Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[BornWithTeeth]

A crosspost of some critical feedback!

I hate that I have to prefix this by making this fact clear, but I am in fact kicking ass at Nightwave. I’m averaging 43k standing per week, and will have the max tier reached by week seven or eight. 

 

Now that that’s out there...

 

There are now three significant criticisms of Nightwave and the way it’s affecting gameplay and game behaviour.

 

1. Nightwave’s setup is potentially very unfair to players with ongoing family responsibilities or who travel for work or other occupational requirements, and it could seriously benefit from the inclusion of some kind of catchup mechanic. On the topic of time requirements, well, even some folks who were enjoying Nightwave found combining it with the last week of Thermia made it a chore.

 

2. The Nightwave activities have nothing to do with the Nightwave narrative. Before the launch of Nightwave, DE spoke about it as if it were a narrative campaign of linked mini-events, of missions that would replace Alerts but...nah. It’s just a set of weekly chores that have nothing to do with what Nora’s rattling on about.

 

And,

 

3. Nightwave is now encouraging the following behaviour: “I have amber stars and Ayatans, but I better hold onto them. Better not unveil this Riven, there’s probably a challenge about that coming up. I’ll stash these Apothics, make sure I have them when I need them. I should Forma my new gun, buuuuut, well, that challenge is probably coming around again. In fact, any kind of limited resource will now have to wait to be used until Nightwave is telling me to use it.”

That’s obviously dumb and counterproductive and I reckon that DE did not intend to encourage this attitude. But it’s kinda the prudent response to Nightwave.

 

 

 

Now then. I’m going to get back to wishing for the following Elite weekly: “Kill 2,000 Enemies With Operator Amps And Powers.”

Edited March 26, 2019 by BornWithTeeth

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)jaegerbombtastic said:

Unless it’s fixed, both my fiancé and I did not receive the points. We should have ranked up AFTER completing that one challenge, however we did not. Megan said everyone is being awarded the points but that’s not the case.

If you haven't already I'd log a support ticket. They will be able to look into the back end of things and see what happened.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

2 minutes ago, TheFBD said:

Of course we choose to do it. We also choose to play warframe. It's not mandatory. We choose to play games at all, it's not mandatory to play games. We choose to have a pc/console. Not mandatory either. We choose to live in an apartment, not mandatory, could live in a trailer or a car.

The point is that we all here play warframe, we want to play warframe. And everyone here is so invested and interested in this game that we don't just "consume" this game while it's "hot" and then drop it when the next AAA title appears. We created accounts on this forum and we discuss it. And we care more about warframe than seeing it as "just another game in my library".

And because there are so many people in this and the many other threads on the forums (and way more on reddit) who are very unhappy with nightwave and the direction the game is going, it should make it obvious to DE that they made a bad choice. For everyone here pointing out the flaws of nightwave there are 50 players out there who don't speak up and just leave/uninstall the game. And that's what we - the players who are invested and interested in warframe - want to prevent.

Because we like warframe too much to see it go down the drain. So if most people would simply "choose" not to do it, there might be no warframe anymore fairly soon.

How many people? a few hundred? maybe at best a couple of thousand? 90% of the player base is not here complaining. I'm only here because I am not at hoem so I cannot play the game. 
 

Tell you what, make up a spreadsheet of all individual people here complaining, and all the people on Reddit complaining. Make sure they are not the same people. And then present it as the total number of people complaining. I'm sure you will find that as a total percentage of the player base the number of people complaining is insignificant. This thread hasn't even topped the Old UI mouse change thread for the number of unique respondents.

There's this thing with Human behaviour. If people like something they generally don't go out of their way to tell people unless asked. if people don't like something or there is a problem, then they will go out of their way to complain. The thing is the majority of players are off playing games. Not here complaining.

[SweetJackal]

Just going to drop my feedback in now that I have had enough time with it to form a solid opinion.

In short, Nightwave is a good replacement for the alert system, just that it's first time at bat is really poor.  The issue comes from distribution of rewards, cred, and the challenges themselves.

 

For rewards and cred, the issue is simple.  Wolf Cred is given out in large chunks deep into the path and the weekly limits on standing earned means those that would have watched the alert system as I once did will now take a while to get what they are after.  Though in practice this us better than RNG decided fates the perception of that is much different as it shifts from "maybe today" to "I know I have to engage things for 3 weeks."  Not my issue as the alert system lost any hook it had for me long ago.

 

Making more tiers with more frequent rank ups or providing Cred at every tier would do a lot to combat this problem.  If Cred rewards are increased in doing so then make the more premium Cred Gear more costly to compensate.  It is counter productive to have this system replace the alert system to provide better and more consistent alert rewards to newer players when you need to prestige your rank to start rolling in Cred when the challenges to do that require content to be unlocked that said players will not have.

 

Second issue is more complex, being two fold.  The challenges themselves are the problem for a few major reasons.  Endurance runs like 60 minute survival and 40 wave defense are not a problem however:

Two endurance challenges in the same manner are too much, as when the conditions are compatible but different it pushes player to combine them.  Only 1 Elite Weekly should be endurance.

Challenges need to consider time gates on the content they require.  Ayatans was an example of this, so was the challenge requiring several sorties.  Challenges should be requiring only one to two hours of play over one to two days, not a 1 hour commitment for nearly every day of the week.  Elite challenges should test the ability of the player and squad, not their ability to log in every day.

Have the challenges be more varied and creative, to impose limits on the player as to how they can finish a mission and use the nightwave system to reward that.  Same vein, doing what you do normally just with friends isn't a challenge, it is just tedium.

Finally, seriously consider not having challenges expire.  Part of the issue with some of the major challenges is that they are gated behind having certain content unlocked behind time gates tied to MR, and you have less than a week to catch up if you want to do them.  Having all challenges not expire, or atleast Elite challenges not expire, will provide time for players to catch up and be able to properly engage in the Nightwave system in a manner that will not feel like busywork or lead to burnout.

 

Hope this helps

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

11 hours ago, TibetiVeszedelem said:

This proposed system is extremely similar to our existing one, but here's what changes:

True, I can't seen an actual difference between most of what you proposed and what we actually have:

11 hours ago, TibetiVeszedelem said:

Focusing on weekly check marks instead of the overall progression means players will be able to easily identify if they've done enough for that week. People with little time and few opportunities to play will have a clear goal ( get that check mark for this week! ), and likely won't feel like they're forced to do absolutely everything. People with a lot of free time on their hands can't "overachieve" ( because you can only get 1 check mark per week ), meaning they won't be able to set unrealistic expectations for the rest, causing everyone under their level to panic. However, while these "would-be-overachievers" won't be able to flex on regular people by progressing at a much faster pace, they should still be happy because as I mentioned, each and every task immediately yields "Wolf Creds" ( or "Nightweave currency" from now on) upon completion.

We already do get check marks, when the challenges get marked as done. Since we can't see where others are in their progression the only thing we need to focus on is our own progression. 

Quote

-> Upon realizing that they won't have to do every single thing on the list of tasks ( "I already go the mark for this week, I can chill out for now" ), players will surely appreciate this newfound agency. As weeks go by and they get to experiment for themselves, the community will come to see Nightweave as less of a malicious whip and more of a benevolent motivator. As the public perception of Nightweave shifts, players will likely come together, discussing and evaluating the set of tasks for the given week, resulting in "difficulty lists" on forums or "recommended tasks for this week" videos on youtube - providing further guidelines for those that need it the most.

Some of us have repeatedly shown the basic math that we only need 30k out of a possible 43k per week. It hasn't sunk in. This is more than doable even for most of the people complaining vehemently about having to add friends, or not liking a given challenge. 

Quote

-> As with any temporary event, there will be those who join in too late. With this system in place, latecomers will be able to clearly tell what they can and can't get.

The ranks and current standing are shown, it's not rocket science to say "I can reasonably expect to make make ( choose between 1 2 3 4)ranks a week, so I will be at (projected weekly ranks x #ofweeksremaining) when it ends."

Quote

Because progression is now measured by weekly check marks, a few changes should be implemented:

 

-> An encounter like the Saturn fugitives can't function exactly the same as it does now, since there is no use for the "standing" they provide ( as direct overall progression abolished ). They instead should award something universally useful ( for example, endo ) or the temporary Nightweave currency.

-> The Nightweave shop will have to be rebalanced as well, as the amount of a currency a player may have on them can vary wildly ( players that only do the bare minimum vs players that do everything ). Nailing this new shop is crucial, as it can't be too lucrative ( else players will start feeling like they're missing out ) or too disposable ( otherwise players that put in the effort will leave feeling unrewarded ).

 

I feel like the shop could do with a rebalance, but I also think that tossing in 2 "cred only weeks" between seasons would have the desired effect. The newbs get creds at an accelerated rate, and the older heads can take a breather. 

Quote

 

-> Because players are no longer expected to do every single task and this fact is communicated clearly by the Developers, the tasks themselves are allowed much more freedom as well. There should be a diverse set of (relatively) creative tasks available every week, so that players may experience all sorts of content and don't burn out.

We aren't expected to do every single task. This fact was communicated to us by the developers before the event even began. The tasks have been highly diverse, so much so that people have complained about having to leave their comfortable ruts. 

 

Really, almost everything you suggest as improvements is stuff that was built in from the start. The rebalancing of the creds and costs is probably the only thing would be different. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Serpentsouls said:

Even through I like the idea of Night Wave the current format of challenges being time limited makes me feel very pressured to rush doing it or worry will I menage to complete everything I need in a week.

Maybe if the challenges lasted the entire season and we could do it at our own pace it would remove that pressure feeling and make it more enjoyable.

And what happens when we get to week 9, and there are over 100 challenges left undone, and not enough time to do them all? How much more self-induced reeing would we be flooded with? 

That change would probably just encourage procrastination, and all that goes with it. 

 

[gabuchan]

22 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Because it is impossible to go in recruiting chat, type "lfg friends to do defense 40 waves, for Nora"? Especially as the vast majority of people who are going to play this week will probably want to get it done too? 

Naw. Yes, it's easy to recruit people in chat to complete this challenge, but I just don't want my friends list to be littered with players who I'll add one time for this challenge, then completely forget after the challenge is over. I have no problem going 40 waves in a defense tile, I just think it's unfair to players who don't want to add players just for the sake of their one time use, or to players who want to play exclusively solo.

[exophase00]

Long post ahead

Disclaimer: I am not sure if someone else make a comment about this, being over 50 pages on this thread. Also forgive my bad phrasing, I am not good at writing essays, but hopefully i got my point across.

This issue does not affect players who have been playing the game before nightwave but will affect those who started playing the game after nightwave. 

Currently, you are only able to get a total of 300 wolf cred from the reward tiers (provided you reach rather high in the reward tiers). However, each of the weapons require 50 wolf creds to obtain (and there are a total of 9 weapons that can be offered in the cred offerings). That means that you need a total of 450 wolf creds to obtain all the weapons from cred offerings, which is not possible from just this nightwave series.

The thing is, you need to get standing to level up in the reward tiers. which means you have to either complete acts, or capture fugitives to get standing. The problem is, most of this challenges may prove challenging for newer players, much less elite challenges. And fugitives can go from giving too little standing per capture of being too difficult for beginners to take down. As a result, newer players will not be able to get a lot of standing, and thus wolf cred (provided the series does not last for a long time). Sure, some of these acts my not be designed for newer players, but not completing acts = no standing.

This would not be a problem if the weapons obtained through the cred offerings were usable, but they are not (at least in my opinion). By the time players get enough wolf creds, they would already have better weapons than those offered by cred offerings. Besides, there are more important/better rewards to obtain from cred offerings like orokin reactors/catalysts, nitain extract or even Vauban components. Having these weapons being this expensive acts as a hindrance newer players to get mastery rank. Sure, there is enough weapons for a newer player to go through their mastery rank, but having easy access  to these weapons will allow players to advance through the mastery rank, thus unlocking better weapons, thus being able to complete nightwave acts. 

I also want to say the same about the aura mod available in the cred offerings, but at least their costs is justified in my opinion.

I want to state that I am not a new player, so what I say may not be 100% true (not having played as a "new" player after nightwave launched). But it is mind boggling for me to see that these weapons are so difficult to obtain. I feel that something that is part of the core gameplay should be easily accessible to newer players, and not restrict them. I remember back during alerts these weapons were rather easy to obtain, the only restricting factor being the node for the alert not being available. I also want to state that I am coming from a new solo player's perspective,and I am aware that most of the acts can be done with the help of someone more experienced.

With that being said, I want to offer my solution. Remove the weapons for cred offerings and place it in the market instead. As i see it is not worth having to spend a rare resource such as wolf creds on weapons that are being used as a mastery rank fodder. 

TL,DR : Weapons in cred offerings is a hindrance to new player progression and should be made easier to obtain. 

[(PSN)Androscoggin]

 

First. Let me say nightwave missions are awesome. The rewards are unique and give players something to work toward. More importantly they give much needed structure, so we don't just log in and walk around our orbiter for 20 minutes trying to figure out what to do next. 

I like everything about nightwave missions, *except* reward tier structure. 

Wolf credits are a huge boon, and really important to new players, but they are seperated by 3 or 4 tiers between them. 

It makes a lot of sense for higher level players not getting swamped with credits that they have no use for. 

The issue is, casual players have to work much harder to get to these rewards. Taking my wife as an example, she needed 6 nitian extract for saryn prime, but it took her literal weeks to grind up to the point where she got a single batch of wolf credits. 

Now, of her 50 credits she just played for a week's to get, she needs to use 30 to get one warframe complete. It leaves too little for her to buy reactors, catalysts, or aura mods. To say nothing of needing more extracts. 

My proposal is this. The first reward should be wolf credits. As should each odd number. 

Things that don't fit in the reward list from the expansion, should be available for a markup of credits, with cosmetics like the glyph and sigil, being moved to the middle tier. 

This would be a huge boon for noew players, removing an unintentional wall that I don't think too many people realize has been created, while having little to no effect on what high tier players are trying to accomplish. 

I want to reiterate, I love nightwave and think it is a hugely positive addition to the game. 

It just needs small tweaks so as not to be yet another barrier to entry for new players. 

I'm a relativity new player at a few hundred hours, I've been playing since August. I'm slowly getting my wife into the game, and she has about a dozen hours and is just getting to jupiter (just for frame of reference for where I'm coming from)
 

[(NSW)Hatemachine]

Nightflush/wave is fine, I dont mind the system as a whole, except the name, never liked it, always sounds like something sewage workers gotta worry about.

Its the hamfisted, THIS IS IT! approach DE took with it & wholly eliminated a functional part of the game, neither is a good single option, but both would be glorious!

No reason NOT to keep the alerts & NOT make NW the be all end all for these things, NW should be the kinda thing that HAS the hardcore & story kinda challenges that people can engage in no matter their level, but if you cant run at top tier what the hell makes you think you should get that amazing reward, which NW rewards REALLY suck, the ONLY thing worthwhile, was the new nidus helm & Corrosive projection which was only obtainable in the first week which meant if you didnt do ALL the challenges, you couldnt get enough pointage to get the ONE Aura thats been of any value or difficult or costly to acquire, otherwise, all mods were common as hell, easy to find & VERY misleading to new players spending wolf creds on something they could find or buy easy & to instead use those wolf creds for items they will actually need & are hard to find.

As is new players are locked out in certain situations, the vagueness of these challenges can be costly & when youve ground your teeth for 48 minutes to get that 5k reward, get dropped due to HOST MIGRATION or get trolled by somone or even an accident reloading near the aircans, Instant fury.

Seriously theres a system in place that would work GREAT to bring alerts back & make them AN ALERT! a random action that requires immediate action or to be ignored.

Use the cetus bounties system, anyone whos run PoE has gotten those random ALERTS about something happening near them that they can choose to do or not.

Size this up to the star chart & make these alerts show up based on where you are at that time, your in the mercury system you see alerts pop for mercury, see one that a team is needed for, go recruit, Alert is up for 5 minutes at a time to keep them cycling around often enough to be viable for quick self gratification, rewards & quick PuGs.

Could even involve the factions! Let steel meridian ships send out a distress call around mars, Arbiterssend a message as new loa or whatever & set an ambush for one or more players, an exterminate becomes survival.

Either way, theres was no reason to do away with the system, just find a new interesting way to make it work, my biggest issue has always been a lack of a beating, pulsating heart in this game, nothing ties to anything else, factions only pop up when you decide to do stuff for them or they hate you & send things to be ripped to meaty strips, gotta say it makes the kill x number eximus challenge ALOT easier.

These alerts could REALLY be something, imagine being lured by another distress beacon, turns into again an ambush, Mr Anyos face drops down & calmly describes that your ship is locked down, all escape points are sealed, INCLUDING the airlock to escape & in about 5 minutes a razorback or Corpus Capital ship is going to blow the whole ship to scrap, now the team needs to BREAKOUT! sorry scorpions song took over my brain, anyway, it becomes a gather & survival mission for explosives to blow a hole in the ship to escape, then HELLO Archwing & mr Anyo gets a front seat to 4 pissed off Tenno with big guns, big swords & a hankering for corpus jerky.

In any case, as it is, we will never see that, because THAT would be an alert, which is no more except gifts from Space mom, which I would add make NO sense why shes even involved in them anymore but without spoiling the why.

The phrase don't throw the Baby out with the Bathwater comes to mind.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

1 hour ago, exophase00 said:

Long post ahead

Disclaimer: I am not sure if someone else make a comment about this, being over 50 pages on this thread. Also forgive my bad phrasing, I am not good at writing essays, but hopefully i got my point across.

This issue does not affect players who have been playing the game before nightwave but will affect those who started playing the game after nightwave. 

Currently, you are only able to get a total of 300 wolf cred from the reward tiers (provided you reach rather high in the reward tiers). However, each of the weapons require 50 wolf creds to obtain (and there are a total of 9 weapons that can be offered in the cred offerings). That means that you need a total of 450 wolf creds to obtain all the weapons from cred offerings, which is not possible from just this nightwave series.

The thing is, you need to get standing to level up in the reward tiers. which means you have to either complete acts, or capture fugitives to get standing. The problem is, most of this challenges may prove challenging for newer players, much less elite challenges. And fugitives can go from giving too little standing per capture of being too difficult for beginners to take down. As a result, newer players will not be able to get a lot of standing, and thus wolf cred (provided the series does not last for a long time). Sure, some of these acts my not be designed for newer players, but not completing acts = no standing.

This would not be a problem if the weapons obtained through the cred offerings were usable, but they are not (at least in my opinion). By the time players get enough wolf creds, they would already have better weapons than those offered by cred offerings. Besides, there are more important/better rewards to obtain from cred offerings like orokin reactors/catalysts, nitain extract or even Vauban components. Having these weapons being this expensive acts as a hindrance newer players to get mastery rank. Sure, there is enough weapons for a newer player to go through their mastery rank, but having easy access  to these weapons will allow players to advance through the mastery rank, thus unlocking better weapons, thus being able to complete nightwave acts. 

I also want to say the same about the aura mod available in the cred offerings, but at least their costs is justified in my opinion.

I want to state that I am not a new player, so what I say may not be 100% true (not having played as a "new" player after nightwave launched). But it is mind boggling for me to see that these weapons are so difficult to obtain. I feel that something that is part of the core gameplay should be easily accessible to newer players, and not restrict them. I remember back during alerts these weapons were rather easy to obtain, the only restricting factor being the node for the alert not being available. I also want to state that I am coming from a new solo player's perspective,and I am aware that most of the acts can be done with the help of someone more experienced.

With that being said, I want to offer my solution. Remove the weapons for cred offerings and place it in the market instead. As i see it is not worth having to spend a rare resource such as wolf creds on weapons that are being used as a mastery rank fodder. 

TL,DR : Weapons in cred offerings is a hindrance to new player progression and should be made easier to obtain. 

The majority of the Elite Activities are not meant for new players, and they won't need to do them. Most of the standard activities can be done by just progressing through the star chart.
 

Just to be clear did you get all of the Alert only weapons, Aura Mods, Vauban, And all the Nitain you needed for Vauban prime and all the other things you needed it for in the first 3 months of play? This IS easier because they are no longer locked out from alerts due to star Chart progression and no longer need Taxis to alerts they are not powerful enough to handle.

Most of us just used those weapons as MR fodder, So will new players.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

47 minutes ago, (PS4)Androscoggin said:

The issue is, casual players have to work much harder to get to these rewards. Taking my wife as an example, she needed 6 nitian extract for saryn prime, but it took her literal weeks to grind up to the point where she got a single batch of wolf credits. 

Now, of her 50 credits she just played for a week's to get, she needs to use 30 to get one warframe complete. It leaves too little for her to buy reactors, catalysts, or aura mods. To say nothing of needing more extracts. 

My proposal is this. The first reward should be wolf credits. As should each odd number. 

4

It took your wife weeks to get to the first 50 Wolf creds at rank 3. It took her weeks to earn 30k Standing? Your proposal is that Casuals who play for 1 hour 1 day a week should get everything right now? Under the old alert system with how little your wife plays it is unlikely she would've had 3 Nitain at the end of 3 weeks based on the long hours between alerts.
 

I remember a time when we needed Argon for half the stuff, and Prime Parts, which were both only found in the Void. We needed Void Tower keys to do Void missions. You had to farm the keys from Defense, Survival and later Extraction. And then you needed the right Tier Void key for the right mission type to have a shot at getting the parts you wanted. And people are complaining about Night Wave?
 
Nightwave is easier, even for a casual player like your wife because she is no longer tied to the random nature of alerts. She can complete the activities in her time when she is on and actually get the nitain at her own speed rather than missing out on the alert because she missed one hours earlier, and there won't be another until hours after she logs off.

[Knight_Ex]

Honestly I like Nightwave, one of your goals was to bring old players back to the game and you succeeded, like half my old clan returned to warframe as a result, we have a week to do these challenges so it isn't at all difficult, really my only complaint is I would like more challenge and variety in the elite challenges, maybe something like restricting a frame to a certain match type or something to that degree.  All and all though Im happy with how the system is progressing.

 

Oh and since people are throwing around MR like its some sort of badge that makes what they are saying appear more relevant, Im a MR 24, Ive been playing WF for going on 5 1/2 years now, and in regards to Nightwave I stand by what I said, some more challenging elite challenges would be nice, but I'm honestly not hating anything and its giving me another reason to login.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Knight_Ex

[gabuchan]

On 2019-03-26 at 3:22 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

-Snip- 

This is hardly just a complaint though. We're just trying to provide feedback. This challenge is a common issue with a lot of players. The "do ___ with friends" challenges have largely been unpopular and not well-received. I find Nightwave fun for the most part, but these challenges (and the silly inventory checks) need to be changed the next time around. 

[gabuchan]

Just now, moostar95 said:

 and no more forma missions. I kind of want to save a few. 

Amen. Though it was a little hilarious that you get 3x forma as a reward from Nightwave, only to have to spend them again for the challenge next week lol

[Swamarian]

I like that Nightwave pushes people to try new stuff. If it wasn't for Nightwave, I probably wouldn't be doing Sanctuary Onslaught or sorties. That said, I have issues.

The tier rewards have a whole lot more sigils and cosmetics that I'll probably never use. On the other hand the cash shop's got a ton of stuff that's really useful, and less so. Given that helmet purchases come from the same pool as nitain and reactors/catalysts, how many helmets do you really expect people to buy? Instead of yet another sigil, how about having a couple of level rewards be

Choice of helmet

Choice of (nitain/argon/other material)

Choice of Aura mod?

This gives a variety to the rewards, and gives newer players a bit of flexibility.

Another issue is that since NW's the only way to get certain things now, people feel the need to do it, rather than what they want to do. I've had weeks where I focused on the plains, or Valis, or clearing planets. Now, if you're not doing Nightwave, that hurts you for the rest of the iteration, which is up to 2 1/2 months. That takes something which should be fun, and makes it a chore.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Swamarian

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 minutes ago, gabuchan said:

This is hardly just a complaint though. We're just trying to provide feedback. This challenge is a common issue with a lot of players. The "do ___ with friends" challenges have largely been unpopular and not well-received. I find Nightwave fun for the most part, but these challenges (and the silly inventory checks) need to be changed the next time around. 

So you are now claiming that your feedback is not a complaint about the "with friends or clanmates" challenges. 

That's great, because it means that since there aren't any complaints about it, it doesn't need to be changed. 👍

Glad that we're all on the same page now regarding the spurious complaints... I mean "not complaints" that a highly vocal minority has been pretending is an issue. ☺️

 

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

10 minutes ago, Swamarian said:

The tier rewards have a whole lot more sigils and cosmetics that I'll probably never use.

This is intentional.  If it was a bunch of weapons and stuff, people would be complaining about time-locked grindy to obtain weapons.

As far as aura mods go, yeah that could work, but only those, and only if they're still in the shop.

Edited March 26, 2019 by (PS4)feuerhund99

[NezuHimeSama]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So you are now claiming that your feedback is not a complaint about the "with friends or clanmates" challenges. 

That's great, because it means that since there aren't any complaints about it, it doesn't need to be changed. 👍

Glad that we're all on the same page now regarding the spurious complaints... I mean "not complaints" that a highly vocal minority has been pretending is an issue. ☺️

 

I hope they aren't paying you for your service, since all you're really doing is encouraging people to find another game to play.

If it weren't a problem, there wouldn't be a 58 page topic of complaints about the system and all of it's glaring problems, as well as dozens of new topics every day discussing better alternatives. but, I guess we're just not "hardcore" enough to understand that and online job that only pays in e-peen is just the best, and definitely not a trap for people with fragile egos to pat themselves on the back and blame everyone else for "not getting it".

[TibetiVeszedelem]

3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

"True, I can't seen an actual difference between most of what you proposed and what we actually have..."

"...Really, almost everything you suggest as improvements is stuff that was built in from the start. The rebalancing of the creds and costs is probably the only thing would be different. "

As I originally stated ( " I believe you should try to communicate this important detail a little better by changing how Nightweave presents itself" ), this is more of a subtle shift that I feel could go a long way, instead of a sweeping change you seem to think I intended to encourge with my post.

 

Seriously, it's mostly a UI change, if I'm being honest - one weekly "OVERALL" check mark instead of a couple bars of 10k reputation. Undeniably much easier to track and understand, wouldn't you agree?

 

I also firmly believe you're overestimating the "clarity" of this current system to the average user. Even after being told repeatedly that they don't have to do and worry about every single Nora tasks, a sizeable portion of the playerbase still seems to believe otherwise and are making a fuss about it... and while yes, you can't see directly see someone else's Nightweave progression in-game, as more and more people start to talk about and test things like the New Augments mods ( posts come out, videos go up ), you can't help but feel afraid that you're missing out, no doubt causing one to push forward and play "catch up" - even thought arguably it's unnecessary to do so, as they would reach that tier of rewards in due time. Still, they don't know that - and that's exactly the issue my proposed minor changes would help alleviate.

Edited March 26, 2019 by TibetiVeszedelem

[gabuchan]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So you are now claiming that your feedback is not a complaint about the "with friends or clanmates" challenges. 

That's great, because it means that since there aren't any complaints about it, it doesn't need to be changed. 👍

Glad that we're all on the same page now regarding the spurious complaints... I mean "not complaints" that a highly vocal minority has been pretending is an issue. ☺️

 

 

Okay first, I never stated my feedback wasn't a complaint. It was just that you were very dismissive of my issue with the challenge.
"This is hardly just a complaint though." <-- still obviously a complaint, just emphasizing that it isn't minor. 

Also, there isn't really any need for passive aggressiveness dude. We're all here to voice out what we think can be improved upon. This is DE's 1st run and we're all just doing our part providing feedback.

[exophase00]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Most of us just used those weapons as MR fodder, So will new players.

That is the whole point, why make new players spend wolf creds, a rare resource, for a MR fodder that they will only use once/twice, when they can spend it on things like reactors/catalysts, which is more useful in terms of progression.

[xTerrain]

On 2019-03-26 at 3:22 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

-Snip-

The problem with this stance is that it defeats the purpose of both the challenge in question, and the friends list itself.  If this is the playerbase's reaction to these challenges, then there is NO REASON that they shouldn't just be 'complete the challenge in a group.'  It accomplishes the same task, without having to be loopholed around by temporary false-friends.  That's even less effort from the players, for the exact same result, and using infrastructure that's already in the game (namely public matchmaking), and without making a mockery of the friends list.

But there's also the question of why these 'with friends' acts are Elite weeklies, since a player that could do the same content solo, or even with a group of random people they don't know, and have no synergy with would be a more 'elite' player than one who requires a known teammate that they can and have worked together with, by definition.  'With a friend/clanmate' missions should not be in the Elite acts.  Just the normal daily/weekly ones.  And to fit with those, they shouldn't be as specific as they have been.  "Complete a mission with a friend or clanmate" would be an appropriate daily, and 3 missions could be a valid weekly.  This would make them much less valuable, and so easier to see missing, even among completionist players, and would make them more open to newer players actually looking to make friends through the game.

 

On 2019-03-25 at 10:35 PM, Shaderox said:

While its nice that alerts as a whole are gone, it would be nice to have some random mission appear now and then that's completely optional and just award some standing or extra wolf creds (or later equivalent), just like how prisoners shows up now and then in regular missions.

I'm sorry, but...how is it nice that Alerts are gone?  As of now, with Nightwave giving what were Alert-exlusive rewards, continued Alerts would have been completely optional small bonuses that might give Wolf Cred items (as opposed to the Creds themselves, but I can see a Cred drop added to their tables, to give a small bonus and make synergy with the Nightwave system).  The only reason I've seen that people didn't like them was that they were 'pay to sleep,' which wouldn't be any problem now that there are alternative methods to get all their rewards, rather than just most.  I'm not sure why you're claiming that their absence is a good thing, especially since you've gone on to try and re-implement a similar system.  I don't mean to be rude, but...is there some reason for this?

[(PSN)Androscoggin]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

It took your wife weeks to get to the first 50 Wolf creds at rank 3. It took her weeks to earn 30k Standing? Your proposal is that Casuals who play for 1 hour 1 day a week should get everything right now? Under the old alert system with how little your wife plays it is unlikely she would've had 3 Nitain at the end of 3 weeks based on the long hours between alerts.
 

I remember a time when we needed Argon for half the stuff, and Prime Parts, which were both only found in the Void. We needed Void Tower keys to do Void missions. You had to farm the keys from Defense, Survival and later Extraction. And then you needed the right Tier Void key for the right mission type to have a shot at getting the parts you wanted. And people are complaining about Night Wave?
 
Nightwave is easier, even for a casual player like your wife because she is no longer tied to the random nature of alerts. She can complete the activities in her time when she is on and actually get the nitain at her own speed rather than missing out on the alert because she missed one hours earlier, and there won't be another until hours after she logs off.

I agree. Nightwave is great and much more effecient for casual players. 

 

But its current setup is still an unnecessary hurdle for casual players, and changing it would have noeffect for more hardcore players

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I hope they aren't paying you for your service, since all you're really doing is encouraging people to find another game to play.

If it weren't a problem, there wouldn't be a 58 page topic of complaints about the system and all of it's glaring problems, as well as dozens of new topics every day discussing better alternatives. but, I guess we're just not "hardcore" enough to understand that and online job that only pays in e-peen is just the best, and definitely not a trap for people with fragile egos to pat themselves on the back and blame everyone else for "not getting it".

I keep hoping that at some point you'll actually make a point, instead of just always resorting to deflection and really sill ad hominem attack. 

If you didn't want to participate in, how did you put, "the online job that only pays in e-peen" you would have just shrugged and said "yeah I'm not interested in doing that" the exact same way many of us have done for any given challenge. I've personally skipped a bunch of challenges because I just didn't feel like it. The same way I just haven't completed the Glast gambit and Octavia's anthem to get 2 of the very powerful frames, because I just don't want to do those things right now. 

Do you think that I'm going to complain about it if something comes along that requires either of those two? Not going to be happening. 

 

The same way that I skipped Profit Taker and went to the sanctuary to grind focus instead. It's not because I am in a solo clan, and would have to work ohhh soooo hard to hop in recruiting and type out a "lfg need to do profit taker for Nora let's be friends.... without the benefits". It's because I already had enough standing for the week and other priorities that I wanted to deal with instead. 

There's nobody forcing me to do anything I am not willing to do. The system is designed that way.

To put it in a way that you might begin to understand :

There's no problem here other than people feeling entitled to, and whining about points for their epeen that they are unwilling to earn on the game's terms. 

1 hour ago, gabuchan said:

 

Okay first, I never stated my feedback wasn't a complaint. It was just that you were very dismissive of my issue with the challenge.
"This is hardly just a complaint though." <-- still obviously a complaint, just emphasizing that it isn't minor. 

Also, there isn't really any need for passive aggressiveness dude. We're all here to voice out what we think can be improved upon. This is DE's 1st run and we're all just doing our part providing feedback.

So am I. The difference is that I am not trying to convince others that they don't have every right to respond. 

And yes I'm very dismissive of the issue you raised because I see it as a complete non-issue for the reasons given before. 

Your complaint boils down to the fact that you don't like the condition set for the challenge. Not that it can't be done, or the game doesn't allow you to do what is being requested. Just that you, and the vocal minority like you, don't want to do it.

That's not really an issue with the game. 

20 minutes ago, xTerrain said:

The problem with this stance is that it defeats the purpose of both the challenge in question, and the friends list itself.  If this is the playerbase's reaction to these challenges, then there is NO REASON that they shouldn't just be 'complete the challenge in a group.'  It accomplishes the same task, without having to be loopholed around by temporary false-friends.  That's even less effort from the players, for the exact same result, and using infrastructure that's already in the game (namely public matchmaking), and without making a mockery of the friends list.

Funny thing, every single person who goes on a friends list in game or in life, is temporary. 

Making friends doesn't have to be temporary, but it can be if that's what you need. It's a perfect solution to the fact that some people are trying to pretend that the multiplayer game they play doesn't have others in it. The ones making a mockery of the system are the few pretending that it is way too difficult to get people to agree to help you out, and insisting that there is no way to complete the challenges. Especially in a game that has encouraged us for a very long time, to join others in clans for mutual benefit. 

There's nothing wrong with the challenge conditions that they're complaining about. 

28 minutes ago, xTerrain said:

But there's also the question of why these 'with friends' acts are Elite weeklies, since a player that could do the same content solo, or even with a group of random people they don't know, and have no synergy with would be a more 'elite' player than one who requires a known teammate that they can and have worked together with, by definition.  'With a friend/clanmate' missions should not be in the Elite acts.  Just the normal daily/weekly ones.  And to fit with those, they shouldn't be as specific as they have been.  "Complete a mission with a friend or clanmate" would be an appropriate daily, and 3 missions could be a valid weekly.  This would make them much less valuable, and so easier to see missing, even among completionist players, and would make them more open to newer players actually looking to make friends through the game.

Hour long survivals, profit taker, those are elite challenges. And they're elite challenges that are easier for groups. And for groups that preform via recruiting /assembling a team in advance so everyone can be on the same page. (Because of the whole these people may not synergise properly/know what's expected of them.) It's reasonable to put the condition there rather than "kill 150 enemies using radiation with a friend".

Hell, last night I did the eximus stronghold Sortie and got a total of 4 kills towards my total, because there was a banshee nuking everything. And I was better off than the other 2 guys in the squad. 

Let the newbs have the easier tasks with fewer conditions. They need the standing.