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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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11 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

Im one of those simple math people. I havent saved a tally on how many missions ive completed and what theyre worth, nor is there any way to go back and check. So its simply easier to just do all the missions till you hit 30 and then not have to worry. 

Sure itd be a whole lot easier if all the missions gave the same standing, but they dont, so 2x elite missions are worth the same as one 3x non elites and 1x daily, so its more viable to miss a lot of dailys, a few non elites, or less elites. What im saying is some sorta progress tracker would be helpful for people like me who just do the things without doing math as i go

There is a progress tracker it's at the top of the Night Wave activities table. it shows you what rank you are, what you have unlocked and how many ranks and rewards you have left. If that is too hard for you to follow, I don't think 1 big tick per week is going to help you.

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Guess what, I'll enjoy this because its one of the few things I do well, your MATH note the no S in there btw, fail to take into simple account, WHAT these missions will be, the remaining hoops till this things end run could all be randomly generated to ALL involve being forced to do crap as the operator, or stealth becomes the next big hoopla, oh and lets add in the bugs im sure your MATH took into account right? im sure you MATH centric folks can calculate that & tell everyone its all good & not to worry, they fix that Index bug? any retroactive completions? Thats actually a question, just now thought about that.

Oh better yet, how about predicting how many PoE or fortuna missions people will have to try to do with Random disconnects, host migration bugs & so forth?

Math is useless when faced with unpredictability, if Math could predict anything, youd think we would have the weather down by now, same with medicine, we dont, we call it weather prediction & practicing medicine.

Chaos & Quantum physics/mechanics are as close as they could get so far & even they point to this rigid assumption as laughable.

So please, stop this bogus pill DE threw out to the public to try to smooth over the fact that this system is flawed while they gather information from our complaints & HOPEFULLY listen, because were all here because we LIKE THIS GAME & want to see it at its best & the simple fact this thread exists & hasnt been locked due to the self entitled argumentative children having buried numerous posts with actually productive feed back is frankly astounding, but shows maybe theres hope that this information will actually make it to the guys at DE.

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41 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

I think we can safely say that 1/3rd of those posts are Guzmantt1977 and myself pointing out that people haven't done their maths and need to do their maths and then the complaints collapse under the maths, and another 1/3rd of those posts are people complaining about Guzmantt1977 and myself doing the math. And so it's really only 1/3rd of that number that are complaints. So maybe a 20 page thread.

Whoops! I did the maths again.

I agree with everyone about the Forma/ Scultpture/Gild/ Inventory check activities. they are not good. the rest is just playing the game so they are good.

"doing the math" doesn't really solve the core design issue.

Also, no, 70% minimum participation rate for the rest of the game is not okay. That's way too much. It's like when people said TACOs are fine because "you can get them all done in less than an hour and it's not like you really need to do them every single day" and then everything got expensive because of course you have to do them every single day and it's a #*!%ing hour long chore before you can even start attempting to approach the idea of fun.

 

People not doing their maths is when people said atterax memestrike was too OP and game ruining, despite needing an at the time extremely rare mod, and not doing as much damage as most of the high tier explosives were doing anyway. This is an entirely different set of issues.

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1 minute ago, NezuHimeSama said:

"doing the math" doesn't really solve the core design issue.

Also, no, 70% minimum participation rate for the rest of the game is not okay. That's way too much. It's like when people said TACOs are fine because "you can get them all done in less than an hour and it's not like you really need to do them every single day" and then everything got expensive because of course you have to do them every single day and it's a #*!%ing hour long chore before you can even start attempting to approach the idea of fun.

 

People not doing their maths is when people said atterax memestrike was too OP and game ruining, despite needing an at the time extremely rare mod, and not doing as much damage as most of the high tier explosives were doing anyway. This is an entirely different set of issues.

Do the maths. When you actually add the numbers up with the exception of a few bad ideas for activities there is no problem with the core design,

 

Maths is important because if you did the Maths you would know you only need to do 60% of the activities at most. And fugitives will reduce the number of activities you need to do to even less.

And again, it is your choice to complete the activities or not. Given the majority of the activities are just do this mission several times and they can be done anywhere in any way, and are mostly a part of the everyday gameplay of Warframe. I have to ask if you enjoy Warframe, how are they chores?

 

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23 minutes ago, (NSW)Hatemachine said:

Guess what, I'll enjoy this because its one of the few things I do well, your MATH note the no S in there btw, 

 

Wrong, it is maths. it is short for Mathematics. Math is 1. End of math. Maths is every number and every equation after and including 1.
 

I'm not an American. So I do not use the incorrect singular "math."

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32 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Do the maths. When you actually add the numbers up with the exception of a few bad ideas for activities there is no problem with the core design,

 

Maths is important because if you did the Maths you would know you only need to do 60% of the activities at most. And fugitives will reduce the number of activities you need to do to even less.

And again, it is your choice to complete the activities or not. Given the majority of the activities are just do this mission several times and they can be done anywhere in any way, and are mostly a part of the everyday gameplay of Warframe. I have to ask if you enjoy Warframe, how are they chores?

 

I see 60% a lot lately, but wasn't it 68% before? Those two numbers aren't the same.

It's your choice to do TACOs or not, but GFL if you don't.

It's a list of random activities you have to do to get your standing, regardless of if it's what you wanted to. People don't generally like being told what to do and how to do it in a game, and for good reason; it's a game.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I see 60% a lot lately, but wasn't it 68% before? Those two numbers aren't the same.

It's your choice to do TACOs or not, but GFL if you don't.

It's a list of random activities you have to do to get your standing, regardless of if it's what you wanted to. People don't generally like being told what to do and how to do it in a game, and for good reason; it's a game.

Well, you know, we did the math.

You don't like being told what to do and how to do it...
oh my god wtf GIF

You play a game with set mission types and set rewards for those missions. Sorties are a set of 3 specific missions each day.

You can't do certain quests unless you have certain MR.

You can't use certain Weapons, unless you have certain MR.

You can't use certain Riven mods unless you have certain MR. Rivens have set rules on things you have to do to unlock them. Have you never unlocked a Riven?

You can't trade until you are MR2.

Specific elements are more effective against different enemies. 

I could go on and on with an almost endless list of ways this game tells you what to do and how to do it

Everything about this game is telling you what to do and how to do it. Why do you play? Do you just log in and sit in region chat for 6 hours?

Edited by (XB1)Tatakai no Kami

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Here's an idea, make the Wolf of Saturn Six and future bosses reward rep for each kill. Something like 500 rep or around that. That way it provides an additional catch up system for those falling behind in standing. And also as an additional reward for actually spending the time to fight the boss. If the boss specific drops are going to have semi low drop rates for a rare spawning enemy at least give rep as additional reward so the player isn't getting completely pissed on. Also logically it makes sense to. His chronies give rep for capturing them why not give rep for slaying their boss.

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5 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

math

You math freaks really love to roleplay Regor here, whenever I see a word "math" from any of you, I will get reminded of this: "I have the numbers, add those numbers, mix those waters...". Most people give a damn about your math cause all they need to know is a single number (how much standing they need to collect per week to reach rank 30 in time without going hyper), which you can realize even without so called "math". Don't blame others they don't believe you or can't accept what you're saying. You claim you did a math, but you provided no relevant proof, that alone leads people thinking you're a smartass (a liar as well) and a conflict-loving person. No offence meant, but you brought this up upon yourself.

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21 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And what happens when we get to week 9, and there are over 100 challenges left undone, and not enough time to do them all? How much more self-induced reeing would we be flooded with? 

That change would probably just encourage procrastination, and all that goes with it. 

 

If people would be left with 100 challenges undone if they aren't time limited they probably couldn't keep up with the pace they are released anyway. And if some want to procrastinate then that's their choice.. Which is the whole point let us have a choice of when we do it at our own pace. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

I think we can safely say that 1/3rd of those posts are Guzmantt1977 and myself pointing out that people haven't done their maths and need to do their maths and then the complaints collapse under the maths, and another 1/3rd of those posts are people complaining about Guzmantt1977 and myself doing the math. And so it's really only 1/3rd of that number that are complaints. So maybe a 20 page thread.

Whoops! I did the maths again.

 

That's not "doing the math". That's making up bs to justify your prejudices and calling it "math".

In real science, that is exactly what you shouldn't do.

panda no GIF by Shiny bear

Edited by Enialyx
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1 hour ago, CoreXCZ said:

You math freaks really love to roleplay Regor here, whenever I see a word "math" from any of you, I will get reminded of this: "I have the numbers, add those numbers, mix those waters...". Most people give a damn about your math cause all they need to know is a single number (how much standing they need to collect per week to reach rank 30 in time without going hyper), which you can realize even without so called "math". Don't blame others they don't believe you or can't accept what you're saying. You claim you did a math, but you provided no relevant proof, that alone leads people thinking you're a smartass (a liar as well) and a conflict-loving person. No offence meant, but you brought this up upon yourself.

Well, I typoed Maths so there is that. But yes I did the Maths several times, In this thread. All laid out and totalled up. You can go back and find it. Or you can ignore it. So yes the relevant proof exists in this very thread. Go find it.

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5 minutes ago, Serpentsouls said:

If people would be left with 100 challenges undone if they aren't time limited they probably couldn't keep up with the pace they are released anyway. And if some want to procrastinate then that's their choice.. Which is the whole point let us have a choice of when we do it at our own pace. 

You already have the choice, do them or don't do them. They expire. Then we get new ones. What you basically just admitted is that removing the time limit will have no effect on how people choose to do them. The same people who are only doing a handful of challenges will still only average a handful of challenges a week with no time limits. They'll still reach the same rank. They'll still earn the same standing.

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4 minutes ago, Enialyx said:

 

That's not "doing the math". That's making up bs to justify your prejudices and calling it "math".

I didn't "do the math," I did the maths. Please try to keep up here.

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1 minute ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

You already have the choice, do them or don't do them. They expire. Then we get new ones. What you basically just admitted is that removing the time limit will have no effect on how people choose to do them. The same people who are only doing a handful of challenges will still only average a handful of challenges a week with no time limits. They'll still reach the same rank. They'll still earn the same standing.

Lets say I have exams one week and next week I have free time.. as it is now I would lose one week of challenges. If challenges didn't have a time limit I would be able to do them when i have free time. And if i wanna do 100 challenges when I do have free time i could. This wouldn't change anything for people who menage to do them every week.. 

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3 minutes ago, Serpentsouls said:

Lets say I have exams one week and next week I have free time.. as it is now I would lose one week of challenges. If challenges didn't have a time limit I would be able to do them when i have free time. And if i wanna do 100 challenges when I do have free time i could. This wouldn't change anything for people who menage to do them every week.. 

If you have the time to do all the challenges every other week. losing one week will not negatively affect you. You will be rank 30 in less than 7 weeks So if you skip one week during that time you will be rank 30 before the end of week 8. 

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1 minute ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

If you have the time to do all the challenges every other week. losing one week will not negatively affect you. You will be rank 30 in less than 7 weeks So if you skip one week during that time you will be rank 30 before the end of week 8. 

That was just an example to illustrate what I mean..

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40 minutes ago, Serpentsouls said:

That was just an example to illustrate what I mean..

All it illustrated is that you have no understanding of how many points you need, how many there are to be gained, and how much time you have to do it.

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8 hours ago, gabuchan said:

The fact is that the condition is completely unnecessary. If we were to follow your advice and recruit random players as temporary friends for these challenges, isn't that essentially achieving the same result as queuing up a public mission too? It's painfully obvious that this is inefficient. Really what is the benefit of keeping the friend condition? Does that make the challenge harder? What do you have to lose by removing the condition? Nothing really. The people who like doing endurance runs are unaffected because the challenge remains the same. People who enjoyed doing these missions with friends aren't affected either because you can still do that if you want to, and people who like playing solo can play the game how they want. The game does have a solo queuing option for a reason. Removing the condition doesn't diminish the challenge at all either since the only thing it's gonna do is to make the mission easier to access, not finish, so the challenge remains the same. I really don't understand why you're defending a condition that would see more players benefit by it being removed.

All of the conditions of nightwave are unnecessary to some extent. Consider the same argument applied to the other challenges:

Killing x enemies with a damage type is virtually guaranteed once we mod our weapon with it, so why don't they remove the need to waste time killing and just check the loadouts? 

Doing x sorties per week is no more difficult than doing one and generally guaranteed once you get access to them, so why waste our time doing them? 

Catching x fish takes nothing more than 1 bait of the type and a spear. I have both, so why force me to enter the free roam areas when you already know I can get it done? 

You see the trend in all of those? Each is objectively true, but rotates around an unwillingness to play that part the game as required to earn the standing.

If someone is unwilling to play a part of the game, that's fine. They can skip 13k standing each week and still hit maximum rank. I do it a lot. But they have no right to demand that the challenges which they could have completed without detriment to themselves, if they wished to. I have no sympathy for those who can, but won't. 

 

BTW, I have a solo clan, I let people join from time to time, so they can get what they need and split, everyone who is still a member is inactive but I don't bother to kick them out. I don't have any issue with the "with a friend / clan mate" requirement. 

4 hours ago, (NSW)Hatemachine said:

Math is useless when faced with unpredictability, if Math could predict anything, youd think we would have the weather down by now, same with medicine, we dont, we call it weather prediction & practicing medicine.

Tide comes in, tide goes out, never a miscommunication, you can't explain that. Am I right? 

BTW, your "MATH" might be useless for those things because you don't know what "MATHS" is please check the OED for a definition: 

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/maths

😁

4 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Also, no, 70% minimum participation rate for the rest of the game is not okay. That's way too much.

Ooh numbers, where you get those numbers from? They look vintage, like 4 weeks ago, back in the dark ages when people were not as informed and pulling numbers out of thin air. 

Just do the maths for yourself and you'll be able to figure it out. Or go back over the thread and you'll find explanations for how the initial calculation of 300k / 430k has been revised based on the fact that the devs keep referring to the week number and it seems to be disregarding that first short week. Also, and this must be the millionth time I've said it, the original 70% estimate completely failed to take convicts into consideration. Some people seem to be about 2 ranks ahead of where they should be, and that's because of the standing from the convicts. That's a lot. 

 

2 hours ago, CoreXCZ said:

Most people give a damn about your math cause all they need to know is a single number (how much standing they need to collect per week to reach rank 30 in time without going hyper), which you can realize even without so called "math".

That depends entirely on where they currently are in their rankings. Someone who missed a week or two can't just aim for 30k/week and expect to complete.

You and I probably don't have the same standing right now, that's going to be true across the board for the playerbase. There's not going to be a one size fits all "yeah you're good for the week mate". 

Someone who did every challenge and earned a couple of ranks extra from convicts, can go on a 2 week vacation at this point if they want to. It's not rocket science. 

1 hour ago, Serpentsouls said:

If people would be left with 100 challenges undone if they aren't time limited they probably couldn't keep up with the pace they are released anyway. And if some want to procrastinate then that's their choice.. Which is the whole point let us have a choice of when we do it at our own pace. 

And

53 minutes ago, Serpentsouls said:

If challenges didn't have a time limit I would be able to do them when i have free time. And if i wanna do 100 challenges when I do have free time i could. This wouldn't change anything for people who menage to do them every week.. 

Doesn't work out to the benefit of players as a whole. You're really asking every player to forsake all possibilities of rewards from future nightwave seasons, in the hopes that some players (who may never bother to earn the rewards anyway) have a chance to complete the current tier list. That's what your proposal changes for the people who are going to be able to get it done by the last week. 

If a player cannot max out the ranking this season, they will be able to try again next season when they may be better prepared. Why is that a problem? 

 

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Posted (edited)

I think Nightwave should stay but needs tweaking or changes with somethings to fit new players and such.

I think alerts should be brought back for new players because that system has worked for years now and new players already have a hard grind ahead of them.

I want the option to mute Nora the annoying explorer... ok sorry couldn't help myself there but she really is annoying as all hell to listen to that I have turned the volume off on intermissions which sucks because I can't hear other npcs talk....

The thing about nightwave mostly is I have done all of it because I want the rewards but I honestly can say if I had limited time everyday in my life. I could actually see myself not caring about it at all. I have found myself busy with other things and wanting to do so many other things that I ask myself which are important to me as of now if I was to have limited time and that would have been farming for everything else and trying to build up so many mats that I would be able to just go in hand the rep in buy what I want and level it up or w.e and play other stuff like relic farming because I want and need plat + ducats.

There is also Kuva and endo which I need and want and then tridolons which if I was doing 3x3 does take 45 mins to do. Exploiter orb and profit taker which have things I wanted/still need and obviously they are best for rep and profit is amazing for credits with a booster and a team to kill it in like 3 mins.

basically I am just saying that there is already so much in the game right now and will be god knows how much more in the future that the bigger picture here is that if we have such a overwhelming amount to do in the game, it gets to a point where you feel like ( how am I going to have the time to catch up or ever get to the end game stuff) kind of thoughts lol. Not saying that it's bad if it can be done but if it gets to the point that it will take years then people would probably be like.... ok no thanks that is too much.

Edited by Toddrusel
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Some people here are infuriating to read. The lack of compassion and understanding for varying life circumstances and unwillingness to look at alternative implementations of the system to benefit more people, just because they like how things are (and don't think it should change)... this level of callous disregard baffles my mind.

I'm on track to get mid-rank (30) easily by the end of Nightwave, missing 2 elite weeklies each week and hunting down as many fugitives as I can. (Rank...14 right now?) I shouldn't be able to do this, since I work 2 jobs, but I'm carving time out of my sleep schedule, (going to bed around 1am, waking at 6am, working the entire time between the 2 jobs some days, with a 30min lunch - though I usually get two mornings off each week) and probably getting sick in the process - because I want those exclusive rewards, and I don't know when my schedule or health will demand that I not play during any given week - forfeiting those rewards that I've sacrificed so much for to get so far if I miss those points near the end that I can't work toward getting right now. (it hasn't been "hard" per se, but I can't keep this up season after season after season after season after season after season after season)

I got more benefit out of the Alert system than Nightwave, because when I did get a chance to jump on, I could hit those quick alerts and be done with it... now it's a constant slog of rep grinding doing things that I didn't plan to do, or already did a previous week and don't want to do again, using resources saved up and planned for using. Instead of a single mission for each reward, now, all my time is essentially spent on Nightwave, HOPING I can get all the rep I need for the ranks, just for 300 cred without venturing into Prestige ranks - and I'm not altering my schedule for wolf creds like I have for the exclusives.

(Ayatan sculptures I actually had, since I explore maps fully most days, but Forma? Yeah, not wasting on that. Gilding? I made a Kitgun for it, since I still needed a rattleguts... but now? certainly don't want that "challenge" to pop up again. Silvergrove spectres? My friend and I just used up my supply of extra apothics last week farming an aura mod for him... and NOW it pops up as a challenge? funny... real funny. Now I'm hoarding everything in fear that it will be a Nightwave challenge next week, rather than engaging with that content because I WANT to.)

Nightwave has a LOT of room for improvement, especially for those who it's supposedly built to HELP, but seems more like it's HURTing. Alerts need to come back, at the very least. If they're incorporated into Nightwave, all the better. I'm so happy I did so much with Alerts while they still existed. Got all the Nitain I will ever need, all the cosmetic helmets, all the alert blueprints, all the Aura Mods I wanted, all the Nightmare mods I wanted, with a few to give to friends who I'm trying to invite to the game... all in 1 year of playing. Nightwave and its wolfcred shop can't compare. The amount of effort they expect from people now feels like an insult to our time spent, at least in my case (I don't care what other grinds exist, this is in context of Nightwave replacing Alerts as a supposed improvement).

Alerts were essential to my new game experience. Their removal hurts the game for newbies (and my current fun).

Nightwave is clearly aimed at mid-endgame players. It all but directly tells newbies to go away. By presenting challenges well outside their reach within a 1 week period, they don't incentivize reaching out for new goals, rather with the time limit looming in the distance, it demotivates and discourages people from thinking it's worth bothering at all, if they can't get even the minimum needed for just mid-rank of 30 for just the exclusive rewards, let alone the prestige ranks and the stuff from the cred shop.

 

It's failing all but the people who have plenty of time to play, plenty of resources to squander when told to do so, and people who revel in watching others be unable to complete things they can, giving themselves a nice big ego stroke.

That's my impression and experience with it so far.

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3 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I see 60% a lot lately, but wasn't it 68% before? Those two numbers aren't the same.

We don't know exactly how long season one will be. All the folks saying it's easy to know if you've done enough each week are basing that on a tweet or something that mentioned 10ish weeks...there's nothing in-game to actually tell you how long you have to reach rank 30. I'm guessing 11 weeks, minimum...DE hasn't mention an exact season length yet have they...I don't follow twitter?

It's pretty clear that the current NW presentation isn't cutting it given the number of complaints about having to skip individual chores, I don't understand why anyone would be against suggestions to try to improve it, but clearly some folks just like to be contrarian.

The other thing to take into account is human nature. If there is a check box and a possibility to get rewards faster by checking it off, people will want to do it. I get that some folks understand they can skip stuff, doesn't mean that it wouldn't behoove DE to make NW look and feel less like weekly must do chores. It's also not a good idea for folks to do the minimum each week just in case the last couple weeks have stuff you can't do for whatever reason.

So, yeah...some sort of "Congratulations, you've done enough chores this week and are on track to reach rank 30, go have fun now" would be good.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

Some people here are infuriating to read. The lack of compassion and understanding for varying life circumstances and unwillingness to look at alternative implementations of the system to benefit more people, just because they like how things are (and don't think it should change)... this level of callous disregard baffles my mind.

- plus all the rest -

 

academy awards yes GIF by Shalita Grant

Edited by Enialyx
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1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 All of the conditions of nightwave are unnecessary to some extent. Consider the same argument applied to the other challenges:

Killing x enemies with a damage type is virtually guaranteed once we mod our weapon with it, so why don't they remove the need to waste time killing and just check the loadouts? 

 Doing x sorties per week is no more difficult than doing one and generally guaranteed once you get access to them, so why waste our time doing them? 

 Catching x fish takes nothing more than 1 bait of the type and a spear. I have both, so why force me to enter the free roam areas when you already know I can get it done? 

You see the trend in all of those? Each is objectively true, but rotates around an unwillingness to play that part the game as required to earn the standing.

If someone is unwilling to play a part of the game, that's fine. They can skip 13k standing each week and still hit maximum rank. I do it a lot. But they have no right to demand that the challenges which they could have completed without detriment to themselves, if they wished to. I have no sympathy for those who can, but won't. 



You can't really compare those conditions you listed to the "do ___ with friend" condition though. While I agree with you that all the above instances revolve around whether the player is willing to do them or not, because they already have access to said challenges and may do them at their leisure. The "do ___ with friend" condition isn't the however as it restricts player access, and it's the only condition that isn't gameplay related. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not constantly nagging on this issue because I'm worried that I'm not going to hit max rank. I'm hitting level 30 no problem. I just really believe these friend-gated challenges are unnecessary, and they punish players who don't want to add friends for the sake of adding friends (or those who just want to play them solo). Idk if you're ever going to change your stance on this, but this is my last say on this. I truly think Nightwave would benefit from removing these and replacing them with more unique and challenging conditions.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, gabuchan said:

You can't really compare those conditions you listed to the "do ___ with friend" condition though. While I agree with you that all the above instances revolve around whether the player is willing to do them or not, because they already have access to said challenges and may do them at their leisure. The "do ___ with friend" condition isn't the however as it restricts player access, and it's the only condition that isn't gameplay related. 

I am pretty sure that I can compare them because I did. 

And yes it is still a matter of, is the player willing to meet this condition. There is no FBI background check to see if the people who are currently on your friends list are known to you, or a condition of "someone who you have been friends with for the last 3 years", or "someone who is currently a friend and still will be at the end of the week. 

And as someone else pointed out, the main reason why many people have no active friends is their own unwillingness to add people who are active, to their friends list. And that is in an online, multiplayer game, where squad based play is encouraged, and mechanics have been in place for years to try and encourage you to work with others for the benefit of all. 

20 minutes ago, gabuchan said:

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not constantly nagging on this issue because I'm worried that I'm not going to hit max rank. I'm hitting level 30 no problem. I just really believe these friend-gated challenges are unnecessary, and they punish players who don't want to add friends for the sake of adding friends (or those who just want to play them solo).

Since when is it a punishment to not give people rewards that they didn't earn? As I pointed out, you could as easily make a case that all of the challenges have "unnecessary" conditions. This one is not unduly onerous in any way. Very few people are actually locked out of completing any of the challenges by this particular requirement as far as I can tell and they're mostly on Xbox and it's because they don't pay for the Xbox gold online service or whatever. 

As you just confirmed, we don't need those challenges to reach rank 30, so it's even more of a non-issue. 

20 minutes ago, gabuchan said:

Idk if you're ever going to change your stance on this, but this is my last say on this. I truly think Nightwave would benefit from removing these and replacing them with more unique and challenging conditions.

It is unlikely. I have no objection to more unique and challenging conditions being added, but I don't support the call for the removal of this one. 

 

Edited by (PS4)guzmantt1977
Minor correction

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