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[DE]Bear

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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As somebody who's just come back from a break, I've noticed two things: 
-I'm pretty much screwed for this event 
-They still haven't released another frame that's actually good at high level content

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What really hooked me on Warframe is that I could do what I want whenever I want and I have all the time in the world to do it. Now I actively try not to log in due to the anxiety of having a big list of chores I don't want to do with timers counting down. I am a completionist but at the same time, I want to complete things on my own time. Up until now, the game has allowed me to do this. I know there is a timer ticking down how long I have before I won't get enough points to max out all 30 ranks and get the armor set. I have just completely burnt myself out on these tasks. It also feels bad when it tells me "Gild an Amp" but I have already gilded all the amps. This makes me feel like the time I spent on doing this was wasted. So basically I am doing this thing just to throw it away. Which is just cementing this in my brain as a chore list. It has just really had an overall negative effect on me where I avoid the game now. It also reminds me of work were you also get a list of mundane tasks to complete. I get off work to play Warframe to not be told what I have to do by someone anymore, not to get another list of tasks to complete in order to literally also get paid. What has been imagined cannot be unimagined. I now correlate Warframe with my job to some regard. This is not good.

So like Steve said. You have a group of people that just want some direction and Nightwave is great. Then you have a group of people that don't want to be told what they have to do and how long they have to do it. I definitely got the negative end of this. If the ranks didn't have any exclusive content I would be at ease with ignoring it but like I said... completionist. At least 1 copy of every mod I have is maxed rank and I have them all but like 20 or so. This includes every prime mod. On one end "must have all the things", on the other "Bro, I'm straight-up not having a good time."

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3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And sorry but most humans don't need 8+ hours of sleep each night at all. 

 

Blatant bs that promotes abuse and damages health.

Animated GIF

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Really hoping we get seasonal challenges .. This would really open up alot of challenges.. Forma was the only thing i found useful from alerts... Outside of fragor i dont think i really actually made any weapons...catalyst typically from catalyst...and as i mentioned before ...never seen a reactor alert from december on....new players have nodes to work and the first 6 quest to complete.

If some of you are really concerned about newplayers (i got way more forma from nightwave after two weeks than alerts..) then stop telling them they need 50 warframes and weapons to mr...stop telling them that they have to be this frame or that frame to do a mission and stop telling them not to auto group...your severely hampering their experience unlike night wave which gives them extra rewards to kill what they are working on....tutorial is biggest need for new players and it will probably include tips about nightwave.

 

 

 

 

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I have to say, NW stress me the hell out- but not for reasons people have stated.

 NW is a huge stressor not because I feel it’s another chore, but rather ‘is this particular NW challenge going to work.’

Case and point, we ran two sabotage missions in the Orokin derelict. Two birds one stone, right? First time went smoothly- got all caches and the dragon keys. 

 Second time, we got the vault mod and the three caches- but it didn’t count.

 The vault was counted 2/4 times, but the caches read 1/3. Sure I can go to another sabotage, but it really puts the stress on me (and my fiance) when something isn’t working like it should- especially NW which we just want to get done.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Tornicade said:

- sleep recommendation chart -

 

This does not mean that everyone or even most adults need just 7 hours of sleep. Rather it means, that 7 hours is the minimum amount of sleep some adults can sleep and maintain their health.

The average for adults remains ~8 hours, even in that chart.

Per the site, too few make that ~8 hours a priority. Many have forgotten what being "truly rested" feels like. Light from electronic devices (such as when playing Warframe) interferes with proper sleep.

Too little and poor quality sleep for completing Nightwave challenges is definitely not recommended.

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25 minutes ago, Enialyx said:

 

This does not mean that everyone or even most adults need just 7 hours of sleep. Rather it means, that 7 hours is the minimum amount of sleep some adults can sleep and maintain their health.

The average for adults remains ~8 hours, even in that chart.

Per the site, too few make that ~8 hours a priority. Many have forgotten what being "truly rested" feels like. Light from electronic devices (such as when playing Warframe) interferes with proper sleep.

Too little and poor quality sleep for completing Nightwave challenges is definitely not recommended.

It says 6 hours if appropriate....peoples energy and metabolism dictate how much sleep they need. 

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2 hours ago, Enialyx said:

 

Blatant bs that promotes abuse and damages health.

Animated GIF

The phrases "medical resident work hours", and "polyphasic sleep" suggest that you don't know what you think you know. (Notice how civil and polite I was in my response?) 

And nobody suggested sleep deprivation for finishing nightwave content. That barely adds up to a few hours per week, spread out over multiple days. But telling someone that they're lying if they admit that they don't get enough sleep, is both ridiculous and wrong. I'll let dig back through the thread and see who was doing that if you want to. 

2 hours ago, Chaos.Blades said:

I am a completionist but at the same time, I want to complete things on my own time. Up until now, the game has allowed me to do this.

I'm sorry, but the acolytes event... How long did it last? And were you able to gradually farm those mods once or twice per day until you got all that interested you with no end in sight? 

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 On the topic.  DE needs to keep investing in the power of (informed) choice:

1.  Let the community know ahead of time that there will be a CHOICE to purchase end-event cosmetics and weapon blueprints.  

2.  Make sure that this option only becomes available at the end of 10 weeks.

The power of choice:  Satisfying the diverse community and the business model at the same time.

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20 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:

Which is precisely why you engaged in several-comments-long pissing contest. Yup, I see your point.

And rather than ignoring it, you decide to come along and pour gasoline onto the fire. Idiot.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Uh.... 2 pages ago a suggestion was made for a change that would require newbs to run a greater number of missions with lower ranked enemies and vets to do fewer missions against higher ranked enemies.

But that is not what I'm saying so why are you quoting me as if I'm in full support of that initial suggestion? I personally made no mention about raising the initial requirement beyond what it is currently. If people are constantly claiming that all the conditions are fine as is, I don't see why leaving it as it is fine while giving some level of alternative to older players. The point I made is based on the suggestion of giving players some level of choice and some value to actually complete the objective on a higher level range. The point I've made has been the same since the start.

18 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

Take for instance, if they had tweaked the Bounty mission to factor more than just being there when it is completed, you could have it so that you have the option of doing 1 or 2 Bounties at the highest tier or 7 at the lowest tier. It would at least bring back some level of limited choice for players while rewarding people for doing things better by having them not sit through 30 Bounties over the month.

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Google is such a lovely thing.

 

Between the Steam chart showing a steady numbers drop over time after the newness wore off for players since NW dropped, and might I add, one that looks abysmal versus just last autumn (seriously, October's numbers looked fabulous by comparison) & their Twitch stream view count's tanking, it should be very obvious by now to everyone at DE that this was not the right thing to implement to give them the boost they were hoping for, and that swift damage control is critical at this point.

 

What I wouldn't give to get my hands on the stats for PS4, Xbox and Switch. My bet is they've dropped just as sharply.

 

Instead of arguing over and over again over who likes NW & who likes Alerts, maybe heads need to be pulled out of stubborn backsides to come to the realization that it's not NW that's hurting WF here, what hurt them was removing something that way more people than they gambled on actually played (Alerts) My Ghost clan really IS a Ghost now, been deserted for weeks. That's not a coincidence, and not isolated. That's a blunt symptom of a BAD decision.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And I didn't say that you called me anything of the sort. I pointed out repeatedly and clearly that you attacked someone who said that they don't usually get 8+ hours of sleep a night, and suggested that they are a liar because of that. Do try and keep better track of what's going on. 

And sorry but most humans don't need 8+ hours of sleep each night at all. 

 

And again with the whole "I'm a victim being forced to do this"? Come on. You have the same choices as any of the rest of us. Most of us have chosen to try and get the tier rewards. It seems, if we are to believe what you have said, that you are significantly more advanced in the Nightwave tiers than many of the other people. That means that you have specifically chosen to do far more than a lot of the people who aren't claiming to be forced. 

And again the objective of nightwave was to get us to at least try to do things that we don't normally do in the game. So, why take part in ESO if you don't want the rewards? Answer seems to be, "because there are other rewards that you do apparently want to get". Neat, huh? 

Why bother to have a challenge to kill 500 enemies? Answer seems to be, "because that's a central concept to our 3rd person horde shooting, hack and slash". 

Why bother to have complete one mission? Again it's obvious that the answer is going to be "because Warframe is about doing missions". 

And the fact that there's a limited time to get them done... The shortest timer seems to be a day (or 3 depending on how you look at it) and a week is more common. That's pretty generous in terms of both previous alerts and events. Why would such a long time be considered "too little" for someone to kill 500 enemies or find someone to help them do 3 waves of ESO? 

This is factually wrong. Encouraging unhealthy amounts of sleep is bad, and you should feel bad.

I didn't call anyone a liar. I said the post stunk, because it did and does.

It's not that someone with a lot of time can't get all the rewards. Not everyone has that kind of time. The people that don't would, in fact, also not have the time to come and *@##$ about it on the forum, further exaggerating the problem. They will silently play until the game is unwelcoming, and then go and play something else, silently, because they don't have time to get involved.

Forcing someone to do something they don't want to within a time limit for unrelated content is bad design.

Having a pointless objective that completes it's self is pointless.

It's not that generous when it's a bucketlist of annoying chores that have no relevance outside of being doled out to force people into doing pointless timewasting chores.

The people with too little time aren't going to have the time freedom to play every week or farm convicts. The people who do are going to want to spend it doing what they want, and not a bunch of pointless random chores.

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1 hour ago, RX-3DR said:

But that is not what I'm saying so why are you quoting me as if I'm in full support of that initial suggestion? I personally made no mention about raising the initial requirement beyond what it is currently. If people are constantly claiming that all the conditions are fine as is, I don't see why leaving it as it is fine while giving some level of alternative to older players. The point I made is based on the suggestion of giving players some level of choice and some value to actually complete the objective on a higher level range. The point I've made has been the same since the start.

Because guzman is trolling the thread to keep people from being productive.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Notice how civil and polite I was in my response?

Literally never, in the entire topic.

Also, the post did promote people to lose sleep over a game. A lot of it.

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15 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Considering how significant some of the later rewards is? Especially Umbra Forma? Yeah, no, 50% is not generous. If the rewards from the linear progression were insignificant, I would agree. If you could play it at your own pace instead of being told to constantly speed up and slow down, I would agree. As of right now, it's a game paced like a job that demands more than half your weeks.

1

But you are playing at your own pace, and so am I and so is everyone else. You're well ahead of the curve because you have been playing at your own pace.

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14 hours ago, random__noob said:

Up till now my feedback was pretty much positive, but this week is an absurd piece of $*** in terms of quests.

DE: there has been feedback. Dont tell me you didnt see that. We didnt WANT to run 40 missions. And we sure as HELL dont want to run spy on Lua with a pub team that searches for the Halls of Annoyance while we stealth around for 150 endo rewards.

5

Don't do Lua Spy. Do Lua Mobile defense. Always at least 1 Challenge, And a chance for up to 3.

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13 hours ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

Is it just me, or are this week's challenges almost an exact copy and paste of the challenges from 2 weeks ago? 

I hope DE isn't already running out of challenges 4-5 weeks into Nightwave ... 

Well since we've already made it pretty clear that Inventory check activities are not good, there are only so many other things you can do.

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8 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

But you are playing at your own pace, and so am I and so is everyone else. You're well ahead of the curve because you have been playing at your own pace.

Not really. The daily chores are annoying and will burn me out on the game quickly, and the only reason I'm doing them so quickly is so that I can get to the Umbra Forma and armor pack, and then not have to worry about doing any more chores.

If I were playing at my own pace, I would have already gotten to rank 30, probably in the first week, and then would be playing very casually afterwards. Other people, playing at their own pace, run the risk of missing out if they don't play when they're told. For example, if my own pace were, say, to play a lot one weekend of every month, I wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting the Umbra Forma. If someone else's pace is to play when they happen to feel like playing rather than when they're told to play, they can easily wind up in a situation where they only log in at the end of a Nightwave, and have no hope in hell of getting anything of value.

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40 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

If someone else's pace is to play when they happen to feel like playing rather than when they're told to play, 

 

You're still playing at your own pace. As I said if you slowed down you might not consider them chores. And it's odd that you consider them chores at this pace but claim that if they were all out at the same time you would have them all completed in one week. Where you would consider them even worse chores.

And no one is being told when to play or how to play. You don't log in and find you can only do these specific things, in a specific order.
 

Just stop trolling the thread with your false claims.

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6 hours ago, (NSW)Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

And rather than ignoring it, you decide to come along and pour gasoline onto the fire. Idiot.

Why would I ignore it? I never said "It's not worth my time" or something. You did say that, if anything you should have ignored me.

But obviously you couldn't, because you use this entire "You're not worth my time" spiel to justify your imaginary superiority. Fragile ego is fragile.

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6 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

This is factually wrong. Encouraging unhealthy amounts of sleep is bad, and you should feel bad.

No, it's factually correct. Unhealthy amounts of sleep vary from person to person, and depend on a number of factors, including the sleep schedule. 

Again anyone can google polyphasic sleep. 

Quote

I didn't call anyone a liar. I said the post stunk, because it did and does

Then allow me to provide this link that shows that you are lying about not calling someone a liar because their sleep schedule does not conform to what you think it should be.

See how easy that is for me to do? 

 

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It's not that someone with a lot of time can't get all the rewards. Not everyone has that kind of time. The people that don't would, in fact, also not have the time to come and *@##$ about it on the forum, further exaggerating the problem. They will silently play until the game is unwelcoming, and then go and play something else, silently, because they don't have time to get involved.

3 hours spread over a week?

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Forcing someone to do something they don't want to within a time limit for unrelated content is bad design.

And again with the victim card. You must really like viewing yourself as powerless and totally without agency to be unable to refuse the option to go after a totally unnecessary set of rewards from an optional event in a video game. Nobody is being forced to do anything here. 

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Having a pointless objective that completes it's self is pointless.

Most people call that a "freebie". At the least its a small token given to all, but for someone who is not as well off, it can be a significant gift. Considering the fact that there are going to be about 70 of them, that's 7 levels that newbs will be able to get which will help them to collect the stuff they need from the creds store. 

And btw, just so you know, scoffing at the challenges because they are easily completed makes you elitist. 

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It's not that generous when it's a bucketlist of annoying chores that have no relevance outside of being doled out to force people into doing pointless timewasting chores.

As opposed "run this mission and we'll give you a kubrow egg /kavat DNA you could have gotten just from going to the appropriate place"? Oh and you may only have a few minutes to enter the mission, and if you don't, who knows when you will see it again? 

I'm afraid that your memory of the game is missing. Again, having 3 days to run a few missions, is generous. 

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The people with too little time aren't going to have the time freedom to play every week or farm convicts. The people who do are going to want to spend it doing what they want, and not a bunch of pointless random chores.

Well since farming convicts isn't needed to hit maximum rank and neither is doing every single challenge, I'd say that DE thought about that part already. You might not have, because unlike a lot of people you seem to be actively trying to do all and farm quite a few convicts. 

And look, two more silly ad hominem attacks because you just can't help yourself :

6 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Because guzman is trolling the thread to keep people from being productive.

 

6 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Literally never, in the entire topic.

Also, the post did promote people to lose sleep over a game. A lot of it.

And again, no. Humans do not generally require 8+ continuous hours of beauty rest per night. There isn't even conclusive proof that we need a total of 8 hours per day and multiple studies have shown how at least some people can modify their sleep habits to cut that amount down to far less, if needed. You have access to the internet, an "information super highway". You can find some of the information if you are interested and willing to put the effort into googling terms like polyphasic sleep, which is not a new concept at all. 

 

7 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

But that is not what I'm saying so why are you quoting me as if I'm in full support of that initial suggestion? I personally made no mention about raising the initial requirement beyond what it is currently.

Because whether you raise the amount that they need to do, or you lower the amount that you need to do, you create a situation where those that need it most, are denied it. And you create a situation where you, who can cheese that level 60 mission more easily than they can complete the level 10 mission, get to do it even faster. 

It won't just be the power fantasy that we're all used to, you also want a "privileges of power" fantasy to be included, while you already admit that the challenges offer you no significant challenge. Even though I would benefit from that situation, I recognise that it's an inherently unfair shortcut that you want us to have, but keep others from having. 

In short you want your cake and to eat it too, at their expense.

7 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

If people are constantly claiming that all the conditions are fine as is, I don't see why leaving it as it is fine while giving some level of alternative to older players.

Sorry but I don't understand what you said here. 

7 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

 The point I made is based on the suggestion of giving players some level of choice and some value to actually complete the objective on a higher level range. The point I've made has been the same since the start.

Is level 60 actually harder for you to complete, or are the numbers just bigger? 

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57 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Because whether you raise the amount that they need to do, or you lower the amount that you need to do, you create a situation where those that need it most, are denied it. And you create a situation where you, who can cheese that level 60 mission more easily than they can complete the level 10 mission, get to do it even faster. 

It won't just be the power fantasy that we're all used to, you also want a "privileges of power" fantasy to be included, while you already admit that the challenges offer you no significant challenge. Even though I would benefit from that situation, I recognise that it's an inherently unfair shortcut that you want us to have, but keep others from having. 

In short you want your cake and to eat it too, at their expense.

Sorry but I don't understand what you said here. 

Is level 60 actually harder for you to complete, or are the numbers just bigger? 

Are new players denied access to Nightwave currently? Especially with 8 Bounties? No one is denied progression from Nightwave in this case. In fact, they can choose to attempt for the same thing which is a more organic way to push people to do the higher level missions within Nightwatch rather than just enforcing a hard restriction of clearing a mission above X level which would be denying newbies.

It might be very surprising to you that people do not strictly adhere to the meta but yes. With the way I play, yes, there is a distinct difference between what I do for level 10 content and what I do with level 60 content which is exactly why I bring this up in the first place. You can't really stop people from cheesing the game but that doesn't mean we need to force everything to cater to the lowest denominator and remove all the value of progression.

There are two reasons why these missions don't offer challenge. I'm at the point of the game where content that matches my progression sits dangerously close to the point where scaling starts to become busted. Eventually, players will hit a point where Sorties are not challenging, but that does not mean we should reduce the level of Sorties because players at the end don't experience any significant difficulty increase between 50 and 100. The other reason why they don't offer challenge is exactly for this reason, because getting them done fast is getting them done on the easiest difficulty. 8 Bounties in Fortuna is a bore chore with 0 threat because you're dealing with level 10 enemies that simply do not do any damage, even to a barely modded frame. Sure, any Iron Skin Rhino can facetank everything in a level 40+ Bounty but not everyone plays that way so there is actually a distinction between level 10 and level 60 missions.

Once again, I go back to something I've brought up very early on, either all of it is a problem or you're picking at straws to find reasons to leave the system untouched and defending your initial stance. Once again, is it unfair to a point of contention that people can get 5 sets of Arcanes in a single Night cycle while others struggle to get more than 1? Is Rathuum and Index unfair? The people without a full library of Arcanes would likely be the ones taking down less Eidolons per cycle. They may need the mods from Kela or Saryn parts but have to run Rathuum on a lower difficulty. They will definitely need Credits more than the guy who has millions stockpiled but may struggle with the High Risk Index.

There is a thing about not allowing people from gaming the system with easy play methods in Endless game modes but this is not an Endless game mode reward scaling, this is allowing the missions in Nightwave to scale according to where you are within the game's progression. If you're talking about scaling Kuva on Kuva Survival, especially with infinite scaling, I agree with you because Endless missions usually only favor people exploiting mechanics to stay within the mission beyond their expected design. However, Nightwave objectives in their current state is like having a level 10 Kuva Survival that pays out the exact same amounts as Taveuni. The Starchart goes up to level 30+, Bounties go up to level 40+, they exist within the game's progression but Nightwave gives no consideration towards them.

Ultimately, I don't see why is it unfair to provide older players an alternative to just defaulting to the lowest levels to get Nightwave done with. You're being extremely ridiculous by claiming that it is to a newbie's expense that they have to run 7 Bounties on Cetus and waste an hour, when they currently have to do it anyways. Unless of course, you believe that we should reduce all of those Weekly objectives to 1 Sabotage, 3 Bounty, 1 wave on Sanctuary Onslaught, then sure, you have a point on how this suggestion would hurt your ideal scenario. But we're not making magical comparisons to a non-existent Nightwave. It doesn't hurt new players anymore than what the current system does which is draw everyone away from other parts of the game where they wish to progress and push them to repeat low level content that they would likely be done with just so that they can continue else where. What about the people who have Cetus on the backburner, being forced to run level 10 Bounties instead of progressing else where? 

As it currently stands, Nightwave's "encouragement to do specific content" mostly revolves around doing it on the lowest difficulty to get it done and over with, rather than actually push people to actually doing the content. If you had different ranges giving different values, sure, you would see that MR20+ spending less time on Nightwave, much like they would do with virtually any other content to begin with, but you would actually see more activity between the different level ranges rather than 90% being concentrated on running the lowest difficulty in as little time as possible.

There's little more to discuss at this point if whatever I'm saying is just going to be met with, "It's unfair for new players" in a game where the odds are already stacked against new players in an attempt to push them to progress further. You might have a point if we were looking at things outside of the game's structured progression such as a single 2 hour Survivals while everyone else has to do 6 rounds of 30 minutes but that is not the situation we are talking about.

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WE NEED AT LEAST 30 DIFFERENT TASKS PER WEEK... Let us choose to do the TEN WEEKLY TASKS we want each week. Would solve so many issues, making you feel rewarded for doing the things you love instead of being forced to do the same bland challenges you don't enjoy in gamemodes you already have everything in week after week. Let me choose tasks that benefit my own progression already ! If I need to mine, I'll do the mining challenge, if I need to put formas on my frames, I'll do the forma challenge, If I feel like doing a 60 minutes survival with teammates, I'll do it... Don't force us to do stuff, give us potential goals and allow us to choose what tasks we do.

 

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