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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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1 minute ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Explaining to players how they have misunderstood how things work so they have no cause for their concerns has every place in a feedback thread.

There's plenty of cause for concerns, which is why there's so much negative feedback for nightwave. Brushing it under the carpet won't make things better.

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3 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

There's plenty of cause for concerns, which is why there's so much negative feedback for nightwave. Brushing it under the carpet won't make things better.

And as I've said, and has been done many times in this thread. Their cause for concern often comes from a mistaken understanding of how Nightwave and ranking up works. it is obvious when they post and list things that are fundamentally wrong in their understanding of Night Wave. Like the guy wanting one check mark, or the guy wanting Elite Activities when we had elite activities. Or people who simply didn't do the math on how many points they could get a week.

At this point, you're the one trying his hardest to derail the thread. Since nothing you have posted in the last week has actually been anything other than labelling other trolls, and painting them as trying to derail the thread.

Now, will you answer my question I asked several hours ago about What exactly in Warframe is not a chore to you? As so far you seem to think everything in Nightwave is a chore.

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3 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Months? Nightwave launched on Feburary 27. It has only been 1 month and 2 days. How have you been playing it for months?

Wow, are you picking every posts in this thread, Mr. God of War?
But thanks for pointing out, anyway. English is not my language and I'm still learning it, so being corrected is very welcome.
I hope at least you got my point.

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27 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Explaining to players how they have misunderstood how things work so they have no cause for their concerns has every place in a feedback thread.

Actually it doesn't. It's good feedback for DE that the NW presentation is leading folks to erroneous conclusions and should perhaps be addressed.

Regardless DE is more than capable of evaluating feedback and if there are player misconceptions it's their place to correct them, it's not the job of the peanut gallery.

For future feedback threads I'd like to see a 1 post policy. If changes are made or they just want to see how people feel after some time has passed a follow up thread can be created.

I don't enjoy having to ignore people, but the noise in this important thread has gotten out of control. But maybe these feedback threads are only created as lightning rods for malcontents and not actual feedback...

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30 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

And as I've said, and has been done many times in this thread. Their cause for concern often comes from a mistaken understanding of how Nightwave and ranking up works. it is obvious when they post and list things that are fundamentally wrong in their understanding of Night Wave. Like the guy wanting one check mark, or the guy wanting Elite Activities when we had elite activities. Or people who simply didn't do the math on how many points they could get a week.

At this point, you're the one trying his hardest to derail the thread. Since nothing you have posted in the last week has actually been anything other than labelling other trolls, and painting them as trying to derail the thread.

Now, will you answer my question I asked several hours ago about What exactly in Warframe is not a chore to you? As so far you seem to think everything in Nightwave is a chore.

But that was never the issue, was it? And then here you are, setting up stupid bait questions to try and trap out an answer that suits you, despite having answered this several times already.

What isn't a chore is whatever I want to do at that time. What is a chore is all the things I don't want to do, but am obligated to by design. In other words, the vast majority of Warframe's content, on it's own, is not a chore. What is a chore is forcing players to play this or that specific thing lest they miss out on some time limited reward. And since everything about nightwave is both time-gated and expires, nightwave is a series of chores by design. This is a bad thing, and was a bad thing when every other game did it.

Again, even though I've already explained it before. Not that you'll remember it in a page or two, because it would be inconvenient to recognize that there are legitimate concerns with how horrible nightwave is by design, and that it's not just a bunch of kids jumping on the complain train to feel included.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Actually it doesn't. It's good feedback for DE that the NW presentation is leading folks to erroneous conclusions and should perhaps be addressed.

Regardless DE is more than capable of evaluating feedback and if there are player misconceptions it's their place to correct them, it's not the job of the peanut gallery.

For future feedback threads I'd like to see a 1 post policy. If changes are made or they just want to see how people feel after some time has passed a follow up thread can be created.

I don't enjoy having to ignore people, but the noise in this important thread has gotten out of control. But maybe these feedback threads are only created as lightning rods for malcontents and not actual feedback...

Actually, that's a really good idea; everyone gets one post to make their point, and if they decide to change their mind or expand on it after reading other complaints, they can edit the post. Clean, organized feedback, instead of silly derailment pissing contests about who's opinion is more realer.

It probably would have helped if the feedback thread for the Lunaro update was like that, since it really seemed like DE didn't understand the bug reports very well between all the bickering; double jumping after performing air parkour besides bullet jump still kills your speed inexplicably, and bullet double jump roll is still the fastest way to travel 99% of the time, reducing what was an intricate and fun movement system to something far more mundane and shallow, for no good reason, especially since the bug they were trying to fix was caused by being able to jump out of a roll while in the air, which you still can't do on the ground, but for some reason still can do in the air.

But, then again, given that it has since been reported very clearly and they continue to ignore it, maybe all of this is just a convenient way of having an excuse to not listen to player feedback.

Edited by NezuHimeSama
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I would say a person's opinion is always correct for them.

There is no "you're wrong to not like that" reply that is correct here. (including perceptions of things that may not exist as things)

What I've seen done here, in "correcting" people, is adjusting their goals from what is presented in the game as what they should aspire to (mid-point of rank 30 was "expected", with everything beyond that being "prestige" ranks that they are not expected to get without putting in more than the usual effort),

Spoiler

(If people want to run with the whole "elite" tag on "elite challenges" and hold DE to their own inflated exaggerated opinion of what that should mean about the relative challenge they should hold, I'm going to hold them to "prestige" too.) It's silly to have to do that, but it is what it is.

to what is currently achievable by those people, so they no longer have expectations not being met. I wouldn't call that a good thing. The expectations of the Nightwave system was to replace Alerts and "make it better" for people with little time to play the game. In my experience, this has not happened, and in fact, Nightwave has made it worse for people with little time to play.

 

As I've said before, Nightwave is good in THEORY, but badly implemented, to fulfill the stated goals of the content. (replacing Alerts)

If Alerts continued as before, alongside Nightwave, I'd say 50% or more of the feedback against Nightwave, seen here, would not exist.

The other 50% that would remain, is in the intrinsic design of Nightwave being time-limited event-exlusive rewards with expiring currency (the rewards of which may come back in easier or more difficult to obtain ways at some vague future time, negating the argument to just wait for it to come around again - especially if that "way" to get them means getting prestige ranks in future Nightwaves, when it's hard enough now, for some just to reach the mid-point of 30 ranks.)

No arguments will change my mind on the failure of design present in what I see here. It's also not a plaintive cry from someone who won't get those rewards (I'm rank 18 already - slowly farming up a buffer in case there are a ton of stupid challenges I don't want to do or my schedule prevents me from playing later in the season), but I know many others are not so far along - and it is these people, and future me (in future seasons, with different future circumstances) that I am voicing these concerns for, to make this event better for MORE people, not just for who it's already good for, right now.

As it is, Nightwave is set up to be an EVENT, rather than a core game system. Limited time, limited rewards, progress disappearing at the end. And most events are just fine in Warframe, where people focus on the goals of that event for a short time, like 2 weeks... and then relax and go back to playing how they want to, with their own goals on their own timetables. Nightwave isn't just 2 weeks... it's 10 weeks, and if you don't put in enough effort every week, you stand to lose out on some of the rewards (or all of the rewards that matter to you) if you fail to put in the required time-frame dependent work.

 

Several things have been brought up that could fix these issues, and yes, they're ISSUES. And just telling people to "live with it" or "git good" or "skip it"... are all invalid for the discussion at hand.

 

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Posted (edited)
On ‎2019‎-‎03‎-‎04 at 10:47 PM, [DE]Bear said:

So at first pass, we are seeing some concerns rise to the top:

  • Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.
  • Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.
  • Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

I think the biggest problem is the basic premise of the alerts, that is if "everyone" should be able to do "everything" or not. The driving force behind "maxing" stuff is strong, so the current three-tier level system doesn't really work as a separator as most players try to do all missions regardless of being equipped or experienced enough to do them. This was especially apparent with the 1-hour missions, where you had a lot of players joining that barely could manage 20 minutes. Which is perfectly fine (trying out tougher missions), but which also was extremely irritating for higher MRs which did not want to rinse-and-repeat due to half the squad having dropped out at the half-time mark.

However, if the missions gets adapted for "everyone", everyone will actually end up with less. Less variation, less difficulty, less challenge. Less "good loot", since a system that just distributes good loot to "everyone" isn't possible. And all this in turn will lead to less interest, especially for more experienced players (who are in this just for the new goodies, since they already have all the other stuff).

I think giving in to the gripe and making everything easier and possible for everyone is exactly the wrong way to go. Instead it should be pushed into the other direction, keeping the tough missions and adding even tougher ones.

Commenting on the three mission types on the list:

  • my only gripe with the Ayatan mission was that it punished players that put stars inte their sculptures immediately (like me 🙂). I had around fifty already filled ayatan sculptures "in storage", so I had go out and get more (which is quite easy, since arbitrations run 24/7). However, my lazy friend had around 30 unfilled sculptures, so he just filled five of them. Overall I think it was a perfectly valid (and interesting) new mission type.
  • The survival challenges have been the best missions in the series so far, and finally something with a real bite to it. Super-great! I also think it is the player's own fault if they don't see the possibility of combining several challenges in one (which has become a sort of new and fun meta-challenge once a week).
  • this is the only one where I side with the complainers. I think it would be ok if players that are friends or clan members would get an additional in-mission buff (more damage, more shields, more something per friend/clan member in the squad), but forcing players to "make friends" or join a clan in order to be able to even take part in a mission is... well, it is actually quite "bad". 

I have to admit I didn't like this change at first, but now I think it could become something quite brilliant. I have a few suggestions...

  1. First of all, please kill the idea that everyone should be able to do all missions, and after killing it bury it somewhere where no-one will ever find it.
  2. The premise that not everyone can do everything should also be applied to more experienced players, by adding missioin where you have to select doing either the "easier" or the "harder" version (with some appropriate spread in standing to reflect the different difficulty level).
  3. One of the really nice things with the new system is that the mix of players in the missions has increased (even though this at the same time has been an irritant in the tougher missions). Mixing different experience and equipment levels is a very good thing, but I think it should be handled differently, by adding a mission type that is based on experience slots, for instance 1 slot for MR20+, 1 for MR15-MR20, 1 for MR10-MR15 and 1 for MR5-MR10. The mission would not start until every slot was filled by a player of appropriate level, and in order to facilitate cooperation it would not conclude successfully unless all four players extracted together. This forces higher MR players to actually help and support others, and at the same time allows lower MR players to play with "fully equipped" Lords of the Game, as well as to see in practice what fully forma'ed and modded weapons and warframes, arcanes, focus schools etc. can do.
  4. From the arbitration system I would adapt the idea of using specific warframes for specific missions, but expand on it to have a mission type where using certain warframes is mandatory. That is, unless you select one of the four(?) warframes defined for the mission, you can't join (like the weapon gate system in sorties). Both Primed and non-primed versions of the applicable warframe should of course be allowed.
  5. Instead of a mission type forcing the players to use a specific weapon (as in no. 4 above) I would like to see a mission type where Lotus provides the weaponry (pre-selected and pre-modded). Basically players can join the mission using any warframe, but have to use the pre-selected weaponry in-mission. This would have the double benefit of allowing players to test weapons and forcing players out of their "I always use this/that"-zone.
  6. The daily challenges forcing us to kill using specific damage types are great and instructive (even if easy for more experienced players). I would like to see more and much "crazier" instructive missions. One that immediately comes to mind is a "kavat/kubrow patrol" mission, where the warframes' weapons and active abilities (1-4) are locked and you are dependent on your pets. And an equivalent mission for sentinels. And an "operators-only" mission.
  7. I understand that the current set of standing rewards and the wolf credit market has evolved from the old alert system, but I think it would work better if the store was for fashion & weapons and all the resources were including in the standing rewards. In addition I think the standing reward progression would be a lot more interesting (and functional) if every third standing reward would consist of three options of which you can select only one (like the daily login reward). This would allow for resources like catalysts, orokin reactors, forma etc. to be present at several reward tiers, while at the same time allowing players that need them to select them and players that don't to select one of the other two options.
Edited by Graavarg
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

What isn't a chore is whatever I want to do at that time. What is a chore is all the things I don't want to do, but am obligated to by design

so ur saying that alerts were 100% trash because it was do a thing or dont get a thing?

what about all the junctions? 

quests that u have to do to unlock other quests?

Edited by (PS4)Spider_Enigma
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Posted (edited)
On ‎2019‎-‎03‎-‎18 at 11:51 AM, Lodeion said:

EDIT: "I think it's possible to satisfy both people who like and people who dislike 1-hour challenges, and that's what I want."

When Nightwave came out, I was very satisfied with its elite weekly 1-hour acts and I want more of them - it's a second week without them and I'm getting worried I'm not going to get them again.

I want them back. It was the best challenge so far in the new Nightwave-cycle, even if there were problems with a lot of players joining a mission they hadn't experience and equipment for.

I think it is inherently stupid that players that DON'T like something and don't want to do something should be able to get it removed from the game. This "adapting everything towards the middle"-syndrome kills variation and makes everything "the same", not just in Warframe but in other games, and you can see the same destructive views IRL everywhere. If you don't like the missions, just don't do them. Doing them (voluntarily) and then complaining about it is sort of... well, I'm not going to say it.

Or maybe we should have a system where we vote on everything in Warframe and then simply remove all the content that doesn't get majority approval. What a brilliant idea... not!

Edited by Graavarg
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21 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

 

I think it is inherently stupid that players that DON'T like something and don't want to do something should be able to get it removed from the game. This "adapting everything towards the middle"-syndrome kills variation and makes everything "the same", not just in Warframe but in other games, and you can see the same destructive views IRL everywhere. If you don't like the missions, just don't do them. Doing them (voluntarily) and then complaining about it is sort of... well, I'm not going to say it.

Or maybe we should have a system where we vote on everything in Warframe and then simply remove all the content that doesn't get majority approval. What a brilliant idea... not!

I think it's inherently stupid that players that like something that others do not believe they are entitled to inflict it on others.  Keep in mind that this stuff doesn't go away with just simple forum whining.  It wasn't three or four loud voices that "got it removed". despite the vast majority enjoying something.  Rather, the participation or completion numbers, combined with a variety of other metrics(incompletes that could be from host migration, etc) had to have shown something amiss in such an activity to merit removing or reducing it---a few forum gripes simply doesn't accomplish these things all alone.

Besides, it's not removed.  You can start an endless survival today and finish sometime next week if you really want to stay in one that long.  No, it won't get you your weekly standing, but that in no way changes the way the missions work.

The way it is right now---with stuff like this not used for weekly challenges--actually offers this content for both parties in an even handed way.

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Posted (edited)

NO. 100% No.    These "Elite" missions that are 1 hour long in one sitting with no checkpoint designs are awful concepts.  They are only Elite in the fact that you dont fall asleep. 

And this is NOT for everyone like youre stating.   You end up gating a lot of Nightwave standing (half a level) by creating a content that a majority of people loathed and it was clearly stated on here on these forums. 

The way to make a Survival mission Elite status is by having it a 20 or 30 minute mission that has debuffs on Tenno or major buffs on enemies.  Could even do things like "life support drops at double the rate" or "tenno that are downed lose overall life support."

Edited by (PS4)ImTooHungover
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, NinjaFramer said:

Oh my gosh! You've been the best source of information I've seen on this Game. You're not judging, not critical, just very helpful.

Got a real problem though. I have Essential tremors and guiding through the levels can be a challenge at times. I started out with Excalibur, nice frame, but I've yet to master him. I tend to forget what he can do when I'm in the heat of battle. But that's on me. I should have started out as Volt. Running would be better than bullet jumping into doorframes. Lol. My problem is trying to keep up. The others will be waiting for me at extraction before I can get started or they're on the other side of the map which leaves me fighting for my life. Lol, but that's on me.

I'm having a blast but I sometimes get a player or two that are super critical of my "Style" lol. Rushing like others through the levels adds a level of stress that really causes me to really make mistakes. 

So, all in all, I've managed to make friends that are understanding. And really, I'm not that bad. I just can't fly through spy missions.

You've been super helpful. Thank you.

4 random people can be doing the same mission 4 different reasons...one might be scanner hunting..one might be affinity farming,one might be farming lockers and crates, and the 4th might be clearing node so they can do a mission on a connected node...DE made a huge change when they set up free roam squad leaving and another when they allowed certain mission types to have one tenno evac....if you like to farm than do so...if others are skipping kills to speed up mission thats on them....

On a side note when your relevelings items keep one at least one slot at max... then do defense missions as youll get squad affinity for others kills . If solo stick to stuff you can kill with that lower ranked weapon.   not sure why its so hard to find squads in dark sector missions as those have bonus xp by weapon type.....imo amann is better than hydron for xp and resources but people goto hydron cause they get relics and full squads...your equipment will typically rank up faster with a full squad.. At least in excavation, defense, mobile defense, and survival cause its more likely group will stay in affinity range.

 

Just wanted to add although i am just mr7 after 3 months.. I have 4 frames with 3 that have benn formad multiple times as wll as at least 7 weapons that were formad 3to 4 times...i am constantly ranking up weapons and my frames. I also like to get mileage out of my weapons so i have no need to rank up up new stuff just for mastery at this point

 

Edited by (XB1)Tornicade
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1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

I think the biggest problem is the basic premise of the alerts, that is if "everyone" should be able to do "everything" or not. The driving force behind "maxing" stuff is strong, so the current three-tier level system doesn't really work as a separator as most players try to do all missions regardless of being equipped or experienced enough to do them. This was especially apparent with the 1-hour missions, where you had a lot of players joining that barely could manage 20 minutes. Which is perfectly fine (trying out tougher missions), but which also was extremely irritating for higher MRs which did not want to rinse-and-repeat due to half the squad having dropped out at the half-time mark.

However, if the missions gets adapted for "everyone", everyone will actually end up with less. Less variation, less difficulty, less challenge. Less "good loot", since a system that just distributes good loot to "everyone" isn't possible. And all this in turn will lead to less interest, especially for more experienced players (who are in this just for the new goodies, since they already have all the other stuff).

I think giving in to the gripe and making everything easier and possible for everyone is exactly the wrong way to go. Instead it should be pushed into the other direction, keeping the tough missions and adding even tougher ones.

Commenting on the three mission types on the list:

  • my only gripe with the Ayatan mission was that it punished players that put stars inte their sculptures immediately (like me 🙂). I had around fifty already filled ayatan sculptures "in storage", so I had go out and get more (which is quite easy, since arbitrations run 24/7). However, my lazy friend had around 30 unfilled sculptures, so he just filled five of them. Overall I think it was a perfectly valid (and interesting) new mission type.
  • The survival challenges have been the best missions in the series so far, and finally something with a real bite to it. Super-great! I also think it is the player's own fault if they don't see the possibility of combining several challenges in one (which has become a sort of new and fun meta-challenge once a week).
  • this is the only one where I side with the complainers. I think it would be ok if players that are friends or clan members would get an additional in-mission buff (more damage, more shields, more something per friend/clan member in the squad), but forcing players to "make friends" or join a clan in order to be able to even take part in a mission is... well, it is actually quite "bad". 

I have to admit I didn't like this change at first, but now I think it could become something quite brilliant. I have a few suggestions...

  1. First of all, please kill the idea that everyone should be able to do all missions, and after killing it bury it somewhere where no-one will ever find it.
  2. The premise that not everyone can do everything should also be applied to more experienced players, by adding missioin where you have to select doing either the "easier" or the "harder" version (with some appropriate spread in standing to reflect the different difficulty level).
  3. One of the really nice things with the new system is that the mix of players in the missions has increased (even though this at the same time has been an irritant in the tougher missions). Mixing different experience and equipment levels is a very good thing, but I think it should be handled differently, by adding a mission type that is based on experience slots, for instance 1 slot for MR20+, 1 for MR15-MR20, 1 for MR10-MR15 and 1 for MR5-MR10. The mission would not start until every slot was filled by a player of appropriate level, and in order to facilitate cooperation it would not conclude successfully unless all four players extracted together. This forces higher MR players to actually help and support others, and at the same time allows lower MR players to play with "fully equipped" Lords of the Game, as well as to see in practice what fully forma'ed and modded weapons and warframes, arcanes, focus schools etc. can do.
  4. From the arbitration system I would adapt the idea of using specific warframes for specific missions, but expand on it to have a mission type where using certain warframes is mandatory. That is, unless you select one of the four(?) warframes defined for the mission, you can't join (like the weapon gate system in sorties). Both Primed and non-primed versions of the applicable warframe should of course be allowed.
  5. Instead of a mission type forcing the players to use a specific weapon (as in no. 4 above) I would like to see a mission type where Lotus provides the weaponry (pre-selected and pre-modded). Basically players can join the mission using any warframe, but have to use the pre-selected weaponry in-mission. This would have the double benefit of allowing players to test weapons and forcing players out of their "I always use this/that"-zone.
  6. The daily challenges forcing us to kill using specific damage types are great and instructive (even if easy for more experienced players). I would like to see more and much "crazier" instructive missions. One that immediately comes to mind is a "kavat/kubrow patrol" mission, where the warframes' weapons and active abilities (1-4) are locked and you are dependent on your pets. And an equivalent mission for sentinels. And an "operators-only" mission.
  7. I understand that the current set of standing rewards and the wolf credit market has evolved from the old alert system, but I think it would work better if the store was for fashion & weapons and all the resources were including in the standing rewards. In addition I think the standing reward progression would be a lot more interesting (and functional) if every third standing reward would consist of three options of which you can select only one (like the daily login reward). This would allow for resources like catalysts, orokin reactors, forma etc. to be present at several reward tiers, while at the same time allowing players that need them to select them and players that don't to select one of the other two options.

Please dont refer to nightwave challenges as missions...challenges are things you can do within missions and people keep seeeming to miss the distinction .  Btw.. some items in cetus and fortuna were made more available...seems like de responding to feedback

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The 1 hour missions were fine. Some people just want every reward but don't even want to play the game. There's more than enough nightwave standing to go around.

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7 hours ago, Aldain said:

I could easily get behind this idea 100%.

I'd do 240 minutes of survival TOTAL before I'd do 60 consecutive minutes in one mission against the same enemies while also wondering if host migration would rear its ugly head.

The hardest part comes down to not getting bored for most players, not because of short attention spans but because for most people running a single mission for longer than about 15 minutes starts to crack Warframe's gameplay loop by stretching it too thin.

 

That and the lack of compelling rewards.  If they actually ramped up the longer you were in the mission, I'm willing to be more people would stay longer but, I've spent over an hour in a Survival only to get a Bronze of Silver mod.  That's not a reward worth that much time and effort.  (Doesn't stop me from doing it though lol but that's for different reasons)

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There should be hourly activities (or as frequent as alerts).

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40 minutes ago, German said:

There should be hourly activities (or as frequent as alerts).

You mean, like the hourly Arbitrations?

Or more sporadic like Rifts and Invasions? Or more of a slow frequency like Sorties, Weekly Relic hunts and Clem mission?

If you want, you can create a topic about the reward pool of the arbitrations...

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Thus far I like Nightwave, mostly (the five sortie thing was horrible).  I have friends that would like it more if they could turn off Nora.

But...I wish just as Dailies can roll over I wish some weeklies would too

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2 hours ago, Graavarg said:

I want them back. It was the best challenge so far in the new Nightwave-cycle, even if there were problems with a lot of players joining a mission they hadn't experience and equipment for.

I think it is inherently stupid that players that DON'T like something and don't want to do something should be able to get it removed from the game. This "adapting everything towards the middle"-syndrome kills variation and makes everything "the same", not just in Warframe but in other games, and you can see the same destructive views IRL everywhere. If you don't like the missions, just don't do them. Doing them (voluntarily) and then complaining about it is sort of... well, I'm not going to say it.

Or maybe we should have a system where we vote on everything in Warframe and then simply remove all the content that doesn't get majority approval. What a brilliant idea... not!

Hey man. I really like K-drive. There should be a Nightwave act where you have to do k-drive tricks for 1 hour straight. You only need 60% acts to get everything after all, right?

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3 hours ago, Thrymm said:

1) It wasn't three or four loud voices that "got it removed".

...

2) Rather, the participation or completion numbers, combined with a variety of other metrics(incompletes that could be from host migration, etc) had to have shown something amiss in such an activity to merit removing or reducing it---a few forum gripes simply doesn't accomplish these things all alone.

...

3) Besides, it's not removed.

...

4) The way it is right now---with stuff like this not used for weekly challenges--actually offers this content for both parties in an even handed way.

1 & 2: Pure speculation.

3: Exactly, it is in some sort of "paused" mode, and I want it back.

4: This is BS, I explicitly liked this mission as part of the Nightwave series, since it is the ONLY mission type that has any challenge at all. Yes, I know many players just want it "quick and easy", but I happen to like a challenge. According to your logic most other Nightwave missions could then also be removed, since they are very much like other content in the game.

Griping about a mission that is completely voluntary is... sort of strange. Kindly put. If others like it, why remove it? Just don't do it, there are plenty of other missions and approx. 60% redundancy in order to achieve full standing, so there is no actual need.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)ImTooHungover said:

You end up gating a lot of Nightwave standing (half a level) by creating a content that a majority of people loathed and it was clearly stated on here on these forums. 

The way to make a Survival mission Elite status is by having it a 20 or 30 minute mission that has debuffs on Tenno or major buffs on enemies.  Could even do things like "life support drops at double the rate" or "tenno that are downed lose overall life support."

Not true. The need to do all the missions is just in your head, approx. 60% of the missions are needed to achieve full standing. It is ok to want easy missions, I like a little bit more challenge. Even though I don't quite understand why you want the missions easier, if you are so über-good that you fall asleep fighting lvl 150-160 Grineer… Maybe you would get more out of it if you equipped a more challenging warframe and non-META equipment (it might actually be fun, you know 😉).

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If you want to encourage people to do longer survival, the answer isn't nightwave.  There are 2 reasons to fight stronger enemies and 1 of them is already satisfied by the normal survival missions.

  1. The Challenge.  As stated this is already covered by the current system but even then many who want a challenge don't want to have to sit through 30 min of low level stuff to get it.  Higher level mission nodes with the current rate of scaling are needed for those who want to have fun now instead of falling asleep waiting for something interesting to happen.
  2. Rewards besides bragging rights(2 hour survival gives same reward as 6X20 min survival).  DE had the right idea to fix this but then they only made it part of the arbitration.  AABC repeating in that loop makes doing another 4 waves less efficient than extracting and doing another round.  They need to make ALL endless AAB then C to infinity for 4th reward and on.

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Posted (edited)

No thank you..Did my time in the one-two hour mark zone on defense missions for some helmet or system blue print enough for one lifetime, I have no wish to drop that on anyone's head...also...It's bad enough I have to forgo 5000 standing for another 5000 due to it being a hour long defense or interception because I can't stand the thought of having friends...yuck....

Edited by (PS4)FriendSharkey

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This is a discussion forum for an ongoing topic of nightwave and how it can be improved ...removing nightwave is not really constructive feedback imo and doesnt fall within the de how to post constructive feedback post that is stickied..

Nightwave is a comprehensive reward system that includes a shop that includes old alert rewards.

We have

@ syndicate missions

@cephalon scan missions

@sorties

@invasions

@nightmare missions

@relic fissure missions

@kuuva siphon missions

@vault/derelict missions

@Cetus 

@fortuna

Then you have the  base mission types and orbiter related functions

All this stuff has their own set of challenges. 

Nightwave itself has 30 tiers of rewards plus its own shop with stuff and a cap on how many tiers you can get in a week.

So far. I do not like resource and faction dependant /group challenges as weeklies... Gilding an amp should be a season achievement.

The fugitives should net more standing or better yet...the fugitives should net nightwave credits in addition to the tier credit reward....5 to 15 wolf credits would certainly allow a bit more randomness to the nightain crowd.....or give the fugitives a chance to drop something

I also think the rare gem and fish achievements should of been just generic fish and gems at higher numbers. 

 

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