getting my MR up. crafting one these eligible weapons.

But I have made an equation about how much time I would need to spend on this game this week in order to meet the quota for this task. 
And you know. It turns out to be 77h18m at least. 


So let's start, let's do the math - all has been calculated in my favor.

I do not have any weapons nor warframe to forma, since this takes way too much time for a little bit of progression, which do not seem to benefit me at this moment.

  • There are stronger weapons to be had than those currently in my possession.
  • A forma right now is more beneficial if it counts towards MR, other than the paracesis, no other weapon currently has such system embedded.

Since I do not have any forma in my inventory, I will need to get them.
It takes roughly between 5 to 10 unrefined relics to get a forma. refining runs and doing the refinement, both cost precious time.
The fastest way to crack a relic is to do survival. if they are present in the fissure, that is.
Each run would take 5 minutes. Endurance runs would have been better, but my equipment cannot keep up and on top of that the RNG for reactants makes it not worth the risk solo. 

So 5*5*3 = 75 minutes. Just for getting forma blue prints. if RNG works in my favor and the void reactants drop in the mission on time, also RNG. 

crafting the forma blue prints which takes around 24 hours each. if I happen to have all the resources

3*24*60 = 4320 minutes. Even though this time is mostly passively spend, it is still time on the deadline that counts.

3*getting forma in / out of foundry and into said weapon.

1*3 = 3 minutes


3 forma in a weapons is 3*30 level 30.
The fastest tested way for me right now is Hydron.
I can do 12 waves solo, which takes around 25 to 30 minutes, which my damage out of won't be enough to hold all enemies back and eventually mission failure.
So back at W10. 20 minutes tops.
Ranking a weapon to R30 takes 4*W10 at hydron ((3*W10)+ (1*W7))

4*20*3 = 240 minutes.

in total

75+4320+3+240= 4638 minutes or 77h18m at least
Not including loading times. 


7*24*60 = 10080 minutes is the total time on the deadline clock.
All though mostly passive that is still (46%) almost 50% of the available time spend on this challenge. Not to forget the most important aspect that will take allot of this time away.

Life out side of Warframe.
 

 

 

TLDR: 
What do you, DE, consider as a veteran and what are the things that need to be done in order for someone to achieve that in your eyes?

Edited by (PS4)Elloshin
typo and other unforeseen happenings
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vor 16 Stunden schrieb (PS4)guzmantt1977:

Did you really just try to silence another person because they don't agree with your position? 

nope. I was just wondering why some people feel obligated to critizie other peoples ideas without providing useful feedback to them. Just saying "your idea is bad" isn't useful in any way.

Just saying "nope NW is good as it is and shoudln't be changed because I can do it so everybody else can do it as well isn't useful as well.

 

vor 16 Stunden schrieb (PS4)guzmantt1977:

Yes this is a place for us to try and improve on the system. But a lot of the suggestions are just plain bad. Sometimes they're bad in a non-obvious way to some people.

so do you really think that you are the alpha who should decide which ideas are bad and which not? Are you really that entitelt to your own S#&$ that you think you can be in the position to say if an idea from another person is bad or not? I really try not to attack you here just to make that clear but you should really think about yourself and your way of communication when you think that you are in the position to judge over other peoples ideas. You are no moderator, no administrator and especially not a developer. You are playing yourself here. Sorry to say but the ironie is strong in your post. You ask me if I really try to silence other people and a few sentences later you say that other peoples ideas are just plain bad. Nice one. Seriously. But this discussion isn't helpful in any way and I do not want to argue with you about that topic as it will not lead in any helpful direction. I wrote my ideas to improve that NW system. I can't do more and I will not stay here to critize other people.

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50 minutes ago, (PS4)Elloshin said:

Week 4 challenges

Really De ... 3 forma in a weapon. Really ...
Forma is not only used as resource to make weapons stronger, it is also used in like 40% of the craft-able weapon. 
Do you know where those forma from NW went? For me they went in getting my MR up. crafting one these eligible weapons.

But I have made an equation about how much time I would need to spend on this game this week in order to meet the quota for this task. 
And you know. It turns out to be 77h18m at least. 


So let's start, let's do the math - all has been calculated in my favor.

I do not have any weapons nor warframe to forma, since this takes way too much time for a little bit of progression, which do not seem to benefit me at this moment.

  • There are stronger weapons to be had than those currently in my possession.
  • A forma right now is more beneficial if it counts towards MR, other than the paracesis, no other weapon currently has such system embedded.

Since I do not have any forma in my inventory, I will need to get them.
It takes roughly between 5 to 10 unrefined relics to get a forma. refining runs and doing the refinement, both cost precious time.
The fastest way to crack a relic is to do survival. if they are present in the fissure, that is.
Each run would take 5 minutes. Endurance runs would have been better, but my equipment cannot keep up and on top of that the RNG for reactants makes it not worth the risk solo. 

So 5*5*3 = 75 minutes. Just for getting forma blue prints. if RNG works in my favor and the void reactants drop in the mission on time, also RNG. 

crafting the forma blue prints which takes around 24 hours each. if I happen to have all the resources

3*24*60 = 4320 minutes. Even though this time is mostly passively spend, it is still time on the deadline that counts.

3*getting forma in / out of foundry and into said weapon.

1*3 = 3 minutes


3 forma in a weapons is 3*30 level 30.
The fastest tested way for me right now is Hydron.
I can do 12 waves solo, which takes around 25 to 30 minutes, which my damage out of won't be enough to hold all enemies back and eventually mission failure.
So back at W10. 20 minutes tops.
Ranking a weapon to R30 takes 4*W10 at hydron ((3*W10)+ (1*W7))

4*20*3 = 240 minutes.

in total

75+4320+3+240= 4638 minutes or 77h18m at least
Not including loading times. 


7*24*60 = 10080 minutes is the total time on the deadline clock.
All though mostly passive that is still (46%) almost 50% of the available time spend on this challenge. Not to forget the most important aspect that will take allot of this time away.

Life out side of Warframe.
 

 

 

TLDR: 
What do you, DE, consider as a veteran and what are the things that need to be done in order for someone to achieve that in your eyes

you have a point. this also back up what I have stated. nw tasks need rebalanced to be more friendly. why not use 1 forma? or do 30min surv instead of 1h etc. not to mention arch tings which has been avoided till recently and guess what go kill profit taker. thing is eaven if you are mr 20, and back after almost a year o pause chances are good not to be able to max in cetus/fortuna and do task, like kill/cap tridolons as well. and in the end eaven if you do all task each week what in the end? you get wolf credit for wolf offerings, most will get set of energize, umbra formas, than kuva, forma bundle or so. which will bring you to question down the line why we get patatoes, forma,kuva in sorties when we will buy it with credit. why have forma and forma bundle and patatoes in market for plat? we can as community argue on this for days and nights but it still remains, unbalanced less friendly with players and lack some more exclusive item to push for. it is like forced for grind, invest than throw it away. example you need I think 75credit for patatoe, you can always sell some augment, mod or part and get 20p for one, same goes for boosters from baro at least some ppl say that. and what you have to do to earn those credit weekly? system need tweak since it is rewarding for someone and punishing for others. it is like spinning MC HAMMER -can't touch this- from saturn six xD 

worst thing is players toxic attitude, look down upon one who started or get back in game recently. it is like have no life out side of game so you have anything what ever is needed for nex resealse. like stfp if you can't do it or if you don't like it. and instead those vets and hard cores say: we want something more exlusive as rewars for us to push for, we say stfu if you can't do it and be deaf to what other ppl suggestion and look at that as nonsense.

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And that want is the key word. Most of us want it. Most of us are more than willing to jump through a few hoops to get it. Some of us don't seem to feel like admitting that we are willingly marching to their tune, and others seem pretty upset that they can't just pay2win this time too. 

For some there's real life issues that can force them to put WF on pause for a month or more. So, it's not a matter of *want* or dedication, definitely. Maybe a matter of *force* to play at a determined time...something boring, tedious, pointless as nightwave challenges, inserted in a time-gated system, only to get a single "endgame" item (...). Ok, umbra forma is "endgame" stuff, but nightwave acts are definitely not endgame...

This is a pretty lame method to increase the players count to me, something I've seen in the *worst* mmo-s or mobile games and something that I've never wanted to see in a game like WF. So, no, i definitely disagree with your point, I'm sorry.

EDIT: I'm at mr26, forma all my frames and weapons, with 2k hours invested in WF. I've done all the challenges right now, but still I think this system is unbalanced, tedious and not fair to the players.

Edited by (PS4)nating51
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

worst thing is players toxic attitude, look down upon one who started or get back in game recently. it is like have no life out side of game so you have anything what ever is needed for nex resealse. like stfp if you can't do it or if you don't like it. and instead those vets and hard cores say: we want something more exlusive as rewars for us to push for, we say stfu if you can't do it and be deaf to what other ppl suggestion and look at that as nonsense.

100% agree. ^

One of the goals that nightwave have rached is to make the community more toxic and polarized as before.

Edited by (PS4)nating51
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Nightwave has definitely polarized the community. My problem with nightwave was and still is the time restrictions. Do this activity within the next 3 days. Do this within the next week and so on. I think most people would have enjoyed nightwave without this added pressure. My original suggestion was to remove the time gating for the weekly tasks to remove this pressure. For people like me who have not yet completed all content, it is at the moment a choice between finishing content or doing the nightwave challenges in the limited time I play every week. I honestly don't see the benefit unless it is to make sure that we spend more time in the game and only in this game. Warframe doesn't need to do that and this sort of pressure will in fact achieve the opposite. I did prefer the challenges this week though as most got competed in normal gameplay. I won't even try to do the profit taker and I am fine with that.

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8 minutes ago, S1lent3cho said:

My problem with nightwave was and still is the time restrictions. Do this activity within the next 3 days. Do this within the next week and so on.

Yup, that is the big issue.

I keep saying seasons just shouldn't expire, so there's no forever missing out. It would solve everything.

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my opinion is that I don't like weekly "tasks". Either they are useless because it's just normal playing, or it's a chore, wasting long minutes whereas you could have done something else. I've played games with this feature and it wasn't why player kept playing, but more a subject of rant.

 

What I would have preferred ?

  • keep "alert" make them a manhunt of fugitives and the wolf, (make the wolf fight the same as the mini stalker event)
  • add a specific challenge for each alert that reward additional standing
  • Make nightwave "credits" earned  at each rank (small amount) in addition to the cosmetic stuff, keep the bonus every 3 ranks, so that you can get a few Nitain even if you don't play that much

 

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I don't really care how hard those challenges are, but i hate time gated challenges (for now, profit taker and sorties, profit taker one is literally impossible for me)

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49 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Yup, that is the big issue.

I keep saying seasons just shouldn't expire, so there's no forever missing out. It would solve everything.

That wasn't exactly what my suggestion was. I would be perfectly fine with seasons not expiring but I guess that would be difficult to implement if they want to keep adding new seasons. What I was wishing for was that the tasks still get unveiled the way they do every week but don't expire till the end of the event. That way it would be a lot less pressure to complete the tasks by the weekend.

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