Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[Enialyx]

9 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Sleep is for more than beauty. It's very unhealthy to get less than 8~10hr nightly, contrary to what american culture will tell you.

 

Indeed it is. Lack of sleep can destroy your health, end your career and break your family.

Get enough sleep, tenno!

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

32 minutes ago, TheFBD said:

I completely agree with your post and wanted to add to this point. Everyone who played warframe for a bit knows that alerts were a big help for new players. Getting ressources, credits etc. And if they could not do the mission, or the mission type was not their kind, they could just skip it and wait for the same reward showing up with a different mission. That was the beauty of random alerts. They were random. And randomness is fair (even though we usually (unreasonably) doubt that when RNG jesus is not on our side)

Uh... Isn't that still true? In fact, many of the challenges aren't locked to any given mission type, or planetary node that may not be unlocked yet. Which means that they can complete the vast majority of the challenges on the starter planet with starter enemies. 

Isn't that a benefit over the old system? 

36 minutes ago, TheFBD said:

This also worked fine for advanced players. I never got up late at night just because there was an alert with something i need/want. I think hardly anyone did. And that's fine because you know it will come around again. AFAIR the longest rotation in the old alerts was the "rarest" vauban part which only showed up once a month. When i was getting him, i missed the first two times it showed up, passed on the third time (spy mission, hate those, thanks, pass). But got it the next time. That's fine and straightforward.

So having to wait several months is fin and in your book as opposed to letting people pick which rewards they want? 

 

39 minutes ago, TheFBD said:

And then we don't know when the next time will be we can "participate" - assuming it's a recurring event at all. Nightwave is apparently endlessly repeating (and so will be the challenges), but if the Wolf of Saturn Six will ever come around again? Nobody knows. So we are locked on what we play with an artifical time limit - if we don't want to miss out. Try explaining nightwave to a returning player who looks at it for the first time today. Well, better hope you're around when it starts again, in like 6-8 months. Maybe.

Okay here goes "hey Tenno, we're in the middle of an event. Just like every other event there's a start and a finish. We gotta get 300k standing over 10 weeks to get the max rank rewards. You're unlikely to be able to get that from challenges, but it might still be possible to capture the convicts and get pretty close, but honestly I wouldn't do that to myself, if I was you. 

But hey most stuff seems to come back around so keep your fingers crossed. Let me know if you need help and I'll try to do it if I can. Good luck. "

 

16 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Sleep is for more than beauty. It's very unhealthy to get less than 8~10hr nightly, contrary to what american culture will tell you. Lack of sleep might even explain your terrible attitude. Heck, a good night's might even help you read what's written instead of just what you make up in your head.

I'm not an American and don't really know what their sleep culture is. I do know what polyphasic sleep is though. Also I know that it's not unusual for people to be in situations where they don't get to have 8 hours+ a night, so I definitely wouldn't call someone a liar over that. 

I would consider calling someone a liar if they constantly tried to distort the truth, evade answering simple questions, and refused to back their claims up with proof. But I figure that everyone who's interested enough can already see that that's your MO. 😉

 

25 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

If the rewards from the linear progression were insignificant, I would agree. If you could play it at your own pace instead of being told to constantly speed up and slow down, I would agree. As of right now, it's a game paced like a job that demands more than half your weeks.

Do you really need that one umbral forma or the Wolf armour to be able to play the game where you seem to find so much of the content distasteful? 

And given the sheer number of people who say that they're playing less hours now, I have to ask, have you been playing significantly more hours instead? 

And aren't many of the challenges just integral parts of the game that many people might do in a given week anyway? 

[NezuHimeSama]

I didn't call you a liar, I said your post stinks. Because it did and does, like I said. Like you continue to ignore.

Encouraging people to get less than 8 hours a night, though, is bad, and you should feel bad for doing that.

 

Most of the challenges are irrelevant, inaccessible, obnoxious, or pointless. Why force someone to ESO if they don't want the drops there? Why even bother to have a "kill 500 enemies" or "complete one mission"?

Of course, none of that would be a problem if the content didn't constantly expire, with a giant expiry date on the entire thing.

[M4T2E]

vor einer Stunde schrieb (PS4)guzmantt1977:

Not time gate, effort required to complete the challenge. Vets can often kill the same number of higher level enemies without much more effort than it would take a newb to kill the low ranked enemies. So why should the newb who needs as many of the first 24 ranks as possible, have to do 10x more work? Doesn't really seem fair. 

Hm, the only thing I could imagine to make it equal to newb and vet could be a strict preset in mission and loadout.
So maybe a mission you play with a specific warframe and with preset weapons (playable even if you don't own the items).
Could also be a nice feature for newbs to check out warframes and weapons they don't really own.

[BombtailsTheFox]

3 hours ago, Enialyx said:

Thanks, KnosssosTNC, for the list.

This totals to 39 missions. The only one of these I benefit from is the 8 PoE bounties. This makes it 31 chores for the week = many hours of boring busywork.

Please,
1) bin the whole Chorewave
2) bring back alerts
3) use money & resources for making,
3.1) quests
3.2) another enemy faction
3.3) more maps

Why even consider this, when Alert can co-exist with Nightwave?

Yes, Nightwave has flaws, but why giving up for rewards that are obtained by doing challenges, and return to a system where you have to log to get a reward before it leaves, as well as logging every 4 hours for a nitain extract, hoping to build something that has them in the build? Why those two can't be put in the same time? So that, other than doing challenges, you do alerts that gives you something?

Also, you seem to have forgot that Orokin Vaults has corrupted mods, which are useful for some builds.

[RX-3DR]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Not time gate, effort required to complete the challenge. Vets can often kill the same number of higher level enemies without much more effort than it would take a newb to kill the low ranked enemies. So why should the newb who needs as many of the first 24 ranks as possible, have to do 10x more work? Doesn't really seem fair. 

That's what Eidolons are though. New players will struggle to get more than just 1 fight down in a single night while a more experienced group can double or triple the value in the same time window. Within the same time frame, a new player would get significantly less Arcanes than an older one. Generally, large portions of the game are like this too such as Standing, gathering resources, etc.

The whole point is that you're adding alternatives for more experienced groups. If the current objectives are apparently fine by what some people seem to be claiming, then I don't see why it's suddenly a problem to actually value even the newbies to strive for more than just level 10 enemies. This mostly targets weeklies which opens up the floor for new players as well to decide if they want to push for progression during the first half of the week so that they can have a smoother experience with clearing up Nightwave later rather than being subjected to a level 10 - 15 Bounty 8 times over an hour even if he's already past that stage.

Unless all of that is a problem and we should only allow players to complete 1 Eidolon run per night cycle and remove the standing limit increase to keep the consistency with newer players. 

[Enialyx]

17 minutes ago, BombtailsTheFox said:

Also, you seem to have forgot that Orokin Vaults has corrupted mods, which are useful for some builds.

 

I'm MR 25. I have all the vaulted mods. They hold nothing for me.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

34 minutes ago, M4T2E said:

Hm, the only thing I could imagine to make it equal to newb and vet could be a strict preset in mission and loadout.
So maybe a mission you play with a specific warframe and with preset weapons (playable even if you don't own the items).
Could also be a nice feature for newbs to check out warframes and weapons they don't really own.

As opposed to just setting the condition of "kill x enemies" and letting them play according to their own abilities and needs? A newb can do it in Lith, and vets can do Hydron or ESO if that is what they feel like doing. The weak newb has weak enemies, and the vet can face off on whatever level they would normally be killing anyway. 

Seems simpler. 

 

Letting newbs use other gear would make an interesting mode though. 

 

11 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

That's what Eidolons are though. New players will struggle to get more than just 1 fight down in a single night while a more experienced group can double or triple the value in the same time window. Within the same time frame, a new player would get significantly less Arcanes than an older one. Generally, large portions of the game are like this too such as Standing, gathering resources, etc.

The whole point is that you're adding alternatives for more experienced groups. If the current objectives are apparently fine by what some people seem to be claiming, then I don't see why it's suddenly a problem to actually value even the newbies to strive for more than just level 10 enemies. This mostly targets weeklies which opens up the floor for new players as well to decide if they want to push for progression during the first half of the week so that they can have a smoother experience with clearing up Nightwave later rather than being subjected to a level 10 - 15 Bounty 8 times over an hour even if he's already past that stage.

Unless all of that is a problem and we should only allow players to complete 1 Eidolon run per night cycle and remove the standing limit increase to keep the consistency with newer players. 

And hour long survivals, and sorties, and profit taker. But those are already "endgame" that effectively lock most newbs out. 

Recall that nightwave is 2 things in one. It's a replacement for the alerts as well as an event with event specific rewards. The newbs need to be able to earn those creds, and enough to be able to get a reasonable number of those cred store offerings. It's not meant to be a omgwtfbbq challenge intended only for the endgame community. That's why I'm making an effort to help carry when and where I can. 

If you can run solo 5x3's that's great, but demanding that newbs de able to do the same isn't really reasonable. Better to let them do their thing in the starter zone than force them to try stuff they have no hope of completing. 

 

[random__noob]

Up till now my feedback was pretty much positive, but this week is an absurd piece of $*** in terms of quests.

DE: there has been feedback. Dont tell me you didnt see that. We didnt WANT to run 40 missions. And we sure as HELL dont want to run spy on Lua with a pub team that searches for the Halls of Annoyance while we stealth around for 150 endo rewards.

Wake up! If you keep the quests like THAT there will be fatigue. Pretty soon too, because the weeks are back to back to back to back to back to back to....

Keep the system, adjust the quests.

EDIT: Food for thought: There is a quest system implemented into the game that doesnt try to bore us to death by saying "Do 10 nightmare missions, even though you by now have everything they are good for and it is just plain annoying when we make EVERY nightmare mission have Energy Drain Modifier"

Give us Riven-Like quest cards instead of this endurance test, stuff like "Kill 10 enemies (while wall running) (and while you only have a melee weapon equipped) (and while undetected). The higher your mastery, the more of these modifiers are added. Then allow us to reroll these quests by spending Nano Spores, Gallium and Alloy Plates if we think they suck. The more you played the game, the less patience and use you will have for stuff like the suggested 10 nightmare missions or 4 Vault runs. You think I enjoy stuffing another Overextended into my collection? Especially now since so many people were forced to do Vault runs, now EVERYBODY has them and they are absolutely useless?

Give us a combination-challenge system that we can reroll if we feel its ridiculous. Make the Quest difficulty depend on the mastery. If you think it is too hard, you can reroll the quest by using resources with ONE recepie keeping the mastery difficulty the same, one leveling the difficulty up and one leveling the difficulty down. Please use resources we HAVE for being patient with the game for many years, not resources you think are fancy and we think are garbage, like Arbitration Essence (its garbage and you know it)

Edited April 1, 2019 by random__noob

[RX-3DR]

Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And hour long survivals, and sorties, and profit taker. But those are already "endgame" that effectively lock most newbs out. 

Recall that nightwave is 2 things in one. It's a replacement for the alerts as well as an event with event specific rewards. The newbs need to be able to earn those creds, and enough to be able to get a reasonable number of those cred store offerings. It's not meant to be a omgwtfbbq challenge intended only for the endgame community. That's why I'm making an effort to help carry when and where I can. 

If you can run solo 5x3's that's great, but demanding that newbs de able to do the same isn't really reasonable. Better to let them do their thing in the starter zone than force them to try stuff they have no hope of completing. 

But the was no mention about removing newbie friendly access from the missions. Right now, outside of a few specific challenges that may or may not be easy for you to leech your way through anyways, the majority of missions simply do not offer anything to older players other than pure tedium on the lowest difficulty.  New players can still complete them in the starter zone while anyone who has been on the game for a decent amount of time can clear them at the level they are at without just being completely penalized on the time it takes to get the task out of the way.

[--END--Rikutatis]

Is it just me, or are this week's challenges almost an exact copy and paste of the challenges from 2 weeks ago? 

I hope DE isn't already running out of challenges 4-5 weeks into Nightwave ... 

[NezuHimeSama]

10 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

Is it just me, or are this week's challenges almost an exact copy and paste of the challenges from 2 weeks ago? 

I hope DE isn't already running out of challenges 4-5 weeks into Nightwave ... 

We've been getting repeats pretty much since the start.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

53 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

But the was no mention about removing newbie friendly access from the missions. Right now, outside of a few specific challenges that may or may not be easy for you to leech your way through anyways, the majority of missions simply do not offer anything to older players other than pure tedium on the lowest difficulty.  New players can still complete them in the starter zone while anyone who has been on the game for a decent amount of time can clear them at the level they are at without just being completely penalized on the time it takes to get the task out of the way.

Uh.... 2 pages ago a suggestion was made for a change that would require newbs to run a greater number of missions with lower ranked enemies and vets to do fewer missions against higher ranked enemies.

 

9 hours ago, M4T2E said:

Ok, I want to bring it back to constructiv feedback:

I would like to see a system with building up own challenge/difficulty.
You'll always have different players, with different play-styles so it needs a system that can be scaled by themself.
Just a quick base sample:
Earn 100 points by extermination missions (extermination lvl 60 enemies = 25 points; extermination lvl 30 enemies = 10 points; extermination lvl 10 enemies = 2 point).

Many in the endgame community would tell us that level 60 enemies don't pose a significant challenge to them. Whereas newbs may find themselves having to revive because they get downed repeatedly against those level 10 enemies. Why would you want to make them have to do it many more times than what is probably a lesser challenge for you? That is not a fair proposal, even if I may benefit as well. 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I didn't call you a liar, I said your post stinks. Because it did and does, like I said. Like you continue to ignore.

Encouraging people to get less than 8 hours a night, though, is bad, and you should feel bad for doing that.

 

Most of the challenges are irrelevant, inaccessible, obnoxious, or pointless. Why force someone to ESO if they don't want the drops there? Why even bother to have a "kill 500 enemies" or "complete one mission"?

Of course, none of that would be a problem if the content didn't constantly expire, with a giant expiry date on the entire thing.

And I didn't say that you called me anything of the sort. I pointed out repeatedly and clearly that you attacked someone who said that they don't usually get 8+ hours of sleep a night, and suggested that they are a liar because of that. Do try and keep better track of what's going on. 

And sorry but most humans don't need 8+ hours of sleep each night at all. 

 

And again with the whole "I'm a victim being forced to do this"? Come on. You have the same choices as any of the rest of us. Most of us have chosen to try and get the tier rewards. It seems, if we are to believe what you have said, that you are significantly more advanced in the Nightwave tiers than many of the other people. That means that you have specifically chosen to do far more than a lot of the people who aren't claiming to be forced. 

And again the objective of nightwave was to get us to at least try to do things that we don't normally do in the game. So, why take part in ESO if you don't want the rewards? Answer seems to be, "because there are other rewards that you do apparently want to get". Neat, huh? 

Why bother to have a challenge to kill 500 enemies? Answer seems to be, "because that's a central concept to our 3rd person horde shooting, hack and slash". 

Why bother to have complete one mission? Again it's obvious that the answer is going to be "because Warframe is about doing missions". 

And the fact that there's a limited time to get them done... The shortest timer seems to be a day (or 3 depending on how you look at it) and a week is more common. That's pretty generous in terms of both previous alerts and events. Why would such a long time be considered "too little" for someone to kill 500 enemies or find someone to help them do 3 waves of ESO? 

[Yousho]

As somebody who's just come back from a break, I've noticed two things: 
-I'm pretty much screwed for this event 
-They still haven't released another frame that's actually good at high level content

[Chaos.Blades]

What really hooked me on Warframe is that I could do what I want whenever I want and I have all the time in the world to do it. Now I actively try not to log in due to the anxiety of having a big list of chores I don't want to do with timers counting down. I am a completionist but at the same time, I want to complete things on my own time. Up until now, the game has allowed me to do this. I know there is a timer ticking down how long I have before I won't get enough points to max out all 30 ranks and get the armor set. I have just completely burnt myself out on these tasks. It also feels bad when it tells me "Gild an Amp" but I have already gilded all the amps. This makes me feel like the time I spent on doing this was wasted. So basically I am doing this thing just to throw it away. Which is just cementing this in my brain as a chore list. It has just really had an overall negative effect on me where I avoid the game now. It also reminds me of work were you also get a list of mundane tasks to complete. I get off work to play Warframe to not be told what I have to do by someone anymore, not to get another list of tasks to complete in order to literally also get paid. What has been imagined cannot be unimagined. I now correlate Warframe with my job to some regard. This is not good.

So like Steve said. You have a group of people that just want some direction and Nightwave is great. Then you have a group of people that don't want to be told what they have to do and how long they have to do it. I definitely got the negative end of this. If the ranks didn't have any exclusive content I would be at ease with ignoring it but like I said... completionist. At least 1 copy of every mod I have is maxed rank and I have them all but like 20 or so. This includes every prime mod. On one end "must have all the things", on the other "Bro, I'm straight-up not having a good time."

Edited April 1, 2019 by Chaos.Blades

[Enialyx]

3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And sorry but most humans don't need 8+ hours of sleep each night at all. 

 

Blatant bs that promotes abuse and damages health.

[(XBOX)Tornicade]

Really hoping we get seasonal challenges .. This would really open up alot of challenges.. Forma was the only thing i found useful from alerts... Outside of fragor i dont think i really actually made any weapons...catalyst typically from catalyst...and as i mentioned before ...never seen a reactor alert from december on....new players have nodes to work and the first 6 quest to complete.

If some of you are really concerned about newplayers (i got way more forma from nightwave after two weeks than alerts..) then stop telling them they need 50 warframes and weapons to mr...stop telling them that they have to be this frame or that frame to do a mission and stop telling them not to auto group...your severely hampering their experience unlike night wave which gives them extra rewards to kill what they are working on....tutorial is biggest need for new players and it will probably include tips about nightwave.

 

 

 

 

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

I have to say, NW stress me the hell out- but not for reasons people have stated.

 NW is a huge stressor not because I feel it’s another chore, but rather ‘is this particular NW challenge going to work.’

Case and point, we ran two sabotage missions in the Orokin derelict. Two birds one stone, right? First time went smoothly- got all caches and the dragon keys. 

 Second time, we got the vault mod and the three caches- but it didn’t count.

 The vault was counted 2/4 times, but the caches read 1/3. Sure I can go to another sabotage, but it really puts the stress on me (and my fiance) when something isn’t working like it should- especially NW which we just want to get done.

[(XBOX)Tornicade]

36 minutes ago, Enialyx said:

 

Blatant bs that promotes abuse and damages health.

[Enialyx]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Tornicade said:

- sleep recommendation chart -

 

This does not mean that everyone or even most adults need just 7 hours of sleep. Rather it means, that 7 hours is the minimum amount of sleep some adults can sleep and maintain their health.

The average for adults remains ~8 hours, even in that chart.

Per the site, too few make that ~8 hours a priority. Many have forgotten what being "truly rested" feels like. Light from electronic devices (such as when playing Warframe) interferes with proper sleep.

Too little and poor quality sleep for completing Nightwave challenges is definitely not recommended.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Enialyx

[(XBOX)Tornicade]

25 minutes ago, Enialyx said:

 

This does not mean that everyone or even most adults need just 7 hours of sleep. Rather it means, that 7 hours is the minimum amount of sleep some adults can sleep and maintain their health.

The average for adults remains ~8 hours, even in that chart.

Per the site, too few make that ~8 hours a priority. Many have forgotten what being "truly rested" feels like. Light from electronic devices (such as when playing Warframe) interferes with proper sleep.

Too little and poor quality sleep for completing Nightwave challenges is definitely not recommended.

It says 6 hours if appropriate....peoples energy and metabolism dictate how much sleep they need. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, Enialyx said:

 

Blatant bs that promotes abuse and damages health.

The phrases "medical resident work hours", and "polyphasic sleep" suggest that you don't know what you think you know. (Notice how civil and polite I was in my response?) 

And nobody suggested sleep deprivation for finishing nightwave content. That barely adds up to a few hours per week, spread out over multiple days. But telling someone that they're lying if they admit that they don't get enough sleep, is both ridiculous and wrong. I'll let dig back through the thread and see who was doing that if you want to. 

2 hours ago, Chaos.Blades said:

I am a completionist but at the same time, I want to complete things on my own time. Up until now, the game has allowed me to do this.

I'm sorry, but the acolytes event... How long did it last? And were you able to gradually farm those mods once or twice per day until you got all that interested you with no end in sight? 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

 On the topic.  DE needs to keep investing in the power of (informed) choice:

1.  Let the community know ahead of time that there will be a CHOICE to purchase end-event cosmetics and weapon blueprints.  

2.  Make sure that this option only becomes available at the end of 10 weeks.

The power of choice:  Satisfying the diverse community and the business model at the same time.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

20 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:

Which is precisely why you engaged in several-comments-long pissing contest. Yup, I see your point.

And rather than ignoring it, you decide to come along and pour gasoline onto the fire. Idiot.