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[DE]Bear

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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4 hours ago, Voltage said:

It was nice having something that was more than the usual "Rotation C and restart" structure. I hope more challenges are available to fill the "Elite" role for challenges.

Will there be dedicated missions like Syndicate dailies to be more interesting than capturing hundreds of fugitive groups? This would also be cool to have dedicated spawns for the Wolf through some additional linear grind.

The majority of the playerbase who will participate in this system place challenges like "10 perfect conservation" as "Elite" (I am not trying to be rude, just realistic and observant). Trying to fill everyone's niche is impossible due to the variety of difficulties people play at, and the overwhelming majority of this game's playerbase being highly casual (again, not necessarily bad, just the target audience). If Elite challenges are to be truly elite, we should have way more challenges available so that the casual player can get 30 easily for the Umbral Forma (like they want) and the experienced can reach that same spot efficiently (as they should).

If the challenges are too hard/time consuming for the majority, there will be complaints until its mind-numbingly easy (see: the Profit Taker with Repeller Systems, Vauban Prime crafting costs in 2016, attempts at Hema reduction in 2016/2017, Focus grind since Update 18, Void RNG complaints for years, etc). Trust me, I used to be one of many to complain about grind. I have since learned that proper grind in Warframe is what keeps the game engaging, and although nothing is perfect, less grind will ultimately lead to less gameplay and more content drought.

With this in mind, and from my observations throughout the years, the majority don't want grind and want to be handed the items almost immediately. This is quite clear seeing complaints on the first day of a week long challenge.

It's nice to see an attempt from the development team, and thank you for the transparency [DE]Bear. I (and many others) await more changes to the Nightwave system. I do hope DE goes back to the drawing board and tries again with this "try to cater to everyone here and there" style of challenges.

It's just a shame that the community is quick to denounce any attempt at more gameplay. There is a reason we have long lengths of content drought, and it's because we ask for it.

I think it's amazing how people project on to others. Some players just want to see a balance. They're not saying get rid of it. Nightwave is very cool. I want it to be permanent.

It's not so much of a complaint about grinding. The whole of Warframe is a grind and I love every minute of it. And so do the players that everyone else is calling "entitled" The problem lies in "Does the End justify the Means?"

If you read through the posts there's not so much of a cry to remove it but a concern. I'm a MR19 going on 20. I see what they're saying and I totally agree. I'm a solo player. And don't get me started on that. Some of the challenges, even though they don't have to do them, are pretty dog gone hard! And in their eyes unfair and not worth it.

Instead of condemning we need to be helpful. Educate and show them what they're missing. De-escalate not escalate. Entice not incite. 

Do what DE would want the Warframe community to do. Help everyone to have a blast playing this awesome game!

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Actually, I feel you guys can separate the wolf cred from the rewords and make the Nightwave a 2 part event.

1. Wolf Cred part

Maybe add few more daily or weekly missions just for Wolf Cred. These missions work as the replacement of the old alerts buy more stable. So it will be easier for new players to gain usual resources or cosmetics. This part is like the old alert system and give new players chances to get goodies. Also friendly for casual players to collect the cosmetics.

2. Nightwave reputation part

The current reputation system for Nightwave can be some seasonal events. Challenges and hardcore contents can be added in the missions to gain NW reputation. This part is meant for veterans or hardcore players. Also you can save certain missions, so some players who just come back or become strong enough during the mid of the season will have chance to get the good rewards.

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In the interest of repeating myself.

I think it's amazing how people project on to others. Some of the players that you think are "entitled" (you couldn't be more wrong) just want to see a balance. They're not saying get rid of it. Nightwave is very cool. I want it to be permanent. 

It's not so much of a complaint about grinding. The whole of Warframe is a grind and I love every minute of it and so do the players that everyone else is calling "entitled" The problem lies in "Does the End justify the Means?"

If you read through the posts there's not so much of a cry to remove it but a concern. I'm a MR19 going on 20. I see what they're saying and I totally agree. I'm a solo player. And don't get me started on that. Some of the challenges, even though they don't have to do them, are pretty dog gone hard! And in their eyes unfair and not worth it.

Instead of condemning we need to be helpful. Educate and show them what they're missing. De-escalate not escalate. Entice not incite. 

Do what DE would want the Warframe community to do. Help everyone to have a blast playing this awesome game!.

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3 minutes ago, Waterymelon said:

Actually, I feel you guys can separate the wolf cred from the rewords and make the Nightwave a 2 part event.

1. Wolf Cred part

Maybe add few more daily or weekly missions just for Wolf Cred. These missions work as the replacement of the old alerts buy more stable. So it will be easier for new players to gain usual resources or cosmetics. This part is like the old alert system and give new players chances to get goodies. Also friendly for casual players to collect the cosmetics.

2. Nightwave reputation part

The current reputation system for Nightwave can be some seasonal events. Challenges and hardcore contents can be added in the missions to gain NW reputation. This part is meant for veterans or hardcore players. Also you can save certain missions, so some players who just come back or become strong enough during the mid of the season will have chance to get the good rewards.

Yes, yes and yes! Well said! BALANCE we just need Balance.

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21 minutes ago, Borduglas said:

   The aspects of the previous alert system that I liked:

1.) Bite-sized.

2.) We revisit nodes we would never come back to once finished previously.

3.) Quick way to get nitain etc.

4.) Quick way to get the difficult to obtain kavat DNA.

I would like these aspects to be combined with the new nightwave system. Have some challenges in there that were previous alert missions. This could be implemented as an hourly type cycle in the nightwave system.

   Things I like about the current nightwave:

a.) I could get a reliable method to get nitain.

b.) A reliable way to get orokin reactors/catalysts.

c.) Rewards for getting for points in the syndicate.

   Things I do not like with nightwave:

A.) Highly imbalanced mission structure. (eg. This week we had to do 10 syndicate missions for a measly 3000 standing)

B.) Sporadic reward for wolf cred.

   My suggestions:

1.) As a guideline for mission structure, have approximately 5 minutes of gameplay = 1000 standing. The daily missions completely feel fine with me.

2.) Have additional daily missions if my aforementioned suggestion of hourly missions won't work.

3.) Why not have wolf cred rewarded every time you reach 10 000 standing?

4.) Catering to endurance runners seem really counter productive when you already have arbitrations specifically for them. Why not flesh out the fun aspects of both systems and then profit as people have fun in their own way? In my opinion alerts were never for endurance runners in the first place, and nightwave is a replacement for those.

5.) I also suggest removal of the "friend" missions. 

6.) I haven't even done the elite missions because I am not good enough for them.

7.) Have kavat DNA and other more difficult to obtain resources in the cred offerings.

That is pretty dog gone good. Lol. Been wanting to say that. But YES! Balance it just needs some sort of balance. Love your ideas.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, IgnisDraconis4316 said:

Sadly friend you are straining at a knat to swallow a camel. Yes I was doing this all before but I got NOTHING out of it that I didn't already have. Now I have to work toward goals that give me new mods, new armor, umbra mod, new skins, new cosmetics.

If you don't want any armor, anything new then go ahead and just not do it. I will and I will get to show off that I was dedicated and loggin for rewards that are different then just more NANO SPORES. There are no true challenges if you don't get something for your effort and we are. You'd have to be blind to not see it.

No I have been doing it since it came out and it hasn't got boring and I am getting new things that I didn't have before.

Yes it gets old but anything to spice up the OLD content is good in my opinion. Change is KING.

And yes I feel they are awesome replacements to alerts where I had to wait MONTHS to get nitain now I farm this event and I can get what I need without waiting months to build Vauban Prime because of work.

Should they coexist. Premium alerts that give you nice rewards would be nice. But tied to what has happened in game.

Alerts being noob friendly is good because I want my new friends to play with me. That is what makes this game fun helping others get to my lvl.

and as for your last question yes. this give new rewards rewards that we didn't have before. it also gives us tons of kuva which I struggle with because of schedule. Plus it gives me something to do till Equinox Prime, mainline, and even more new content.

 

I am not a gamer that does his best to beat the game in 8 hours and then complain because I forced it down my own throat. How I play is not DE's fault but I am happy that they are providing ways to make it new and fun.

Not to mention @[DE]Bear, @[DE]Megan, @[DE]Rebecca, @[DE]Steve, I LOVE IT when Nora Night says. "The one and future BADASS." as a reward for meeting a challenge. Makes me want to flex. Keep adding new mods, new armor, new weapons, and new better rewards. I have been hear 5 years and I will stay for another 5 if you continue to make updates like Nightwave that are unexpected, new, different rewards (mods, armor, hell skins).

 

well, let's see how much you will keep doing this, not only you, but all players who see it like you do.

also, you were already getting rewards in the previous way, you clicked the alert mission and 5-10 minutes later you had the reward.

now, with the nightwave system, you need to grind up all the way to the reward.

i am not saying it is a problem, perce, but alerts should not have been replaced by the nightwaves challenges, simply coz they are a different thing and they have a different function.

nightwaves are nice too, it is a nice addition.

but, both should coexist and the player should choose what he/she wants to do.

alerts: a quick and easy way to a reward

challenges: a set of missions/challenges leading up to a reward.

this way, it will appeal to all kind of players and everybody will be happy.

also, if it took you months to get nittain with the old alerts, as you said on your post, you were definitely doing something wrong.

take a look here --->

 

On 2019-03-02 at 1:24 PM, GentlePuppet said:

I went back and did some more math. I made a list of all the alerts from a single day (Feb 21st) then added up mostly all the rewards.
Check it out here if yer curious:https://pastebin.com/raw/BrAVctzP

After 1 day, if you did every single alert, you could get the following. (I was going to do 1 week for alerts as well but there was just too much stuff)
1,079,700 Credits
17 Blueprints
6 Mods
2,200 Endo
4 Nitain
60 Void Traces
MISC Resources

After 1 week in the new system, if you do all the weekly challenges, including the dailies, you'll get 45k, and if yer starting at rank 0 as a new player would be, you will get to rank 4 and you can get the following.
1 Sigil, 2 Glyphs, 50 Wolf Creds, and 2 Weapon Slots.
With those 50 credits, you can buy:
2 Mods OR
1 Helmet and 5 Nitain OR
2 Vauban Parts OR
1 Weapon Blueprint OR
15 Nitain OR
1 Weapon Skin
That's it, Nothing else...

BUT if you take into account that most new players can't do sorties, won't find 5 ayatans in a week, won't be helping much in a Hydrolist fight, and if they're not yet far enough on the star chart to scan stuff for Simaris then you can lop off 16k right there, so they'd only end up getting 29000. They'd either have to wait for an 8th day to get that 1k daily or they'd have to be in a squad and capture 20 of these escapees to get to rank 3 if they wanted those creds on their 7th day.

Take this how you will.

 

Edited by No1Eye
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5 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

I'm in this camp so I hope you do reconsider this requirement in the future. If people need a check box to play with friends, well, that just makes me sad, I wish my friends had stuck with it.

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Posted (edited)

you have EoS 3 waves giving you 3000 standing for 6 mins, and you are telling me to do a 10 times longer section for just extra 2000

if it was 30000 standing I would be more happy to do it (doesn't mean it is reasonable to demand a 60 minute section in the first place)

Alert was not challenging content or contents that needed a friend, so nightwave, as a replacement to alert, should not be challenging or requiring a friend

tactical alert is another story, just it has alert in its name does meaning it is regular alert

6 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

We will be applying what we have learned to Nightwave Series 2 - but can only improve with constructive, detailed posts about what you like / didn't like about acts. Knowing what you like is just as important as what you don't like. 

hell you sure you want a broken system for another 8 weeks? You need to apply the change as soon as you make up your mind to change it

Edited by akira_him
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4 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

So at first pass, we are seeing some concerns rise to the top:

  • Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.
  • Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.
  • Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

For some of these Elite challenges, we were attempting to speak to the endurance runners, but it seems we may have missed the mark - if you liked it, or didn't like it, comment below. In the end, we wanted to make a series of challenges that spoke to every type of player, but we do not want to do so at the cost of enjoyment overall.
 

I would prefer all of these be changed.

The ayatan sculptures did encourage me to hunt down my last few missing nodes and unlock arbitrations, which is presumably the sort of thing you were hoping for, so I do have mixed feelings about that one. On the other hand, I got 3 sculptures from my first arbitration though .. I imagine if RNG had not favored me (or I hadn't gotten a group for archwing interception..) I might have a much lower opinion of it.  It really didn't help that we got that one mid-week without any hint that we might want to horde sculptures unsocketed. In effect, the mission became, "acquire 5 new sculptures in 3 days. GO!" .. even if you don't change it, now that we know there is a reason to hold unsocketed sculptures, it will be trivial for many more people next time it comes around. 

As for the hour long survivals .. much too long in one sitting. I'm old. I use the bathroom. One of the two is anti-solo so I can't use that as a work-around to pause it. More minutes cumulative would be better. Also, note there have been multiple reports of life support drops bugging out after 45 minutes. Also, it caters to trolls. Also people contextual reload next to the canisters. Also, the widgets drop next to the canisters at times. Also it encourages people to not merely form squads of people they trust to avoid said trolling, but to get super picky about squad composition. Switching to a cumulative time would address all of these. This is a recurring theme, with people suggesting cumulative bounty phase counts would be better than a simply "x bounties" and/or replacing hydralist with hydra or multiple terras. 

As for friends .. I have friends who play. I have a clan in an alliance I play with occasionally. When we want to do the same things, not when you want us to. Having to catch someone who wants to do sorties at the same time is just an annoying hoop to jump through. It adds nothing to the game for me, it only subtracts. 

Note that if your UI made it easy to make, see and accept friend requests while in a mission, there would be a lot fewer complaints about this one, although the dedicated solo players would still have an issue. 

But lets talk about some of those friends for a moment. I have 2 who play warframe once a month. We play together one night a week, but we rotate through different games. They'll play twice by the 10 week mark. They are unlikely to make it to rank 3, where the first wolf cred lives. We did a few alerts together, but nightwave has literally nothing to offer for this sort of super-casual player. I'm particularly glad we got an aura for them, because they'll never see another one under the current system. (Yes, I realize I can just give them things. We chose not to go that route so far.) 

I have not played a game with the "battle pass" system this has been compared too, but I have seen similar reward tracks in other games. I'm on such a track in guild wars 2, despite not having played since the new year. Whenever I go back, I'll be at the same spot as I left. This seems like a much better system than the limited time nightwave. In particular it is utterly devoid of the stress nightwave invokes.  

 

4 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

We will be applying what we have learned to Nightwave Series 2 - but can only improve with constructive, detailed posts about what you like / didn't like about acts. Knowing what you like is just as important as what you don't like. 

You seem to be saying we're going to spend the next 8 weeks jumping through friend hoops and the like in any case. This is a very disappointing thing to read.  I was already expecting a high probability of burnout by May.  Was hoping you would address some issues immediately. 

 

Between the stress and not trusting your mission-making sense (will there be a PvP mission? An archwing one? An archwing one with a friend who doesn't hate archwing even more than you do? I'm sure there will be a profit-taker one, and unlike arbitrations you can't marathon the faction required to unlock it. How about a fishing one? The leechers will make trying to do bounties that week insufferable. Mining? CETUS WISPS??!?) I am not feeling positive about the next few months.  

 

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Posted (edited)

My Feedback About Nightwave's System

I love the idea behind Nightwave and as a vet player, the concept of Elite challenges as a goal to work for with an appropriate reward is very appealing. However not everyone has the time or means to complete some of these demanding weekly challenges. From the calculations posted by other players, missing Weekly and Elite challenges makes a significant impact on progress that Dailies can not make up for, especially considering the time span these challenges are distributed over. Missing an Elite one week means you might need another week to get your Wolf Creds from a rank up, and that can lead to further missing out on a store rotation, so on.

Here are some of my proposed ideas to have a system balanced for both casual and hardcore players alike: 

  • Weekly and Elite challenges should accumulate for the duration of the Series. My friend might not have time to do a 1h Kuva Survival this week, but they will be able to do it on an upcoming holiday. I really dislike bounties, but spreading them out over the course of a month makes it a lot less fatiguing/contributing towards burn out.
  • To reward consistent players, implement a bonus system where completing all Weeklies the week they are assigned will grant additional creds or standing. Perhaps the devs can borrow inspiration from how Conclave Weeklies are rewarded and give players a randomized rare mod, fluff decorations, or other items. (This bonus system should not count Dailies.)
  • Wolf Cred requirements on cosmetics and weapons should be adjusted. I've always seen helmet and weapon alerts as breadcrumbs to keep newer players invested in the game. As Wolf Cred distribution now stands, newer players are actually hit the hardest by the current store costs. They will not be able to accumulate creds at the same rate or to the same amount as more experienced players. Assuming they are only able to complete Dailies, that means 7k/1.4 ranks per week. It will take them ~2 weeks to get 50 Wolf Creds, ~5 weeks for a total of 100 Wolf Creds. That's a month's worth of consistent work to only get 2 helmets and maybe some nitain or a Vauban piece, which pales in comparison to the previous alert system. I doubt they will be able to get to rank 12 or 16 for even more credits without extensive outside help.
    Thus, lower the requirements on these items to retain the same "breadcrumb" function:
    - Helmet cost to 25 creds. New players can then comfortably get the credit threshold for at least 1 helmet + 1 potato in their first month of playing.
    - Former alert weapons are mostly fodder only useful for low MR players. Lower the cost to 25 creds. Glaive, Dark Dagger, Dark Sword, and Jaw Sword can stay at 50 creds due to their relative strength and niche applications.
  • Add Forma (BP or prebuilt) as an evergreen reward to the store pleeeeeeease give me more incentive to prestige

My Feedback About a Specific Challenge

I loved the 1 hour Kuva challenge but its difficulty seems really strange compared to something like "Complete 3 rounds of Elite Onslaught." Perhaps make a "Nightmare" tier for more specific challenges. I think a lot less people would be upset over this particular one it if it didn't affect normal standing gains so much. So leave the Nightmare act as optional, and have 3 other Elite acts for more generalized challenges like fighting the Hydrolyst or doing a survival with friends. That way no one can complain if someone at the office gets a specific challenge idea like "Solo capture a Hydrolyst without a lure exploding." Make it reward a bit of extra standing. Every week: 7 dailies, 7 weeklies, 3 elites, 1 nightmare. 👀

Looking forward to where this system goes!

Edited by bloodtron40000
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[DE]Bear

I want to add my little bit to this:

5 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:
  • Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.
  • Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.
  • Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

Many people are already bored by those game modes which are being mentioned in the Nightwave challenges.

And my personal feelings about these:

  • Survival is ok, but a bit too long. We did many long survival missions in the pas, and even 2 hours survival on the initial event, which IRL took about 3-4 hours (we had like 1 to 5 fps because of all the oxygen lying on the floor and in-game time was going really slow) with one of squad-mates having a panic attack in the middle and another going "mad" by the end of the survival (he was mumbling and doing random stuff). So the hardest thing in missions like this is to "not fall asleep".
  • I've also got bored by syndicate missions... I did so many of them swapping syndicates and farming relics/keys... and these are just the usual missions, where you can find syndicate stuff in additional to the regular and get some syndicate standing for completing this. My profile says that I have completed 18907 missions, and most of them were the usual random missions... Doing 1-2 is OK, speedrunning few captures is OK... but 10 random syndicate missions - I even don't want to begin. I know - if I do these solo - I will be running around, looking for medallions, and opening every locker/chest or whatever and this will take A LOT of time. 😐
  • Invasion mission - my and my clan-mates did A LOT of invasions a long time ago on the Gradivus event, farming formas and other stuff. We did even more invasions after that. And these aren't very different from the regular missions.
  • Speaking of Plains of Eidolons and similar Venus stuff - I just don't want to do any of these things anymore. I couldn't even force myself to properly do venus fishing/hunting/missions/k-drive_things and level-up Venus syndicates. 😐 Even understanding that I am missing a lot of mastery and some other useful things from Venus - I can't force myself to do any of these.
  •  Sorties are kinda boring too, but doing them once in a while is ok... Though I have 94/90 rivens - it won't allow me to do sortie. And I can't get rid of these rivens, becase all that are opened are useful ones, and about 20 veiled rivens can turn useful after opening them... and I don't want to waste time opening them right now... So I'll just have to wait until riven limit will be increased. 😞
  • Onslaught is ok, but it's weird to see that there is just 3-waves. Why not a complete rotation of 8-waves?  Why not even 4 waves for 2 A-rotation rewards?...
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1 minute ago, bloodtron40000 said:

I loved the 1 hour Kuva challenge but its difficulty seems really strange compared to something like "Complete 3 rounds of Elite Onslaught." Perhaps make a "Nightmare" tier for more specific challenges.

The thing is that 1 hour kuva challenge is 60 minutes. 3 waves onslaught is 7.5 minutes. So 60 min vs 7.5 min that's really strange.

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For me doing an hour of survival actually starts to physically hurt my hands and I have to stop playing games for a day or two afterwards. It's not worth it to me for only 5k standing to do that and I can see myself just burning out on Warframe because that 1 hour survival is from a math and weapons/warframes standpoint is entirely doable(I've done it before) but for my physical heatlh I just have to stop. If this shows up more often well I guess I'm going to find something else to play because day to day I'd rather take most things at my own pace rather than this rat race of "Do something you hate and we'll give you the same reward as if you did something easy".

Also people keep saying "you can miss objectives and still complete Nightwave" and that's true but what you've got on your hands here with Nightwave is a basically 10 week long timed event that's actually your main way to get certain progression sensitive items like Nitain. So what you've basically got right now is a bunch of people scrambling and finding that some of the objectives you're absolutely sticking to keeping in the rotation are narrowing that completion window, so I hope you guys are ready for people to find out that weeks in they can't complete The Wolf of Saturn Six because early on bad objectives piled up and then they had to do overtime one week and couldn't find time to play at all. I like to take breaks from games, I like to play other games, I don't like it when I feel like I should be asking you guys for vacation time for Nightwave objectives for a week or two.

That isn't to say that I have nothing positive to say about Nightwave, for more casual players being able to get nitain more on demand is AMAZING, being able to choose former alert rewards is also great. However I feel like this is being overshadowed because this is a 10 week long event with missable tiers and rewards and that part of the system has kinda missed the mark for players who want specific things in the reward table. It's shifted the goalposts from "I'm never logged on when Nitain alerts are up" to "I can't get this thing I really want because I'm being screwed over by objectives a couple weeks in a row when I have time to play".

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I believe making any survival, defense, defection or other endless mission have multiple small periods/waves a lot better then one huge duration/number of waves.

 

For example, rather then 1 hour survival, which is just overkill, make it 3 times 20 minutes or 2 times 30 minutes.

 

As for the Ayatan statue challenge, that's too dependent on luck and if you don't have access to Arbitrations mostly undo-able.

 

The "with friends or clanmate" a lot of people have solo clans because they don't group up and just PUG everything or solo it, your idea may be to rewards those who play a certain way but it feels like a punishment to those who don't.

 

Lastly the Hydrolist hunter seems a bit too harsh, 3 Teralyst seems better to me.

 

I don't know if makes sense but a lot of these "Elite weeklies" don't feel like something I can or should do over the period of one week, too many are "do this one tough or long thing", I think they would be better as multiple moderately tough challenges done multiple times then one big one.

 

Example:

Hunt Hydrolyst = hunt 3 Teralysts

1 hour survival = 2 x 30 minutes (or 3 x 20 minutes)

1 sortie with friends/clan = 2 sorties

 

And so on.

 

Lastly I would say adding a second daily would fix a lot of issues, that extra 7k rep would make up for any shortcomings the weekly dailies may present. 

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9 minutes ago, RadYogh said:

The thing is that 1 hour kuva challenge is 60 minutes. 3 waves onslaught is 7.5 minutes. So 60 min vs 7.5 min that's really strange.

that was me trying to be tactful because i liked how short the onslaught one was lol

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Having a blast personally with no shortage of peoples doing Kuva hour survival, an hour is more elite sounding then 20 or even 40 minutes, just saying... I cringed more when I had to do 10 conservations perfect capture today, it was my first time hunting critters on Orb Vallis. Like DE_Steve said you only need to do 60% of it to get all the rewards. 60 minutes survival is not that bad it could be worse like 10 Conclave wins owo.

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I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere, but just in case not (haven't gotten to make it through all six pages yet):

I'm (generally) a fan of the Nightwave stuff so far, but my big concern is how this encourages some "not great" player behavior:

  • I never want to fill an Ayatan statue again for endo when I get one, because who knows if an Ayatan challenge is going to roll around again (even with less statues to fill) during a week when I won't have time to play much?
  • Sunday mornings are now potentially "wasted" playtime. I don't want to do the sortie before the afternoon rollover in case it's a sortie that lends itself well to the new challenge rotation. I don't want to do any of the syndicate missions before the afternoon rollover in case I need those for challenge credit, etc. Moving all the resets to the same time would totally clear this one up.

There were a couple other situations my friend group thought of as well in this vein that I'm blanking on. Basically I'd love for any/all possible challenges be tied to things we do and not to things we have. Instead of "Fill X Ayatan Statues," something like "Obtain X Ayatan Statues" would mean no one has to worry about hoarding for the future.

Secondly, some sort of additional text explaining the challenge would be great for less experienced players. E.g. clicking on "Unlock Relics: Unlock X/3 Relics" could have some sort of text about what cracking void relics is (I had to explain this to a newer friend who thought unlocking was the same as refining!). The explanatory text on the 60 min Kuva one could clear that up (the challenge lists "No life support modules" when it really means "no life support capsules," assuming the wiki is correct about which thing is which).

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As for my feedback :

I have to agree with all 3 things pointed out. 

1. I never have enough ayatan amber stars

2. Survivals are pretty punishing to me, in that i really dont have the ability to remain focused on one thing for an hour at a time. If the time spent in it was cumulative rather than all in one go it'd be much more manageable, even if the enemies were starting at even sortie levels were you to put that level of enemies into the starchart

3. I dont have friends to play with. I have a clan but its rare that i ever feel like its necessary to get help when my frame is so insanely overpowered compared to the content now with scaling damages and free energy etc. 

-----------------

That said i think the system is a decent idea, i just think a lot of the mission numbers are way overtuned. 10x syndicate missions for example take a long time, especially when you dont particularly want to do them if youre already max on standing rank or own all their rewards. Last weeks "complete 8x plains of eidolon bounties" took me the longest of all the challenges. Even if you chose the lowest bounty you still had to complete all 3 stages. Thats 24 mini missions you have to do for one set of points. Lets say each one takes 3minutes since almost all are on timers that force you to take longer with low spawn rates or defense objects that works out to be 72 minutes of time, over an hour for 3k standing. 

The problem with it is that the missions required are things people have already grown tired of, having run them over and over farming things or completing content so having to redo all these things many many times simply to grind out a tiny 3k standing feels bad

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Oh good, you guys are already on the 1-hour survival problems. Good to see that was acknowledged quickly.

The problem isn't so much its a challenge, but rather its just a drag to do. Pretty much all other challenges can be done within 30 minutes of dedicated playing or within a couple days of sporadic playing. I feel as though anything that forces you to stay at the controller for more than 30 minutes at a time is counter-intuitive to Nightwave's "Pickup and Play" mentality.

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6 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Hey Tenno,

Nightwave is here in all of it’s Nora Night-backed glory, and there has been a lot of back and forth (both on the forums and internally) about the challenges and how to accrue Nightwave standing. Series 1 of Nightwave is our first attempt at this addition to Warframe, and we want to thank you all for sharing your thoughts and requests. We will be using this thread to gather feedback from everyone on all Platforms! 

So at first pass, we are seeing some concerns rise to the top:

  • Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.
  • Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.
  • Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

For some of these Elite challenges, we were attempting to speak to the endurance runners, but it seems we may have missed the mark - if you liked it, or didn't like it, comment below. In the end, we wanted to make a series of challenges that spoke to every type of player, but we do not want to do so at the cost of enjoyment overall.

Nightwave is still new to the community and we are expecting to see more feedback come as the series progresses - you've only seen a % of all Acts, so as Series 1 progresses we need your feedback on the appearing Acts. We've seen players responding with some possible solutions that would make these challenges more piecemeal, balance the resources needed to complete some challenges, and assess social requirements to get your goodies.

We will be applying what we have learned to Nightwave Series 2 - but can only improve with constructive, detailed posts about what you like / didn't like about acts. Knowing what you like is just as important as what you don't like. 
 

As a player who can't play much in open worlds due to poor performance but actually enjoys the conclave more than the PvE side of the game, i think it would be really neat to have an alternative way to fulfill challenges through pvp gameplay, that way players in a similar position to mine can take part in the system by doing something we enjoy instead of having to choose between going through the awful experience of playing in a slideshow or missing out on the reputation. 

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Posted (edited)
  • I don't mind doing 60 minutes of survival but I would prefer a shorter mission that starts at a much higher level instead. This is obviously currently not possible because Nightwave works on top of existing missions but it's something to consider.
  • Instead of acts that require you to do the same thing X amount of times I would like to see more acts that require you to do something once but with a twist. The twist could be a time limit or any combination of additional requirements and restrictions. Go wild, especially for the elites.

  • I would expect Elite Sanctuary Onslaught to require 8 zones but at the very least it should be an even number. There's no point in encouraging players to leave halfway through a reward cycle.

Edited by averysmallbanana
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.

Nightwave in general is amazing as it gives players something to do, but the challenges do have issues. I'm gonna talk about the survival one specifically here.

Personally, I love the 60 minutes kuva challenge. After all, it is an elite challenge anyway and it really please people like me. The problem is, you put TWO survival challenge in a single week. If a player don't like survival as much as I do or even despise it, they potentially lose 10k points out of the minimum 30k points they have to earned each week.

Diverse the challenge in a single week, so you still challenge people that want that challenge, but not punishing those who don't like it too much. So, maybe ESO, Survival, Sortie with friends.

Edited by kingvaldemir

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Posted (edited)

I'd just like there to be enough challenges available that I can have some shot of hitting the last tier rewards even though I don't always get to play much/at all during the week. I missed quite a few last week since I didn't get a chance to work on it until Sunday. Looking at what's available this week, it's starting to look like I'm just going to have no chance of reaching any of the rewards tiers that interest me. As for 60-minute survivals... I mean, that's a big chunk taken out of my weekend playtime, but I'd feel a lot less awful about it if something like that offered a massive chunk of standing instead of 5k, and weren't so easily trolled. I think 60-minute requirement would have been more than enough without the no life support requirement. Not because the no life support requirement makes it so much harder, but just to stop malicious players from running over and activating life support at the 59-minute mark. Not to mention the horror stories of folks hitting them by accident because of the shared purpose on the context key. And the friend requirement is just stupid, it should go away completely but at a minimum at least expand it to include alliance members so I'm not filling up my friends list with random folks from recruiting just to tick a box.

Edited by RedDirtTrooper
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7 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

For some of these Elite challenges, we were attempting to speak to the endurance runners

I'm a little confused about this decision. In one of the Devstream, if I remembered correctly, the intention was to make Warframe more bite-sized in play experience. Is there a change of heart or is there something else in consideration?

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Posted (edited)

Host migrations are Warframe's problem for as long as I remember.

So many features have been affected by this issue that's it seems detached and malicious to create 60m+ missions challenges when most probable scenarios afer HM are

  • everyone loads back in but all powers and buffs non working, everyone loads at different pace, probably forced revive and mission objective threatened 
  • team disassembled or someone is bing kicked out but can't return, only original host keeps rewards
  • back to liset, team disassembled, nobody got rewards
  • game crashes completely (partial rewards are sometimes delivered in communication, sometimes not)

Also, Kuva 60m+ challenge is not troll-proof so anyone can activate life support at 59m and instantly ALt+F4 their game if they are host. This is badly designed task.

DE, you MUST know at this point in time your game has no excuses to be p2p mess, stop multitasking on consoles including Switch and give us dedicated servers.

Edited by Sannidor
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