Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[xTerrain]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Hour long survivals, profit taker, those are elite challenges. And they're elite challenges that are easier for groups. And for groups that preform via recruiting /assembling a team in advance so everyone can be on the same page. (Because of the whole these people may not synergise properly/know what's expected of them.) It's reasonable to put the condition there rather than "kill 150 enemies using radiation with a friend". 

Hell, last night I did the eximus stronghold Sortie and got a total of 4 kills towards my total, because there was a banshee nuking everything. And I was better off than the other 2 guys in the squad. 

Let the newbs have the easier tasks with fewer conditions. They need the standing.

This is true, and these are challenges that people might be more likely to bring friends along in the first place, but that ultimately makes the 'with a friend/clanmate' part of the challenge even less meaningful.  Would these examples have been any less 'elite' without it?  Apparently so, given the other example of a 'with friends' challenge: doing a sortie, of which we've also seen a variant without the friend/clanmate condition, and it was not an Elite Act, which implies that going with a friend, even when it's not necessary, somehow makes you a better and more capable player.  You've said that there's nothing wrong with these challenges, but the added friend/clanmate condition is just unneeded.  It adds no challenge to the mission in question, and only serves to keep people from completing the challenge, for no reason beyond the wording of the challenge.

Additionally, you've misunderstood me.  I didn't suggest adding the condition to pre-existing dailies/weeklies, such as the 'kill with radiation' Act, rather adding a different daily/weekly that is simply 'complete a mission with a friend or clanmate.'  Not 'a spy mission,' not 'using radiation damage,' just clear a mission.  Just the one condition, well in line with other daily/weekly challenges.  This would incentivize the socialization that the devs apparently want, without completely throwing less sociable players, or those with less-than-active friend under the bus.  I would find this a reasonable and much better-balanced compromise for all involved.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 hours ago, TibetiVeszedelem said:

Seriously, it's mostly a UI change, if I'm being honest - one weekly "OVERALL" check mark instead of a couple bars of 10k reputation. Undeniably much easier to track and understand, wouldn't you agree?

Uh, I just check to see what rank I'm on. If I have gone up by at least 3 for the week, or if I am at (# of weeks x 3) I'm golden. 

Kind of straightforward. 

That's probably why I'm unable to see how the subtle shift to a system that seems to be the exact same thing would be any better than what we currently have. 

3 hours ago, TibetiVeszedelem said:

I also firmly believe you're overestimating the "clarity" of this current system to the average user. Even after being told repeatedly that they don't have to do and worry about every single Nora tasks, a sizeable portion of the playerbase still seems to believe otherwise and are making a fuss about it... and while yes, you can't see directly see someone else's Nightweave progression in-game, as more and more people start to talk about and test things like the New Augments mods ( posts come out, videos go up ), you can't help but feel afraid that you're missing out, no doubt causing one to push forward and play "catch up" - even thought arguably it's unnecessary to do so, as they would reach that tier of rewards in due time. Still, they don't know that - and that's exactly the issue my proposed minor changes would help alleviate.

Yes. That is possible, there definitely are people who can't seem to grasp the simple math even after all this time and the whole host of posts explaining why 300k is less than 430k. 

But that also strongly suggests that they're going to be unable to grasp (or believe) any system. 

And, the whole "people might be afraid that they're missing out if they see someone who has something they don't" also doesn't make much sense because once we get to rank 30 by week 10, we all have the same things anyway. 

Won't make any difference if someone has the Grakata mod the day before I get mine. Because what they have or don't won't affect me in the least. Sort of like how it's not bothering me if you get something a couple of weeks before I do because I am on console. It's unlikely that the company will fold in such a short time, so again it's not a problem that a reasonable person is likely to have. 

 

[Agamemnicon]

I like the idea of Nightwave, and some of the acts have gently pushed me in directions I hadn't yet explored in the game. Nora is cool too:)

Having said that, my main complaint is that too many of the acts force you to do something that you don't normally do in the game.  Alerts were simple: see something you want, jump into the alert, complete the mission, and get it right away.  Nightwave really complicates things.  At the very least I'd like to see most of the acts that focus on fishing and mining (and ESPECIALLY those acts which require high syndicate standing like Profit Taker) to be significantly reduced in favor of activities that are more in line with an average player's daily warframe activity.  The old mission affinity bonuses are a good start. (get X headshots, etc).  Why not tone down the open area grinding-type acts in favor of more daily requirements that focus on regular starchart playstyle?  Assassination requirements would be fine too, especially for those players who haven't farmed all the warframe parts from the starchart.

Concerns about wolf creds: 
The only logical choice, to me, for spending wolf credits is potatoes and Nitain. I'm really glad I got the weapons (jaw sword etc) and most of the helmets prior to the phasing out of Alerts.  Think about the investment in time and energy.  BEFORE Nightwave - do one easy mission and get your helmet/weapon bp/Nitain.  WITH Nightwave - complete a set of weekly and daily challenges, some of which are out of your reach and/or downright tedious and then agonizingly use your precious wolf creds to buy.. a jaw sword. 🤔

Everything besides potatoes and nitain should be dirt cheap, wolf creds wise (Vauban and aura mods can stay the same).

 

 

[LuckyCharm]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Uh, I just check to see what rank I'm on. If I have gone up by at least 3 for the week, or if I am at (# of weeks x 3) I'm golden. 

Kind of straightforward. 

That's probably why I'm unable to see how the subtle shift to a system that seems to be the exact same thing would be any better than what we currently have. 

Yes. That is possible, there definitely are people who can't seem to grasp the simple math even after all this time and the whole host of posts explaining why 300k is less than 430k. 

But that also strongly suggests that they're going to be unable to grasp (or believe) any system. 

And, the whole "people might be afraid that they're missing out if they see someone who has something they don't" also doesn't make much sense because once we get to rank 30 by week 10, we all have the same things anyway. 

Won't make any difference if someone has the Grakata mod the day before I get mine. Because what they have or don't won't affect me in the least. Sort of like how it's not bothering me if you get something a couple of weeks before I do because I am on console. It's unlikely that the company will fold in such a short time, so again it's not a problem that a reasonable person is likely to have. 

 

Im one of those simple math people. I havent saved a tally on how many missions ive completed and what theyre worth, nor is there any way to go back and check. So its simply easier to just do all the missions till you hit 30 and then not have to worry. 

Sure itd be a whole lot easier if all the missions gave the same standing, but they dont, so 2x elite missions are worth the same as one 3x non elites and 1x daily, so its more viable to miss a lot of dailys, a few non elites, or less elites. What im saying is some sorta progress tracker would be helpful for people like me who just do the things without doing math as i go

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, xTerrain said:

This is true, and these are challenges that people might be more likely to bring friends along in the first place, but that ultimately makes the 'with a friend/clanmate' part of the challenge even less meaningful.  Would these examples have been any less 'elite' without it?  Apparently so, given the other example of a 'with friends' challenge: doing a sortie, of which we've also seen a variant without the friend/clanmate condition, and it was not an Elite Act, which implies that going with a friend, even when it's not necessary, somehow makes you a better and more capable player.  You've said that there's nothing wrong with these challenges, but the added friend/clanmate condition is just unneeded.  It adds no challenge to the mission in question, and only serves to keep people from completing the challenge, for no reason beyond the wording of the challenge.

So again if it adds no challenge and applies to the challenges that we are most likely to do with friends or clanmates anyway, we're being rewarded for doing what people do when they play the game. 

This is acceptable by any standards. It is not a legitimate problem. 

The only people who are having an issue, are the ones who are choosing to make it an issue, despite having all of the tools at their disposal to complete it and simply choosing not to. 

1 hour ago, xTerrain said:

Additionally, you've misunderstood me.  I didn't suggest adding the condition to pre-existing dailies/weeklies, such as the 'kill with radiation' Act, rather adding a different daily/weekly that is simply 'complete a mission with a friend or clanmate.'  Not 'a spy mission,' not 'using radiation damage,' just clear a mission.  Just the one condition, well in line with other daily/weekly challenges.  This would incentivize the socialization that the devs apparently want, without completely throwing less sociable players, or those with less-than-active friend under the bus.  I would find this a reasonable and much better-balanced compromise for all involved.

I'm ok with them adding that as a daily. I still don't think that they need to remove it from the other levels. As you said, it doesn't make it more difficult, and you agreed that so far they're the ones that we're most likely to preform groups for anyway. 

It's not like they've put it on a spy sortie or something. 

[Agamemnicon]

8 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Now then. I’m going to get back to wishing for the following Elite weekly: “Kill 2,000 Enemies With Operator Amps And Powers.”

I would love this!

It's precisely the kind of challenge Nightwave needs (although it does prevent those who haven't done the relevant quests from participating).

More to the point, I totally agree that the type of acts that require you to -for example- fill ayatan statues or use forma HAVE to go away.   Even the gilding one..  What if I've already gilded exactly what I wanted to?  What if I'm waiting until I get xyz before I gild it?  Silly requirement.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

37 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Im one of those simple math people. I havent saved a tally on how many missions ive completed and what theyre worth, nor is there any way to go back and check. So its simply easier to just do all the missions till you hit 30 and then not have to worry. 

Sure itd be a whole lot easier if all the missions gave the same standing, but they dont, so 2x elite missions are worth the same as one 3x non elites and 1x daily, so its more viable to miss a lot of dailys, a few non elites, or less elites. What im saying is some sorta progress tracker would be helpful for people like me who just do the things without doing math as i go

We have one. It's the tiers themselves. 

Let's look at why the other system proposed isn't great, if you missed a week, and completed the next, you've a checkmark for the current week, but you're really 30k standing behind for the event. By looking at your current rank, you will be able to tell that you should at least be at rank 6 on week 2, so you would be able to tell that since you're only on rank 3 you have some catching up to do so you need to try to get more standing. 

So it's back to the simple math again 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30. Is this not the progress tracker that you are asking for? 

 

[(XBOX)Tornicade]

On 2019-03-24 at 11:38 AM, NinjaFramer said:

But it looks like the players that are kinda mean to the newbies have everything, did everything and know everything. Not fair, not fair at all. The game is seriously overwhelming to a new player. Do they just want to keep it for themselves? I'm still MR3. The grind is painful. Just a little bit too slow to level up and I'm putting a lot of time and effort into the game.

If I'm going to ride along with an experienced player or players that can easily knock out the tasks in Nightwave, then what's the purpose of Nightwave? It would be easy, according to them. I'd just doing my best and having to be revived all the time. But hey, at least I would have the prize.

The novice player can do the easy ones in Nightwave but that's usually just 4 or 5 and maybe a weekly. Then with the daily, that really isn't daily (I know for a fact as I have been playing every day) there's only a refreshing 1 or 2 that a new player can do. 

Know this - if you start off with Excalibur, his first, second and melee weapon, it's going to be a slow climb. That is unless you buy plat. You can buy your way through the game with plat. At first almost every mod you get is flawed..... For a while. No Auras. You get 50 plat but that's a bad number. 52 would be right. 12 for weapon slots the other 40 for whatever floats your boat. But 50 means I have to buy more.

So, I've heard you can sell mods and prime parts. Anyone up for some flawed mods or odd and end prime parts? You don't get very many relics for quite a while and most are lith. The first group. Yes, there are some that you can use to get good prime parts but you have to make them more valuable and you can't get very many void traces to use for that. 

So you've played through a few planets and got Rhino and Mag. You don't have the resources to build them. A grind, sometimes frustrating but mostly fun. Then what. You've got slots for extra weapons and Warframe but what's next. Sweet, a new sniper rifle or shotgun. Where are you going to put them? And that shinny new frame? What to do? Oh, that's right, buy plat. Oh yeah, sell the weapons and make room. Start all over again with bad mods. You don't get good ones till later in the game. Don't say farm for good prime parts and good mods. Don't you dare! You can't. You're new. You're restricted. And I mean you just can't, not yet. Try starting over and play it solo with no plat other than what you start with.

So, let's say you push forward and try to move further. Prepare to die, a lot. You're not going anywhere with a simple weapon and bad mods. Use a catalyst and a reactor, that's what that 50 plat is for. Hmm, I can put more broken mods on but oops, no they're duplicates. Darn. Use some Endo and rank them up! Still, they're broken. Endo, Endo, where can I get that? Well, it falls from some enemies and you can dissolve extra mods for Endo. Oh, there's the statues. They're worth a bunch of Endo. If only you find some. You're lucky if you do. The low levels? I found one and that was great but I used up the Endo on bad mods.

If you're wanting to keep any of the other Warframes or weapons, you're going to have to buy plat. Some weapons require you to have a couple of different weapons in order to build them. To do that, you'll need to buy plat. You'll need more slots. These weapons become available to you later, after you've got that cool hex or something you'll need to keep, so, more slots means you're going to have to buy plat.

You'll want to save Rhino, Loki, and many of the other Warframes in order to play certain nodes. Yes, new slots so buy plat.

You're not going to be able to sell mods and good prime sets for quite a while. So you're going to have to buy plat for your new shinny Warframes and weapons.

Unless....... You ride along with experienced players. Then you'll get good stuff. Chances are you'll want to keep most of the goodies. You'll have to buy plat though to keep your stuff. You could watch your P's and Q's and be very thrifty. Just keep a few weapons and Warframes, selling off every one you get in order to get another. But if you don't keep ranking up new Warframes and weapons you'll never rank up. You'll be MR3,4,5 or wherever you decided to keep what you got, forever. So, you're going to have to buy plat. More slots.

So, no. It's not "Pay to Win." The game has no ending. But it is mostly "Pay to Play." I've heard too many people say you can play the game without spending a dime. While that's true, they certainly have. So........ Yes you can play the game without spending a penny. But prepare to climb very, very, very slow and don't expect any of the cool colors and stuff you see on every other Warframe. And Warframes? You'll only be able to keep a couple so be prepared to sell them.

Or

You can ride along with the veterans and get what you need with no problems. Level up like crazy really fast. Get good prime weapons and Warframes. But, then, what's the purpose of Nightwave? It's too hard for newbies and too easy for veterans. It's a very nice addition, not a replacement.

Supposedly Nightwave replaced Alerts. Alerts served a purpose and was a big help for a new player. Veteran players already have more than enough of what was offered in the Alerts so of course it wasn't a big deal for them to lose it. And they bang their head against the wall and cry out "It's easy!" Uh, nope. It's not. Unless we ride along with you vets.

So, Nightwave. It's pretty cool. I can't do much but hey, I'll hitch a ride if I can then I'll just bust it out!... But a replacement for Alerts???? It's not.

i absolutely love Warframe. And Nightwave is cool but it brings up that question. Veteran players call new players cry babies. They defend the decision to remove Alerts and bring in Nightwave all while cussing out the new players, blasting them and calling them names.

How is that helping? New players just want help. Get a grip veteran. Try to understand where newbies are coming from and reach out to them. Help them understand the game and how to play it. Don't just dismiss them and project your feelings on them. Be nice. Be respectful. Be helpful. Try to be diplomatic, not condemning.

Wow....this was not my experience at.....first....mk1 weapons level pretty smoothly....2nd pug squading is natural part of the game.3rd the only plat you need to spend is 25 of the starter plat to get a reactor..4th the first 6 quest has everything you need to get started..5th a new player experience is slated for implmentation into the game...6th low level alert type missions exist in syndicates. 7th all mk1 weapons can be scrapped for slots once you upgrade..8th quality weapon upgrades can be had as low as mr 2.for credits. 9th plenty of complete researched clans that will let people join just to access bps. 10th nightwave daily alerts are alerts anyone can do...thats up to 7 k rank a week for a tier system that only requires 10k a tier...finding a couple 1ks and 3k to do is by far not a stretch...

 

You got bad info when you started warframe that put you focused on stuff that doesnt  matter .nightwave isnt a replacement for alerts its an solid upgrade with a few kinks to smooth out. one of the problems is vets telling new players they need adifferent warframe every time you run into a  hitch[like when i was stuck on the first 3 for 3 req spy mission i was told to get this frame or that frame when all i needed was to get better with my frame

 

 

{

Edited March 26, 2019 by (XB1)Tornicade

[khazlol]

i think it would be better with challenges that would span the duration of the event, just split up the reward a bit.

(example kill 10000 eximus units, but every 500 reward some rep)

[CoreXCZ]

The issue I have with Nightwave is that it made game more boring and static. Yes, you have tasks to complete but how many? There's a weekly reset, and one task per day, that's not how I imagine a game where there's always something to do. First thing first, you have to wait for weekly reset, that alone made Warframe more boring, Alert system never had this issue cause it always gave out something to do, be it a mere mission with credit reward or giving you something nicer (cosmetic thing or weapon BP).

There's also a thing about what feeling both Nightwave and Alert system are giving to you. Nightwave is literally a task system which you do just like that, there's no real meaning felt behind it, no real importance. On the other hand Alert system gave you feeling like Grineer/Corpus/Infested or Corrupted are always up to something, be it that some vital data got stored in faction's datavaults (spy missions), some important person appeared (capture mission), some potential sabotage target became exposed enough (sabotage mission), etc. Doing Alerts felt like you're actually striking the enemy and damaging their efforts. Nightwave just rewards you for doing feats which feel unimportant and which you could do even before, just without getting reward.

It's just that with Alert system, game felt more lively. Factions were actually always in center of Alert system, acting as enemies. Nightwave gives a crap about who the enemy is most of the time cause tasks are "kill X enemies" or "kill X enemies with Y elemental damage". Nightwave is a nice system, no doubt about it, but it robbed game of it's life, it's constant feeling that Origin system around you, a player, is constantly in move. Sortie and Invasions give out this feeling of life well, same goes for Syndicate missions which change daily.

So I would love if Nightwave and Alert system could both work within game, as separate systems cause right now, game feels boring and static to me and I feel DE looked only on concept and technical side but no longer on how will the replacement of Alert system affect the feeling people get from game.

Edited March 27, 2019 by CoreXCZ

[NezuHimeSama]

6 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I keep hoping that at some point you'll actually make a point, instead of just always resorting to deflection and really sill ad hominem attack. 

If you didn't want to participate in, how did you put, "the online job that only pays in e-peen" you would have just shrugged and said "yeah I'm not interested in doing that" the exact same way many of us have done for any given challenge. I've personally skipped a bunch of challenges because I just didn't feel like it. The same way I just haven't completed the Glast gambit and Octavia's anthem to get 2 of the very powerful frames, because I just don't want to do those things right now. 

Do you think that I'm going to complain about it if something comes along that requires either of those two? Not going to be happening. 

 

The same way that I skipped Profit Taker and went to the sanctuary to grind focus instead. It's not because I am in a solo clan, and would have to work ohhh soooo hard to hop in recruiting and type out a "lfg need to do profit taker for Nora let's be friends.... without the benefits". It's because I already had enough standing for the week and other priorities that I wanted to deal with instead. 

There's nobody forcing me to do anything I am not willing to do. The system is designed that way.

To put it in a way that you might begin to understand :

There's no problem here other than people feeling entitled to, and whining about points for their epeen that they are unwilling to earn on the game's terms. 

So am I. The difference is that I am not trying to convince others that they don't have every right to respond. 

And yes I'm very dismissive of the issue you raised because I see it as a complete non-issue for the reasons given before. 

Your complaint boils down to the fact that you don't like the condition set for the challenge. Not that it can't be done, or the game doesn't allow you to do what is being requested. Just that you, and the vocal minority like you, don't want to do it.

That's not really an issue with the game. 

Funny thing, every single person who goes on a friends list in game or in life, is temporary. 

Making friends doesn't have to be temporary, but it can be if that's what you need. It's a perfect solution to the fact that some people are trying to pretend that the multiplayer game they play doesn't have others in it. The ones making a mockery of the system are the few pretending that it is way too difficult to get people to agree to help you out, and insisting that there is no way to complete the challenges. Especially in a game that has encouraged us for a very long time, to join others in clans for mutual benefit. 

There's nothing wrong with the challenge conditions that they're complaining about. 

Hour long survivals, profit taker, those are elite challenges. And they're elite challenges that are easier for groups. And for groups that preform via recruiting /assembling a team in advance so everyone can be on the same page. (Because of the whole these people may not synergise properly/know what's expected of them.) It's reasonable to put the condition there rather than "kill 150 enemies using radiation with a friend".

Hell, last night I did the eximus stronghold Sortie and got a total of 4 kills towards my total, because there was a banshee nuking everything. And I was better off than the other 2 guys in the squad. 

Let the newbs have the easier tasks with fewer conditions. They need the standing. 

 

pot kettle ect.

I don't think I've seen you make a valid point this whole topic. All you seem to want to do is derail any kind of legitimate discussion on why Nightwave is bad so you can pat yourself on the back. I mean S#&$, you even listed the biggest problem there without batting an eye; "right now", something you continue to ignore. You don't get the option to just put nightwave off until you feel like it, but anyone recognizing that as a problem is just rong and the rongest for "not getting it", as well as all the people complaining about the time investment, barriers to entry, and constantly dangling it in front of every player's face as "the thing to do right now or you'll miss out!"

[(NSW)Hatemachine]

How about this, keep the "attack" or "defense" posts to private chats huh? seriously, once it turns into im wrong, no you are, we ALL lose face & good ideas, solutions, suggestions & so forth get buried under a mire of self indulgent e peen measuring.

Simple solution, bring alerts back, was & IS STILL a viable function as per the fact that plains of Grindilon STILL has an alert system, granted no one really does it because the rewards are paltry & most end up bugging out.

But why cant it just be scaled up to star charts & effect individual systems? whats wrong with using BOTH systems? then the challenges could get wacky as hell, but it wouldnt be the be all end all.

everyone profits, no one is denied & those hoops become something for new players to learn & travel the systems until theyre able to start taking on the big fish challenges, then doing a 60 minute survival, becomes a freakin achievement not a self imposed necessity because.

Anyway, gl folks & yes I know the futility in requesting civility from Da Interwebz, but a goomba like me is always gonna try anyway.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

pot kettle ect.

I don't think I've seen you make a valid point this whole topic. All you seem to want to do is derail any kind of legitimate discussion on why Nightwave is bad so you can pat yourself on the back. I mean S#&$, you even listed the biggest problem there without batting an eye; "right now", something you continue to ignore. You don't get the option to just put nightwave off until you feel like it, but anyone recognizing that as a problem is just rong and the rongest for "not getting it", as well as all the people complaining about the time investment, barriers to entry, and constantly dangling it in front of every player's face as "the thing to do right now or you'll miss out!"

Already answered this one:

8 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I keep hoping that at some point you'll actually make a point, instead of just always resorting to deflection and really sill ad hominem attack. 

See? Well no, maybe not, because you claim to have not seen quite a lot of the thread at this moment. 

And not being able to endlessly procrastinate is not a flaw. As I pointed out pages ago, if you're demanding that nightwave can just become endless, that would mean that there aren't any subsequent seasons. Many of us who are opting in are doing so because we want that umbral forma.

And you know what's better than getting one umbral forma for doing stuff we would normally do in the game anyway (because believe it or not, many people aren't shirking from these challenges)? Getting two umbral formas, one this season and one the next if they put it there again. But that can't happen if there's only one season because a few folks like you afraid of not being able to complete it on time if you don't have all eternity to get it done. 

Now it's probably ok for you, because you already explained that you are disappointed that you just can't buy yourself these umbral formas. You insisted that your not being able to buy it would destroy the game, didn't you? So you would benefit from forcing DE to find some other way to make it available like in the market, but not everyone supports your desire to be able to pay2win. 

And look around, there are people more than 66% done. What week are we in? So we know that the challenges are doable for people playing this game instead of paying to win. 

On the other hand there are many people who are just doing the minimum to get to rank 30. Those of us on that path are more than able to pick and choose what challenges to accept. We can skip any that we don't particularly want to do. I usually have a couple unfinished at the end of the week and dgaf because I don't need to do them. 

And then there are people who have flat out opted not to bother, because the rewards for the tiers just don't interest them. 

 

Nobody in any of those groups needs to fear missing out. So, what group do you belong to that makes you so very afraid of not being able to keep up with the Joneses? 

[NezuHimeSama]

Of course, don't actually respond to anything and just keep on making excuses and pretending that it has anything to do with "pay2win" or whatever you have cooked up in your head, usually as some excuse to justify your own toxicity.

Like when I brought up how perfectly Warframe worked for casual play because you could invest time or money instead of both, and then you pretended that must mean I only ever spend money and never invest time. Nope, never mind the 3.5k mission hours, or the fact that I've never bought a warframe from the market, or really anything but cosmetics, and the Kavat thing for the lulz. Your default stance is to assume that everyone else is just the rongest rong because of some crap you made up in your head.

 

Do you contribute anything to this discussion, or do you just derail the entire thread, for ~60 pages now, with "no u" over and over? Because I have not seen you make a single legitimate point of any kind in this entire topic. Just a whole lot of "your concerns are unfounded because I don't personally feel that way about it".

 

Also, again, for someone so toxic, you sure can't seem to handle criticism.

Edited March 27, 2019 by NezuHimeSama

[gabuchan]

9 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So am I. The difference is that I am not trying to convince others that they don't have every right to respond. 

And yes I'm very dismissive of the issue you raised because I see it as a complete non-issue for the reasons given before. 

Your complaint boils down to the fact that you don't like the condition set for the challenge. Not that it can't be done, or the game doesn't allow you to do what is being requested. Just that you, and the vocal minority like you, don't want to do it.

That's not really an issue with the game. 

The fact is that the condition is completely unnecessary. If we were to follow your advice and recruit random players as temporary friends for these challenges, isn't that essentially achieving the same result as queuing up a public mission too? It's painfully obvious that this is inefficient. Really what is the benefit of keeping the friend condition? Does that make the challenge harder? What do you have to lose by removing the condition? Nothing really. The people who like doing endurance runs are unaffected because the challenge remains the same. People who enjoyed doing these missions with friends aren't affected either because you can still do that if you want to, and people who like playing solo can play the game how they want. The game does have a solo queuing option for a reason. Removing the condition doesn't diminish the challenge at all either since the only thing it's gonna do is to make the mission easier to access, not finish, so the challenge remains the same. I really don't understand why you're defending a condition that would see more players benefit by it being removed.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

14 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I hope they aren't paying you for your service, since all you're really doing is encouraging people to find another game to play.

If it weren't a problem, there wouldn't be a 58 page topic of complaints about the system and all of it's glaring problems, as well as dozens of new topics every day discussing better alternatives. but, I guess we're just not "hardcore" enough to understand that and online job that only pays in e-peen is just the best, and definitely not a trap for people with fragile egos to pat themselves on the back and blame everyone else for "not getting it".

4

I think we can safely say that 1/3rd of those posts are Guzmantt1977 and myself pointing out that people haven't done their maths and need to do their maths and then the complaints collapse under the maths, and another 1/3rd of those posts are people complaining about Guzmantt1977 and myself doing the math. And so it's really only 1/3rd of that number that are complaints. So maybe a 20 page thread.

Whoops! I did the maths again.

I agree with everyone about the Forma/ Scultpture/Gild/ Inventory check activities. they are not good. the rest is just playing the game so they are good.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

14 hours ago, exophase00 said:

That is the whole point, why make new players spend wolf creds, a rare resource, for a MR fodder that they will only use once/twice, when they can spend it on things like reactors/catalysts, which is more useful in terms of progression.

Then don't wait until you have all the good stuff, then when you have nothing else to buy, then buy them as MR fodder. There is always a choice.

[TheSkunkyMonk]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

I think we can safely say that 1/3rd of those posts are Guzmantt1977 and myself pointing out that people haven't done their maths and need to do their maths and then the complaints collapse under the maths, and another 1/3rd of those posts are people complaining about Guzmantt1977 and myself doing the math. And so it's really only 1/3rd of that number that are complaints. So maybe a 20 page thread.

Whoops! I did the maths again.

I agree with everyone about the Forma/ Scultpture/Gild/ Inventory check activities. they are not good. the rest is just playing the game so they are good.

I did the maths as well, Alerts = reward in no more than 10 minutes + can do multiple ones each day netting me Nitian Auras and Cosmetics

Nightwave 2-3weeks for 6 ranks and 50 cred = One Helmet.

 

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

11 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

Im one of those simple math people. I havent saved a tally on how many missions ive completed and what theyre worth, nor is there any way to go back and check. So its simply easier to just do all the missions till you hit 30 and then not have to worry. 

Sure itd be a whole lot easier if all the missions gave the same standing, but they dont, so 2x elite missions are worth the same as one 3x non elites and 1x daily, so its more viable to miss a lot of dailys, a few non elites, or less elites. What im saying is some sorta progress tracker would be helpful for people like me who just do the things without doing math as i go

There is a progress tracker it's at the top of the Night Wave activities table. it shows you what rank you are, what you have unlocked and how many ranks and rewards you have left. If that is too hard for you to follow, I don't think 1 big tick per week is going to help you.

[(NSW)Hatemachine]

Guess what, I'll enjoy this because its one of the few things I do well, your MATH note the no S in there btw, fail to take into simple account, WHAT these missions will be, the remaining hoops till this things end run could all be randomly generated to ALL involve being forced to do crap as the operator, or stealth becomes the next big hoopla, oh and lets add in the bugs im sure your MATH took into account right? im sure you MATH centric folks can calculate that & tell everyone its all good & not to worry, they fix that Index bug? any retroactive completions? Thats actually a question, just now thought about that.

Oh better yet, how about predicting how many PoE or fortuna missions people will have to try to do with Random disconnects, host migration bugs & so forth?

Math is useless when faced with unpredictability, if Math could predict anything, youd think we would have the weather down by now, same with medicine, we dont, we call it weather prediction & practicing medicine.

Chaos & Quantum physics/mechanics are as close as they could get so far & even they point to this rigid assumption as laughable.

So please, stop this bogus pill DE threw out to the public to try to smooth over the fact that this system is flawed while they gather information from our complaints & HOPEFULLY listen, because were all here because we LIKE THIS GAME & want to see it at its best & the simple fact this thread exists & hasnt been locked due to the self entitled argumentative children having buried numerous posts with actually productive feed back is frankly astounding, but shows maybe theres hope that this information will actually make it to the guys at DE.

[NezuHimeSama]

41 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

I think we can safely say that 1/3rd of those posts are Guzmantt1977 and myself pointing out that people haven't done their maths and need to do their maths and then the complaints collapse under the maths, and another 1/3rd of those posts are people complaining about Guzmantt1977 and myself doing the math. And so it's really only 1/3rd of that number that are complaints. So maybe a 20 page thread.

Whoops! I did the maths again.

I agree with everyone about the Forma/ Scultpture/Gild/ Inventory check activities. they are not good. the rest is just playing the game so they are good.

"doing the math" doesn't really solve the core design issue.

Also, no, 70% minimum participation rate for the rest of the game is not okay. That's way too much. It's like when people said TACOs are fine because "you can get them all done in less than an hour and it's not like you really need to do them every single day" and then everything got expensive because of course you have to do them every single day and it's a #*!%ing hour long chore before you can even start attempting to approach the idea of fun.

 

People not doing their maths is when people said atterax memestrike was too OP and game ruining, despite needing an at the time extremely rare mod, and not doing as much damage as most of the high tier explosives were doing anyway. This is an entirely different set of issues.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

1 minute ago, NezuHimeSama said:

"doing the math" doesn't really solve the core design issue.

Also, no, 70% minimum participation rate for the rest of the game is not okay. That's way too much. It's like when people said TACOs are fine because "you can get them all done in less than an hour and it's not like you really need to do them every single day" and then everything got expensive because of course you have to do them every single day and it's a #*!%ing hour long chore before you can even start attempting to approach the idea of fun.

 

People not doing their maths is when people said atterax memestrike was too OP and game ruining, despite needing an at the time extremely rare mod, and not doing as much damage as most of the high tier explosives were doing anyway. This is an entirely different set of issues.

Do the maths. When you actually add the numbers up with the exception of a few bad ideas for activities there is no problem with the core design,

 

Maths is important because if you did the Maths you would know you only need to do 60% of the activities at most. And fugitives will reduce the number of activities you need to do to even less.

And again, it is your choice to complete the activities or not. Given the majority of the activities are just do this mission several times and they can be done anywhere in any way, and are mostly a part of the everyday gameplay of Warframe. I have to ask if you enjoy Warframe, how are they chores?

 

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

23 minutes ago, (NSW)Hatemachine said:

Guess what, I'll enjoy this because its one of the few things I do well, your MATH note the no S in there btw, 

 

Wrong, it is maths. it is short for Mathematics. Math is 1. End of math. Maths is every number and every equation after and including 1.
 

I'm not an American. So I do not use the incorrect singular "math."

[NezuHimeSama]

32 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Do the maths. When you actually add the numbers up with the exception of a few bad ideas for activities there is no problem with the core design,

 

Maths is important because if you did the Maths you would know you only need to do 60% of the activities at most. And fugitives will reduce the number of activities you need to do to even less.

And again, it is your choice to complete the activities or not. Given the majority of the activities are just do this mission several times and they can be done anywhere in any way, and are mostly a part of the everyday gameplay of Warframe. I have to ask if you enjoy Warframe, how are they chores?

 

I see 60% a lot lately, but wasn't it 68% before? Those two numbers aren't the same.

It's your choice to do TACOs or not, but GFL if you don't.

It's a list of random activities you have to do to get your standing, regardless of if it's what you wanted to. People don't generally like being told what to do and how to do it in a game, and for good reason; it's a game.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

14 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I see 60% a lot lately, but wasn't it 68% before? Those two numbers aren't the same.

It's your choice to do TACOs or not, but GFL if you don't.

It's a list of random activities you have to do to get your standing, regardless of if it's what you wanted to. People don't generally like being told what to do and how to do it in a game, and for good reason; it's a game.

Well, you know, we did the math.

You don't like being told what to do and how to do it...


You play a game with set mission types and set rewards for those missions. Sorties are a set of 3 specific missions each day.

You can't do certain quests unless you have certain MR.

You can't use certain Weapons, unless you have certain MR.

You can't use certain Riven mods unless you have certain MR. Rivens have set rules on things you have to do to unlock them. Have you never unlocked a Riven?

You can't trade until you are MR2.

Specific elements are more effective against different enemies. 

I could go on and on with an almost endless list of ways this game tells you what to do and how to do it

Everything about this game is telling you what to do and how to do it. Why do you play? Do you just log in and sit in region chat for 6 hours?

Edited March 27, 2019 by (XB1)Tatakai no Kami