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[DE]Bear

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Oh, is that how that works?

Assuming I'm thinking about the right one; it's the one with two glowing switches at either exit of the room, two press balls, and a bunch of inactive laser panels?

I never did figure out wtf to do in there.

Yup, sounds like it. Just hit the switch in the room, then look for a door that opens on the side.

1 hour ago, Enialyx said:


Thanks, KnosssosTNC, for the list.


This totals to 39 missions. The only one of these I benefit from is the 8 PoE bounties. This makes it 31 chores for the week = many hours of boring busywork.

Please,
1) bin the whole Chorewave
2) bring back alerts
3) use money & resources for making,
3.1) quests
3.2) another enemy faction
3.3) more maps

not like this GIF

Meh. As I said, I pair them up together, or with stuff I already do. I've just completed both the Mobile Defense one and the Nightmares one together a few moments ago. I've also completed the Lua Ascension Halls one and the Spy ones together. I'm currently farming for Kavat DNA, so all I had to do is carry a Dragon Key or two with my Ivara. I'll wait for Equinox Prime or next Unvaulting to do the Bounties one. As I said, piece of cake.

And I've already made my opinions clear about what I think of Alerts: I do not miss the disruptions it has caused on my daily life. Being able to go to bed or go out shopping without sparing even a single iota of thought on Warframe is a blessing.

Nightwave is far from perfect, as I've also made clear. There are issues with the effort-versus-reward balance, and its does not match the Alerts' instant-reward loop. But those things can be improved, and Nightwave does accomplish the fundamental objective of eliminating the Alerts' RNG and snooze-and-lose.

If DE are going to replace Nightwave, I will only accept a system that similarly eliminates the Alerts' RNG and snooze-and-lose.

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I think it's clear that the thing to do is fix the glaring issues with nightwave, rather than replace all that work that went into it. Most of it's problems are really stupid and really obvious and really really easy to fix.

But, you could say that about a lot of things in warframe lately.

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9 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

50% participation rate is not generous. This isn't something you can do at your own pace, you have to do it at the pace it sets, at the time it tells you to. 50% is nowhere near generous for something like that. Even PSO2 only requires TACOs weekly now, and it's the golden turd for wasting my goddamn time. Warframe being worse than that is not a good sign

 

It is extremely generous. 75% to get all the rewards would still be acceptable. You are not supposed to get all the rewards if you don't put in a decent effort. You have put it way more effort than most. You could easily cut back and maybe you would enjoy it way more.

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7 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

Yup, sounds like it. Just hit the switch in the room, then look for a door that opens on the side.

Meh. As I said, I pair them up together, or with stuff I already do. I've just completed both the Mobile Defense one and the Nightmares one together a few moments ago. I've also completed the Lua Ascension Halls one and the Spy ones together. I'm currently farming for Kavat DNA, so all I had to do is carry a Dragon Key or two with my Ivara. I'll wait for Equinox Prime or next Unvaulting to do the Bounties one. As I said, piece of cake.

And I've already made my opinions clear about what I think of Alerts: I do not miss the disruptions it has caused on my daily life. Being able to go to bed or go out shopping without sparing even a single iota of thought on Warframe is a blessing.

Nightwave is far from perfect, as I've also made clear. There are issues with the effort-versus-reward balance, and its does not match the Alerts' instant-reward loop. But those things can be improved, and Nightwave does accomplish the fundamental objective of eliminating the Alerts' RNG and snooze-and-lose.

If DE are going to replace Nightwave, I will only accept a system that similarly eliminates the Alerts' RNG and snooze-and-loss.

You make valid points about the randomized times alerts could be launched being very disruptive and the short duration made it that much worse. And yes the challenges do synergise well with one another and what we can reasonably expect to do in a given week anyway. 

 

 

5 hours ago, M4T2E said:

Ok, I want to bring it back to constructiv feedback:

I would like to see a system with building up own challenge/difficulty.
You'll always have different players, with different play-styles so it needs a system that can be scaled by themself.
Just a quick base sample:
Earn 100 points by extermination missions (extermination lvl 60 enemies = 25 points; extermination lvl 30 enemies = 10 points; extermination lvl 10 enemies = 2 point).

That's a terrible idea because it makes it significantly harder for the newbs to complete the challenge than the vets. For you a level 10 enemy might die before you even walk into the room. For a newb, who would benefit the most from the alert rewards in Nightwave, that's really unfair. 

5 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

Which is exactly why I'm dissatisfied with many of the current Nightwave missions. There is no distinction between doing the bare minimum to get the rounds to count and going out of your way. Take for instance, if they had tweaked the Bounty mission to factor more than just being there when it is completed, you could have it so that you have the option of doing 1 or 2 Bounties at the highest tier or 7 at the lowest tier. It would at least bring back some level of limited choice for players while rewarding people for doing things better by having them not sit through 30 Bounties over the month.

But anytime any suggestion on how the conditions could have been done, you get a weird pushback from people who either claim "I can do them so they are fine and shouldn't be changed" or "If you don't like them, don't do them ". There is another thread specifically on this topic, just see the responses to suggestions yourself.

To some, that is the bare minimum, but for a weaker player, it's still a challenge. Making it harder for them isn't really fair, while vets can choose to go after the harder enemies instead of doing the majority of the challenges in the starter zone. 

3 hours ago, M4T2E said:

Currently Nightwave isn't that bad, but alerts wasn't that bad too.

I enoy that the pressure of missing items from timelimited alerts is gone.
On the other side, the alerts often carried me over some less interesting times, just by playing alert missions on chain.
Now I take a look into Nightwave and it needs around two days to play my weekly acts and skip the few ones I don't like.
The daily acts are done mostly in under 10 minutes.

So from playing I would prefer the Alerts, but from time pressure I would prefer Nightwave.

The only thing that worries me a bit is the low chance to encounter Wolf of Saturn Six (2x for me), but DE confirmed a higher chance later in this series.

Maybe some players mix up Nightwave Acts with Nightmare Mode.

Ironically some people are complaining loudly about the time limitations in Nightwave. Even though they are generally 3 times longer than the most generous (the 24hr GotL) alerts we had before. 

3 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Just do what you were doing before Nightwave. If you don't look at the activities, you'll probably knock half of them off without even looking at the list.

Meanwhile, I've been having fun blitzing Nightmare missions with beginners. I spent more time reviving players in the last mission than killing the bosses. it is amusing recalling how I used to be that squishy.

I usually do Lua solo, But I'm thinking I will go Public on Lua Mobile defense later this week.

Yeah, and without the help some of them wouldn't have gotten those challenges done. 

2 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

The first half week only had 4 dailies for 40k total.

Noted, thanks for the correction. So 300k out of 470k. 

1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

That's a pretty good idea actually. But, I think it doesn't address the underlying issue of the expiry date forcing players to play in a way they don't enjoy, just to not miss out on the rewards.

The biggest issue with nightwave, imo, continues to be that it's both time gated in terms of progress, but also in terms of it's expiry, putting pressure on the player to play on the game's schedule, and not their own.

 

Actually, I did the math on the numbers presented to me in this topic, that didn't add up with the other numbers presented to me in this topic. And then people got uppity about it. Mostly you, and your elitism.

Elitism of casualness is still elitism, and is just as common as elitism of hardcoreness. Just look at all the silly console gamers that get mad at anyone who has higher standards of performance than 60fps, or at people who want higher refreshrate displays. Elitism is elitism. It doesn't matter if it's low bar elitism or not.

I didn't say we should be able to buy rewards, I said a time gated system where there isn't a way to bypass it is bad because not everyone has the time. That's how everything else in warframe has been and what makes it an attractive product, but of course, acknowledging what I actually said would be inconvenient for your elitism.

I seriously doubt anyone played even 10% of Warframe's alerts. That's just silly to pretend everyone did them all. And elitist, again.

I explained why it's a chore, too, and you ignored that in order to twist what was said to suit your elitism.

From the very beginning, you've made false claims of what others have been saying, as well as about nightwave, and about yourself. Usually for the sake of your elitism.

I never told anyone to stop providing feedback. I asked you to stop derailing the feedback thread with your elitism and trolling, so that we can make nightwave better, rather than more elitist.

Also, for good measure, elitism

 

Ad hominems, and stuff that's verifiably false. You also attacked someone who said that they get less than 8hrs of beauty rest on the average weekday. But hey, keep trying to fool people who might be interested in being fooled by you. 

I really enjoyed reading that "casuals are the true elites" bit. Does that sort of nonsense usually work out well for you? Seriously, you're not going to be very good at gaslighting people who often quote what you said. You may want to consider a different tactic. 

24 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Congrats, for a person who complains about how much of a chore it is you have done way more than me, a person who is enjoying it.

50% participation is extremely generous to get all the rewards. 

I've provided plenty of legitimate feedback. Just because you don't like that some of my feedback is explaining to people whose complaints are clear misunderstandings of Night Wave, how they have misunderstood something and how they have nothing to be concerned about does not change the fact it is legitimate. Feedback is not just complaints and negative outlooks. Feedback is also positive and supportive. 

A lot of people complaints about night wave are legitimate, Like Ayatans, Gilding, Forma. 8 bounties, and Spectors. I agree with their complaints on those. But complaining about something that is not true, simply because people don't understand, or because people want everything right now, is not legitimate.
 

There is nothing elitist about Nightwave, and I get that you don't like it so you like to elevate the fearmongering complaints that are based on misunderstandings. But constructive feedback on their complaints is legitimate.
 

Any quick glance over the forum will tell me that 4% of the player base may not be happy with it. And part of that percentage just like to complain about changes while engaging with it more than anyone else.
 

I don't tell people off "for not doing the math." There is no such thing as math.

A lot more than me too. And it seems to be a case of the wheel pretending to be squeaky in order to get the grease. 

It's clear that there's a highly vocal minority that doesn't like having people disagree with them. So posts like ours that lay out the facts and figures need to suppressed. 

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

It is extremely generous. 75% to get all the rewards would still be acceptable. You are not supposed to get all the rewards if you don't put in a decent effort. You have put it way more effort than most. You could easily cut back and maybe you would enjoy it way more.

Yes but then whatever would there be to complain about? 

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vor 8 Minuten schrieb (PS4)guzmantt1977:

That's a terrible idea because it makes it significantly harder for the newbs to complete the challenge than the vets. For you a level 10 enemy might die before you even walk into the room. For a newb, who would benefit the most from the alert rewards in Nightwave, that's really unfair. 

Sorry, I guess I'm not getting it. Do you mean the timegate, because a newb would have to play 50 extermination missions with lvl 10 enemies where a veteran can reach the same with playing 4 extermination missions with lvl 60 enemies?
With such a system I would just play some exterminations and take a look at my points from time to time. A similar system is often used during events.

vor 8 Minuten schrieb (PS4)guzmantt1977:

Ironically some people are complaining loudly about the time limitations in Nightwave. Even though they are generally 3 times longer than the most generous (the 24hr GotL) alerts we had before.

That's a point. It's hard to track the Nightwave progress related to the large timespan. You have to calculate around to know if you are still able to reach rewards when you skip some acts or are not able to play for a week.

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Honestly Nightwave has finally done something to Warframe I was hoping would never happen: it's made Warframe feel like a job. The second time I saw "collect 6 rare fish from the Plains of Eidolon" I remember sighing thinking, "wait I just did that last week..." and came to remember that same feeling I always got from dailies/weeklies in MMOs or games with MMO feelings to them. About the time it started feeling tedious is the time I dropped off the game as a whole... and that's where we're at for Warframe and I.

Let's talk about what Warframe had. The alerts weren't THAT exciting, but they were non-committal and I never felt stressed to get them done. Then we start implementing Nightwave and I feel a pang in the back of my neck to get 5 sorties done sometime in one week or chart out time after work to find a friend and do that hour long kuva survival (sounds like that one is at least being addressed). I was excited at first for the changes, but after a few weeks of Nightwave I miss the alerts.

In a perfect world I wish we had a mixture of both; in other words: alerts but with WAY more variety like 1) really long survival, 2) go get some rare fish, 3) kill X enemies with radiation damage, 4) get an index win, etc. There is a lot of variety in Nightwave that should have just been thrown in into the alert system in my opinion. As it stands: I think Nightwave will start stressing players into a dailies / weeklies mindset that burns players out of current MMO pools. I wouldn't be surprised if Warframe burnout increased dramatically if this format stays.

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16 minutes ago, M4T2E said:

Sorry, I guess I'm not getting it. Do you mean the timegate, because a newb would have to play 50 extermination missions with lvl 10 enemies where a veteran can reach the same with playing 4 extermination missions with lvl 60 enemies?
With such a system I would just play some exterminations and take a look at my points from time to time. A similar system is often used during events.

Not time gate, effort required to complete the challenge. Vets can often kill the same number of higher level enemies without much more effort than it would take a newb to kill the low ranked enemies. So why should the newb who needs as many of the first 24 ranks as possible, have to do 10x more work? Doesn't really seem fair. 

 

16 minutes ago, M4T2E said:

That's a point. It's hard to track the Nightwave progress related to the large timespan. You have to calculate around to know if you are still able to reach rewards when you skip some acts or are not able to play for a week

Well I've been just checking where I am in the tiers vs (3 x number of weeks) if I'm ahead of that then I'm good to go. If I'm behind, then I need to pick up the pace. 

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1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I seriously doubt anyone played even 10% of Warframe's alerts. That's just silly to pretend everyone did them all. And elitist, again

I completely agree with your post and wanted to add to this point. Everyone who played warframe for a bit knows that alerts were a big help for new players. Getting ressources, credits etc. And if they could not do the mission, or the mission type was not their kind, they could just skip it and wait for the same reward showing up with a different mission. That was the beauty of random alerts. They were random. And randomness is fair (even though we usually (unreasonably) doubt that when RNG jesus is not on our side).

This also worked fine for advanced players. I never got up late at night just because there was an alert with something i need/want. I think hardly anyone did. And that's fine because you know it will come around again. AFAIR the longest rotation in the old alerts was the "rarest" vauban part which only showed up once a month. When i was getting him, i missed the first two times it showed up, passed on the third time (spy mission, hate those, thanks, pass). But got it the next time. That's fine and straightforward.

The point is: We could choose our battles. Pass on mission types we don't like, get the same reward with a different type next time. And that next time wasn't too far away. With nightwave that radio dj (who's still listening to radion in that future??) sais "Jump" and we have to jump! Sure, you can pass a few challenges, but we see those always come around again. Pass too often and you're out.

And then we don't know when the next time will be we can "participate" - assuming it's a recurring event at all. Nightwave is apparently endlessly repeating (and so will be the challenges), but if the Wolf of Saturn Six will ever come around again? Nobody knows. So we are locked on what we play with an artifical time limit - if we don't want to miss out. Try explaining nightwave to a returning player who looks at it for the first time today. Well, better hope you're around when it starts again, in like 6-8 months. Maybe.

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6 minutes ago, TheFBD said:

Everyone who played warframe for a bit knows that alerts were a big help for new players. (...) This also worked fine for advanced players.

- plus everything else -


Indeed. And Nightwave is horrible for both new players and veterans looking for something specific. Say you want a certain helmet,


With alerts, you wait for the alert and are done.

vs.

With Nightwave, you grind ~50 missions. This takes more than a week. Then, you wait for the helmet to appear in the cred store, which can take many weeks. And if you start in the middle of the season, you may never see it. Credits reset. All the grind was for naught.


Yet people keep saying that Nightwave is more convenient and respects your time.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

It is extremely generous. 75% to get all the rewards would still be acceptable. You are not supposed to get all the rewards if you don't put in a decent effort. You have put it way more effort than most. You could easily cut back and maybe you would enjoy it way more.

Considering how significant some of the later rewards is? Especially Umbra Forma? Yeah, no, 50% is not generous. If the rewards from the linear progression were insignificant, I would agree. If you could play it at your own pace instead of being told to constantly speed up and slow down, I would agree. As of right now, it's a game paced like a job that demands more than half your weeks.

 

To add to this, the main reason alerts were never really a problem, despite not really being a well designed or implemented system, is because there wasn't anything too significant in the pool that wasn't also super common. The occasional forma or potato that you might miss out on, but you get enough of those from devstreams and invasions, and they're also cheap enough and easy to get by selling a few mods or prime parts. Everything else either comes up often(nitain) or just doesn't matter(credits, common resources, get-once blueprints)

Whenever something important was added to the rotation, people complained until it wasn't important anymore. Same thing with sorties, they sucked and felt like a slog until the rewards weren't set to expire.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You make valid points about the randomized times alerts could be launched being very disruptive and the short duration made it that much worse. And yes the challenges do synergise well with one another and what we can reasonably expect to do in a given week anyway. 

 

 

That's a terrible idea because it makes it significantly harder for the newbs to complete the challenge than the vets. For you a level 10 enemy might die before you even walk into the room. For a newb, who would benefit the most from the alert rewards in Nightwave, that's really unfair. 

To some, that is the bare minimum, but for a weaker player, it's still a challenge. Making it harder for them isn't really fair, while vets can choose to go after the harder enemies instead of doing the majority of the challenges in the starter zone. 

Ironically some people are complaining loudly about the time limitations in Nightwave. Even though they are generally 3 times longer than the most generous (the 24hr GotL) alerts we had before. 

Yeah, and without the help some of them wouldn't have gotten those challenges done. 

Noted, thanks for the correction. So 300k out of 470k. 

Ad hominems, and stuff that's verifiably false. You also attacked someone who said that they get less than 8hrs of beauty rest on the average weekday. But hey, keep trying to fool people who might be interested in being fooled by you. 

I really enjoyed reading that "casuals are the true elites" bit. Does that sort of nonsense usually work out well for you? Seriously, you're not going to be very good at gaslighting people who often quote what you said. You may want to consider a different tactic. 

A lot more than me too. And it seems to be a case of the wheel pretending to be squeaky in order to get the grease. 

It's clear that there's a highly vocal minority that doesn't like having people disagree with them. So posts like ours that lay out the facts and figures need to suppressed. 

Yes but then whatever would there be to complain about? 

Sleep is for more than beauty. It's very unhealthy to get less than 8~10hr nightly, contrary to what american culture will tell you. Lack of sleep might even explain your terrible attitude. Heck, a good night's might even help you read what's written instead of just what you make up in your head.

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9 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Sleep is for more than beauty. It's very unhealthy to get less than 8~10hr nightly, contrary to what american culture will tell you.

 

Indeed it is. Lack of sleep can destroy your health, end your career and break your family.

Get enough sleep, tenno!

sleepy cat GIF

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32 minutes ago, TheFBD said:

I completely agree with your post and wanted to add to this point. Everyone who played warframe for a bit knows that alerts were a big help for new players. Getting ressources, credits etc. And if they could not do the mission, or the mission type was not their kind, they could just skip it and wait for the same reward showing up with a different mission. That was the beauty of random alerts. They were random. And randomness is fair (even though we usually (unreasonably) doubt that when RNG jesus is not on our side)

Uh... Isn't that still true? In fact, many of the challenges aren't locked to any given mission type, or planetary node that may not be unlocked yet. Which means that they can complete the vast majority of the challenges on the starter planet with starter enemies. 

Isn't that a benefit over the old system? 

36 minutes ago, TheFBD said:

This also worked fine for advanced players. I never got up late at night just because there was an alert with something i need/want. I think hardly anyone did. And that's fine because you know it will come around again. AFAIR the longest rotation in the old alerts was the "rarest" vauban part which only showed up once a month. When i was getting him, i missed the first two times it showed up, passed on the third time (spy mission, hate those, thanks, pass). But got it the next time. That's fine and straightforward.

So having to wait several months is fin and in your book as opposed to letting people pick which rewards they want? 

 

39 minutes ago, TheFBD said:

And then we don't know when the next time will be we can "participate" - assuming it's a recurring event at all. Nightwave is apparently endlessly repeating (and so will be the challenges), but if the Wolf of Saturn Six will ever come around again? Nobody knows. So we are locked on what we play with an artifical time limit - if we don't want to miss out. Try explaining nightwave to a returning player who looks at it for the first time today. Well, better hope you're around when it starts again, in like 6-8 months. Maybe.

Okay here goes "hey Tenno, we're in the middle of an event. Just like every other event there's a start and a finish. We gotta get 300k standing over 10 weeks to get the max rank rewards. You're unlikely to be able to get that from challenges, but it might still be possible to capture the convicts and get pretty close, but honestly I wouldn't do that to myself, if I was you. 

But hey most stuff seems to come back around so keep your fingers crossed. Let me know if you need help and I'll try to do it if I can. Good luck. "

 

16 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Sleep is for more than beauty. It's very unhealthy to get less than 8~10hr nightly, contrary to what american culture will tell you. Lack of sleep might even explain your terrible attitude. Heck, a good night's might even help you read what's written instead of just what you make up in your head.

I'm not an American and don't really know what their sleep culture is. I do know what polyphasic sleep is though. Also I know that it's not unusual for people to be in situations where they don't get to have 8 hours+ a night, so I definitely wouldn't call someone a liar over that. 

I would consider calling someone a liar if they constantly tried to distort the truth, evade answering simple questions, and refused to back their claims up with proof. But I figure that everyone who's interested enough can already see that that's your MO. 😉

 

25 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

If the rewards from the linear progression were insignificant, I would agree. If you could play it at your own pace instead of being told to constantly speed up and slow down, I would agree. As of right now, it's a game paced like a job that demands more than half your weeks.

Do you really need that one umbral forma or the Wolf armour to be able to play the game where you seem to find so much of the content distasteful? 

And given the sheer number of people who say that they're playing less hours now, I have to ask, have you been playing significantly more hours instead? 

And aren't many of the challenges just integral parts of the game that many people might do in a given week anyway? 

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I didn't call you a liar, I said your post stinks. Because it did and does, like I said. Like you continue to ignore.

Encouraging people to get less than 8 hours a night, though, is bad, and you should feel bad for doing that.

 

Most of the challenges are irrelevant, inaccessible, obnoxious, or pointless. Why force someone to ESO if they don't want the drops there? Why even bother to have a "kill 500 enemies" or "complete one mission"?

Of course, none of that would be a problem if the content didn't constantly expire, with a giant expiry date on the entire thing.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb (PS4)guzmantt1977:

Not time gate, effort required to complete the challenge. Vets can often kill the same number of higher level enemies without much more effort than it would take a newb to kill the low ranked enemies. So why should the newb who needs as many of the first 24 ranks as possible, have to do 10x more work? Doesn't really seem fair. 

Hm, the only thing I could imagine to make it equal to newb and vet could be a strict preset in mission and loadout.
So maybe a mission you play with a specific warframe and with preset weapons (playable even if you don't own the items).
Could also be a nice feature for newbs to check out warframes and weapons they don't really own.

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3 hours ago, Enialyx said:


Thanks, KnosssosTNC, for the list.


This totals to 39 missions. The only one of these I benefit from is the 8 PoE bounties. This makes it 31 chores for the week = many hours of boring busywork.

Please,
1) bin the whole Chorewave
2) bring back alerts
3) use money & resources for making,
3.1) quests
3.2) another enemy faction
3.3) more maps

not like this GIF

Why even consider this, when Alert can co-exist with Nightwave?

Yes, Nightwave has flaws, but why giving up for rewards that are obtained by doing challenges, and return to a system where you have to log to get a reward before it leaves, as well as logging every 4 hours for a nitain extract, hoping to build something that has them in the build? Why those two can't be put in the same time? So that, other than doing challenges, you do alerts that gives you something?

Also, you seem to have forgot that Orokin Vaults has corrupted mods, which are useful for some builds.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Not time gate, effort required to complete the challenge. Vets can often kill the same number of higher level enemies without much more effort than it would take a newb to kill the low ranked enemies. So why should the newb who needs as many of the first 24 ranks as possible, have to do 10x more work? Doesn't really seem fair. 

That's what Eidolons are though. New players will struggle to get more than just 1 fight down in a single night while a more experienced group can double or triple the value in the same time window. Within the same time frame, a new player would get significantly less Arcanes than an older one. Generally, large portions of the game are like this too such as Standing, gathering resources, etc.

The whole point is that you're adding alternatives for more experienced groups. If the current objectives are apparently fine by what some people seem to be claiming, then I don't see why it's suddenly a problem to actually value even the newbies to strive for more than just level 10 enemies. This mostly targets weeklies which opens up the floor for new players as well to decide if they want to push for progression during the first half of the week so that they can have a smoother experience with clearing up Nightwave later rather than being subjected to a level 10 - 15 Bounty 8 times over an hour even if he's already past that stage.

Unless all of that is a problem and we should only allow players to complete 1 Eidolon run per night cycle and remove the standing limit increase to keep the consistency with newer players. 

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17 minutes ago, BombtailsTheFox said:

Also, you seem to have forgot that Orokin Vaults has corrupted mods, which are useful for some builds.

 

I'm MR 25. I have all the vaulted mods. They hold nothing for me.

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34 minutes ago, M4T2E said:

Hm, the only thing I could imagine to make it equal to newb and vet could be a strict preset in mission and loadout.
So maybe a mission you play with a specific warframe and with preset weapons (playable even if you don't own the items).
Could also be a nice feature for newbs to check out warframes and weapons they don't really own.

As opposed to just setting the condition of "kill x enemies" and letting them play according to their own abilities and needs? A newb can do it in Lith, and vets can do Hydron or ESO if that is what they feel like doing. The weak newb has weak enemies, and the vet can face off on whatever level they would normally be killing anyway. 

Seems simpler. 

 

Letting newbs use other gear would make an interesting mode though. 

 

11 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

That's what Eidolons are though. New players will struggle to get more than just 1 fight down in a single night while a more experienced group can double or triple the value in the same time window. Within the same time frame, a new player would get significantly less Arcanes than an older one. Generally, large portions of the game are like this too such as Standing, gathering resources, etc.

The whole point is that you're adding alternatives for more experienced groups. If the current objectives are apparently fine by what some people seem to be claiming, then I don't see why it's suddenly a problem to actually value even the newbies to strive for more than just level 10 enemies. This mostly targets weeklies which opens up the floor for new players as well to decide if they want to push for progression during the first half of the week so that they can have a smoother experience with clearing up Nightwave later rather than being subjected to a level 10 - 15 Bounty 8 times over an hour even if he's already past that stage.

Unless all of that is a problem and we should only allow players to complete 1 Eidolon run per night cycle and remove the standing limit increase to keep the consistency with newer players. 

And hour long survivals, and sorties, and profit taker. But those are already "endgame" that effectively lock most newbs out. 

Recall that nightwave is 2 things in one. It's a replacement for the alerts as well as an event with event specific rewards. The newbs need to be able to earn those creds, and enough to be able to get a reasonable number of those cred store offerings. It's not meant to be a omgwtfbbq challenge intended only for the endgame community. That's why I'm making an effort to help carry when and where I can. 

If you can run solo 5x3's that's great, but demanding that newbs de able to do the same isn't really reasonable. Better to let them do their thing in the starter zone than force them to try stuff they have no hope of completing. 

 

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Up till now my feedback was pretty much positive, but this week is an absurd piece of $*** in terms of quests.

DE: there has been feedback. Dont tell me you didnt see that. We didnt WANT to run 40 missions. And we sure as HELL dont want to run spy on Lua with a pub team that searches for the Halls of Annoyance while we stealth around for 150 endo rewards.

Wake up! If you keep the quests like THAT there will be fatigue. Pretty soon too, because the weeks are back to back to back to back to back to back to....

Keep the system, adjust the quests.

EDIT: Food for thought: There is a quest system implemented into the game that doesnt try to bore us to death by saying "Do 10 nightmare missions, even though you by now have everything they are good for and it is just plain annoying when we make EVERY nightmare mission have Energy Drain Modifier"

Give us Riven-Like quest cards instead of this endurance test, stuff like "Kill 10 enemies (while wall running) (and while you only have a melee weapon equipped) (and while undetected). The higher your mastery, the more of these modifiers are added. Then allow us to reroll these quests by spending Nano Spores, Gallium and Alloy Plates if we think they suck. The more you played the game, the less patience and use you will have for stuff like the suggested 10 nightmare missions or 4 Vault runs. You think I enjoy stuffing another Overextended into my collection? Especially now since so many people were forced to do Vault runs, now EVERYBODY has them and they are absolutely useless?

Give us a combination-challenge system that we can reroll if we feel its ridiculous. Make the Quest difficulty depend on the mastery. If you think it is too hard, you can reroll the quest by using resources with ONE recepie keeping the mastery difficulty the same, one leveling the difficulty up and one leveling the difficulty down. Please use resources we HAVE for being patient with the game for many years, not resources you think are fancy and we think are garbage, like Arbitration Essence (its garbage and you know it)

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Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And hour long survivals, and sorties, and profit taker. But those are already "endgame" that effectively lock most newbs out. 

Recall that nightwave is 2 things in one. It's a replacement for the alerts as well as an event with event specific rewards. The newbs need to be able to earn those creds, and enough to be able to get a reasonable number of those cred store offerings. It's not meant to be a omgwtfbbq challenge intended only for the endgame community. That's why I'm making an effort to help carry when and where I can. 

If you can run solo 5x3's that's great, but demanding that newbs de able to do the same isn't really reasonable. Better to let them do their thing in the starter zone than force them to try stuff they have no hope of completing. 

But the was no mention about removing newbie friendly access from the missions. Right now, outside of a few specific challenges that may or may not be easy for you to leech your way through anyways, the majority of missions simply do not offer anything to older players other than pure tedium on the lowest difficulty.  New players can still complete them in the starter zone while anyone who has been on the game for a decent amount of time can clear them at the level they are at without just being completely penalized on the time it takes to get the task out of the way.

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Is it just me, or are this week's challenges almost an exact copy and paste of the challenges from 2 weeks ago? 

I hope DE isn't already running out of challenges 4-5 weeks into Nightwave ... 

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10 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

Is it just me, or are this week's challenges almost an exact copy and paste of the challenges from 2 weeks ago? 

I hope DE isn't already running out of challenges 4-5 weeks into Nightwave ... 

We've been getting repeats pretty much since the start.

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53 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

But the was no mention about removing newbie friendly access from the missions. Right now, outside of a few specific challenges that may or may not be easy for you to leech your way through anyways, the majority of missions simply do not offer anything to older players other than pure tedium on the lowest difficulty.  New players can still complete them in the starter zone while anyone who has been on the game for a decent amount of time can clear them at the level they are at without just being completely penalized on the time it takes to get the task out of the way.

Uh.... 2 pages ago a suggestion was made for a change that would require newbs to run a greater number of missions with lower ranked enemies and vets to do fewer missions against higher ranked enemies.

 

9 hours ago, M4T2E said:

Ok, I want to bring it back to constructiv feedback:

I would like to see a system with building up own challenge/difficulty.
You'll always have different players, with different play-styles so it needs a system that can be scaled by themself.
Just a quick base sample:
Earn 100 points by extermination missions (extermination lvl 60 enemies = 25 points; extermination lvl 30 enemies = 10 points; extermination lvl 10 enemies = 2 point).

Many in the endgame community would tell us that level 60 enemies don't pose a significant challenge to them. Whereas newbs may find themselves having to revive because they get downed repeatedly against those level 10 enemies. Why would you want to make them have to do it many more times than what is probably a lesser challenge for you? That is not a fair proposal, even if I may benefit as well. 

 

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2 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I didn't call you a liar, I said your post stinks. Because it did and does, like I said. Like you continue to ignore.

Encouraging people to get less than 8 hours a night, though, is bad, and you should feel bad for doing that.

 

Most of the challenges are irrelevant, inaccessible, obnoxious, or pointless. Why force someone to ESO if they don't want the drops there? Why even bother to have a "kill 500 enemies" or "complete one mission"?

Of course, none of that would be a problem if the content didn't constantly expire, with a giant expiry date on the entire thing.

And I didn't say that you called me anything of the sort. I pointed out repeatedly and clearly that you attacked someone who said that they don't usually get 8+ hours of sleep a night, and suggested that they are a liar because of that. Do try and keep better track of what's going on. 

And sorry but most humans don't need 8+ hours of sleep each night at all. 

 

And again with the whole "I'm a victim being forced to do this"? Come on. You have the same choices as any of the rest of us. Most of us have chosen to try and get the tier rewards. It seems, if we are to believe what you have said, that you are significantly more advanced in the Nightwave tiers than many of the other people. That means that you have specifically chosen to do far more than a lot of the people who aren't claiming to be forced. 

And again the objective of nightwave was to get us to at least try to do things that we don't normally do in the game. So, why take part in ESO if you don't want the rewards? Answer seems to be, "because there are other rewards that you do apparently want to get". Neat, huh? 

Why bother to have a challenge to kill 500 enemies? Answer seems to be, "because that's a central concept to our 3rd person horde shooting, hack and slash". 

Why bother to have complete one mission? Again it's obvious that the answer is going to be "because Warframe is about doing missions". 

And the fact that there's a limited time to get them done... The shortest timer seems to be a day (or 3 depending on how you look at it) and a week is more common. That's pretty generous in terms of both previous alerts and events. Why would such a long time be considered "too little" for someone to kill 500 enemies or find someone to help them do 3 waves of ESO? 

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