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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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6 hours ago, (PS4)Elloshin said:

As stated here but have pasted it below.


 

And not to forget that this 60% is not even weighing in the amount of points each challenge has. It is fine saying 60% counts. But that is 10000*30 = 300000 rep 
300k rep does not come by easily. 

Each week 
((3 elite* 5000) + (7 weeklies * 3000) + (7 week dailies * 1000)) = 43000 rep 

 

300000 / 43000 = (6,976) around 7 weeks of completing all the challenges for these consecutive weeks! 
 

300000 is 60%. Thus a full season consist of 500000 rep. 

500000 / 43000 = (11,63) around 12 weeks for one season.
Seems some what manageable in theory.

20*15 = 300 wolf credits can be earned as extra if you are not missing out on anything. 1K would have been more fair in theory, but right now I do not have any of the prices in sight to be able to judge this accurately. 


If you didn't do all these elite challenges at all.
You will still come around that 300k. 336k to be exact. So far the math seems fair, but you cannot miss out any week and have to do all other challenges for at least 11 weeks. 

And who knows what kind of challenges De will throw in the mix. So far that is one of the major points that has made Night Wave so sketchy. And do not forget about the deadline and the amount of time one has to invest in order to be able to do all these challenges, even if it is just the dailies and weeklies. Because what does not seem to be considered here =

A life outside of Warframe

 

Your math is weak. If it's exactly 10 weeks, you will need just under 70% of the standing from the challenges. Yes you can try to do all for the first 7 weeks, or you can play far more comfortably and skip anywhere between 3 and 9 challenges in a week and you would still reach maximum standing, if you choose wisely. So you can toss out the silly "no life outside of warframe" argument. 

If there's an extra week (possible because the first was actually short of a week) that percentage needed drops significantly to under 65% btw. 

But you've also completely failed to factor convict captures. Since this event coincides with an event in the Orb Vallis, and convicts spawning there give double standing, and it's pretty common to see them spawn in most other places too, it's fair to suspect that people are going to run into them many, many times over 10 weeks. So we would be able to skip even more challenges if we have many convict captures. 

Currently there are people who claim to be at or near rank 20. This week isn't done yet. Simple math suggests 6 weeks out of 10 may be enough for them. That's 60% of the challenges needed. 

So anywhere between 60% and 70% may be needed depending on the individual playstyle. Doesn't seem so bad. 

And seriously, so far, most reasonable people seem to agree that the majority of the challenges aren't so very challenging. Look at the ones that draw the loudest complaints, "complete x mission with a friend or clanmate". If people are complaining about that requirement, of all things, then there's really not much for them to complain about. 

5 hours ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

 

Like losing all your progress of opening relics - 6\10 - down to 0\10 - because of your unstable game.

You know that challenge synergised with the "run 3 spy/mobile def/capture/rescue" missions, which guaranteed 1 open relic per run, right? And they tend to do that faster too.

There wasn't any particular reason to try opening them in an endless mission, which probably was a pretty bad choice in retrospect, wasn't it? Why did you make that choice, especially knowing that warframe can spaz out? 

You made a bad choice man. 

5 hours ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

Don't try to force players to play 15 acts each week for 10 weeks to rank up in the nightwave system to get around the same rewards as before - but at a much slower and grinder pace.

LOL. If you are after the wolf creds in the first 30 ranks you don't need to do that. Last cred bundle is around rank 24. 

Are you sure that you've been paying attention to the game you play? 

5 hours ago, (PS4)Elloshin said:

Do you know where those forma from NW went? For me they went in getting my MR up. crafting one these eligible weapons.

Forma doesn't do that in most weapons, mate. Not a great way to start but ok. 

5 hours ago, (PS4)Elloshin said:

But I have made an equation about how much time I would need to spend on this game this week in order to meet the quota for this task. 

And you know. It turns out to be 77h18m at least. 

LOL WUT? 

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  •  A forma right now is more beneficial if it counts towards MR, other than the paracesis, no other weapon currently has such system embedded.

Really? This isn't generally true. Weak weapons can be made significantly stronger if you apply forma and have the mods that will improve them. That's why you may occasionally see lunatics running around in high level content with some of the mk-1 weapons. 😁

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Since I do not have any forma in my inventory, I will need to get them.
It takes roughly between 5 to 10 unrefined relics to get a forma. refining runs and doing the refinement, both cost precious time.
The fastest way to crack a relic is to do survival. if they are present in the fissure, that is.
Each run would take 5 minutes. Endurance runs would have been better, but my equipment cannot keep up and on top of that the RNG for reactants makes it not worth the risk solo. 

WTF are you even talking about here? That's not right, is it? Did they change something again in the latest update? Survival is slow af. 

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So 5*5*3 = 75 minutes. Just for getting forma blue prints. if RNG works in my favor and the void reactants drop in the mission on time, also RNG. 

crafting the forma blue prints which takes around 24 hours each. if I happen to have all the resources

3*24*60 = 4320 minutes. Even though this time is mostly passively spend, it is still time on the deadline that counts.

3*getting forma in / out of foundry and into said weapon.

1*3 = 3 minutes

Neat. But check this sick math I'm about to drop. According to your math, you got 22 prime parts in one of the very slowest methods, in just around an hour and a quarter. If you did another hour and a quarter of that particular mind-numbing slog (why on earth... You know what I'm not even going to ask) you would reasonably have 6 forma bp and 44 parts. 

Then you hop on the trade chat and say "WTS prime junk 5 for 5p can do 7 trades" (yes you probably have a couple of items worth as much as you would make from selling the whole batch as junk, but I'm trying to keep the math to a minimum for you). 

Boom. All of a sudden you now have 35 plat. Which you head to the market and use to buy a 3 forma bundle! 

Only resource needed is credits for the trade tax. And a stick, to beat off all the buyers who are going to flooding to give you their plat at that price. And best of all you did it within a tiny fraction of the time it takes you with your system, plus you have forma bps to craft at your leisure, and 9 prime parts left over. 

I'd say that math is better than your own, wouldn't you? 

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The fastest tested way for me right now is Hydron.

I can do 12 waves solo, which takes around 25 to 30 minutes, which my damage out of won't be enough to hold all enemies back and eventually mission failure.
So back at W10. 20 minutes tops.
Ranking a weapon to R30 takes 4*W10 at hydron ((3*W10)+ (1*W7))

4*20*3 = 240 minutes.

in total

75+4320+3+240= 4638 minutes or 77h18m at least
Not including loading times. 

 

Ok. Seriously. You should put down your calculator and spend a bit more time figuring out how to play warframe. So much of what you are saying you do to go faster is just wrong. Why would you solo Hydron? That makes no sense. Good lord that would be soul crushing. 

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Not to forget the most important aspect that will take allot of this time away.

Life out side of Warframe.
 

 

 



TLDR: 
What do you, DE, consider as a veteran and what are the things that need to be done in order for someone to achieve that in your eyes?

You keep bringing that up, as though you believe that there are any players who don't have lives outside of warframe. That doesn't make sense either. 

But seriously, so much of what you said is wrong, I have to ask. Are you trolling? 

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Here is the suggestion for Alert missions changes. It also include a new invasion mode to make the boring infested one way better.

 

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4 hours ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

nope. I was just wondering why some people feel obligated to critizie other peoples ideas without providing useful feedback to them. Just saying "your idea is bad" isn't useful in any way.

Just saying "nope NW is good as it is and shoudln't be changed because I can do it so everybody else can do it as well isn't useful as well.

Take a look at the posts we have here. There's a lot of feedback and feedback on the feedback, and even feedback on that feedback. 

But some people who feel like giving feedback, don't seem to want others to give feedback. For example check this super toxic piece of passive aggressive bait:

 

4 hours ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

so do you really think that you are the alpha who should decide which ideas are bad and which not?

See how you are trying to tell me to shut up and not comment on you trying to tell someone else to shut up? Yeah. That. 

This is feedback, we ALL get a say in what is good and what is bad. That's how it works. Trying to take that away from others is wrong, and you should stop doing it. 

4 hours ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

 

Are you really that entitelt to your own S#&$ that you think you can be in the position to say if an idea from another person is bad or not?

Yes, because "feedback". It's what everyone is doing here. Otherwise what are people doing telling DE that their idea, that they implemented, in their game is "bad"? 

4 hours ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

I really try not to attack you here just to make that clear but you should really think about yourself and your way of communication when you think that you are in the position to judge over other peoples ideas.

Are you sure that you grasp the concept of "feedback"? It's not the same as "everyone has to agree with you". Right now there are people who seem to be demanding that DE change the system to another system that actually seems to work exactly like the current system. 

There are folks demanding that Tennogen items be given to them for free, which is probably a pretty serious violation of the rights of the Tennogen creators. 

There's one dude who did some wonky math to show that it's impossible to complete the 3 forma challenge, based on a whole heap of assumptions that are really not good. 

Those are all "not a good idea". 

4 hours ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

You are no moderator, no administrator and especially not a developer. You are playing yourself here. Sorry to say but the ironie is strong in your post. You ask me if I really try to silence other people and a few sentences later you say that other peoples ideas are just plain bad. Nice one.

Does anyone need to be a Moderator to give feedback? If so, then we're all in deep trouble, I figure. 

And if you can't see a difference between disagreeing with someone and explaining why, and telling them that people who dissent should not get to respond at all, you might have a promising career path as a fascist dictator. 

4 hours ago, (XB1)Rufnax said:

Seriously. But this discussion isn't helpful in any way and I do not want to argue with you about that topic as it will not lead in any helpful direction. I wrote my ideas to improve that NW system. I can't do more and I will not stay here to critize other people.

This part is probably true. You don't seem to want to argue. You just want people to agree with what you said. 

Sadly that's not how feedback works. 

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1 hour ago, S1lent3cho said:

That wasn't exactly what my suggestion was. I would be perfectly fine with seasons not expiring but I guess that would be difficult to implement if they want to keep adding new seasons. What I was wishing for was that the tasks still get unveiled the way they do every week but don't expire till the end of the event. That way it would be a lot less pressure to complete the tasks by the weekend.

🤔

Yeah that would lead to a lot of procrastination, and at the end of the event there would be a horrible wailing and gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness from people saying that they have 1 week to complete dozens upon dozens of accumulated challenges. 

 

They already set it up so we can hit max rank with just over 2/3 of the standing in a given week, not counting wolf captures. 

 

I sort of liked the suggestion of a mop up week where they offer us a chance to do the stuff we passed on, but I don't think we really need it. 

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3 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Yup, that is the big issue.

I keep saying seasons just shouldn't expire, so there's no forever missing out. It would solve everything.

Ok so I've been here for a year so there's stuff I don't have first hand experience with. You seem to have been here a while, let me put the question to you:

Apart from stuff in the founders pack, what stuff hasn't come back? Is there a current pattern of "forever missing out" or is that just something that is not a real danger? If it's not a thing that's going to happen, then what does that "solution" achieve? 

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3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

🤔

Yeah that would lead to a lot of procrastination, and at the end of the event there would be a horrible wailing and gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness from people saying that they have 1 week to complete dozens upon dozens of accumulated challenges. 

 

They already set it up so we can hit max rank with just over 2/3 of the standing in a given week, not counting wolf captures. 

 

I sort of liked the suggestion of a mop up week where they offer us a chance to do the stuff we passed on, but I don't think we really need it. 

That is a possibility for some of the challenges of course. And procrastination is always possible. I just think that keeping it alive longer would mean a lot of the tasks would be done passively just playing the game instead of focusing on completing nightwave challenges. I do agree with you that you need only about 70% tasks completed. Still people being people will focus on the quickest way to complete challenges which meant 10 runs of lith capture which I normally wouldn't have done since I have all relic rewards for them. I am certainly happy that the game is taking me out of my comfort zone and making me play all sorts of content. I would just be happier if it would let me do it at my own pace. One thing is definitely a problem though and that is the Nitain extract. It is definitely a lot grindier now than earlier and it is competing with potatoes  for what to spend your wolf creds on.

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6 minutes ago, S1lent3cho said:

Still people being people will focus on the quickest way to complete challenges which meant 10 runs of lith capture which I normally wouldn't have done since I have all relic rewards for them.

Huh. Didn't think about that. I just did the ones with fissures. That way I was able to kill 2 birds with one st🤔 .. Uh 20 birds with 10 reli 😓... 10 bushes with 5 hands.. 🤕 I did it efficiently according to my needs?

6 minutes ago, S1lent3cho said:

I am certainly happy that the game is taking me out of my comfort zone and making me play all sorts of content. I would just be happier if it would let me do it at my own pace.

Well most of the challenges seem to be doable in short order if you are able to do them at all. Most people seem to be pushing through and using the rest of their time doing whatever. 

6 minutes ago, S1lent3cho said:

One thing is definitely a problem though and that is the Nitain extract. It is definitely a lot grindier now than earlier and it is competing with potatoes  for what to spend your wolf creds on.

Yeah they should take the potatos out. We still get them from gift of the lotus. 

 

What I'm hoping for is that in between seasons we get a week or two of just creds for the newbs. 6-8 possible ranks of just creds (on top of what we can already get during the 10 weeks) would definitely help alleviate the problem for them, and help manage the supply and demand for the mods. 

 

We do have a great community and I'm sure that a lot of us will be helping them out as we can, but I don't doubt that there's going to be predatory pricing as well. 

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Posted (edited)

Firstly, Nightwave really, really needs the Tier system removed and changed to a currency base system and be more like Baro. I enjoy Warframe, but I have been playing the game for a very long time and I want to continue to do so. Making me work my way through tiers in order to get a very small number of rewards I really do want and feeling like I'm having to work my way through a bunch of rewards I just don't care about is very frustrating and makes me feel like I have to play more than I want to for literally 1 reward. I really don't care about emblems, most sigils and glpyhs, noggles, captura scenes, or emotes. Getting that stuff makes me feel like I'm getting no reward at all because I just do not care about them or want them. I also am a Whale, I don't need slots. I think it's great for the Free to Play players, but I have Warframe slots that will remain empty forever already and I usually have enough plat to buy Weapon Slots when I need them. I'm basically only interested in forma, a mod or two here and there when it's for a weapon I actually like, maybe the Kuva and Armor/Syandana if they look good to me, and the Umbra Forma. And since there's no other way to get Umbra Forma, players with limited time either can't manage it or can't play the game they want to play it. That just makes me resentful because I want to continue enjoying Warframe, but I need to be able to play it at my own pace, which means playing only when I feel like playing and taking breaks when I need to. Barring people from rewards because they have limited amounts of time or simply don't want to get to burnout levels where they never want to play the game again just feels poorly thought out and only caters to the hardcore who can play every day for 10 years without feeling like they are burning out. I need to limit the amount I play Warframe in order to be able to continue playing the game. I am MR26 and have been playing for years, I just don't feel like I will be able to keep up a pace that will allow me to get the few rewards I want out of this system without making me burnout. Making it a Currency based system would make it more of a win for everyone. People who don't play a ton can get the rewards they want, people who want more rewards can choose to play more to get them.

Secondly, many of the tasks feel like they dictating what you do in game, especially for people with limited time to play, rather than being something you can accomplish simply by playing. The vast majority of tasks should be things that can accomplished with limited or no forced direction. Opening Relics is one thing, you still get to choose what you play and most people are going to be opening relics to get parts or ducats anyway. Killing a certain number of enemies or focusing on damage types, okay, that's cool, I can do that however I want to do it. But this week we had like 4 tasks that forced me to play specific mission types, 2 of those didn't bother me, but I really don't enjoy Assassinate, Rescue, Capture, or Spy missions very much and the game was forcing me to do Rescue and Spy this week. It's fine if I need to do one of those for a Sortie or something, but other wise, I'd really rather spend my time doing something I enjoy in the game rather than a check list of mission types I don't really like that much. That's especially irritating for people with limited time to play the game because the game is basically telling them "If you don't play the check list, no Umbra Forma for you." Also, this With Friends/Clan is just discriminatory. My clan exists so we have access to dojo benefits because a lot of us take long breaks and we don't want to have to look for clans to join every time we come off a break because we were kicked out of a clan for inactivity. I don't have friends that play Warframe and, even though people will try to counter me by saying it's not difficult, I should not have to go out of my way to find fake friends in order to accomplish something in the game. "In a group", okay, that's fine. And as for the survival issue, 60 minutes is painful for a lot of people, especially ones with time limitations. 40 minutes is pushing it for me and I just get sick of it. My group failed that one by like 10 minutes and I just did not have the motivation or energy to even consider attempting it again because it's just such a long slog for a single mission.

Please, just let me be able to play the game as only much as I am able to  play it, mostly doing the things I actually want to do in the game, and be able to get the rewards I actually care about.

Edited by Ceryk
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7 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Your math is weak. If it's exactly 10 weeks, you will need just under 70% of the standing from the challenges. Yes you can try to do all for the first 7 weeks, or you can play far more comfortably and skip anywhere between 3 and 9 challenges in a week and you would still reach maximum standing, if you choose wisely. So you can toss out the silly "no life outside of warframe" argument. 

 If there's an extra week (possible because the first was actually short of a week) that percentage needed drops significantly to under 65% btw. 

But you've also completely failed to factor convict captures. Since this event coincides with an event in the Orb Vallis, and convicts spawning there give double standing, and it's pretty common to see them spawn in most other places too, it's fair to suspect that people are going to run into them many, many times over 10 weeks. So we would be able to skip even more challenges if we have many convict captures. 

Currently there are people who claim to be at or near rank 20. This week isn't done yet. Simple math suggests 6 weeks out of 10 may be enough for them. That's 60% of the challenges needed. 

So anywhere between 60% and 70% may be needed depending on the individual playstyle. Doesn't seem so bad. 

And seriously, so far, most reasonable people seem to agree that the majority of the challenges aren't so very challenging. Look at the ones that draw the loudest complaints, "complete x mission with a friend or clanmate". If people are complaining about that requirement, of all things, then there's really not much for them to complain about. 

You know that challenge synergised with the "run 3 spy/mobile def/capture/rescue" missions, which guaranteed 1 open relic per run, right? And they tend to do that faster too.

There wasn't any particular reason to try opening them in an endless mission, which probably was a pretty bad choice in retrospect, wasn't it? Why did you make that choice, especially knowing that warframe can spaz out? 

You made a bad choice man. 

LOL. If you are after the wolf creds in the first 30 ranks you don't need to do that. Last cred bundle is around rank 24. 

Are you sure that you've been paying attention to the game you play? 

Forma doesn't do that in most weapons, mate. Not a great way to start but ok. 

LOL WUT? 

Really? This isn't generally true. Weak weapons can be made significantly stronger if you apply forma and have the mods that will improve them. That's why you may occasionally see lunatics running around in high level content with some of the mk-1 weapons. 😁

WTF are you even talking about here? That's not right, is it? Did they change something again in the latest update? Survival is slow af. 

Neat. But check this sick math I'm about to drop. According to your math, you got 22 prime parts in one of the very slowest methods, in just around an hour and a quarter. If you did another hour and a quarter of that particular mind-numbing slog (why on earth... You know what I'm not even going to ask) you would reasonably have 6 forma bp and 44 parts. 

Then you hop on the trade chat and say "WTS prime junk 5 for 5p can do 7 trades" (yes you probably have a couple of items worth as much as you would make from selling the whole batch as junk, but I'm trying to keep the math to a minimum for you). 

Boom. All of a sudden you now have 35 plat. Which you head to the market and use to buy a 3 forma bundle! 

Only resource needed is credits for the trade tax. And a stick, to beat off all the buyers who are going to flooding to give you their plat at that price. And best of all you did it within a tiny fraction of the time it takes you with your system, plus you have forma bps to craft at your leisure, and 9 prime parts left over. 

I'd say that math is better than your own, wouldn't you? 

Ok. Seriously. You should put down your calculator and spend a bit more time figuring out how to play warframe. So much of what you are saying you do to go faster is just wrong. Why would you solo Hydron? That makes no sense. Good lord that would be soul crushing. 

You keep bringing that up, as though you believe that there are any players who don't have lives outside of warframe. That doesn't make sense either. 

But seriously, so much of what you said is wrong, I have to ask. Are you trolling? 

Do you even know how much time it takes to complete most of these challenges that you called my argument invalid. I understand that these are different from person to person. 

I did not fail to factor the captures. It is just that they are unpredictable, unreliable and not guaranteed to spawn. And besides, 150/300 rep of 10k is not something that I would and I know many wouldn't farm especially under the previously mentioned conditions. 34* times to encounter them per rank. 

 

The reason why I brought the forma weapon thing in to this discussion is because the whole progress of the forma, could have been out into other means of the game, even more so if you take the MR in mind. 

I specially like the part where you drop down your math, sick bruv. But here is the thing. In a matter where time is most essential, the last thing you sometime can do is to rely on others. I might be wrong for this and that is why all of this is from the perspective of a solo person. Of course this all would go way faster with other and also mind-numbing when doing it alone. But the first Ayatan challenge teached me that I cannot rely on others to get what I need on my own. And thus I failed to get the last one. Mostly my fault and this is why I do not take them to account in all of this. 

But you are right in almost every regard, there are simpler ways to do so, but from a solo perspective and in a time limit where everybody does, and will do the same. It all boils down to what I can achieve for myself, especially when others do not benefit from what I do nor have their regards.

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I think a good idea for a daily task would be to fully loot all containers (and lockers?) in a mission.

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8 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Ok so I've been here for a year so there's stuff I don't have first hand experience with. You seem to have been here a while, let me put the question to you:

Apart from stuff in the founders pack, what stuff hasn't come back? Is there a current pattern of "forever missing out" or is that just something that is not a real danger? If it's not a thing that's going to happen, then what does that "solution" achieve? 

There has been things that have been unavailable for years because it was event exclusive for a time. Any recent event exclusive items also apply here.

When something goes away, you have no idea when DE is bringing it back. Memestrike used to be over 1000pl before acolytes started getting the ghoul purge treatment, and even then, you'll still need to either wait wait wait for months on end or pony up a couple hundred pl to get one.

And then there's the issue of Umbral forma; there's no other way to obtain this, and the number you obtain is going to directly impact how you can or can't build your frames or weapons. This thing shouldn't even exist, but missing out on one means you have one less umbral polarity to minmax a frame with.

 

On the other hand, what does having a season that doesn't expire do that's so horrible that it must be demonized in spite of the fact that it fixes the problems so many people have with nightwave? "oh no people might not miss out"?

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Elloshin said:

Do you even know how much time it takes to complete most of these challenges that you called my argument invalid. I understand that these are different from person to person. 

A few hours was the amount being bandied about by players in the first few weeks, which included 2 hour long survivals. 

And no, the "we have a life outside of the game" is always invalid because it applies to all of us. We all have lives outside of the game. Anyone who claims that the reason they can't do something is because they have a life is just trying to suggest that others don't, and that's nonsense. 

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I did not fail to factor the captures. It is just that they are unpredictable, unreliable and not guaranteed to spawn. And besides, 150/300 rep of 10k is not something that I would and I know many wouldn't farm especially under the previously mentioned conditions. 34* times to encounter them per rank. 

And there are people pointing out that they've earned about 3 extra ranks from those. I know that I have gotten some standing, and it has made a difference, but I spent a fair amount of my time in game during the first two weeks in Sanctuary working on my focus, so not many convicts. 

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The reason why I brought the forma weapon thing in to this discussion is because the whole progress of the forma, could have been out into other means of the game, even more so if you take the MR in mind. 

Dude, sorry but the vast majority of what was said about the forma was flat out wrong. If you are trying to show what someone who is doing absolutely the wrong thing, it might be something that is possible. 

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I specially like the part where you drop down your math, sick bruv. But here is the thing. In a matter where time is most essential, the last thing you sometime can do is to rely on others. I might be wrong for this and that is why all of this is from the perspective of a solo person. Of course this all would go way faster with other and also mind-numbing when doing it alone.

Affinity range, and 4 people killing all at the same time, you gain affinity passively from any kills. That's why people use ESO to power level now. Regular onslaught is pretty fast too, as long as you're not the Saryn. I'm working on focus so I'm Saryn quite a bit. 

If you are going to solo, you should probably be doing stealth exterminate using that weapon or something. 

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But the first Ayatan challenge teached me that I cannot rely on others to get what I need on my own. And thus I failed to get the last one. Mostly my fault and this is why I do not take them to account in all of this. 

I didn't even bother. Could probably have traded for them, but it wasn't important enough. I had enough standing and just went back to focus farming. 

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But you are right in almost every regard, there are simpler ways to do so, but from a solo perspective and in a time limit where everybody does, and will do the same. It all boils down to what I can achieve for myself, especially when others do not benefit from what I do nor have their regards.

Again, from a solo perspective, Hydron is not a great idea. Just like selling all of the prime parts for plat and buying the premade forma. (Really on PS4 1:1p will get you all the sales you can handle so you could possibly have gotten all your forma on the first day if you wanted.) 

And it's possible that could have formad 2 pieces, and leveled both at the same time if you were willing and able to do group runs. (Even though it's a fair bit slower.) 

If you want, look for me in game and drop a friend request. I still have a gazillion focus left to farm, and if our times and connections match up, I can take you to onslaught for a spell if you want. 

26 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

There has been things that have been unavailable for years because it was event exclusive for a time. Any recent event exclusive items also apply here.

When something goes away, you have no idea when DE is bringing it back. Memestrike used to be over 1000pl before acolytes started getting the ghoul purge treatment, and even then, you'll still need to either wait wait wait for months on end or pony up a couple hundred pl to get one.

And then there's the issue of Umbral forma; there's no other way to obtain this, and the number you obtain is going to directly impact how you can or can't build your frames or weapons. This thing shouldn't even exist, but missing out on one means you have one less umbral polarity to minmax a frame with.

So.... If I'm reading it right thats, "not so much, most stuff has actually come back around at some point". And it looks like the trend is moving away from that wait years before this item shows back up? 

And we've heard already that they plan to have another season. So it's just as possible that the umbral forma will be around again in the foreseeable future? 

And wouldn't those able to minmax to the point of needing that umbral forma be the most likely to be able to cheese most of these challenges in a couple of hours a week? So I should think that they'd have next to no difficulty reaching max tier with minimal effort. 

I haven't really run into any enemies that meant that I had to have umbral forma on, and the primed mods couldn't be used instead. Do they normally show up in regular casual play? 

35 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

On the other hand, what does having a season that doesn't expire do that's so horrible that it must be demonized in spite of the fact that it fixes the problems so many people have with nightwave? "oh no people might not miss out"?

Because, if it never ends then we never get the chance to get another. Do you see? 

So you're asking for all of us to be forced to have only the single reward, to accommodate people who may never bother to get it. I'd rather have seasons that flow one into the next as fast as possible and make it to max rank, but I accept that would lead to some ridiculous levels of possible power creep so I'm content to wait for it to roll around again. 

Demonising the system because it is going to expire is no better than what you accuse others of. 

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Ofc the umbral forma will be there next season, probably in the exact same place. If you missed it this time, you'll miss it again. Don't see how that solves anything.

Not everyone plays Warframe like a job, and the whole point of Warframe is to minmax your Warframe and weapons. If you can't do what you want in a game, why even play it?

 

I never suggested seasons shouldn't come out. I suggested they shouldn't expire. Is there some magical thing preventing multiple available seasons? Because I can think of at least 3 ways just off the top of my head to solve that, top to bottom, with just a concept.

Switch seasons via launcher, switch seasons in-game, complete prior seasons to unlock next season.

 

It really seems like you just want to argue for the sake of arguing, though, with all those accusations and assumptions.

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NEED the alerts, can't play game anymore cause now I need to dig into the navigation console and invest more time to get a mission going... Quick play missions are gone now and I need them in order to play.... syndicate missions, invasion missions, void missions all those i play when I need the rewards they give... but what do i play now when i only want a nightwave reward? go to the planets and replay the same missions again? 

I honestly think removing alert missions was a bad move (nightwave and stuff is a good addition though, removing alerts is not)

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7 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And no, the "we have a life outside of the game" is always invalid because it applies to all of us. We all have lives outside of the game. Anyone who claims that the reason they can't do something is because they have a life is just trying to suggest that others don't, and that's nonsense.

have to strongly dissagree with this. we can argue about life outside and nonsense thing. you missed something... it is not trying to suggest that someone do or don't, it is about been forced to do something for specific amount of time or grind everything so you have anything needed for what ever is released next. 

and yeah just for some ppl life out side does not give them much time to play, thus cant do specific task. they drop for fun when they can, so limitation in general is somekind of punishing and been forced. for instance why do 1h surv? 20-40 min could also do the job, since old system of rotation majoroty of player are used to that "time duration" of mission. and those with less free time can always do 20 min, or look at gift of lotus surv, it is like 10-30min or what ever it is not 1h, which you can fail  so btw it is wasted time.

I did not read that they complian about system it self like it is bad or something. I my self find that some balancing, tweaks are needed but basic idea and sys are good. also lack of some more exclusive content for veterans, hard cores or who ever is willing have something to push for insted of stuff like umbra, energize, kuva ect. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Malvavisc0 said:

NEED the alerts, can't play game anymore cause now I need to dig into the navigation console and invest more time to get a mission going... Quick play missions are gone now and I need them in order to play.... syndicate missions, invasion missions, void missions all those i play when I need the rewards they give... but what do i play now when i only want a nightwave reward? go to the planets and replay the same missions again? 

I honestly think removing alert missions was a bad move (nightwave and stuff is a good addition though, removing alerts is not)

It really was nice to have half a dozen casual missions that had slightly better than average rewards. Waiting for alerts for the "good stuff" sucked the first time around, but the alerts themselves, for a bit of extra credits or some kavat genetic codes now and again was nice.

I don't remember ever being that frustrated at the alerts, though, since the rewards were all always on rotation and would be available again in short enough order. Maybe a reactor or catalyst bp alert very early on.

Edited by NezuHimeSama
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4 hours ago, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

have to strongly dissagree with this. we can argue about life outside and nonsense thing. you missed something... it is not trying to suggest that someone do or don't, it is about been forced to do something for specific amount of time or grind everything so you have anything needed for what ever is released next

Weird. I've skipped any of the challenges that I felt were not worth doing. I have seen posts by others saying that they're doing the same. I even saw one where the person just straight up opted out of the whole nightwave because they didn't feel like the rewards were worth it. 

That says that nobody is actually being forced to participate. Everyone is free to opt out. So I'm going to be pointing out that this claim is also nonsense that can be thrown right out. If you want the rewards you can do the challenges. If not, great, end of story. 

 

4 hours ago, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

and yeah just for some ppl life out side does not give them much time to play, thus cant do specific task. they drop for fun when they can, so limitation in general is somekind of punishing and been forced.

There is also no punishment for not participating. Not being given a reward that you haven't earned is not the same as punishment. People need to grasp that. Saying "hey I know that you wanted me to do x, but I decided to just play some other game instead for the whole week, can I still have the reward please, kthnxbai", would be ridiculous. But if you check there's actually no punishment for doing that. So yeah, that claim is out as well. 

 

4 hours ago, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

for instance why do 1h surv? 20-40 min could also do the job, since old system of rotation majoroty of player are used to that "time duration" of mission. and those with less free time can always do 20 min, or look at gift of lotus surv, it is like 10-30min or what ever it is not 1h, which you can fail  so btw it is wasted time.

There were 2 challenges that asked people to do 1 hour survival. You could have skipped both and still made a minimum made 33k standing that week. You only need 30k per on average over the 10 weeks to get to the maximum tier. 

DE didn't force anyone to even attempt those challenges. If you felt that your time would be betting spent elsewhere, you could have gone ahead and done that instead. There's no problem here. 

Also no. Failing to meet the hour, is supposed to be a possibility. You expect that we should automatically succeed once we load in? And you're given a reward every 5 minutes in survivals. Failing to make the hour, but successful extraction still got you those rewards. So it wasn't a waste. 

4 hours ago, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

I did not read that they complian about system it self like it is bad or something. I my self find that some balancing, tweaks are needed but basic idea and sys are good. also lack of some more exclusive content for veterans, hard cores or who ever is willing have something to push for insted of stuff like umbra, energize, kuva ect. 

If you haven't seen that, you haven't been reading people's posts. 

And yes, we are aware that some people may want the system to change to one where newbs and casuals don't need to do the more difficult challenges. And more difficult challenges should be added for more advanced players that gives rewards over-and-beyond the ones that newbs would generally be able to put to use. 

Several people have pointed out that what is proposed is, and I feel the need to emphasize, THE EXACT SAME THING AS THE CURRENT SYSTEM. 

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The friend ones are killing me...Too Anti-Social and my family is avoiding Warframe like the plague..

 I'm not a fan of the chase and capture the animals...but that's just me...

Other than that..I've enjoyed having something to do....

 

I would say don't add PVP...judging from the years of being on the forums with the PVE players... that would be ill-advised...

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

There is also no punishment for not participating. Not being given a reward that you haven't earned is not the same as punishment.

not been able to participate for specific task is some kind of punishment. arch things, get back in game in midle of nm etc... 

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And yes, we are aware that some people may want the system to change to one where newbs and casuals don't need to do the more difficult challenges. And more difficult challenges should be added for more advanced players that gives rewards over-and-beyond the ones that newbs would generally be able to put to use. 

I do agree with this, and as stated need more exlusive reward in adition to offered ones.

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Also no. Failing to meet the hour, is supposed to be a possibility. You expect that we should automatically succeed once we load in?

I do disagree here... first it was easy to achive with right team/team players and setup. and fail in late stage of mission duo no lf support, thus mission it self is wasted time consider 1h request and "need" to try again and again(clan mate did gone trough this). 20-40 min could do job as well, and for instance another 1h no support and enemy lvl to start with 400 would be more challenging and more ellite than offered ellite at that period. this would give you extra points and would be adition to other tasks. this would work if some extra reward in nw where presented. but again it is just a suggestion. 

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

DE didn't force anyone to even attempt those challenges. If you felt that your time would be betting spent elsewhere, you could have gone ahead and done that instead. There's no problem here.

also disagree here. by making something locked away behind by doing specific task  for specific period and with sufficent quantity is some sort of forcing. and if you join in middle of nw you know you wont get it thus "force" you to not eaven bother. game it self is not that alive as b4, so give some reward that is locked by doing for how many weeks? is it "forcing" to "play" and "stay"? or is it more "work" to "get" in game that is based upon "grind" and "time" concept. 

in simple terms, I want to play for fun do bit of work here and there in process, but I dont want to stay ingame and  "work/grind" for some stuff that is not exclusive in general. game need to be more dynamic not more requesting in term of my free time, rigg and grind for stuff thus "force" me to pay to get/have/win. like friend asked me (joke a bit): " you still play that game? after how many years you still did not finish it? is there end of it or just grind grind?" 

Edited by -HoB-AngelofRevenge
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1 hour ago, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

not been able to participate for specific task is some kind of punishment. arch things, get back in game in midle of nm etc... 

No. It's a pity, a shame, an unfortunate happenstance, but not a punishment. There is no penalty, just a lack of reward; that is fair because those players didn't earn the reward. They can try to ready themselves for the next time it rolls around. And if they can't? Well aim for the time after that. 

 

1 hour ago, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

I do disagree here... first it was easy to achive with right team/team players and setup. and fail in late stage of mission duo no lf support, thus mission it self is wasted time consider 1h request and "need" to try again and again(clan mate did gone trough this). 20-40 min could do job as well, and for instance another 1h no support and enemy lvl to start with 400 would be more challenging and more ellite than offered ellite at that period. this would give you extra points and would be adition to other tasks. this would work if some extra reward in nw where presented. but again it is just a suggestion. 

If that happened it's because they were NOT ready. If your complaint was about a bug or a host migration, I'd have sympathy. But it's just about "some people aren't able to do that" so.... And it's not reasonable to blame anyone else for our own lack of preparation or ability. Those two are literally the "over the top challenges for veterans" you proposed should be added. They're not necessary to reach max rank. They're not a problem. 

1 hour ago, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

also disagree here. by making something locked away behind by doing specific task  for specific period and with sufficent quantity is some sort of forcing. and if you join in middle of nw you know you wont get it thus "force" you to not eaven bother. game it self is not that alive as b4, so give some reward that is locked by doing for how many weeks? is it "forcing" to "play" and "stay"? or is it more "work" to "get" in game that is based upon "grind" and "time" concept. 

Again, no. We can choose to forego those rewards. So we aren't being "forced" to do anything. Now if you said that you want the reward so you are going to be doing the challenges, great for you. Hopefully you will succeed. If you don't, better luck next time. 

And saying that newbs are forced to forego the elite challenges because they are not yet at that level of progress and wouldn't be able to complete the challenges anyway...... Why are people acting surprised by this. No newb is going to be, because literally everything, the entire star chart, the weapons, the mastery rank system, the syndicates, the Warframes, every single thing works that way. If you never noticed that, you missed enormous portions of the game. 

 

1 hour ago, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

in simple terms, I want to play for fun do bit of work here and there in process, but I dont want to stay ingame and  "work/grind" for some stuff that is not exclusive in general. game need to be more dynamic not more requesting in term of my free time, rigg and grind for stuff thus "force" me to pay to get/have/win. like friend asked me (joke a bit): " you still play that game? after how many years you still did not finish it? is there end of it or just grind grind?" 

A lot of the tier rewards are exclusive. The two at the very top are what most of us are grinding for. If they don't interest you, you aren't being forced to try and get to that point, just opt out. 

 

And really, if you time how long it takes many of us to do the majority of the challenges if we put a reasonable effort into it, it's probably not very long at all. Especially since many of them synergise and we can do multiple challenges simultaneously, or even complete the challenges while doing other in-game content, like thermia fractures. 

 

And remind your friend that they keep adding more and more new stuff, and most of it is pretty cool. But if you don't like grind, f2p may not be a good fit for you. Just saying. 

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36 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

If your complaint was about a bug or a host migration, I'd have sympathy. 

Hmmm...

On 2019-03-21 at 8:23 AM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You know that challenge synergised with the "run 3 spy/mobile def/capture/rescue" missions, which guaranteed 1 open relic per run, right? And they tend to do that faster too.

There wasn't any particular reason to try opening them in an endless mission, which probably was a pretty bad choice in retrospect, wasn't it? Why did you make that choice, especially knowing that warframe can spaz out? 

You made a bad choice man. 

Yes, the sympathy is palpable...

 

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Its simple, I havent been spending money since Nightwave, once ive done my last few tasks I wont even be playing anymore.

What you have done with nightwave is increased the grind by 10 and added a much longer wait inbetween rotation of items and added a punishment of me loosing all my progress if I don't do enough of your chores.

Unless I see alerts back in the game very soon as they were I won't be coming back, never mind open my wallet.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

A lot of the tier rewards are exclusive. The two at the very top are what most of us are grinding for. If they don't interest you, you aren't being forced to try and get to that point, just opt out.

it is resource like other, so notting exlusive... cosmetic aint so much, how ever some more cosmetic may give another light or something, DE can add some stuff later. it may not be most representative example but, for instance primed chamber is exclusive, maybe not most useful but little number of players have it.

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And really, if you time how long it takes many of us to do the majority of the challenges if we put a reasonable effort into it, it's probably not very long at all. Especially since many of them synergise and we can do multiple challenges simultaneously, or even complete the challenges while doing other in-game content, like thermia fractures

I do agree.

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

No. It's a pity, a shame, an unfortunate happenstance, but not a punishment. There is no penalty, just a lack of reward; that is fair because those players didn't earn the reward. They can try to ready themselves for the next time it rolls around. And if they can't? Well aim for the time after that. 

50:50 agree. depend how you look at it. It is like to say vampire is good thing if you have high blood pressure...

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Hmmm...

Yes, the sympathy is palpable...

 

Oh I sympathised. If I knew that was what he was doing I'd have advised that there's another way that is safer. 

But we do know that warframe can spaz out. So if you are choosing to run an endless mission that you don't need to, then you are really putting yourself at risk. That's why I asked why they chose that. 

 

If I didn't sympathise I wouldn't have offered the explanation for the otherwise way to do it, which may come in handy for them in the future. I'd have just left them to wallow in the mess of their self-inflicted failure on what was apparently a very simple challenge. 

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Very soon the players will start dropping more and more, less and less will come back, a few will get their forma and then the game will become a vacant shell. Good work DE could of just gave us our alerts back and ran Nigthwave side by side letting us enjoy the best of both worlds, instead your arrogance, ego and greed will destroy this title and leave your company to be remembered as just another greedy game studio instead of a company that made something fun and enjoyable...

Thanks DE, you opened my wallet, the first ever to get a micro transaction out of me and gratefully I suppose you showed me the light and now I have firmly shut it again, see you later Free2Play you always end with the same garbage tactics sooner or later.

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