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[DE]Bear

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So you are now claiming that your feedback is not a complaint about the "with friends or clanmates" challenges. 

That's great, because it means that since there aren't any complaints about it, it doesn't need to be changed. 👍

Glad that we're all on the same page now regarding the spurious complaints... I mean "not complaints" that a highly vocal minority has been pretending is an issue. ☺️

 

I hope they aren't paying you for your service, since all you're really doing is encouraging people to find another game to play.

If it weren't a problem, there wouldn't be a 58 page topic of complaints about the system and all of it's glaring problems, as well as dozens of new topics every day discussing better alternatives. but, I guess we're just not "hardcore" enough to understand that and online job that only pays in e-peen is just the best, and definitely not a trap for people with fragile egos to pat themselves on the back and blame everyone else for "not getting it".

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3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

"True, I can't seen an actual difference between most of what you proposed and what we actually have..."

"...Really, almost everything you suggest as improvements is stuff that was built in from the start. The rebalancing of the creds and costs is probably the only thing would be different. "

As I originally stated ( " I believe you should try to communicate this important detail a little better by changing how Nightweave presents itself" ), this is more of a subtle shift that I feel could go a long way, instead of a sweeping change you seem to think I intended to encourge with my post.

 

Seriously, it's mostly a UI change, if I'm being honest - one weekly "OVERALL" check mark instead of a couple bars of 10k reputation. Undeniably much easier to track and understand, wouldn't you agree?

 

I also firmly believe you're overestimating the "clarity" of this current system to the average user. Even after being told repeatedly that they don't have to do and worry about every single Nora tasks, a sizeable portion of the playerbase still seems to believe otherwise and are making a fuss about it... and while yes, you can't see directly see someone else's Nightweave progression in-game, as more and more people start to talk about and test things like the New Augments mods ( posts come out, videos go up ), you can't help but feel afraid that you're missing out, no doubt causing one to push forward and play "catch up" - even thought arguably it's unnecessary to do so, as they would reach that tier of rewards in due time. Still, they don't know that - and that's exactly the issue my proposed minor changes would help alleviate.

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9 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So you are now claiming that your feedback is not a complaint about the "with friends or clanmates" challenges. 

That's great, because it means that since there aren't any complaints about it, it doesn't need to be changed. 👍

Glad that we're all on the same page now regarding the spurious complaints... I mean "not complaints" that a highly vocal minority has been pretending is an issue. ☺️

 

 

Okay first, I never stated my feedback wasn't a complaint. It was just that you were very dismissive of my issue with the challenge.
"This is hardly just a complaint though." <-- still obviously a complaint, just emphasizing that it isn't minor. 

Also, there isn't really any need for passive aggressiveness dude. We're all here to voice out what we think can be improved upon. This is DE's 1st run and we're all just doing our part providing feedback.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Most of us just used those weapons as MR fodder, So will new players.

That is the whole point, why make new players spend wolf creds, a rare resource, for a MR fodder that they will only use once/twice, when they can spend it on things like reactors/catalysts, which is more useful in terms of progression.

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On 2019-03-26 at 3:22 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

-Snip-

The problem with this stance is that it defeats the purpose of both the challenge in question, and the friends list itself.  If this is the playerbase's reaction to these challenges, then there is NO REASON that they shouldn't just be 'complete the challenge in a group.'  It accomplishes the same task, without having to be loopholed around by temporary false-friends.  That's even less effort from the players, for the exact same result, and using infrastructure that's already in the game (namely public matchmaking), and without making a mockery of the friends list.

But there's also the question of why these 'with friends' acts are Elite weeklies, since a player that could do the same content solo, or even with a group of random people they don't know, and have no synergy with would be a more 'elite' player than one who requires a known teammate that they can and have worked together with, by definition.  'With a friend/clanmate' missions should not be in the Elite acts.  Just the normal daily/weekly ones.  And to fit with those, they shouldn't be as specific as they have been.  "Complete a mission with a friend or clanmate" would be an appropriate daily, and 3 missions could be a valid weekly.  This would make them much less valuable, and so easier to see missing, even among completionist players, and would make them more open to newer players actually looking to make friends through the game.

 

On 2019-03-25 at 10:35 PM, Shaderox said:

While its nice that alerts as a whole are gone, it would be nice to have some random mission appear now and then that's completely optional and just award some standing or extra wolf creds (or later equivalent), just like how prisoners shows up now and then in regular missions.

I'm sorry, but...how is it nice that Alerts are gone?  As of now, with Nightwave giving what were Alert-exlusive rewards, continued Alerts would have been completely optional small bonuses that might give Wolf Cred items (as opposed to the Creds themselves, but I can see a Cred drop added to their tables, to give a small bonus and make synergy with the Nightwave system).  The only reason I've seen that people didn't like them was that they were 'pay to sleep,' which wouldn't be any problem now that there are alternative methods to get all their rewards, rather than just most.  I'm not sure why you're claiming that their absence is a good thing, especially since you've gone on to try and re-implement a similar system.  I don't mean to be rude, but...is there some reason for this?

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2 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

It took your wife weeks to get to the first 50 Wolf creds at rank 3. It took her weeks to earn 30k Standing? Your proposal is that Casuals who play for 1 hour 1 day a week should get everything right now? Under the old alert system with how little your wife plays it is unlikely she would've had 3 Nitain at the end of 3 weeks based on the long hours between alerts.
 

I remember a time when we needed Argon for half the stuff, and Prime Parts, which were both only found in the Void. We needed Void Tower keys to do Void missions. You had to farm the keys from Defense, Survival and later Extraction. And then you needed the right Tier Void key for the right mission type to have a shot at getting the parts you wanted. And people are complaining about Night Wave?
 
Nightwave is easier, even for a casual player like your wife because she is no longer tied to the random nature of alerts. She can complete the activities in her time when she is on and actually get the nitain at her own speed rather than missing out on the alert because she missed one hours earlier, and there won't be another until hours after she logs off.

I agree. Nightwave is great and much more effecient for casual players. 

 

But its current setup is still an unnecessary hurdle for casual players, and changing it would have noeffect for more hardcore players

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1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I hope they aren't paying you for your service, since all you're really doing is encouraging people to find another game to play.

If it weren't a problem, there wouldn't be a 58 page topic of complaints about the system and all of it's glaring problems, as well as dozens of new topics every day discussing better alternatives. but, I guess we're just not "hardcore" enough to understand that and online job that only pays in e-peen is just the best, and definitely not a trap for people with fragile egos to pat themselves on the back and blame everyone else for "not getting it".

I keep hoping that at some point you'll actually make a point, instead of just always resorting to deflection and really sill ad hominem attack. 

If you didn't want to participate in, how did you put, "the online job that only pays in e-peen" you would have just shrugged and said "yeah I'm not interested in doing that" the exact same way many of us have done for any given challenge. I've personally skipped a bunch of challenges because I just didn't feel like it. The same way I just haven't completed the Glast gambit and Octavia's anthem to get 2 of the very powerful frames, because I just don't want to do those things right now. 

Do you think that I'm going to complain about it if something comes along that requires either of those two? Not going to be happening. 

 

The same way that I skipped Profit Taker and went to the sanctuary to grind focus instead. It's not because I am in a solo clan, and would have to work ohhh soooo hard to hop in recruiting and type out a "lfg need to do profit taker for Nora let's be friends.... without the benefits". It's because I already had enough standing for the week and other priorities that I wanted to deal with instead. 

There's nobody forcing me to do anything I am not willing to do. The system is designed that way.

To put it in a way that you might begin to understand :

There's no problem here other than people feeling entitled to, and whining about points for their epeen that they are unwilling to earn on the game's terms. 

1 hour ago, gabuchan said:

 

Okay first, I never stated my feedback wasn't a complaint. It was just that you were very dismissive of my issue with the challenge.
"This is hardly just a complaint though." <-- still obviously a complaint, just emphasizing that it isn't minor. 

Also, there isn't really any need for passive aggressiveness dude. We're all here to voice out what we think can be improved upon. This is DE's 1st run and we're all just doing our part providing feedback.

So am I. The difference is that I am not trying to convince others that they don't have every right to respond. 

And yes I'm very dismissive of the issue you raised because I see it as a complete non-issue for the reasons given before. 

Your complaint boils down to the fact that you don't like the condition set for the challenge. Not that it can't be done, or the game doesn't allow you to do what is being requested. Just that you, and the vocal minority like you, don't want to do it.

That's not really an issue with the game. 

20 minutes ago, xTerrain said:

The problem with this stance is that it defeats the purpose of both the challenge in question, and the friends list itself.  If this is the playerbase's reaction to these challenges, then there is NO REASON that they shouldn't just be 'complete the challenge in a group.'  It accomplishes the same task, without having to be loopholed around by temporary false-friends.  That's even less effort from the players, for the exact same result, and using infrastructure that's already in the game (namely public matchmaking), and without making a mockery of the friends list.

Funny thing, every single person who goes on a friends list in game or in life, is temporary. 

Making friends doesn't have to be temporary, but it can be if that's what you need. It's a perfect solution to the fact that some people are trying to pretend that the multiplayer game they play doesn't have others in it. The ones making a mockery of the system are the few pretending that it is way too difficult to get people to agree to help you out, and insisting that there is no way to complete the challenges. Especially in a game that has encouraged us for a very long time, to join others in clans for mutual benefit. 

There's nothing wrong with the challenge conditions that they're complaining about. 

28 minutes ago, xTerrain said:

But there's also the question of why these 'with friends' acts are Elite weeklies, since a player that could do the same content solo, or even with a group of random people they don't know, and have no synergy with would be a more 'elite' player than one who requires a known teammate that they can and have worked together with, by definition.  'With a friend/clanmate' missions should not be in the Elite acts.  Just the normal daily/weekly ones.  And to fit with those, they shouldn't be as specific as they have been.  "Complete a mission with a friend or clanmate" would be an appropriate daily, and 3 missions could be a valid weekly.  This would make them much less valuable, and so easier to see missing, even among completionist players, and would make them more open to newer players actually looking to make friends through the game.

Hour long survivals, profit taker, those are elite challenges. And they're elite challenges that are easier for groups. And for groups that preform via recruiting /assembling a team in advance so everyone can be on the same page. (Because of the whole these people may not synergise properly/know what's expected of them.) It's reasonable to put the condition there rather than "kill 150 enemies using radiation with a friend".

Hell, last night I did the eximus stronghold Sortie and got a total of 4 kills towards my total, because there was a banshee nuking everything. And I was better off than the other 2 guys in the squad. 

Let the newbs have the easier tasks with fewer conditions. They need the standing. 

 

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42 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Hour long survivals, profit taker, those are elite challenges. And they're elite challenges that are easier for groups. And for groups that preform via recruiting /assembling a team in advance so everyone can be on the same page. (Because of the whole these people may not synergise properly/know what's expected of them.) It's reasonable to put the condition there rather than "kill 150 enemies using radiation with a friend". 

Hell, last night I did the eximus stronghold Sortie and got a total of 4 kills towards my total, because there was a banshee nuking everything. And I was better off than the other 2 guys in the squad. 

Let the newbs have the easier tasks with fewer conditions. They need the standing.

This is true, and these are challenges that people might be more likely to bring friends along in the first place, but that ultimately makes the 'with a friend/clanmate' part of the challenge even less meaningful.  Would these examples have been any less 'elite' without it?  Apparently so, given the other example of a 'with friends' challenge: doing a sortie, of which we've also seen a variant without the friend/clanmate condition, and it was not an Elite Act, which implies that going with a friend, even when it's not necessary, somehow makes you a better and more capable player.  You've said that there's nothing wrong with these challenges, but the added friend/clanmate condition is just unneeded.  It adds no challenge to the mission in question, and only serves to keep people from completing the challenge, for no reason beyond the wording of the challenge.

Additionally, you've misunderstood me.  I didn't suggest adding the condition to pre-existing dailies/weeklies, such as the 'kill with radiation' Act, rather adding a different daily/weekly that is simply 'complete a mission with a friend or clanmate.'  Not 'a spy mission,' not 'using radiation damage,' just clear a mission.  Just the one condition, well in line with other daily/weekly challenges.  This would incentivize the socialization that the devs apparently want, without completely throwing less sociable players, or those with less-than-active friend under the bus.  I would find this a reasonable and much better-balanced compromise for all involved.

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3 hours ago, TibetiVeszedelem said:

Seriously, it's mostly a UI change, if I'm being honest - one weekly "OVERALL" check mark instead of a couple bars of 10k reputation. Undeniably much easier to track and understand, wouldn't you agree?

Uh, I just check to see what rank I'm on. If I have gone up by at least 3 for the week, or if I am at (# of weeks x 3) I'm golden. 

Kind of straightforward. 

That's probably why I'm unable to see how the subtle shift to a system that seems to be the exact same thing would be any better than what we currently have. 

3 hours ago, TibetiVeszedelem said:

I also firmly believe you're overestimating the "clarity" of this current system to the average user. Even after being told repeatedly that they don't have to do and worry about every single Nora tasks, a sizeable portion of the playerbase still seems to believe otherwise and are making a fuss about it... and while yes, you can't see directly see someone else's Nightweave progression in-game, as more and more people start to talk about and test things like the New Augments mods ( posts come out, videos go up ), you can't help but feel afraid that you're missing out, no doubt causing one to push forward and play "catch up" - even thought arguably it's unnecessary to do so, as they would reach that tier of rewards in due time. Still, they don't know that - and that's exactly the issue my proposed minor changes would help alleviate.

Yes. That is possible, there definitely are people who can't seem to grasp the simple math even after all this time and the whole host of posts explaining why 300k is less than 430k. 

But that also strongly suggests that they're going to be unable to grasp (or believe) any system. 

And, the whole "people might be afraid that they're missing out if they see someone who has something they don't" also doesn't make much sense because once we get to rank 30 by week 10, we all have the same things anyway. 

Won't make any difference if someone has the Grakata mod the day before I get mine. Because what they have or don't won't affect me in the least. Sort of like how it's not bothering me if you get something a couple of weeks before I do because I am on console. It's unlikely that the company will fold in such a short time, so again it's not a problem that a reasonable person is likely to have. 

 

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I like the idea of Nightwave, and some of the acts have gently pushed me in directions I hadn't yet explored in the game. Nora is cool too:)

Having said that, my main complaint is that too many of the acts force you to do something that you don't normally do in the game.  Alerts were simple: see something you want, jump into the alert, complete the mission, and get it right away.  Nightwave really complicates things.  At the very least I'd like to see most of the acts that focus on fishing and mining (and ESPECIALLY those acts which require high syndicate standing like Profit Taker) to be significantly reduced in favor of activities that are more in line with an average player's daily warframe activity.  The old mission affinity bonuses are a good start. (get X headshots, etc).  Why not tone down the open area grinding-type acts in favor of more daily requirements that focus on regular starchart playstyle?  Assassination requirements would be fine too, especially for those players who haven't farmed all the warframe parts from the starchart.

Concerns about wolf creds: 
The only logical choice, to me, for spending wolf credits is potatoes and Nitain. I'm really glad I got the weapons (jaw sword etc) and most of the helmets prior to the phasing out of Alerts.  Think about the investment in time and energy.  BEFORE Nightwave - do one easy mission and get your helmet/weapon bp/Nitain.  WITH Nightwave - complete a set of weekly and daily challenges, some of which are out of your reach and/or downright tedious and then agonizingly use your precious wolf creds to buy.. a jaw sword. 🤔

Everything besides potatoes and nitain should be dirt cheap, wolf creds wise (Vauban and aura mods can stay the same).

 

 

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18 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Uh, I just check to see what rank I'm on. If I have gone up by at least 3 for the week, or if I am at (# of weeks x 3) I'm golden. 

Kind of straightforward. 

That's probably why I'm unable to see how the subtle shift to a system that seems to be the exact same thing would be any better than what we currently have. 

Yes. That is possible, there definitely are people who can't seem to grasp the simple math even after all this time and the whole host of posts explaining why 300k is less than 430k. 

But that also strongly suggests that they're going to be unable to grasp (or believe) any system. 

And, the whole "people might be afraid that they're missing out if they see someone who has something they don't" also doesn't make much sense because once we get to rank 30 by week 10, we all have the same things anyway. 

Won't make any difference if someone has the Grakata mod the day before I get mine. Because what they have or don't won't affect me in the least. Sort of like how it's not bothering me if you get something a couple of weeks before I do because I am on console. It's unlikely that the company will fold in such a short time, so again it's not a problem that a reasonable person is likely to have. 

 

Im one of those simple math people. I havent saved a tally on how many missions ive completed and what theyre worth, nor is there any way to go back and check. So its simply easier to just do all the missions till you hit 30 and then not have to worry. 

Sure itd be a whole lot easier if all the missions gave the same standing, but they dont, so 2x elite missions are worth the same as one 3x non elites and 1x daily, so its more viable to miss a lot of dailys, a few non elites, or less elites. What im saying is some sorta progress tracker would be helpful for people like me who just do the things without doing math as i go

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1 hour ago, xTerrain said:

This is true, and these are challenges that people might be more likely to bring friends along in the first place, but that ultimately makes the 'with a friend/clanmate' part of the challenge even less meaningful.  Would these examples have been any less 'elite' without it?  Apparently so, given the other example of a 'with friends' challenge: doing a sortie, of which we've also seen a variant without the friend/clanmate condition, and it was not an Elite Act, which implies that going with a friend, even when it's not necessary, somehow makes you a better and more capable player.  You've said that there's nothing wrong with these challenges, but the added friend/clanmate condition is just unneeded.  It adds no challenge to the mission in question, and only serves to keep people from completing the challenge, for no reason beyond the wording of the challenge.

So again if it adds no challenge and applies to the challenges that we are most likely to do with friends or clanmates anyway, we're being rewarded for doing what people do when they play the game. 

This is acceptable by any standards. It is not a legitimate problem. 

The only people who are having an issue, are the ones who are choosing to make it an issue, despite having all of the tools at their disposal to complete it and simply choosing not to. 

1 hour ago, xTerrain said:

Additionally, you've misunderstood me.  I didn't suggest adding the condition to pre-existing dailies/weeklies, such as the 'kill with radiation' Act, rather adding a different daily/weekly that is simply 'complete a mission with a friend or clanmate.'  Not 'a spy mission,' not 'using radiation damage,' just clear a mission.  Just the one condition, well in line with other daily/weekly challenges.  This would incentivize the socialization that the devs apparently want, without completely throwing less sociable players, or those with less-than-active friend under the bus.  I would find this a reasonable and much better-balanced compromise for all involved.

I'm ok with them adding that as a daily. I still don't think that they need to remove it from the other levels. As you said, it doesn't make it more difficult, and you agreed that so far they're the ones that we're most likely to preform groups for anyway. 

It's not like they've put it on a spy sortie or something. 

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8 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Now then. I’m going to get back to wishing for the following Elite weekly: “Kill 2,000 Enemies With Operator Amps And Powers.”

I would love this!

It's precisely the kind of challenge Nightwave needs (although it does prevent those who haven't done the relevant quests from participating).

More to the point, I totally agree that the type of acts that require you to -for example- fill ayatan statues or use forma HAVE to go away.   Even the gilding one..  What if I've already gilded exactly what I wanted to?  What if I'm waiting until I get xyz before I gild it?  Silly requirement.

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37 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Im one of those simple math people. I havent saved a tally on how many missions ive completed and what theyre worth, nor is there any way to go back and check. So its simply easier to just do all the missions till you hit 30 and then not have to worry. 

Sure itd be a whole lot easier if all the missions gave the same standing, but they dont, so 2x elite missions are worth the same as one 3x non elites and 1x daily, so its more viable to miss a lot of dailys, a few non elites, or less elites. What im saying is some sorta progress tracker would be helpful for people like me who just do the things without doing math as i go

We have one. It's the tiers themselves. 

Let's look at why the other system proposed isn't great, if you missed a week, and completed the next, you've a checkmark for the current week, but you're really 30k standing behind for the event. By looking at your current rank, you will be able to tell that you should at least be at rank 6 on week 2, so you would be able to tell that since you're only on rank 3 you have some catching up to do so you need to try to get more standing. 

So it's back to the simple math again 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30. Is this not the progress tracker that you are asking for? 

 

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On 2019-03-24 at 11:38 AM, NinjaFramer said:

But it looks like the players that are kinda mean to the newbies have everything, did everything and know everything. Not fair, not fair at all. The game is seriously overwhelming to a new player. Do they just want to keep it for themselves? I'm still MR3. The grind is painful. Just a little bit too slow to level up and I'm putting a lot of time and effort into the game.

If I'm going to ride along with an experienced player or players that can easily knock out the tasks in Nightwave, then what's the purpose of Nightwave? It would be easy, according to them. I'd just doing my best and having to be revived all the time. But hey, at least I would have the prize.

The novice player can do the easy ones in Nightwave but that's usually just 4 or 5 and maybe a weekly. Then with the daily, that really isn't daily (I know for a fact as I have been playing every day) there's only a refreshing 1 or 2 that a new player can do. 

Know this - if you start off with Excalibur, his first, second and melee weapon, it's going to be a slow climb. That is unless you buy plat. You can buy your way through the game with plat. At first almost every mod you get is flawed..... For a while. No Auras. You get 50 plat but that's a bad number. 52 would be right. 12 for weapon slots the other 40 for whatever floats your boat. But 50 means I have to buy more.

So, I've heard you can sell mods and prime parts. Anyone up for some flawed mods or odd and end prime parts? You don't get very many relics for quite a while and most are lith. The first group. Yes, there are some that you can use to get good prime parts but you have to make them more valuable and you can't get very many void traces to use for that. 

So you've played through a few planets and got Rhino and Mag. You don't have the resources to build them. A grind, sometimes frustrating but mostly fun. Then what. You've got slots for extra weapons and Warframe but what's next. Sweet, a new sniper rifle or shotgun. Where are you going to put them? And that shinny new frame? What to do? Oh, that's right, buy plat. Oh yeah, sell the weapons and make room. Start all over again with bad mods. You don't get good ones till later in the game. Don't say farm for good prime parts and good mods. Don't you dare! You can't. You're new. You're restricted. And I mean you just can't, not yet. Try starting over and play it solo with no plat other than what you start with.

So, let's say you push forward and try to move further. Prepare to die, a lot. You're not going anywhere with a simple weapon and bad mods. Use a catalyst and a reactor, that's what that 50 plat is for. Hmm, I can put more broken mods on but oops, no they're duplicates. Darn. Use some Endo and rank them up! Still, they're broken. Endo, Endo, where can I get that? Well, it falls from some enemies and you can dissolve extra mods for Endo. Oh, there's the statues. They're worth a bunch of Endo. If only you find some. You're lucky if you do. The low levels? I found one and that was great but I used up the Endo on bad mods.

If you're wanting to keep any of the other Warframes or weapons, you're going to have to buy plat. Some weapons require you to have a couple of different weapons in order to build them. To do that, you'll need to buy plat. You'll need more slots. These weapons become available to you later, after you've got that cool hex or something you'll need to keep, so, more slots means you're going to have to buy plat.

You'll want to save Rhino, Loki, and many of the other Warframes in order to play certain nodes. Yes, new slots so buy plat.

You're not going to be able to sell mods and good prime sets for quite a while. So you're going to have to buy plat for your new shinny Warframes and weapons.

Unless....... You ride along with experienced players. Then you'll get good stuff. Chances are you'll want to keep most of the goodies. You'll have to buy plat though to keep your stuff. You could watch your P's and Q's and be very thrifty. Just keep a few weapons and Warframes, selling off every one you get in order to get another. But if you don't keep ranking up new Warframes and weapons you'll never rank up. You'll be MR3,4,5 or wherever you decided to keep what you got, forever. So, you're going to have to buy plat. More slots.

So, no. It's not "Pay to Win." The game has no ending. But it is mostly "Pay to Play." I've heard too many people say you can play the game without spending a dime. While that's true, they certainly have. So........ Yes you can play the game without spending a penny. But prepare to climb very, very, very slow and don't expect any of the cool colors and stuff you see on every other Warframe. And Warframes? You'll only be able to keep a couple so be prepared to sell them.

Or

You can ride along with the veterans and get what you need with no problems. Level up like crazy really fast. Get good prime weapons and Warframes. But, then, what's the purpose of Nightwave? It's too hard for newbies and too easy for veterans. It's a very nice addition, not a replacement.

Supposedly Nightwave replaced Alerts. Alerts served a purpose and was a big help for a new player. Veteran players already have more than enough of what was offered in the Alerts so of course it wasn't a big deal for them to lose it. And they bang their head against the wall and cry out "It's easy!" Uh, nope. It's not. Unless we ride along with you vets.

So, Nightwave. It's pretty cool. I can't do much but hey, I'll hitch a ride if I can then I'll just bust it out!... But a replacement for Alerts???? It's not.

i absolutely love Warframe. And Nightwave is cool but it brings up that question. Veteran players call new players cry babies. They defend the decision to remove Alerts and bring in Nightwave all while cussing out the new players, blasting them and calling them names.

How is that helping? New players just want help. Get a grip veteran. Try to understand where newbies are coming from and reach out to them. Help them understand the game and how to play it. Don't just dismiss them and project your feelings on them. Be nice. Be respectful. Be helpful. Try to be diplomatic, not condemning.

Wow....this was not my experience at.....first....mk1 weapons level pretty smoothly....2nd pug squading is natural part of the game.3rd the only plat you need to spend is 25 of the starter plat to get a reactor..4th the first 6 quest has everything you need to get started..5th a new player experience is slated for implmentation into the game...6th low level alert type missions exist in syndicates. 7th all mk1 weapons can be scrapped for slots once you upgrade..8th quality weapon upgrades can be had as low as mr 2.for credits. 9th plenty of complete researched clans that will let people join just to access bps. 10th nightwave daily alerts are alerts anyone can do...thats up to 7 k rank a week for a tier system that only requires 10k a tier...finding a couple 1ks and 3k to do is by far not a stretch...

 

You got bad info when you started warframe that put you focused on stuff that doesnt  matter .nightwave isnt a replacement for alerts its an solid upgrade with a few kinks to smooth out. one of the problems is vets telling new players they need adifferent warframe every time you run into a  hitch[like when i was stuck on the first 3 for 3 req spy mission i was told to get this frame or that frame when all i needed was to get better with my frame

 

 

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i think it would be better with challenges that would span the duration of the event, just split up the reward a bit.

(example kill 10000 eximus units, but every 500 reward some rep)

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The issue I have with Nightwave is that it made game more boring and static. Yes, you have tasks to complete but how many? There's a weekly reset, and one task per day, that's not how I imagine a game where there's always something to do. First thing first, you have to wait for weekly reset, that alone made Warframe more boring, Alert system never had this issue cause it always gave out something to do, be it a mere mission with credit reward or giving you something nicer (cosmetic thing or weapon BP).

There's also a thing about what feeling both Nightwave and Alert system are giving to you. Nightwave is literally a task system which you do just like that, there's no real meaning felt behind it, no real importance. On the other hand Alert system gave you feeling like Grineer/Corpus/Infested or Corrupted are always up to something, be it that some vital data got stored in faction's datavaults (spy missions), some important person appeared (capture mission), some potential sabotage target became exposed enough (sabotage mission), etc. Doing Alerts felt like you're actually striking the enemy and damaging their efforts. Nightwave just rewards you for doing feats which feel unimportant and which you could do even before, just without getting reward.

It's just that with Alert system, game felt more lively. Factions were actually always in center of Alert system, acting as enemies. Nightwave gives a crap about who the enemy is most of the time cause tasks are "kill X enemies" or "kill X enemies with Y elemental damage". Nightwave is a nice system, no doubt about it, but it robbed game of it's life, it's constant feeling that Origin system around you, a player, is constantly in move. Sortie and Invasions give out this feeling of life well, same goes for Syndicate missions which change daily.

So I would love if Nightwave and Alert system could both work within game, as separate systems cause right now, game feels boring and static to me and I feel DE looked only on concept and technical side but no longer on how will the replacement of Alert system affect the feeling people get from game.

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6 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I keep hoping that at some point you'll actually make a point, instead of just always resorting to deflection and really sill ad hominem attack. 

If you didn't want to participate in, how did you put, "the online job that only pays in e-peen" you would have just shrugged and said "yeah I'm not interested in doing that" the exact same way many of us have done for any given challenge. I've personally skipped a bunch of challenges because I just didn't feel like it. The same way I just haven't completed the Glast gambit and Octavia's anthem to get 2 of the very powerful frames, because I just don't want to do those things right now. 

Do you think that I'm going to complain about it if something comes along that requires either of those two? Not going to be happening. 

 

The same way that I skipped Profit Taker and went to the sanctuary to grind focus instead. It's not because I am in a solo clan, and would have to work ohhh soooo hard to hop in recruiting and type out a "lfg need to do profit taker for Nora let's be friends.... without the benefits". It's because I already had enough standing for the week and other priorities that I wanted to deal with instead. 

There's nobody forcing me to do anything I am not willing to do. The system is designed that way.

To put it in a way that you might begin to understand :

There's no problem here other than people feeling entitled to, and whining about points for their epeen that they are unwilling to earn on the game's terms. 

So am I. The difference is that I am not trying to convince others that they don't have every right to respond. 

And yes I'm very dismissive of the issue you raised because I see it as a complete non-issue for the reasons given before. 

Your complaint boils down to the fact that you don't like the condition set for the challenge. Not that it can't be done, or the game doesn't allow you to do what is being requested. Just that you, and the vocal minority like you, don't want to do it.

That's not really an issue with the game. 

Funny thing, every single person who goes on a friends list in game or in life, is temporary. 

Making friends doesn't have to be temporary, but it can be if that's what you need. It's a perfect solution to the fact that some people are trying to pretend that the multiplayer game they play doesn't have others in it. The ones making a mockery of the system are the few pretending that it is way too difficult to get people to agree to help you out, and insisting that there is no way to complete the challenges. Especially in a game that has encouraged us for a very long time, to join others in clans for mutual benefit. 

There's nothing wrong with the challenge conditions that they're complaining about. 

Hour long survivals, profit taker, those are elite challenges. And they're elite challenges that are easier for groups. And for groups that preform via recruiting /assembling a team in advance so everyone can be on the same page. (Because of the whole these people may not synergise properly/know what's expected of them.) It's reasonable to put the condition there rather than "kill 150 enemies using radiation with a friend".

Hell, last night I did the eximus stronghold Sortie and got a total of 4 kills towards my total, because there was a banshee nuking everything. And I was better off than the other 2 guys in the squad. 

Let the newbs have the easier tasks with fewer conditions. They need the standing. 

 

pot kettle ect.

I don't think I've seen you make a valid point this whole topic. All you seem to want to do is derail any kind of legitimate discussion on why Nightwave is bad so you can pat yourself on the back. I mean S#&amp;&#036;, you even listed the biggest problem there without batting an eye; "right now", something you continue to ignore. You don't get the option to just put nightwave off until you feel like it, but anyone recognizing that as a problem is just rong and the rongest for "not getting it", as well as all the people complaining about the time investment, barriers to entry, and constantly dangling it in front of every player's face as "the thing to do right now or you'll miss out!"

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How about this, keep the "attack" or "defense" posts to private chats huh? seriously, once it turns into im wrong, no you are, we ALL lose face & good ideas, solutions, suggestions & so forth get buried under a mire of self indulgent e peen measuring.

Simple solution, bring alerts back, was & IS STILL a viable function as per the fact that plains of Grindilon STILL has an alert system, granted no one really does it because the rewards are paltry & most end up bugging out.

But why cant it just be scaled up to star charts & effect individual systems? whats wrong with using BOTH systems? then the challenges could get wacky as hell, but it wouldnt be the be all end all.

everyone profits, no one is denied & those hoops become something for new players to learn & travel the systems until theyre able to start taking on the big fish challenges, then doing a 60 minute survival, becomes a freakin achievement not a self imposed necessity because.

Anyway, gl folks & yes I know the futility in requesting civility from Da Interwebz, but a goomba like me is always gonna try anyway.

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2 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

pot kettle ect.

I don't think I've seen you make a valid point this whole topic. All you seem to want to do is derail any kind of legitimate discussion on why Nightwave is bad so you can pat yourself on the back. I mean S#&amp;&#036;, you even listed the biggest problem there without batting an eye; "right now", something you continue to ignore. You don't get the option to just put nightwave off until you feel like it, but anyone recognizing that as a problem is just rong and the rongest for "not getting it", as well as all the people complaining about the time investment, barriers to entry, and constantly dangling it in front of every player's face as "the thing to do right now or you'll miss out!"

Already answered this one:

8 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I keep hoping that at some point you'll actually make a point, instead of just always resorting to deflection and really sill ad hominem attack. 

See? Well no, maybe not, because you claim to have not seen quite a lot of the thread at this moment. 

And not being able to endlessly procrastinate is not a flaw. As I pointed out pages ago, if you're demanding that nightwave can just become endless, that would mean that there aren't any subsequent seasons. Many of us who are opting in are doing so because we want that umbral forma.

And you know what's better than getting one umbral forma for doing stuff we would normally do in the game anyway (because believe it or not, many people aren't shirking from these challenges)? Getting two umbral formas, one this season and one the next if they put it there again. But that can't happen if there's only one season because a few folks like you afraid of not being able to complete it on time if you don't have all eternity to get it done. 

Now it's probably ok for you, because you already explained that you are disappointed that you just can't buy yourself these umbral formas. You insisted that your not being able to buy it would destroy the game, didn't you? So you would benefit from forcing DE to find some other way to make it available like in the market, but not everyone supports your desire to be able to pay2win. 

And look around, there are people more than 66% done. What week are we in? So we know that the challenges are doable for people playing this game instead of paying to win. 

On the other hand there are many people who are just doing the minimum to get to rank 30. Those of us on that path are more than able to pick and choose what challenges to accept. We can skip any that we don't particularly want to do. I usually have a couple unfinished at the end of the week and dgaf because I don't need to do them. 

And then there are people who have flat out opted not to bother, because the rewards for the tiers just don't interest them. 

 

Nobody in any of those groups needs to fear missing out. So, what group do you belong to that makes you so very afraid of not being able to keep up with the Joneses? 

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Of course, don't actually respond to anything and just keep on making excuses and pretending that it has anything to do with "pay2win" or whatever you have cooked up in your head, usually as some excuse to justify your own toxicity.

Like when I brought up how perfectly Warframe worked for casual play because you could invest time or money instead of both, and then you pretended that must mean I only ever spend money and never invest time. Nope, never mind the 3.5k mission hours, or the fact that I've never bought a warframe from the market, or really anything but cosmetics, and the Kavat thing for the lulz. Your default stance is to assume that everyone else is just the rongest rong because of some crap you made up in your head.

 

Do you contribute anything to this discussion, or do you just derail the entire thread, for ~60 pages now, with "no u" over and over? Because I have not seen you make a single legitimate point of any kind in this entire topic. Just a whole lot of "your concerns are unfounded because I don't personally feel that way about it".

 

Also, again, for someone so toxic, you sure can't seem to handle criticism.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So am I. The difference is that I am not trying to convince others that they don't have every right to respond. 

And yes I'm very dismissive of the issue you raised because I see it as a complete non-issue for the reasons given before. 

Your complaint boils down to the fact that you don't like the condition set for the challenge. Not that it can't be done, or the game doesn't allow you to do what is being requested. Just that you, and the vocal minority like you, don't want to do it.

That's not really an issue with the game. 

The fact is that the condition is completely unnecessary. If we were to follow your advice and recruit random players as temporary friends for these challenges, isn't that essentially achieving the same result as queuing up a public mission too? It's painfully obvious that this is inefficient. Really what is the benefit of keeping the friend condition? Does that make the challenge harder? What do you have to lose by removing the condition? Nothing really. The people who like doing endurance runs are unaffected because the challenge remains the same. People who enjoyed doing these missions with friends aren't affected either because you can still do that if you want to, and people who like playing solo can play the game how they want. The game does have a solo queuing option for a reason. Removing the condition doesn't diminish the challenge at all either since the only thing it's gonna do is to make the mission easier to access, not finish, so the challenge remains the same. I really don't understand why you're defending a condition that would see more players benefit by it being removed.

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14 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I hope they aren't paying you for your service, since all you're really doing is encouraging people to find another game to play.

If it weren't a problem, there wouldn't be a 58 page topic of complaints about the system and all of it's glaring problems, as well as dozens of new topics every day discussing better alternatives. but, I guess we're just not "hardcore" enough to understand that and online job that only pays in e-peen is just the best, and definitely not a trap for people with fragile egos to pat themselves on the back and blame everyone else for "not getting it".

4

I think we can safely say that 1/3rd of those posts are Guzmantt1977 and myself pointing out that people haven't done their maths and need to do their maths and then the complaints collapse under the maths, and another 1/3rd of those posts are people complaining about Guzmantt1977 and myself doing the math. And so it's really only 1/3rd of that number that are complaints. So maybe a 20 page thread.

Whoops! I did the maths again.

I agree with everyone about the Forma/ Scultpture/Gild/ Inventory check activities. they are not good. the rest is just playing the game so they are good.

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14 hours ago, exophase00 said:

That is the whole point, why make new players spend wolf creds, a rare resource, for a MR fodder that they will only use once/twice, when they can spend it on things like reactors/catalysts, which is more useful in terms of progression.

Then don't wait until you have all the good stuff, then when you have nothing else to buy, then buy them as MR fodder. There is always a choice.

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

I think we can safely say that 1/3rd of those posts are Guzmantt1977 and myself pointing out that people haven't done their maths and need to do their maths and then the complaints collapse under the maths, and another 1/3rd of those posts are people complaining about Guzmantt1977 and myself doing the math. And so it's really only 1/3rd of that number that are complaints. So maybe a 20 page thread.

Whoops! I did the maths again.

I agree with everyone about the Forma/ Scultpture/Gild/ Inventory check activities. they are not good. the rest is just playing the game so they are good.

I did the maths as well, Alerts = reward in no more than 10 minutes + can do multiple ones each day netting me Nitian Auras and Cosmetics

Nightwave 2-3weeks for 6 ranks and 50 cred = One Helmet.

 

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