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[DE]Bear

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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7 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent. 

Darn skippy, unless you only do this one once every 3 weeks. But then we're into a cycle of Feeding Weeklies into Weeklies. Using Maroo's Weekly to complete a Tri-Weekly Ayatan socket Challenge. Which is going to lead me to a point #2 down below.

7 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.

You folks knew this was a problem. You should have even caught grumbling about the "War on INSERT FACTION" alerts we were doing the prior 3 weeks. So far there have been great suggestions about changing all "Endless" based Challenges into Wave/Reward-Rotation completion chunks. This would bring it in line with time scale of the Old Alerts. No more than 10 minutes for Survival, at most 10 waves of Defense, 4 Defectors Squads, etc. These were just long enough to prove the point that we could complete the content, but not long enough to drag on. "Hold Your Breath" challenge should be: "Survive a cumulative total of 60 minutes in one or more Kuva Survival missions."

(Very personal note: I would actively avoid Alerts with Defection unless the reward was an Orokin Catalysts. I do not like the implementation of Defection, I do not find the concept at all fun, and it starts to become tedious very quickly.)

Marathon runners are going to do what Marathon runners have been doing since Endless game modes got added. The Endless Void Fissure rewards are good way to reward those people if they want to do that, without so unbalance things for people who don't have the time to commit 1, 2, 4, 6 hours to a single mission sitting. Give them more of that. And in a way you did with Arbitrations.

7 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe".  

Forced Friends are not friends. This kind of enforced socializing is done by "sick" games that are trying to get their players to be a marketing force from them. The last example I saw of this was in Blizzard's Heroes of the Storm. This lead to "Friends for a Game" mentally, where players would only "Friend" up for a game or two and then remove each other from the list.

This creates an extra unnecessary step to the Invite Only and Friend Only squad modes. One of the major befits of doing Alerts was the ability to quickly Public Play. Compared to the dance of the Orokin Derelict Dragon Key runs, the current dance of the Radiant Void Relic Share runs, and other "organized" LFG missions. Adding "Friending" to this adds even more steps to the LFG process, which is completely unnecessary. The community was handling LFGs just fine. The whole Taxi system for high value alerts was this, if a Veteran player was so inclined.

Do not force community on your players. We've been doing a good job over 5 years for you. You absolutely do not need to twist our arms. You also don't need to punish Solo players (for all the many varied and sometimes impossible to resolve technical issues) while twisting our arms unnecessarily. Instead you should be looking at giving us better tools to do what we have been doing in LFG recruiting faster and more streamlined. And you have been, as we twist your arms in repeated feature requests. All of the work that's gone into displaying Squad Member Equips (Auras, Relics, Dragon Keys, etc.).

Going back to "Survival Challenges is too long". By breaking such challenges into chunks you restore the ability of Veteran players to Taxi new players to such missions. To give them a taste of Late and End game content, as used to happen with Alerts that appeared at Late and End game nodes.

(Aside on Spoiler Mode. Investigate giving us the Rell Wraith skin/texture/model appearance to players who have not completed The Second Dream. This would obfuscate this mode while still allowing it to be used.)

7 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

We will be applying what we have learned to Nightwave Series 2

As a very long time player I would strongly encourage you to quickly cut Forced Friending for the remainder of Series 1. I can understand if that change can't happen for Week 3, but Weeks 4 through 10 should be Forced Friending free.

Ultimately there are two problems with the Nightwave system as it's being done.

  1. It does not adequately replace the quick Login-and-Play style of Alerts. This is an issue of Time Commitment.
    1. This is where you are seeing many of the comments against the 1-hour survival. You either need to show us all the math about how Nightwave's rewards will compare to the prior Alert system. Especially for people looking at Nitain Extract.
    2. As I stated above, breaking Endless Challenges down into Cumulative totals. This allows for progressive complete over the course of a Week and gives veteran players some breathing room to Taxi newer players as they would under the old Alert system.
    3. Please add into your development pipeline a Minimum Time to Complete calculation when creating challenges. You have wildly different completion times across challenges. Complete 3 Assassinations, Complete 10 Syndicate Missions, and Complete 3 ESO Waves are all widely different and not given Time based Nightwave Standing values.
      1. I should make this clear: Time is the factor, not supposed Difficulty. People are not objecting to the 1-hour Survival because it is "hard content", they are objecting because it takes a long amount of time. Personally I have often grumped that I'd take Double or Triple the enemy level on some of the prior Alert System missions, if you'd cut the times in half.
    4. There still needs to be some kind of Alerts. Mainly assure Credit and Resource alerts need to make a return. These were rather important to newer players.
  2. I see that you're trying to have progressive goals to work toward in Nightwave. Goals that can be worked on slowly over the course of a week. However the execution falls flat.
    1. Going back to #1 above, you need to break "Endless" requirements up into chunks of cumulative time.
    2. Going to #1-4, with Credit/Resource alerts these should be tied to the current Nightwave. For example: Nightwave Alerts (or just Alerts) should also have assured or increased chance (depending on current Week of Nightwave) of Prisoner of Saturn 6 spawns. The Alerts are Nightwave (or informant Callers) directing us to the current threat/issue.
      1. This also provides a method for Players to gain Nightwave standing if they are having problems executing the various Challenges.
      2. This makes Nightwave stories feel more "active" from the outset.
      3. Again, also a reason for Veterans to Taxi and support new players.
    3. Returning to the Maroo Ayatan Weekly feeding the Nightwave Tri-Weekly Ayatan Socketing, this would be an example of a Progressive Chain Questing. However in the Nightwave structure you put too much time pressure on doing that. Progressive Chain Quests suffer horribly if you put time constraints on them in this way. It would be rather nice if we could get more of this kind of Progression Chaining. Do a weekly Espionage type task to slowly advance toward some kind end goal.
      1. With some method to progress faster than Weekly in some cases.
      2. End goals could:
        1. Be a specific Void Relic
        2. Some Nitain or similar System/Plains/Vallis resource cache.
        3. A cumulative biasing of the RNG drops on a single Enemy type, or Mission/Cache reward.
          1. Think Void Relic Refinement but for an Enemy/Mission
      3. This is kinda of what I was expecting to see from a "Progression" or "Token" based Alerts replacement.
Edited by Brasten
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2 hours ago, No1Eye said:

 

well, let's see how much you will keep doing this, not only you, but all players who see it like you do.

also, you were already getting rewards in the previous way, you clicked the alert mission and 5-10 minutes later you had the reward.

now, with the nightwave system, you need to grind up all the way to the reward.

i am not saying it is a problem, perce, but alerts should not have been replaced by the nightwaves challenges, simply coz they are a different thing and they have a different function.

nightwaves are nice too, it is a nice addition.

but, both should coexist and the player should choose what he/she wants to do.

alerts: a quick and easy way to a reward

challenges: a set of missions/challenges leading up to a reward.

this way, it will appeal to all kind of players and everybody will be happy.

also, if it took you months to get nittain with the old alerts, as you said on your post, you were definitely doing something wrong.

take a look here --->

 

 

And you complete look over the whole "I work for a living not game for a living" You could get that sure all in one day if you played all day every day without a job, life, kids or anything else.

Now tell me or else I drop this convo with you........ what did the old alerts give you that a veteran of 5 years didn't already have....... hmmmm?

Sure if I wanted to get my 450,000 Energy Siphon then sure the alerts were really good. But what reward is that?

If you cannot see the simple fact that nightwave gives you the rewards of alerts PLUS brand new rewards, cosmetics and otherwise then you are walking around with blind folds.

And before you talk about credits....... I have several MILLION credits, 10s of thousands of the resources, every alt helm, every aura mod, and yet you are telling me that I should give up the rewards of nightwave based on it sucks and it isn't easy.

Also by your logic no frame should be reworked, systems should change just so a player can play the way he or she wants to.

Welcome to the real world it doesn't bend to your will. Maybe once you are making $45k a year, have several kids, a wife, a house payment, among other priorities you will understand that alerts did not help you at all. With this I can come back and play on the weekends and still get all the rewards.

Come back and talk with me after 5 years of playing this game if you haven't already.

DE cannot make EVERYONE happy. It is completely impossible.

Here is a better questions......... if nightwave sucks, then how would you have done it better without losing half of your community because they don't want to grind their 4thousandth Nitain to use it on nothing because they have everything.

Do you my friend hate the rewards or would you like to play warframe as it was 5-6 years ago?

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At the moment my only feedback for the 60 minute endurance missions is not so much that 60 minutes is too long, but doing it in a single sitting can be frustrating, especially if one bad thing happens and the mission goes south and the group fails. For this kind of mission my only suggestion would be to make it a cumulative time spent in that mission/situation, and if needed increase the total time. This way it allows the challenge to remain, but gives the player choice on if they want to tackle it all at one, or break it down over a few missions/play sessions.

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Posted (edited)

As it has been said over and over again, the two systems should coexist.

At least, some particular alerts should be brought back to reach the compromise.
Personally, I don't really care if helmets and skins stay in Wolf cred rewards, they're nice, but not essential.
Potatoes are arguable too, maybe this should be tinkered within Invasions.

Alerts with auras, weapon BPs, Vauban parts and resources? These should 100% return to the game.

Edit:
I'm all for the extention of the acts list with a weekly reputation cap. This way everyone will find something they actually like and want to do.
Hour-long survivals can be too tedious in one sitting, or there can be a host migration, or someone decides to troll and activates the life support, whatever. It still may be 60 minutes, but it would be much more reliable if it was 60 minutes in total.

Edited by Athizea
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8 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

So at first pass, we are seeing some concerns rise to the top:

  • Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.
  • Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.
  • Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

Consider adding up alternative ways to complete the task. For example, to complete elite challenge player can either do a single 1h survival run or survive for 1.5h total. Same for friend/clan challenges: player can choose to cooperate with clanmates or just do more sorties solo/without friends.

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Here's two easy steps to fix Nightwave and unalienate 95% of the community.

1. Remove the time exclusivity, It's the crux of the issue since it forces us the player into playing not when we want, but to the tune of the daily/weekly timers. DE you go on and on how you encourage player choice, well this "feature" of the update robs that from us. It actively punishes those who are time poor and/or are burnt out from playing the game religiously. It's also an anti consumer practice.

2. Relies on you doing 1. but you then allow those who aren't at rank 30 by the time season two starts to stay in season one till they get to 30 then are reset via prompt to season 2, that way we can do Nightwave at our own pace and not play 24/7 and suffer from burn out.

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My two cents so far.

I actually really enjoyed the 1h survival this week since it's so rare to be put into endgame scenario in this game, but I do admit it's too long in one sitting for most folks. I think the solution is twofold... One we need survival missions that start at a higher level and give better rewards... Because most vets will tell you the first 35 minutes of any endless mission is the booring part we ensure to get to the fun, challenging part. Imagine if instead of a 60 min bore, we would have Survive 20 minutes in a LVL 100+ Survival... And we actually had starchart nodes that go that high.

For other challenges,i liked tridolon, I liked the challenge with clanmates, it's a great excuse to pair instead of doing everything solo .

As for those I hated... The ayatan star one. I have like 200 ayatans, all with stars, so farming empty ones suck. Likewise kinda hate stuff like the simaris targets the Cetus bounties , the 10 syndicate missions the 10 invasions and similar bounties that force you to do something specific which you would not have done otherwise. Please try to make more open challenges that you can complete in many mode / planets / difficulties... 

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Posted (edited)

Overall I have to say I've really enjoyed the introduction of Nightwave. Very impressed with how it has breathed some life back into the game and brought players back and given more things to do besides login for daily reward and sortie.

Have to agree the Ayatan challenge in the first week was an eye opener and a challenge especially with it not recognising statues filled in the Dojo but I got it done.

This week though there are 2 challenges I'm very unlikely to get done because of the 1 hour requirement.

I am pretty certain that in the 18 or so months I've played, I've never been able to spend 1 hour in a specific area of content. This isn't down to frame/mods/ability but real life events that randomly challenge me and mean I must AFK at very short notice. I have good days and not so good days but I really have no control over when I have to AFK so it pretty much rules out long content and often means I do most content solo.

I realise my circumstances are pretty unique but I'd still like to be able to complete all challenges so would greatly appreciate if challenges could be kept to a shorter duration.

It's also ironic that you choose to implement such long tasks especially given you have in game prompts about how long people are playing for. Add to that it seems playing with others leaves you open to people trolling and wasting your time so you must repeat and spend more time playing that you will prompt them about.

EDIT: Meant to mention that I would have tried to run a 1hour Kuva Survival solo w/o life support as I could pause the game when I needed to AFK but past experience has shown low spawn rates so it would be impossible to maintain life support for 1hr to meet the challenge solo.

Edited by (XB1)Enigmatic LFC
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The challenges are too long to achieve not necessarily difficult but especially too long compared to the old system ... the 9 missions invasions you have to wait for captures otherwise it's too long ... the survival of an hour ??? already that the 30 minutes to retrieve Saryn's relics was ultra boring but an hour ? And remove the constraint of doing with x nobody is totally useless ... In general the new system can be better if you do not have its constraints and challenges too long without real difficulty.

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I found the survival run to be just in the right time spawn, but I guess my feeling about it is in the silent minority that would just do it,

the ayatan one had me get more ayatans that invloved rng, that could just be replaced with completing rounds of arbitration and turned into an elite challenge.

I am enjoying the extra weekly goal, even if I do tend to finish them on the same day I get them.

my concern is that some things take more time than others comparing 10 syndicate missions to 3 rounds of elite onslaught for example, the time invastment into the syndicate mission is far greater, for far less reward, not to mention the odd way of 3 rounds of onslaught makes me feel as it doesnt encourge players to go to a reward rotation.

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Posted (edited)

Entering the second week of Nightwave is changing my mind about it. I'm liking it better than Alerts now, since it's changing how you build your Frames and how you play in general. It's spicing things up and encouraging you to try many of the varied content the game has to offer.

Initially, I was worried a bit because it used to be a "quick play with random people" button, but Fissures and Invasions can still fill that to some extent. It also drives players to find alternative, better sources of credits too, like extra-resource defense missions.

Edited by (NSW)Joewoof

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I wrote a bunch of stuff. But the stuff outside of the spoiler is the super important stuff.

Spoiler
6 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

We will be applying what we have learned to Nightwave Series 2 - but can only improve with constructive, detailed posts about what you like / didn't like about acts. Knowing what you like is just as important as what you don't like. 

I don't like that. I would like it to be changed now.

Super long Survival/Defense runs have never been about having fun. They're about testing yourself. And yes, even an average player can get a rush the first few times they last an hour, from a sense of accomplishment. But after you've done it a few times, that ends for most players. That's why Arbitration fell off so hard and so fast. I've read that it's been addressed to some degree, but the Defense objectives still last forever.

In an MMO on a long dungeon/raid, you can take a break in between pulls or after boss fights. You can lean back, stretch, get a drink, go pee. You can do those things because playing video games isn't a job, at least for those that don't stream or have Youtube channels.

The Law of Retribution/Jordas trials, whether intentional or not, allowed for these breaks as well. Those trials were challenging, to a degree greater than anything in the game now (largely because when they were introduced we didn't have free-roaming Operators), but they were still enjoyable. Well, at the very least LoR outside of that puzzle room that took forever was enjoyable (if the hacking was dropped and each symbol just popped up as the buttons were pressed, that would have made it much faster/more enjoyable). Sorties are the same way, with the added bonus of not even needing to do them back to back or with the same people.

What made this game popular for long enough that Plains could even happen was fast, snappy content with a sense of progression and a change of scenery. The endless modes were an option, but one that players wouldn't regularly take beyond what was necessary. And especially not for triple the C-rotation length.

With that out of the way, let's talk about health and safety. Historically, this game has been very friendly to players with Carpel Tunnel, Tendinitis, Arthritis, back injuries, eye-strain-induced migraines, low blood sugar, incontinence, et cetera. That's because no one activity had to last long enough without a potential break, one that wouldn't impair your team, in order to stretch, or look away from the TV, or whatever you needed to address. But the game has slowly been introducing more and more content that, with no alternative, asks more and more of your time per mission. Did lots of people do 40 minute Orokin Survivals back when we had keys (instead of relics) for efficiency, yes. But it was never required to grind out anything.

Others and myself have been speaking against this for like 3 years now, starting back when Sortie level Survival/Defense/etc were scaled to last way too long compared to things like Spies and Exterminates on a system were the mission-types were supposed to be interchangeable. You listened then (eventually), I hope you're listening now and will respond in a more timely manner.

---

What do I like? I like a challenge. If you want enemies to be level 200 at the end of a survival, then start them at whatever level would make that happen in 20 minutes. There are hundreds of nodes on the star chart and most of them are useless. Change a few or add a few more. Then require a single 20 minute run of one of those missions instead of a 60 minute run or instead of 3 20 minute runs.

And while you're at it, disable gear usage on all Elite Acts. If Tactical Alerts have proven anything, it's that nothing cheeses content faster in this game than throwing down a few hundred energy/health pizzas throughout the course of a mission. If you want to make something harder, gearless objectives is a good place to start.

Disabling (or requiring that you unequip) all Warframe mods would be another good challenge for any mission mode. No-Alarm, no-powers speed runs. 500 Cryotic Excavation, no Warframe powers, Operator kills only. No-down state Assassinations that require you to kill specific bosses (so you can't just farm an easy one). I'm sure they're in there and we just haven't seen them yet, but how about objectives involving the Assault and Infested Scavenge modes? I feel this Nightwave system would be at its best when giving players a reason to do the lesser played game modes, or visit lesser played tilesets.

There are a plethora of things we can be tasked with that don't involve taking a really long time on one mission.

But you know what? Ignore all of that if you want. If you want to fix this right now, all you gotta do is this.

There are currently 7 dailies, 7 weeklies, and 3 elites. Instead, make that 12 weeklies, but only the first 7 weeklies you complete count for rep gain. The rest are just there to give you a variety of options. Same thing with elites, but make it 5 while only 3 count for rep. Make sure the objectives have mutual lockouts in the RNG to avoid multiple similar objectives in a single week.

If necessary, reward someone with a bonus if they do all 26 missions for a week. Some extra series exclusive credits, a few thousand more NW rep. Maybe a new Stratos-style emblem that displays how many times they did a full clear per week on a given NW series. But never scale the system assuming someone should go that extra mile.

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Posted (edited)

Ayatan Challenges - yeah, a hard pass on that (too much luck needed).

Survival Challenges - I understand that its supposed to be a challenge but 60 minutes is a bit too long, maybe 40-50 because its more manageable and less about praying to nekros/hydroid RNG.(talking about kuva one there but 60 minutes is still too long, maybe have a normal challenge be 40 minutes and no life support be 30 minutes?).

Friend / Clan Challenges - no complaints there.

Perfect Animal Captures - maybe a bit less? (also the birds are a pain to capture).

Complete 10 Syndicate missions - hmmm good for those that still need to get standing with syndicate but too much otherwise.

Complete 8 Bounties in the Plains of Eidolon - same thing as syndicate missions.

Complete 9 Invasion missions of any type - pretty close to the 2 above but at least the stuff you get is always useful.

Kill or Capture an Eidolon Hydrolyst - not really new player friendly.

 

Edited by Eyn_Sof
huh somehow text doubled
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10 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

I think Elite acts should be a harder difficulty tier. Whether the current set achieve this is debatable, and maybe having 2 survival challenges at the same time is sub-optimal.. Specifically:

  • Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.

Finally! Something to do with all those Ayatans! As a vet who had mostly maxed out mods before fusion cores were retired, now that my orbiter is at capacity, I contribute most of these to the dojo. Additionally I tend to find 8+ in a week anyway, without considering Arbitrations.

  • Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.

Actually, was a little disappointed when 60 minutes came around and the team wanted to leave...

  • Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

Clans and friends are both fairly easy to find. I don't see much issue...

All told, I'm really enjoying some of the higher level acts. The dailies are a bit ho-hum tho - "kill X enemies with <damage-type>" 3 days in a row...

 

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here is my wish.

-return back alert missons with few Wolf cred/rep as reward.

-remove expiration from Wolf cred & season ( to be able to proceed at own pace)

-increase challenge subject pool. ( let player can choose what to do/not to do)

 

I don't think that everything about Nightwave is bad.

There is a possibility of become a fair system for all player with reconsideration.

...but current NW looks like smartphone games that torturing player by "For a limited time" and quota.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Things I like about this new system:

- the general structure of a progression with increasing rewards.

- the idea of daily/weekly challenges, as it makes me want to play in missions I haven't played in ages. This is a crucial aspect than can be really rewarding game-wise, even for veteran players IMO.

- exclusive cosmetics at the end of the progression with WOSS is a pretty good idea. 

- The throwing hammer...

Things I don't like:

- The sensation of a ticking clock that will span for 10 weeks. Seriously, this is my only *big* concern about this new system...I think it's a pretty bad idea in a game like Warframe (which is NOT a generic smartphone game with limited time events!!!), but I also suppose that a solution would be to make the seasons "cyclical" or increase the span of time where you can reach the rank 30 with standings...

- Seriously, 1 (ONE) umbra forma after 29 ranks? So, if DE wants to give *one* single umbra forma each season we will have only 5-6 umbra forma *every year*. That's pretty weird to me...Just put the umbra forma in the store, for a reasonably high plat price...

- The throwing hammer... 😄

 

Edited by (PS4)nating51
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I felt nightwave is not newbie friendly. Previously newbies see helmet alert etc (most are easy missions), they do it they get the reward. So 1 week they can have quite a number of new stuffs. With nightwave... and the limited amount of wolf cred, newbies won't get much of what they wanted. Not to mention a lot of challenges have to made them to be carried by more veteran players.

There are just not enough wolf cred to balance out how fast people can get their stuffs in the old alert system.

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Posted (edited)

I still haven't encountered the Wolf yet.

Just nonstop convicts to capture.

I'm wondering, will there be more variety to these convicts showing up?

Or is going to be just Wolf, or three convicts?

I'm thinking there should be more variety of convicts, with different weapons, different looks, maybe some with different abilities. They can even be worth different amount of Nightwave standing.

I mean these Grineer had to all be some serious badass' to be sent to this special prison right?

Edited by Teliko_Freedman
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It's a great concept that appears to have skillfully avoided your QA team:

Most people don't do 1hr survivals not because "it's too much of a challenge" but because it's freakishly boring

The friend requirement is great in concept, but hey, general chat is full of them, unless you have marginal Inet, then it's full of host migration and failure.

The points split between the different tasks is poorly considered, since you really can't skip the boring "elite" stuff if you want to keep grinding up the battlepass ranks.

The way some of the tasks are just rng dependent, well, theres a devstream or 2 where Sheldon claims to have learned his rng lessons and will be working to reduce, you know, rng.

 

Early days though, maybe all the crap stuff is falling out early and the rest of the system will be golden, and not a dumpster fire.

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hi bear! I personally like the challenges I really like! It's a new thing for me as a warframe veteran, and for other veterans, then every week the challenges change, and he always entertains you, and the boss they put and his weapon is something spectacular! live warframe !! 😍

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Personally, I'm fine with the challenges and wasn't bothered too much by the 60 minute survival. Mainly because I was able to farm Kuva on the side. Tedious, sure. But as long as it's not a pure 60 minute survival... Hunting the Eidolons or floofs bothered me way more than the survival.

One thing I'm greatly concerned about is Nightwave not being newbie friendly. Yes, alerts you need wouldn't always be up when you'd like them to, but you'd have things to do in the meantime anyway. So whatever. With Nightwave you're forced to do these specific activities, which are worse when you compare rewards/time spent to alerts. Alerts also didn't make you feel like you were time gated as much, since they refreshed way faster.

Now if you look at who actually needs the Wolf Cred rewards, you might notice that it's almost exclusively low-MR players who might not even be able to complete some of the challenges. The rest are only in it for the cosmetics and won't even break a sweat. I don't need the Nitain Extract, but that MR3 guy over there does. And lots of it. Consider having both - old alerts and Nightwave. Perhaps have a higher, additional challenge level for alerts. I'm thinking level 150+ with modifier alerts. True elite alerts, like arbitrations were supposed to be. Maybe make them award extra standing or stuff like Wolf Sledge parts, mods and all that.

Increasing Wolf Creds per standing in general would help as well. Or increase the amount of dailies. One challenge a day that barely takes 5 minutes or less isn't really fulfilling. Or make Creds a challenge reward and/or droppable by Saturn 6 dudes. Either way, adjustments need to be made in that area.

Other than that I'm pleasantly surprised with those challenges and disappointed that they will probably be nerfed to hell, if the initial Fortuna enemy nerf is anything to go by. Having challenging content will lock out a part of the playerbase and you shouldn't be afraid to do so. However, locking players out of essential content (i. e. Nitain Extract) is a no-no, which I'm sure you will find a solution to.

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By the way about the Nightwave, one could add the choice of passing the tests, as in the example of the index, depending on the complexity of certain awards or experience. Example: maybe someone only needs to get 30 rank and rewards, and someone will continue to farm for more difficult to purchase offers, thus you can even further improve this nightwave mode, this will bring not only choice, but also innovation.

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I suppose the only issue ive got with it at the moment is that theres alot of preassure each week to perform. Being a weekend warrior Ive only got 2 days to realy do anything towards this, and I HAVE to get 3 levels a week, which needs 80% of the challenges to be compleated each week. So if I want to get that wolf armor (which I really, really do) I cant afford to play any of the Warframe game modes I enjoy playing. I also cant afford to play a mission where I fail to achive the nightwave goal.

I'd preffer to see a system where all the objectives are available all the time, and you have 10 weeks to work through the whole set. For objectives that might be planned to appear more than once, maybe just have these 'refresh' after compleation a limited number of times, or be replaced by slightly more demanding versions of themselves.

This would allow more freedom in playing how I want to play, only dictating my time when the bonties start getting ticked off in large quantities.

Also - I'd have the 'prestiging' work so that after you hit 30, you prestige and all the bounies reset. Let people prestige multiple times.

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I feel like there shouldn't be Elite tier acts, but Elite tier challenges. Example: the two survivals we had should be a single weekly "Complete a 30 min Kuva Survival". Tied to this act, there would be up to two Elite tier challenges:

  • If you don't use Life Support, more standing;
  • If you reach the 60 min mark, more standing;
  • If you reach 60 min mark without using Life Support, maximum standing;
  • If you complete the act with only one Elite challenge, you can repeat it to gain the standing from the uncompleted challenge if both challenges are completed simultaneously;
  • If you complete the act with no Elite challenges, you can repeat it to gain the standing from both challenges if both are completed simultaneously.

This adds flexibility to the system, and gives us a chance of getting at least some standing from something we may not enjoy, while still rewarding who wants to/ can push it further. If really needed, cap the number of challenges that are generated. So from all act+challenges available, two acts will have two Elite challenges, three with only one challenge, etc.

Successfully completing an act+Elite challenges should guarantee less repetition as well. Example: either do 3 mid level PoE bounties to gain the maximum standing for that act or do 1 of the highest level fulfilling the challenge condition. Eight bounties is too much. Everyone who wants to have their time well spent end up choosing the lowest level. Requiring the repetition of a specific mission with no special reason provides no challenge at all, even if it's meant to be completed in a week span.

Also, I quite dislike the lack of in-game information about the Series' duration. Without that info, it's hard to plan what I want to do, or to be more specific, what I don't want to do. How can I know if my progress rate will get me to the highest ranks? I've heard you only need 65% of all acts or something like that. How can I compare 65% to my progress?

I'm sad that there's no reactants anymore. My luck with reactants is bad and I find it tiresome to do endless fissures just to get more.

Maybe unrelated, but the Grineer fugitives should be attacked by the local faction whenever they appear. It makes no sense that they don't.

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Posted (edited)

I got hooked on Warframe because it is a casual friendly and stress free experience and the gameplay loop is short. Nightwave is not that.

Pressure

The 60% measure to completion is off by a large margin. Calculations show you can at best miss two elite objectives and one non elite per week to be able to finish the event. That is three objectives before you need to compensate next week. This system share the worst features with the login rewards in the sense that if you cannot be there to check in, there is no catch up (150 per convicts pop are crumbs). This is caused by:

  • Important rewards being at the end
  • Objectives timing out, so you 'lose' your points if you can't answer the call
  • The ratio of required objectives (not points!) being being way over 50% so one week cannot compensate for another

In comparison, missing an alert was a bummer at best.

Planning

I am kinda fed up because I got a job and a family and I should not have jam WF into my agenda. I also want to play other games. It was cool that I could take a 15 minute break playing the game and Nightwaves do not allow that.

This is what made me stop playing my favorite MMO in favor of Warframe in the first place. By season 2 I will not be able to take more of this.

Objectives

  • Hydrolist capture: pure luck to me. I managed to log in a week end with a night with barely enough time left, and be matched with someone willing to carry.
  • With a friend / clan: Not a problem because i got a clan and many players made an effort to reach out other players.
  • 60 minute survival: You built a game on a short gameplay loop and then enforce a super long mission that maybe I can try this week end. Once.
  • Ayatan statue: Got no drop on sortie. Arbitrations are long, and I got only one drop. They did not pop in syndicate missions. RIP
  • 8 bounties: Doing 8 low level bounties is boring. Asking for one level 30+ would have been better.
  • 9 invasion: Same, it's boring. 3 invasions for one side would have done the trick.
  • 10 syndicates: Too much! There is the RNG element of needing faster missions over defense or survival so you can complete them under a cumulated hour. Also it is counter productive as you'll want to complete them faster without finding medallions.

Good objectives include 3 elite sanctuary waves, complete 3 captures, open 3 relics, all of those can be completed fairly quickly.

Other good objectives are the ones that act as 'extra' and progress through normal play: kill eximus, kill with damage type, pickup something, scan target... Even if they do not complete in one go you can safely complete in a few sessions while you hunt for something else.

tldr; Nightwave is casual hostile, running behind the umbral forma train is not fun.

Edited by Bltgn
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