Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

[DE]Bear

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

Recommended Posts

Ok, I want to bring it back to constructiv feedback:

I would like to see a system with building up own challenge/difficulty.
You'll always have different players, with different play-styles so it needs a system that can be scaled by themself.
Just a quick base sample:
Earn 100 points by extermination missions (extermination lvl 60 enemies = 25 points; extermination lvl 30 enemies = 10 points; extermination lvl 10 enemies = 2 point).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tellakey said:

Yea no. Go read the threads, my friend.

More importantly, the community is entitled to raise their dissatisfaction with aspects of the game. Are you into censorship? It's in vogue right now.

No, the community is entitled to express its entitled attitude.

Almost all of a dissatisfaction comes from the fact that some just want to get that sweet armor and forma for nothing and immediately.
Regardless of the fact that it has been stated, that nothing from Nightwave will be exclusive.
Coupled with the other side, which simply wants a reason to do something, DE is in a losing position no matter what they do.
All the diminutive reasoning akin to "its repetitive, boring...etc." is 0 feedback and is so specific, that not only can be applied to any part of the game, it can be applied to any game.
More items of issue that complaints bring up seem to absolutely omit how it was with alerts, E.G. potatoes and Nitain are hard to get - they always were.
And last, let's not forget about how almost anyone with a complaint likes to use the same half baked statements that they copied of other posts, akin to:

 

2 hours ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

bring back the quick alert system - that proved successful for 6 years

That right there is why most of the flakes that complain aren't being taken seriously.
I employ you to find 1 thread before Alert removal that said anything positive about those.
Because I can recall a whole bunch, that bashed on a *these are off the top of my head* outdated and badly RNG gated system with mostly useless rewards.



Nightwave does need a tweak here and there, but it's a good system, far better than alerts can ever hope to be.


INB4 the next series looks something like:
kill 1 000 Grenier
kill 1 000 Infested
kill 1 000 Corpus

for weekly missions because enough people complained they should get with no effort involved.

 

Just a quick jab here.

Every time something new comes out, the internet warriors come out of their holes. Not once and in any game has this been an exception.
Every single piece of content this game provides has been explained as badly designed and as unfair by some random tool, that doesn't want to do X type of activity. We'd be left with a blank page if DE catered to all these people.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, M4T2E said:

Ok, I want to bring it back to constructiv feedback:

I would like to see a system with building up own challenge/difficulty.
You'll always have different players, with different play-styles so it needs a system that can be scaled by themself.
Just a quick base sample:
Earn 100 points by extermination missions (extermination lvl 60 enemies = 25 points; extermination lvl 30 enemies = 10 points; extermination lvl 10 enemies = 2 point).

Which is exactly why I'm dissatisfied with many of the current Nightwave missions. There is no distinction between doing the bare minimum to get the rounds to count and going out of your way. Take for instance, if they had tweaked the Bounty mission to factor more than just being there when it is completed, you could have it so that you have the option of doing 1 or 2 Bounties at the highest tier or 7 at the lowest tier. It would at least bring back some level of limited choice for players while rewarding people for doing things better by having them not sit through 30 Bounties over the month.

But anytime any suggestion on how the conditions could have been done, you get a weird pushback from people who either claim "I can do them so they are fine and shouldn't be changed" or "If you don't like them, don't do them ". There is another thread specifically on this topic, just see the responses to suggestions yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

No, the community is entitled to express its entitled attitude.

Almost all of a dissatisfaction comes from the fact that some just want to get that sweet armor and forma for nothing and immediately.
Regardless of the fact that it has been stated, that nothing from Nightwave will be exclusive.
Coupled with the other side, which simply wants a reason to do something, DE is in a losing position no matter what they do.
All the diminutive reasoning akin to "its repetitive, boring...etc." is 0 feedback and is so specific, that not only can be applied to any part of the game, it can be applied to any game.

3
3

Please just go to feedback and look up Nightwave criticism. There are some seriously intricate suggestions. This is the issue with overgeneralizing. You're contributing to forum hostility by regarding any form of criticism to Nightwave as "snowflakes whining". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

And again, you decided that Umbral Forma is not as important. That's utterly subjective.

No. We can still build umbral build without umbral forma. No one has it jet and we still have umbral builds. Its just a nice to have. Maybe later in the new war it might be important but right now its just like "nice to have".

 

16 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

I don't see how the availability of primes is relevant.

They are not relevant. There is no frame that is so much better in a primed version that the normal part is not. No one cares if you use a Nova or a Nova Prime. Or a Rhino or Rhino Prime.

 

18 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

To others fashion is more important so missing out on the exclusive armor set is undesirable. 

Some some people. You could also say that Excalibur Prime is a sin. Its not. We need more exclusive stuff that matters.

 

20 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

Again, DE isn't literally pointing a gun to my head, but I am forced in the sense that if I want to play the new content I have to suffer through a tedious system that's much worst than the game's regular grind because it is time-limited, therefore exerting pressure. Compare that to Fortuna, another grind-fest that A. has a much better time-investment to reward ratio, and B. could be played at your own pace.

Warframe is and was a Grind game. Deal with it. It will not change. I agree that some things are to grindy (hello baruuk) but in the end DE is making the right choices. Or if you dont have time: buy them. Its still a f2p game.

 

21 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

Ah, a classical ad-hominem followed with a typical "then don't play it" argument. Because negative feedback is forbidden nowadays.

If you say that the game is not worth playing what kind of "feedback" is that? You dont offer solutions. Thats part of feedback. That is what people are forgetting.

 

23 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

I have zero issues with exclusive rewards. My problem with Nightwave is its weekly pressure on veterans and casuals alike, and its enforcement of tedious chores that go by the false title of "challenges"

Most of them you can complete them in one or two days within a few hours. Normally I need 3 days. Also you can skip up to 13k standing per week and still get to the end. Whats the problem?

24 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

I want an actual challenge in Warframe, therefore I criticize the game when it fails to implement it.

Nightwave is not for challenges. They not designed it for this. I also wait for it but Nightwave is not for that kind of players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

No. We can still build umbral build without umbral forma. No one has it jet and we still have umbral builds. Its just a nice to have. Maybe later in the new war it might be important but right now its just like "nice to have".

5

You had argued that Nightwave rewards are purely cosmetics and that even Umbral Forma is not that important. All I'm saying is that the game is so easy that even normal Forma is not a necessity for end-game, therefore making the worth of anything utterly subjective.

Quote

They are not relevant. There is no frame that is so much better in a primed version that the normal part is not. No one cares if you use a Nova or a Nova Prime. Or a Rhino or Rhino Prime.

 

Right, it's irrelevant, so I didn't understand why you included that in your argument.

Quote

Some some people. You could also say that Excalibur Prime is a sin. Its not. We need more exclusive stuff that matters.

3

Until DE provides the impossible statistic of what percentage of players prioritize what in the game "some players" is equal to who knows how many.

Quote

Warframe is and was a Grind game. Deal with it. It will not change. I agree that some things are to grindy (hello baruuk) but in the end DE is making the right choices. Or if you dont have time: buy them. Its still a f2p game.

6

Have you read my comparison to Fortuna? It is also a grind-fest, and as I already pointed, that's okay. But Fortuna doesn't pressure you with timed exclusives. That's where Nightwave commits the greatest disservice. Baruuk, too, is one of the mildest grinds in the game.

Quote

If you say that the game is not worth playing what kind of "feedback" is that? You dont offer solutions. Thats part of feedback. That is what people are forgetting.

2

Oh I don't offer solutions? How do you know that, good sir and or madam? Have you perhaps looked up my forum history? Because only this week I have provided two threads of feedback regarding Nightwave. But hey, keep on assuming. It does you wonders. Also, please quote me saying "The game is not worth playing." It feels to me that you are extrapolating from my comments something that is not there so it could suit your rebuttal.

Quote

Most of them you can complete them in one or two days within a few hours. Normally I need 3 days. Also you can skip up to 13k standing per week and still get to the end. Whats the problem?

Nightwave is not for challenges. They not designed it for this. I also wait for it but Nightwave is not for that kind of players.

The problem is that Nightwave diverts your attention from what you may want to prioritize and forces you, by virtue of its time-exclusivity, to focus on Nora's missions. If I have 5 hours a week to play, and I want to grind, say, Khora or Eidolons, I might not have the time anymore because Nora provides time-limited missions for me to complete or lose the rewards until further notice. Skipping as much as 40% of Nightwave will ensure you don't get the final rewards. Is that enough of a problem for you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

Please just go to feedback and look up Nightwave criticism. There are some seriously intricate suggestions. This is the issue with overgeneralizing. You're basically creating a hostile forum by regarding any form of criticism to Nightwave as "snowflakes whining".  

 

Must've read a different 66 page topic then, because there's nothing intricate about suggestions that boil down to: " "how I can get stuff easier and not do X challenge", people attacking each other, blatant ignorance of what nightave's purpose is, demands that all challenges should fit their exact play style, as if the game should be tailored to them specifically and putting the rose tinted goggles any time alerts are mentioned.

 

The system is overall fine, some tweaks could be added, but either the return of alerts or general overhaul that seem to be suggested are entitlement short and simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, M4T2E said:

Ok, I want to bring it back to constructiv feedback:

I would like to see a system with building up own challenge/difficulty.
You'll always have different players, with different play-styles so it needs a system that can be scaled by themself.
Just a quick base sample:
Earn 100 points by extermination missions (extermination lvl 60 enemies = 25 points; extermination lvl 30 enemies = 10 points; extermination lvl 10 enemies = 2 point).

DE can at least better arrange challenges, make them more thematic, tied to planet, mission type, activity, or something like that

anyway my expectation for s2 is very low

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nitghtwave replaced Alerts as a source of cosmetics, Catalysts and Nitain for newer and less veteran players. Gating it behind fiddly twitch reflex challenges just goes to further undermine an already exclusionary system. No, thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Currently Nightwave isn't that bad, but alerts wasn't that bad too.

I enoy that the pressure of missing items from timelimited alerts is gone.
On the other side, the alerts often carried me over some less interesting times, just by playing alert missions on chain.
Now I take a look into Nightwave and it needs around two days to play my weekly acts and skip the few ones I don't like.
The daily acts are done mostly in under 10 minutes.

So from playing I would prefer the Alerts, but from time pressure I would prefer Nightwave.

The only thing that worries me a bit is the low chance to encounter Wolf of Saturn Six (2x for me), but DE confirmed a higher chance later in this series.

Maybe some players mix up Nightwave Acts with Nightmare Mode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Also, people keep saying you need to average 30k a week, out of 43k, and that's 60%, but it's not. It's 69.76, or 70%.

Either way, that's an absurd participation rate for what will be a daily/weekly grind, where you can't progress faster than X, but you still need to progress faster than Y.

 

You left out the bonus half week which brings it down to 63% without allowing for fugitives. Depending on your luck with fugitives it could push it down as far as 50% or less for some.

Apparently, some players were rank 29 going into week 5. I'm rank 20. I thought I had caught more from Fugitives in a previous post where I estimated the amount but it is only 12450points worth. That makes up 4% of what I need per week to reach rank 30 in 10 weeks. Others are doing much better, and I am sure there are people with much fewer captures.

Those maniacs who have reached rank 29 have caught 78,000 points worth of fugitives. Or 26% of what they needed to reach rank 30.

Maths is your friend. Learn it. Understand it. Embrace it.

The rest of your "legitimate" arguments against Nightwave equate to, "I Can't be bothered doing anything to earn them so give me all the rewards now."

Given the majority of your posts have been attacks on people who have gone out of their way to explain how people have misunderstood aspects of Nightwave, you're just trying to derail the thread. And pointing your fingers at others for what you yourself are doing.

I know people have asked you, but I haven't seen your answer. I may have missed it. But I'd love to know what rank you currently are? And if you have completed any of this week's activities yet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

It's very annoying. Boring as hell.. I'm playing less and less Warframe since the release of nightwave because it's the most boring thing ever, same with the latest event.. wtf is going on 

Just do what you were doing before Nightwave. If you don't look at the activities, you'll probably knock half of them off without even looking at the list.

Meanwhile, I've been having fun blitzing Nightmare missions with beginners. I spent more time reviving players in the last mission than killing the bosses. it is amusing recalling how I used to be that squishy.

I usually do Lua solo, But I'm thinking I will go Public on Lua Mobile defense later this week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

So can we mention for a second how this "wolf" guy is a bad fight? For starters he has a really low spawn rate, and youre not guaranteed the hammer parts when you take him out either, but but when you do fight him it just feels cheap. Like i have six formas and a godly riven in my main and secondary guns and they do 3-4 digit damage to him. Which i could normally deal with but he also spawns with stronger than normal fugitives with the added benefit of being immortal. So your best guns dont really scratch wolf when hes there, but you also take constant fire from these immortal guys you cant take out. If youre going to nerf my damage to about 1% of what I normally do, can we at least not have immortal enemies too? The wolf takes no status and has that damage reduction which just makes it even longer that you have to be getting shot at by these twits. DE pls stahp the immortality 

I have heard the Radiation damage shreds him. I can't speak to the validity of this rumour as the one time I have faced him I was levelling on Hydron and had very low radiation damage on my kitgun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

f that's right then the simple math brings us to 300k out of 473k which brings us squarely into the range of 60-65%.

 

The first half week only had 4 dailies for 40k total.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Knight_Ex said:

Why can't we have challenges that actually relate to what a bunch of us are already doing?? Like farm 1000 kuva in a single day, or Roll a riven 10 times in a week for an elite...seriously who is in charge of coming up with the nightwave challenges??

Yes, let's have everyone burn 35000 Kuva rerolling rivens they don't need to reroll. Given how well received the Ayatan Sculpture, Forma, Modular item and Spector activities were received I'm sure that one would be very popular.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, KnossosTNC said:

That's the Agility one I was talking about. Again, it's... ...not bad. The slightly annoying part is getting to the top after completing it, which is why I try to bring Zephyr for it.

I think the Power, Endurance and Stealth tests are easier. You hardly have to do anything at all in them.

I just do Lua Mobile defense as there is always at least 1 Challenge, and a chance for as many as 3. I still have yet to spot the speed challenge though. It has probably been there, I just never recognized it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

You left out the bonus half week which brings it down to 63% without allowing for fugitives. Depending on your luck with fugitives it could push it down as far as 50% or less for some.

Apparently, some players were rank 29 going into week 5. I'm rank 20. I thought I had caught more from Fugitives in a previous post where I estimated the amount but it is only 12450points worth. That makes up 4% of what I need per week to reach rank 30 in 10 weeks. Others are doing much better, and I am sure there are people with much fewer captures.

Those maniacs who have reached rank 29 have caught 78,000 points worth of fugitives. Or 26% of what they needed to reach rank 30.

Maths is your friend. Learn it. Understand it. Embrace it.

The rest of your "legitimate" arguments against Nightwave equate to, "I Can't be bothered doing anything to earn them so give me all the rewards now."

Given the majority of your posts have been attacks on people who have gone out of their way to explain how people have misunderstood aspects of Nightwave, you're just trying to derail the thread. And pointing your fingers at others for what you yourself are doing.

I know people have asked you, but I haven't seen your answer. I may have missed it. But I'd love to know what rank you currently are? And if you have completed any of this week's activities yet?

26 or 27 I think? Lucked out with a lot of fugitives during the Fortuna event. Again, it's stupid to assume that's fine by design, though. I'm the exception, not the rule. I don't believe in alienating players and making the game worse just because technically I have the time to get by, assuming I don't want to do anything else with it.

Even a 50% participation rate is stupid high as a baseline for something as constant as Nightwave. And what if it ends on a half-week? What if future Nightwave seasons don't have a bonus half-week? It's stupid to assume that these things are assured.

My "attacks" have been against two particular people who have done little to provide legitimate feedback, and have dismissed legitimate criticism with elitism and ignorance, and are rarely much more than pointing that out with a bit of returned condescension for good measure. People complaining that they don't want to participate in Nightwave are still legitimate complaints, if not very direct ones; they don't enjoy the content, and there's a lot of them. Most players don't know why they do or don't like something, and can't tell you why, but you can still get a lot of valuable information from how their complaints are framed, what they complain about specifically, and how many are complaining. Dismissing these people is a good way to make them want to quit, since "well I guess warframe is only for those elitist people".

Nightwave is a terrible system as is, and any quick glance over the forums will tell you as much. I'd rather we discuss how to make it better rather than telling people off for "not doing the math" or "being lazy". Game design isn't the players' job, nor is playing something they don't want to because someone else told them it's good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

I just do Lua Mobile defense as there is always at least 1 Challenge, and a chance for as many as 3. I still have yet to spot the speed challenge though. It has probably been there, I just never recognized it.

It's what looks like a narrow room with an open chamber in the middle with lots of laser plates in it. In actuality, the switches in the laser chamber opens two side rooms that are the Speed tests. Complete them both and a central platform rises, allowing you to access the portal at the top.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Precisely because there are 64 pages to dig through, I'm sure as hell not going to bother. The 60% statistic has been repeated everywhere for more than a week.

Yeah because like the nightwave challenges backing up your claims would require an effort on your part. So would actually reading what people said, apparently. 

 

The 60-65% is right from the devs and unless you have a valid reason to believe that nightwave standing won't be accumulated over "10 weeks and 4 days" , all you are doing is parroting the bad maths presented by some random on reddit who was working with extremely limited information at the time back in the first few days of Nightwave. As I said most of us have managed to move on from that because of new information, and we're not trying to convince people that the sky is falling. The current estimate of standing needed by someone who only does the challenges is closer to 63%. That figure is squarely in range of what we were told. AND THAT'S BEFORE WE FACTOR IN THE CONVICTS. So yeah, 60% is probably really all many people will need. 

The 30k/3 tiers per week minimum holds to the very strict 10 weeks, because the math is simpler for most people to follow. And let's be honest here, it seems like quite a few people have trouble following even that.

It's not being presented as the same at all. But you can keep trying to fool people with more of your bogus claims... Speaking of which.... 

7 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

The part I don't like is that nightwave as-is is garbage, and I've explained why repeatedly. You keep on trying to be elitist because "oh you just don't like effort", but again, I already explained what is wrong with nightwave and why, and effort certainly isn't a factor.

I'm still MR 16 after a year. I haven't bothered to complete all of the quests, I'm lacking quite a few of the non-prime frames, and I hav know what repeatedly identified myself as a filthy casual. Your claim of elitism is a rather silly ad hominem, but it takes almost no effort to make such a claim, so I'm not really surprised that you would try that. 

Your reasoning for Nightwave being trash included such gems as: we should be able to buy the rewards instead of participating, not letting us do that will kill the game; I hate being forced to meet specific goals in specific mission types, which is exactly how alerts used to work, and I admit that I skipped at least 99.9% of all alerts; completing the challenges would not take me less than 5 minutes each, so nightwave is trash; and of course the grapes on that vine look like they are still green, they are probably sour, I don't want them and will try to convince everyone else that they are not worth the effort too

7 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I've also explained what's a chore and why, and how nightwave makes it a chore, which you continue to ignore, like everything else.

If you don't want me calling you out for doing the things, stop doing the things. Better yet, stop trolling a feedback thread with "you just don't like effort" "you just don't understand" "you're just too casual" whatever garbage you keep using as an excuse to disregard legitimate feedback from actual players.

Nonsense. You've said that a chore is anything that you don't feel like doing at any given time. Nobody ignored that. We may have considered it ridiculous, but by and large we left you to your spurious definition. 

And again you're not calling anyone out. You are using ad hominem attacks, which is usually a tactic used by people who don't have valid points to back up their arguments. I've quoted you in almost every single reply that you got, highlighting the points I am addressing, so that everyone can see what I am replying to. 

Also I strongly believe that my responses to your claims are valid because from the very beginning you've made false claims with no real backing, including calling someone a liar for saying that they generally only get 6 hours of sleep on most days. 

I'm not the one who has tried to stifle feedback here. I am not the one telling people to stop posting. That's still on you. 

 

7 hours ago, (NSW)Hatemachine said:

Getting a story out, ok I like this, they should & need to do more, they nabbed it from The Warriors movie, take it all the way, because it worked & it gives the game a little more depth.

Rewards are paltry if not more so than alerts were, emblems & emotes are not worth the effort & screws new players over by putting easy to obtain mods in a rewards section, if you know the value of Nitain & somone was about to spend their wolf credits on say, rifle amp, would you tell them to do it or say dude heres an extra for free dont buy that crap.

Uh, the actual story seems to be the trope of model convict doing his time, cruel warden pushed him too far, escapes and hunts down evil warden. Nora is just the narrator. 

And the alert rewards are unchanged. The difference is that we can choose which ones we want to buy with the cred we've accumulated. The sigils, emblems, and emotes are event rewards, and not replacements for the alert rewards. Nitain is valuable only to those who need it. Even under the old system people used to just skip the nitain alerts, only to find out that there was something that they wanted and then they'd complain about it not being available when they want it. Fortunately it's relatively cheap and the new system makes it fairly abundant for the newer players. Instead of telling them what to buy, I've been trying to find ways to help others complete the challenges. 

I've taken people fishing with my bait, I've run that Silver grove mission quite a bit over the past few days, because apparently a lot of people just never bothered to scan any plants. Many of the challenges locked behind gear checks are of a type where we can help others to bypass it. I'm not hurt by doing it, and others benefit. 

I figure that's how we can make the Nightwave challenges better, by doing what some people have always done, helping one another. Not by pretending to be too good for it, or that the challenges aren't things that are integral parts of the game we all play. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, M4T2E said:

Ok, I want to bring it back to constructiv feedback:

I would like to see a system with building up own challenge/difficulty.
You'll always have different players, with different play-styles so it needs a system that can be scaled by themself.
Just a quick base sample:
Earn 100 points by extermination missions (extermination lvl 60 enemies = 25 points; extermination lvl 30 enemies = 10 points; extermination lvl 10 enemies = 2 point).

That's a pretty good idea actually. But, I think it doesn't address the underlying issue of the expiry date forcing players to play in a way they don't enjoy, just to not miss out on the rewards.

The biggest issue with nightwave, imo, continues to be that it's both time gated in terms of progress, but also in terms of it's expiry, putting pressure on the player to play on the game's schedule, and not their own.

 

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Yeah because like the nightwave challenges backing up your claims would require an effort on your part. So would actually reading what people said, apparently. 

 

The 60-65% is right from the devs and unless you have a valid reason to believe that nightwave standing won't be accumulated over "10 weeks and 4 days" , all you are doing is parroting the bad maths presented by some random on reddit who was working with extremely limited information at the time back in the first few days of Nightwave. As I said most of us have managed to move on from that because of new information, and we're not trying to convince people that the sky is falling. The current estimate of standing needed by someone who only does the challenges is closer to 63%. That figure is squarely in range of what we were told. AND THAT'S BEFORE WE FACTOR IN THE CONVICTS. So yeah, 60% is probably really all many people will need. 

The 30k/3 tiers per week minimum holds to the very strict 10 weeks, because the math is simpler for most people to follow. And let's be honest here, it seems like quite a few people have trouble following even that.

It's not being presented as the same at all. But you can keep trying to fool people with more of your bogus claims... Speaking of which.... 

I'm still MR 16 after a year. I haven't bothered to complete all of the quests, I'm lacking quite a few of the non-prime frames, and I hav know what repeatedly identified myself as a filthy casual. Your claim of elitism is a rather silly ad hominem, but it takes almost no effort to make such a claim, so I'm not really surprised that you would try that. 

Your reasoning for Nightwave being trash included such gems as: we should be able to buy the rewards instead of participating, not letting us do that will kill the game; I hate being forced to meet specific goals in specific mission types, which is exactly how alerts used to work, and I admit that I skipped at least 99.9% of all alerts; completing the challenges would not take me less than 5 minutes each, so nightwave is trash; and of course the grapes on that vine look like they are still green, they are probably sour, I don't want them and will try to convince everyone else that they are not worth the effort too

Nonsense. You've said that a chore is anything that you don't feel like doing at any given time. Nobody ignored that. We may have considered it ridiculous, but by and large we left you to your spurious definition. 

And again you're not calling anyone out. You are using ad hominem attacks, which is usually a tactic used by people who don't have valid points to back up their arguments. I've quoted you in almost every single reply that you got, highlighting the points I am addressing, so that everyone can see what I am replying to. 

Also I strongly believe that my responses to your claims are valid because from the very beginning you've made false claims with no real backing, including calling someone a liar for saying that they generally only get 6 hours of sleep on most days. 

I'm not the one who has tried to stifle feedback here. I am not the one telling people to stop posting. That's still on you.

Actually, I did the math on the numbers presented to me in this topic, that didn't add up with the other numbers presented to me in this topic. And then people got uppity about it. Mostly you, and your elitism.

Elitism of casualness is still elitism, and is just as common as elitism of hardcoreness. Just look at all the silly console gamers that get mad at anyone who has higher standards of performance than 60fps, or at people who want higher refreshrate displays. Elitism is elitism. It doesn't matter if it's low bar elitism or not.

I didn't say we should be able to buy rewards, I said a time gated system where there isn't a way to bypass it is bad because not everyone has the time. That's how everything else in warframe has been and what makes it an attractive product, but of course, acknowledging what I actually said would be inconvenient for your elitism.

I seriously doubt anyone played even 10% of Warframe's alerts. That's just silly to pretend everyone did them all. And elitist, again.

I explained why it's a chore, too, and you ignored that in order to twist what was said to suit your elitism.

From the very beginning, you've made false claims of what others have been saying, as well as about nightwave, and about yourself. Usually for the sake of your elitism.

I never told anyone to stop providing feedback. I asked you to stop derailing the feedback thread with your elitism and trolling, so that we can make nightwave better, rather than more elitist.

Also, for good measure, elitism

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

It's what looks like a narrow room with an open chamber in the middle with lots of laser plates in it. In actuality, the switches in the laser chamber opens two side rooms that are the Speed tests. Complete them both and a central platform rises, allowing you to access the portal at the top.

Oh, is that how that works?

Assuming I'm thinking about the right one; it's the one with two glowing switches at either exit of the room, two press balls, and a bunch of inactive laser panels?

I never did figure out wtf to do in there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, KnossosTNC said:

3 Assassination missions
Find all caches in 3 Sabotage missions
8 Plains of Eidolon Bounties
Kill 500 enemies
3 Spy missions
3 Mobile Defense missions
Open 4 Orokin Derelict vaults
(Elite) 4 Lua Halls of Ascension
(Elite) 3 Rounds of Elite Sanctuary Onslaught
(Elite) 10 Nightmare Missions


Thanks, KnosssosTNC, for the list.


This totals to 39 missions. The only one of these I benefit from is the 8 PoE bounties. This makes it 31 chores for the week = many hours of boring busywork.

Please,
1) bin the whole Chorewave
2) bring back alerts
3) use money & resources for making,
3.1) quests
3.2) another enemy faction
3.3) more maps

not like this GIF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

26 or 27 I think? Lucked out with a lot of fugitives during the Fortuna event. Again, it's stupid to assume that's fine by design, though. I'm the exception, not the rule. I don't believe in alienating players and making the game worse just because technically I have the time to get by, assuming I don't want to do anything else with it.

Even a 50% participation rate is stupid high as a baseline for something as constant as Nightwave. And what if it ends on a half-week? What if future Nightwave seasons don't have a bonus half-week? It's stupid to assume that these things are assured.

My "attacks" have been against two particular people who have done little to provide legitimate feedback, and have dismissed legitimate criticism with elitism and ignorance, and are rarely much more than pointing that out with a bit of returned condescension for good measure. People complaining that they don't want to participate in Nightwave are still legitimate complaints, if not very direct ones; they don't enjoy the content, and there's a lot of them. Most players don't know why they do or don't like something, and can't tell you why, but you can still get a lot of valuable information from how their complaints are framed, what they complain about specifically, and how many are complaining. Dismissing these people is a good way to make them want to quit, since "well I guess warframe is only for those elitist people".

Nightwave is a terrible system as is, and any quick glance over the forums will tell you as much. I'd rather we discuss how to make it better rather than telling people off for "not doing the math" or "being lazy". Game design isn't the players' job, nor is playing something they don't want to because someone else told them it's good.

1

Congrats, for a person who complains about how much of a chore it is you have done way more than me, a person who is enjoying it.

50% participation is extremely generous to get all the rewards. 

I've provided plenty of legitimate feedback. Just because you don't like that some of my feedback is explaining to people whose complaints are clear misunderstandings of Night Wave, how they have misunderstood something and how they have nothing to be concerned about does not change the fact it is legitimate. Feedback is not just complaints and negative outlooks. Feedback is also positive and supportive. 

A lot of people complaints about night wave are legitimate, Like Ayatans, Gilding, Forma. 8 bounties, and Spectors. I agree with their complaints on those. But complaining about something that is not true, simply because people don't understand, or because people want everything right now, is not legitimate.
 

There is nothing elitist about Nightwave, and I get that you don't like it so you like to elevate the fearmongering complaints that are based on misunderstandings. But constructive feedback on their complaints is legitimate.
 

Any quick glance over the forum will tell me that 4% of the player base may not be happy with it. And part of that percentage just like to complain about changes while engaging with it more than anyone else.
 

I don't tell people off "for not doing the math." There is no such thing as math.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Oh, is that how that works?

Assuming I'm thinking about the right one; it's the one with two glowing switches at either exit of the room, two press balls, and a bunch of inactive laser panels?

I never did figure out wtf to do in there.

Yeah, I think I may have run passed it a once or twice not realising. Imma need to watch more videos and try and memorize it I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Congrats, for a person who complains about how much of a chore it is you have done way more than me, a person who is enjoying it.

50% participation is extremely generous to get all the rewards. 

I've provided plenty of legitimate feedback. Just because you don't like that some of my feedback is explaining to people whose complaints are clear misunderstandings of Night Wave, how they have misunderstood something and how they have nothing to be concerned about does not change the fact it is legitimate. Feedback is not just complaints and negative outlooks. Feedback is also positive and supportive. 

A lot of people complaints about night wave are legitimate, Like Ayatans, Gilding, Forma. 8 bounties, and Spectors. I agree with their complaints on those. But complaining about something that is not true, simply because people don't understand, or because people want everything right now, is not legitimate.
 

There is nothing elitist about Nightwave, and I get that you don't like it so you like to elevate the fearmongering complaints that are based on misunderstandings. But constructive feedback on their complaints is legitimate.
 

Any quick glance over the forum will tell me that 4% of the player base may not be happy with it. And part of that percentage just like to complain about changes while engaging with it more than anyone else.
 

I don't tell people off "for not doing the math." There is no such thing as math.

50% participation rate is not generous. This isn't something you can do at your own pace, you have to do it at the pace it sets, at the time it tells you to. 50% is nowhere near generous for something like that. Even PSO2 only requires TACOs weekly now, and it's the golden turd for wasting my goddamn time. Warframe being worse than that is not a good sign.

Dismissive "feedback" is not feedback, it's just dismissive.

Complaining about it being a chore is very legitimate, and there are a lot of reasons that make it a chore. Dismissing that as illegitimate because you think doing 50% of the doubly time gated thing is fine does not make those concerns not legitimate.

Nightwave is just a thing in a game, but the dismissive attitude towards players with concerns is elitist, and gives players the impression that they aren't wanted unless they jump through those hoops.

4% actively complaining is a lot, actually. Vast majority of WF players will never look at the forum, but Nightwave has been the hot topic since it came out, and most of it has been about what's wrong with it for a reason; there's a lot wrong with it. It needs fixing. Telling people "no no it's fine the way it is you're just wrong to not like this" isn't helping it improve. Same with the broken enemy design in Orb Vallis. There's nothing acceptable about every enemy having a nullifier bubble with no satelite, or enemies spawning completely invulnerable to everything, or turning invincible frequently, or having super-fast shield regeneration that builds overshields constantly.

There are things that need some fixing, and telling people to not complain about them isn't going to fix those things. I'd rather see Warframe be the best game it can be, and not just good enough for people with low standards.

 

It also has a further unfortunate side effect of highlighting the problems with other areas of the game, because you're forced into playing content again that was dropped because it wasn't fun. If people are only logging in to play until they get a reward, there's a problem with the game's design. It's not because you don't have enough carrots on enough sticks, it's because the content isn't holding up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...