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[DE]Bear

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

As you just confirmed, we don't need those challenges to reach rank 30, so it's even more of a non-issue.   

Here's one last thing I don't agree with. Yep it's definitely not difficult to reach rank 30 as things are now, but it would definitely be beneficial for the player base to have less challenges that they'd rather skip.

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Posted (edited)

 

Although I do not really like nightwaves and the fact they replaced the alerts while they should both coexist, these changes below might make them more tolerable by me and by some other players who think of the nightwaves in a similar way.

1. each tier should be giving wolf creds, so for all kinds of players to be able to get what they want out of the offerings list as soon as possible, such as the core items (bps, auras, nitain), since the wolf creds and so forth will be reset on the 10th week. With a specific limit that can be obtained/extracted per week on each item available in the offerings list, though. Just so nobody to be stucking up hundreds on a specific item from there in a very short time. This limit should be under normal restrictions though, so not to become more of an annoyance. For instance a decent number of a nitain pack of 5 as a weekly restriction could be 2-3-4 times. So no more than 10-15-20 nitain per week.  If you come to think of it, this is what a normal kind of a player could get per week too, with the old system. 28 nitain per week was the max with the old alerts, but only if you did all nitain alerts. 

2. each week should consist of a lot more challenges, but to be able to only select and complete 3 elites, 5 weeklies and 5 dailies, alike, for example. So to have a choice between them all.

3. remove the restriction of some challenges demanding to be played with friends or clanmates. If we want to play with a friend or a clanmate we know the way, no need for the nightwaves to be telling us to do so.

4. go all the way in with the challenges. Add challenges of archwings, kdrives, caves, index, conclave, questlines and so forth and let's see how much players will like such challenges. The more choices between challenges, the better, though. (this could work nicely with the 2nd suggestion)

Thanks for reading.

 

Edited by No1Eye
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12 minutes ago, gabuchan said:

Here's one last thing I don't agree with. Yep it's definitely not difficult to reach rank 30 as things are now, but it would definitely be beneficial for the player base to have less challenges that they'd rather skip

But that is going to apply to pretty much all of the challenges, for some people. 

People complained about having to do a glyph, or an emote. People complained about hour long survivals. People complained about fishing because they never bothered to unlock the bait. And people even complained about not being able to bypass the whole shebang and just buy the rewards they want. 

DE already built in the relief mechanism when they set it up so we can get to rank 30 while skipping multiple challenges per week. 

My hope is that they look at the success and participation rates for each condition or challenge rather than just the complaints of a very vocal minority, to judge what the player base needs adjusted. 

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

We don't know exactly how long season one will be. All the folks saying it's easy to know if you've done enough each week are basing that on a tweet or something that mentioned 10ish weeks...there's nothing in-game to actually tell you how long you have to reach rank 30. I'm guessing 11 weeks, minimum...DE hasn't mention an exact season length yet have they...I don't follow twitter?

Not following the conversation ≠ we have not been told anything. You're right that we have not been told much in-game, but that said welcome to Warframe where that's the norm. I'd much rather see newbs get explanations for stuff that they need to know, than molly coddling a bunch of people who generally already know how the game works. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

So, yeah...some sort of "Congratulations, you've done enough chores this week and are on track to reach rank 30, go have fun now" would be good.

And how does that work out for people who have missed a week or two? Doesn't it just boil down to "we are currently in week X, if you are at rank 3X you're probably going to get to 30 (but no guarantees lol) if not, you probably need to get more stuff done asap... but only if you even care about those rewards at all"? And if so, is multiplication of integers between 1 and 10 by 3 really so difficult that we need them to build that in for us? 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And how does that work out for people who have missed a week or two? Doesn't it just boil down to "we are currently in week X, if you are at rank 3X you're probably going to get to 30 (but no guarantees lol) if not, you probably need to get more stuff done asap... but only if you even care about those rewards at all"? And if so, is multiplication of integers between 1 and 10 by 3 really so difficult that we need them to build that in for us? 

Do you know what computers are really good at...doing calculations. I don't even know what week we are on, I haven't been keeping track, 5 or 6? So yes, having the game that is already keeping track of the current NW week and also knows the current NW season length provide this little QoL enhancement is a good idea.

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Not following the conversation ≠ we have not been told anything. You're right that we have not been told much in-game, but that said welcome to Warframe where that's the norm.

The rest of the game is bad so new stuff should be equally bad, lol. You're too much.

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I'd much rather see newbs get explanations for stuff that they need to know, than molly coddling a bunch of people who generally already know how the game works. 

Good thing you aren't DE, you clearly would have trouble retaining players with that attitude. DE will evaluate how this first NW was received, whether it achieved their goals and adjust accordingly.

Edited by (PS4)Elvenbane
EDIT: Remove reason for silly theory.

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44 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Do you know what computers are really good at...doing calculations. I don't even know what week we are on, I haven't been keeping track, 5 or 6? So yes, having the game that is already keeping track of the current NW week and also knows the current NW season length provide this little QoL enhancement is a good idea.

The rest of the game is bad so new stuff should be equally bad, lol. You're too much.

Good thing you aren't DE, you clearly would have trouble retaining players with that attitude. DE will evaluate how this first NW was received, whether it achieved their goals and adjust accordingly.

Huh. That's weird. You seem to have cut two of those quotes in half. I wonder why? 

Know what the group with the highest rate of attrition amongst players is warframe is? According to the numbers I've seen on Steam, it's newbs. 

My suggestion was that if limited resources need to be allocated, trying to do stuff to actually help keep the newbs in the game makes more sense than sinecures for more experienced players who apparently haven't been following along with what's been going on, and don't want to just multiply by 3.

 

And regarding that very last sentence:

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

My hope is that they look at the success and participation rates for each condition or challenge rather than just the complaints of a very vocal minority, to judge what the player base needs adjusted

It was just above the stuff that you were quoting from. 

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8 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Huh. That's weird. You seem to have cut two of those quotes in half. I wonder why? 

I edited my post, happy? Don't read too much into things, I'm happy to let your words speak for themselves, I'm just quickly snipping phrases as response placeholders.

10 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

It was just above the stuff that you were quoting from. 

Not the same thing. Happy players == Happy DE...I hope they do take player complaints about NW into consideration...vocal minority or not.

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I would like to have a bit more open info on how long we have to get to rank 30, and what happens to the 30 ranks if another nightwave series is implemented. Do we stick to rank 26 for example, and just progress from there? If so, would there be an option to just tackle the second 30 ranks instead of the first? People are anxious to not get some of the parts and rewards they want...

I actually enjoyed the Ayatan Sculpture thing, because I had some of them lying around and was done in a few clicks. But I imagine this one had been a nuisance for many players...

Just avoid making people feel regret or aparently even slight panic every time they consider not doing a nightwave quest.

And a constant influx of Wolf Cred standing after each completed nightwave quest would certainly be more welcome than getting 50 wolf cred on predefined levels. if you want 5 Nitain right now, it doesnt help to know that if you do all quests this week AND next week, you can buy 15 of them...

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

I edited my post, happy? Don't read too much into things, I'm happy to let your words speak for themselves, I'm just quickly snipping phrases as response placeholders.

Did I? I was just wondering how come the sentences got clipped. I have that problem on mobile sometimes and have to go back and edit it. What did you think I meant?

But yeah it's much better now that the whole sentences are there. Avoids any confusion, don't you think? 

2 hours ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Not the same thing. Happy players == Happy DE...I hope they do take player complaints about NW into consideration...vocal minority or not.

Oh sure, but player actions always speak louder. Because as someone pointed out quite a while ago, happy players are usually too busy playing, to be whining about how much they hate being asked to play the game. 

That's why having statistics about how many people attempted the challenges vs how many refrained, and how many successful attempts vs how many attempts will allow them to refine what challenges they are OK with. Because a happy playerbase = happy DE 

Remember, the forums and reddit are a minority of the players. We may not be a good representation of the playerbase. If a small number of people are complaining about playing with friends and clanmates but the vast majority of the player base realises that it's no big deal, or only a tiny percentage of us completed the fishing challenge, or only 20 people bothered to do the emote challenge... Pandering to the few at the expense of the many isn't going to be a great idea. 

 

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23 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh sure, but player actions always speak louder. Because as someone pointed out quite a while ago, happy players are usually too busy playing, to be whining about how much they hate being asked to play the game. 

That's why having statistics about how many people attempted the challenges vs how many refrained, and how many successful attempts vs how many attempts will allow them to refine what challenges they are OK with. Because a happy playerbase = happy DE  

A common problem with this method of using "numbers" to deduce happiness... is that you don't know how people feel while completing tasks.

People could feel they HAVE to do it, so they do it, but they're not happy about it. It doesn't make it a good part of the game.

The only way to really know, is for us to tell DE here on the forums (officially), or answer a questionaire about it, where we can reveal our real feelings about it.

Many people remain silent about things, thinking nothing they say will matter anyway, so why bother? Why risk being ridiculed by people on the forums for needing to "git gud" over something that has nothing to do with getting good. Amongst a whole host of other reasons I could list, none of which are "they're happily playing because they love it."

One thing about forum-goers, is that they generally care enough about the game to want it to be a better game that they go to the trouble of posting at all. It's valuable feedback.

Of course, DE could just bury their heads in the sand and keep releasing content, changing nothing, hoping the unhappy people just go away or "live with it"... (it seems to have worked for other games)

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On 2019-03-04 at 3:47 PM, [DE]Bear said:
  • Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.
  • Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.
  • Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

Ayatans are not RNG dependent.  Any player can run relics and sell the parts for ducat prices in the very least.  They can then use that plat to get ayatans that are empty, or if they are more involved they can just join a clan and ask a memeber that has 500 of them sitting around if they can have some to do the challenge.  Many older players just give stuff away to clan mates on the regular because it does nothing for us but helps newer players.

Survival challenges being too long complaint is missing the point of the challenge.  Not everyone is a player of 20 min increments.  Much of the point of nightwave from a design perspective is to get people to experience stuff outside of their comfort zone.  While this challenge(s) was easy for me, I assume it was hard for other players.  They have the option of joining a group that can carry them, since many people just run 1 hour endurance for fun and would appreciate having others around to carry since it means more mobs and extra challenge to keep them alive.  Failing to use trade chat to find a group for this is a failure of the player, not the design.  I have had challenges in nightwave for content I don't really enjoy too, but I get that the point is to keep all the content relevant.  This week is an excellent example with apothics.  The last time I looked at them was farming titania and I haven't touched it since because scans are annoying to me.  But that doesn't make the challenge bad, it just means it's not my favorite.  I would do 500 survivals before wanting to do apothics, but here I am, doing apothics.  The design aspect of forcing players into different content IS working, but players are too entitled to understand the value of that and figure that if they cry hard enough DE will hand them everything on a plate, which is probably what is going to happen, like almost always.

As far as friend challenges go.  That's easy to fix.  hop on trade chat.  LF nightwave friend challenge X.  Join group, add, do challenge.  I have 100s of friends and run a huge clan too, but I chose to do it this way just to show that it's 100% easy.  Took me about 15 seconds to get a friend to do the exploiter orb.  I chose that one rather than an easier one because the content is less accessible so it should, in theory, be harder to find a friend for it than just a simple survival or sortie.

In short, these three complaints have no merit and are simply whiney and entitled players.

The actual issues with nightwave are this:

Mute button for nora is needed.

Also the old alerts provided options for resource bundles that were helpful to newer players.  Having them back would really help newer players have options on how to complete challenges, making nightwave a possibility, which I think is important since not all new players can complete all nightwave content.  Pulling the cosmetics out is fine though, but the nitain, that really needs to be available like it was, that and oxium and other stuff new players really need to farm.

Outside of that solution, the umbral forma grind is absurd.

1 every three months.  Just to outfit equipment used most (5 frames, 1 weapon) that would take over 4 years of grind.  Not that we need it since there is no content to support the current power level of the game, making umbral forma not only an absurd grind, but also unnecessary power creep.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

The actual issues with nightwave are this:

Mute button for nora is needed.

 

 

Mute button for nora is hidden in transmission volume setting. You get used to not having them... I dont think I will ever activate them again outside of storyline quests in the future.

 

As for RNG in sculptures: Yes it can depend on RNG. If you dont have any lying around that are not filled, actually finding 3 sculptures in only one week isnt super reliable... I certainly dont find 3 per week. You get one out of the weekly hunt. And then? Then its good luck or trade channel...

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

As far as friend challenges go.  That's easy to fix.  hop on trade chat.  LF nightwave friend challenge X.  Join group, add, do challenge.

So did this greatly improve the experience for you? What if you'd been able to do one the following, how would that have changed things?

- Hop on trade chat recruiting.  LF nightwave friend challenge X.  Join group, add, do challenge.

- Do challenge solo

Folks with WF friends are still free to play with them right? Why should temp friending someone be necessary, it's just silly. It's not that it's not easily done (assuming you have XBox live gold and can actually play with others) it's that it shouldn't be required as it's just an annoying hoop to jump through.

Edited by (PS4)Elvenbane

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1 hour ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

A common problem with this method of using "numbers" to deduce happiness... is that you don't know how people feel while completing tasks.

People could feel they HAVE to do it, so they do it, but they're not happy about it. It doesn't make it a good part of the game.

The only way to really know, is for us to tell DE here on the forums (officially), or answer a questionaire about it, where we can reveal our real feelings about it.

Well here's the thing... We don't have to do it. At the very beginning of nightwave I remember praising someone who opted out, not because they can't do it the challenges, but because they didn't really want the rewards, and didn't feel like doing the challenges. 

They didn't whine about it, they didn't try to demand the rewards without playing, they didn't act offended about not being able to buy their way to success. 

I saw another like that today when someone finally clued in to the fact that they just didn't feel like doing it, and suddenly realised that there's not anything forcing them to try and complete the challenges. 

And sadly there are times when what people say they want really isn't what they want. We recently had an "I'm sorry for asking for individual extraction, and now I realise that it was a really bad idea". (And in case anyone is wondering no I'm not talking about Brexit here.) So no, vocal minorities don't always represent the good of the majority (long dead Greek philosopher said the same thing about democracy). 

Player numbers at least show you how many of us were willing to do something, and rapid drop offs in those numbers would be a good way to tell that people didn't enjoy it. An overly high failure rate can tell us that it's not going to be a good idea for a regular challenge. 

Quote

Many people remain silent about things, thinking nothing they say will matter anyway, so why bother? Why risk being ridiculed by people on the forums for needing to "git gud" over something that has nothing to do with getting good. Amongst a whole host of other reasons I could list, none of which are "they're happily playing because they love it."

Cuts both ways, doesn't it? How many people do you think would like to tell folks in this thread that what they're saying is wrong, but see how the few of us disagreeing are being responded to? 

Or are being mislead by the people parroting bogus information from a "the sky is falling" reddit post made very early on in the system?

And no, I don't know either. That's why the numbers are far more important than just who can scream the most vehemently. If the vast majority are doing it, and keep on doing it, it is a good sign that they're not doing much wrong. 

Quote

One thing about forum-goers, is that they generally care enough about the game to want it to be a better game that they go to the trouble of posting at all. It's valuable feedback.

Again cuts both ways. And in the discussion, there was a newb who was messed up thinking that a lot of what he saw people saying is something that he needed to worry about. We talked about it and I made some suggestions that I hope help him to focus on the stuff that will make the most difference in his ability to play through the star chart. Once he wasn't freaking out about stuff like elite challenges, he seemed to realise that there's a lot that he can get done along the way.

Likewise there was a long-term veteran reeing about how long it takes to farm forma and how it is impossible to complete the 3 forma challenge in a week. The math they presented demonstrates that they were doing it all in what may be the very slowest possible way. Again I made some suggestions as to how he could have easily gotten the forma in a tiny fraction of the time. 

Yeah they both cared about what he was saying, but a lot of what what each was saying was factually wrong. 

Quote

Of course, DE could just bury their heads in the sand and keep releasing content, changing nothing, hoping the unhappy people just go away or "live with it"... (it seems to have worked for other games)

Or they can access multiple levels of feedback, and hopefully act in a way that benefits the whole community, instead of always rushing to appease whoever is screeching at any given moment. 

 

1 hour ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Ayatans are not RNG dependent.  Any player can run relics and sell the parts for ducat prices in the very least.  They can then use that plat to get ayatans that are empty, or if they are more involved they can just join a clan and ask a memeber that has 500 of them sitting around if they can have some to do the challenge.  Many older players just give stuff away to clan mates on the regular because it does nothing for us but helps newer players.

100% this. 

I didn't do it, but only because I couldn't be bothered to go buy any ayatans at the time. I didn't need those points and don't regret my decision to skip it. 

 

Even the forma challenge could have been sped up by this method as was pointed out so long ago. 

At this stage you'd sort of have to question the validity of some of the issues people claim to have with the challenges. The entire point of the event seems to be a to get people to try things that some people wouldn't normally do. And for the majority of players it's probably doing just that. 

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13 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Well, you know, we did the math.

You don't like being told what to do and how to do it...
oh my god wtf GIF

You play a game with set mission types and set rewards for those missions. Sorties are a set of 3 specific missions each day.

You can't do certain quests unless you have certain MR.

You can't use certain Weapons, unless you have certain MR.

You can't use certain Riven mods unless you have certain MR. Rivens have set rules on things you have to do to unlock them. Have you never unlocked a Riven?

You can't trade until you are MR2.

Specific elements are more effective against different enemies. 

I could go on and on with an almost endless list of ways this game tells you what to do and how to do it

Everything about this game is telling you what to do and how to do it. Why do you play? Do you just log in and sit in region chat for 6 hours?

I don't think I've been MR restricted from anything since, like... 2014 or something? Was never significant.

Never been MR restricted from quests before tbqh.

Same with rivens.

MR2 is like, "you're not a bot I guess" MR.

You aren't forced to not use other elements.

 

It's like you don't even understand the basic concepts being discussed. Are you just trolling?

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10 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

All of the conditions of nightwave are unnecessary to some extent. Consider the same argument applied to the other challenges:

Killing x enemies with a damage type is virtually guaranteed once we mod our weapon with it, so why don't they remove the need to waste time killing and just check the loadouts? 

Doing x sorties per week is no more difficult than doing one and generally guaranteed once you get access to them, so why waste our time doing them? 

Catching x fish takes nothing more than 1 bait of the type and a spear. I have both, so why force me to enter the free roam areas when you already know I can get it done? 

You see the trend in all of those? Each is objectively true, but rotates around an unwillingness to play that part the game as required to earn the standing.

If someone is unwilling to play a part of the game, that's fine. They can skip 13k standing each week and still hit maximum rank. I do it a lot. But they have no right to demand that the challenges which they could have completed without detriment to themselves, if they wished to. I have no sympathy for those who can, but won't. 

 

BTW, I have a solo clan, I let people join from time to time, so they can get what they need and split, everyone who is still a member is inactive but I don't bother to kick them out. I don't have any issue with the "with a friend / clan mate" requirement. 

Tide comes in, tide goes out, never a miscommunication, you can't explain that. Am I right? 

BTW, your "MATH" might be useless for those things because you don't know what "MATHS" is please check the OED for a definition: 

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/maths

😁

Ooh numbers, where you get those numbers from? They look vintage, like 4 weeks ago, back in the dark ages when people were not as informed and pulling numbers out of thin air. 

Just do the maths for yourself and you'll be able to figure it out. Or go back over the thread and you'll find explanations for how the initial calculation of 300k / 430k has been revised based on the fact that the devs keep referring to the week number and it seems to be disregarding that first short week. Also, and this must be the millionth time I've said it, the original 70% estimate completely failed to take convicts into consideration. Some people seem to be about 2 ranks ahead of where they should be, and that's because of the standing from the convicts. That's a lot. 

 

That depends entirely on where they currently are in their rankings. Someone who missed a week or two can't just aim for 30k/week and expect to complete.

You and I probably don't have the same standing right now, that's going to be true across the board for the playerbase. There's not going to be a one size fits all "yeah you're good for the week mate". 

Someone who did every challenge and earned a couple of ranks extra from convicts, can go on a 2 week vacation at this point if they want to. It's not rocket science. 

And

Doesn't work out to the benefit of players as a whole. You're really asking every player to forsake all possibilities of rewards from future nightwave seasons, in the hopes that some players (who may never bother to earn the rewards anyway) have a chance to complete the current tier list. That's what your proposal changes for the people who are going to be able to get it done by the last week. 

If a player cannot max out the ranking this season, they will be able to try again next season when they may be better prepared. Why is that a problem? 

 

Even 60% minimum participation rate for the rest of the game is insanely high. That's the smallest amount of time you can play to get everything, forever. never mind events, content dumps, ect.

But you keep ignoring that because it's inconvenient I guess?

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can the extra target of the series, in this one the fugitives, give a  bonus standing based on the rank you are? Like +10 every 3 or 5 ranks. Or something like that?

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It is odd how some are making a bonus mechanic in the game and pretend it was a primary focus to get their 20th mag hat. I too would like to see seasonal challenges but now that we see some challenges will be repeated that looks to be less likely... Hopefully the tutorial revamp will include episode challenges designed to show new players there is more to the game than alerts. We still have alerts though. Fissure missions, syndicate missions..new players have junctions to unlock ,their tenno to unlock and resources to mine...the first six quest are essential to understand what ya need.the old BONUS system did not offer warframe and weappon slots. I started in decenber and not once did i see a reactor award...nightwave lets you progress while doing stuff you want or should be doing.

We still get gift of the lotus missions that offer much better rewards .also invasions, index and sorties ....kuuva missions , nightmare, void missions,vault runs, etc.and while you can say newplayers cant do all those...they will/should be in their first 3 to 6 months.varying by playtime.

I also dont get the idea that pugs are looked down upon when pugs are the bread and butter of warframe...really until yuo get to arbitration and higher events the downside to pugs is very minil and you get to see a variety of frames and weapons at work.

One thing i like about nightwaveshop is that without changing the staples they can rotate the weapon and skin offering so everyone isnt running around sporting identical looks..

Almost forgot battle pay for invasions.  

What i see is newer players getting bad advice.  They dont need a specic warframe for each mission type..they dont need forma everything at once..

The idea that being able to farm prime gear while essentially getting credit towards free slots and potatoes is a detriment as opposed to the old alert system is silly at best

 

 

 

.

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26 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Even 60% minimum participation rate for the rest of the game is insanely high. That's the smallest amount of time you can play to get everything, forever. never mind events, content dumps, ect.

But you keep ignoring that because it's inconvenient I guess?

ummmm....

dude... lets say you only get what's necessary, not cosmetics.  You don't ever need umbral forma, they are unnecessary power creep and the game can be played blindfolded without them as is.  The last cred reward is 24.    Assuming you aren't prestiging because you aren't a try hard, that's 240k, spread over 11 weeks, but lets say 10 because easier math and you take a week off to do anything else.

That means you need 24 per week.  

Daily challenges are super easy, but lets say you are lazy as all get out and you only get 4 per week.  That's 20k.

Now you need 20k, so you have to then do 1 5k challenge, and 5 3k challenges, also assuming you never ever capture any of the doodz.

Now lets say you suck horribly and you can't do those challenges solo because you suck really really bad.

You now go onto recruit chat and literally ask anyone to carry you because you suck and then get the assistance after 1 min or so. 

So, assuming you suck terribly, are lazy and don't complete everything, and that you can't do certain stuff because it's locked out for you still, you still have every opportunity to get all the cred and stuff you need from the reward pool.  We're literally already catering to the weakest possible link here.

So who does this really suck for?

If you are brand new, lazy, and don't want advance, and refuse to ask for help and/or learn anything, then yes, nightwave is bad for you and I'm not even sorry that I'm not sorry.  For literally everyone else it's totally doable.

If on the other hand, you're super casual, and don't grind warframe like it's your life/job, then guess what?  You don't get the cosmetic rewards that literally everyone who does that gets, and that's fair, you need to recognize you're a casual and you aren't the same as the elite try hards, and that might bruise your ego, but my response to that is, "GOOD".

Will everyone get the armor set?  No.  Is it at all necessary to play the game?  Also no.

There are problems with nightwave, but failing to be able to do everything all the time is not the failing of nightwave.  The main issue is the removal of the old alerts leaves players in bad shape to regularly earn rewards to move forward, nitain being the worst offender, but literally all of the old resource bundles were good for newer players.

 

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32 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Even 60% minimum participation rate for the rest of the game is insanely high. That's the smallest amount of time you can play to get everything, forever. never mind events, content dumps, ect.

But you keep ignoring that because it's inconvenient I guess?

Time? None of those percentages implies time. Especially since, as we've seen repeatedly, many challenges synergise. The 3x3x3x3 was beautiful because it corresponded to the open 10 relics. How long did it take to do both hour long challenges? For many, 1 hour. 

All of those work well with kill enemies using x. 

Again a modicum of thought on the player's part and the mountains you're worried about become mole hills. 

And again the smallest amount I can play is zero hours. I'm playing because I am hoping to get something very specific that I currently need to earn in order to get it. I understand that there are some who feel that they should get things without earning them, and others who are having trouble believing that they can't just buy their stairway to heaven. 

Now since you are claiming that how long it takes us is the issue here, let me ask you a very unpleasant question.... If you were to apply yourself, how long do you think you would take to get the 30k standing for the week using the most efficient tactics available to you? 

Again, that's the least time required for you to get 30k standing? 

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15 minutes ago, (XB1)Tornicade said:

It is odd how some are making a bonus mechanic in the game and pretend it was a primary focus to get their 20th mag hat. I too would like to see seasonal challenges but now that we see some challenges will be repeated that looks to be less likely... Hopefully the tutorial revamp will include episode challenges designed to show new players there is more to the game than alerts. We still have alerts though. Fissure missions, syndicate missions..new players have junctions to unlock ,their tenno to unlock and resources to mine...the first six quest are essential to understand what ya need.the old BONUS system did not offer warframe and weappon slots. I started in decenber and not once did i see a reactor award...nightwave lets you progress while doing stuff you want or should be doing.

We still get gift of the lotus missions that offer much better rewards .also invasions, index and sorties ....kuuva missions , nightmare, void missions,vault runs, etc.and while you can say newplayers cant do all those...they will/should be in their first 3 to 6 months.varying by playtime.

I also dont get the idea that pugs are looked down upon when pugs are the bread and butter of warframe...really until yuo get to arbitration and higher events the downside to pugs is very minil and you get to see a variety of frames and weapons at work.

One thing i like about nightwaveshop is that without changing the staples they can rotate the weapon and skin offering so everyone isnt running around sporting identical looks..

Almost forgot battle pay for invasions.  

What i see is newer players getting bad advice.  They dont need a specic warframe for each mission type..they dont need forma everything at once..

The idea that being able to farm prime gear while essentially getting credit towards free slots and potatoes is a detriment as opposed to the old alert system is silly at best

 

 

 

.

The main advantage to the old system was the accessibility of nitain, otherwise all other complaints are nonsense.

That said, you're totally right that players don't "need" everything. 

You can play all of the game's content levels with 0 forma on excal.  Granted, it's easier if you have god tier rivens and more frames to do more stuff and functionally unlimited resources, but that doesn't make it impossible.

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Time? None of those percentages implies time. Especially since, as we've seen repeatedly, many challenges synergise. The 3x3x3x3 was beautiful because it corresponded to the open 10 relics. How long did it take to do both hour long challenges? For many, 1 hour. 

All of those work well with kill enemies using x. 

Again a modicum of thought on the player's part and the mountains you're worried about become mole hills. 

And again the smallest amount I can play is zero hours. I'm playing because I am hoping to get something very specific that I currently need to earn in order to get it. I understand that there are some who feel that they should get things without earning them, and others who are having trouble believing that they can't just buy their stairway to heaven. 

Now since you are claiming that how long it takes us is the issue here, let me ask you a very unpleasant question.... If you were to apply yourself, how long do you think you would take to get the 30k standing for the week using the most efficient tactics available to you? 

Again, that's the least time required for you to get 30k standing? 

A minimum amount of time can be inferred, and a login pattern requirement is stated by the participation requirement, which is what makes Nightwave so awful. If it was a new grindy content dump every 10 weeks, I don't think many people would would much mind. As it is now, it's pretty awful.

13 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

ummmm....

dude... lets say you only get what's necessary, not cosmetics.  You don't ever need umbral forma, they are unnecessary power creep and the game can be played blindfolded without them as is.  The last cred reward is 24.    Assuming you aren't prestiging because you aren't a try hard, that's 240k, spread over 11 weeks, but lets say 10 because easier math and you take a week off to do anything else.

That means you need 24 per week.  

Daily challenges are super easy, but lets say you are lazy as all get out and you only get 4 per week.  That's 20k.

Now you need 20k, so you have to then do 1 5k challenge, and 5 3k challenges, also assuming you never ever capture any of the doodz.

Now lets say you suck horribly and you can't do those challenges solo because you suck really really bad.

You now go onto recruit chat and literally ask anyone to carry you because you suck and then get the assistance after 1 min or so. 

So, assuming you suck terribly, are lazy and don't complete everything, and that you can't do certain stuff because it's locked out for you still, you still have every opportunity to get all the cred and stuff you need from the reward pool.  We're literally already catering to the weakest possible link here.

So who does this really suck for?

If you are brand new, lazy, and don't want advance, and refuse to ask for help and/or learn anything, then yes, nightwave is bad for you and I'm not even sorry that I'm not sorry.  For literally everyone else it's totally doable.

If on the other hand, you're super casual, and don't grind warframe like it's your life/job, then guess what?  You don't get the cosmetic rewards that literally everyone who does that gets, and that's fair, you need to recognize you're a casual and you aren't the same as the elite try hards, and that might bruise your ego, but my response to that is, "GOOD".

Will everyone get the armor set?  No.  Is it at all necessary to play the game?  Also no.

There are problems with nightwave, but failing to be able to do everything all the time is not the failing of nightwave.  The main issue is the removal of the old alerts leaves players in bad shape to regularly earn rewards to move forward, nitain being the worst offender, but literally all of the old resource bundles were good for newer players.

 

Saying power creep isn't necessary is like saying playing the game in the first place isn't necessary. Why even play a progression based game that's introducing newer S#&$ all the time?

 

Umbra Forma shouldn't even be in the game, but now it is.

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3 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

A minimum amount of time can be inferred, and a login pattern requirement is stated by the participation requirement, which is what makes Nightwave so awful. If it was a new grindy content dump every 10 weeks, I don't think many people would would much mind. As it is now, it's pretty awful.

Oh but you've completely skipped the question haven't you? 

17 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Now since you are claiming that how long it takes us is the issue here, let me ask you a very unpleasant question.... If you were to apply yourself, how long do you think you would take to get the 30k standing for the week using the most efficient tactics available to you? 

Again, that's the least time required for you to get 30k standing? 

Either it's an unacceptably long time required for you to complete the standing per week, or it really is a minimum amount of time. 

So, since I am really trying to understand your current complaint, I'm very curious to know which it is in your case. We're all coming at this from different places, it's possible that it truly is onerous because it takes you so very long. Or perhaps you just have a very unusually low weekly tolerance for playing warframe. 

If you tell us how long it would take you, then we all have a better concept of where you are coming from. 

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The great irony here is that this is a feedback thread. Specifically made by DE staff to hear people's opinions. 

And the DE Defense Force thinks they're doing a service to DE by shooting negative opinions down.

frustrated the x files GIF

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Yeah, flat out its a time tax with a time limit, with forced game modes I probably -dont- want to play.
Its a grinding game, so YES, I want the rewards.
Yes, Im willing to play and grind for them.
No, I dont want to be told when and how to grind, and thats the choice that was removed by adding NW.

Anyone can enjoy it if they like.
It doesnt mean plenty of us DONT like it, and have summarily removed their time and support from DE.

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