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[DE]Bear

Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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2 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

In a way the 8 bounties mission equates to 8 times the requirements of the 3x normal mission activities with the same reward.

Probably quite a bit more as the captures tend to be fast, and the bounties don't really seem to synergise well with most of the other weekly challenges. (Not even the fishing ones though I've seen folks who seemed doing that while running bounties and a couple of miners too.) 

I suppose that I just looked at it as mobile def. Takes longer than capture, and that's fine, and bounties take longer than mobile def., so that's fine too. I'll admit that I like to run bounties and want more lenses so that might be colouring my view. 

2 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Shhh! Don't say that next week will be "unlock 3 rivens for 5k," and I've only got one I haven't unlocked yet. 

I figured that they'd have done it already. Maybe they just wanted to avoid the worst of the reeing with the disposition rework we got. 

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I think that this change shows that the Developers made a really nice and polished change to the game (once again). 

-BUT: Warframe is like Top 5 on steam right now, because a player can basically do whatever he wants. That being said, there is no way for anyone to know, or the need to, what players as individuals like to do in Warframe. I personally am a Player who doesnt like to grind storymissions very often or anything else really. Some would say im not a normal player. Once I sat there and fished for 5 hours. I dont know why, but I felt like it.

->And that is why these alert missions are very important to implement again, Id suggest in an even bigger scale as before. With more Challenges, Rewards and so on. Maybe even a weekly Leaderboard for these alerts? There are so many Options and these are just quick ideas

-Main Point (Why?): In Warframe there are many People stuck in a phase where they dont know what to do. Maybe they are too bad for something, the game gets boring or none of their friends are online. These Alert missions are the best way for nonregulars to get to play with online players, without having to think too hard about what to do in the game. I dont think that nightwave can deliver just that. 

-Problems with these alarms: I think they removed them because they are kinda bland and the reward system is repetitive. I did not mind that, but maybe some people felt that way. This problem can be solved by either lowering the rewards, implementing cool leaderboards or some other good idea the devs always have. Again, I also think that these missions were too easy and you kinda just got carried by lvl 24 players sometimes, but thats warframe in general and Im okay with that. I see these alerts as a "Launcher" in the game, if you have no inspiration what to do and just want to mess around with 3 other players.

I also hope that this is the right place to write this, if anyone has a more fitting topic or part of the forum please let me know.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Not sure what that has to do with the part you quoted, but I'll still do the math for you:

2 weeks = 86k.

You would have a possible 344k from the other 8 weeks (384 if you count the first part week), of which you need 300k to hit max rank. And that's before we factor in the convicts. So...no, all is not necessarily lost because of 2 missed weeks. (In fact the person I wrote that to will most likely be able to skip the last few weeks of the event if they don't try to max out the creds in the prestige ranks if what they said about their progress so far, is correct.) 

Hope it helps, Tenno. 👍

Hey man, you are making assumptions about personal spare time of the people. I think your comment is a little bittle bit presumptous...

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1 hour ago, (PS4)nating51 said:

Hey man, you are making assumptions about personal spare time of the people. I think your comment is a little bittle bit presumptous...

How so? 

Or are you saying that you were also generally unlikely to have enough spare time to make the 300k in the first place? 

I mean if you just can't make it at the end of the 10 weeks, I'd feel bad for you, but it's exactly the same as if you had missed an alert repeatedly or were away for a couple of weeks for your work during any of the events and couldn't participate. 

At least with the current event lasting 10 weeks, you have a chance to catch up. With the anniversary event, the acolytes, the proxy rebellion, the plague star, the fomorians, and just about every single other example, you would have been just plain sool.... 

How is this not better? 

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50 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 

How is this not better? 

Because it is a 10 weeks time investment. If at some point you dont have the chance anymore to continue to progress, you have lost quite a lot. Also if you after 8 weeks feel fatigue, you force yourself to continue because otherwise everything you have done before would have been for naught. And that feeling blows.

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4 minutes ago, random__noob said:

Because it is a 10 weeks time investment. If at some point you dont have the chance anymore to continue to progress, you have lost quite a lot. Also if you after 8 weeks feel fatigue, you force yourself to continue because otherwise everything you have done before would have been for naught. And that feeling blows.

Not true, you get 30 rewards for reaching rank 30. Every rank up until the point you decide to not continue gives you rewards. So it is not for naught.

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1 minute ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Not true, you get 30 rewards for reaching rank 30. Every rank up until the point you decide to not continue gives you rewards. So it is not for naught.

Not true... I get a lot of trinkets i have no use for. I do it for the Umbra and the Arcane. Maybe if I yolo it for the Armor set. All of them are pretty deep in there. And I feel fatigue now, being asked to do just a ton of missions this week. Just... missions. Nothing of any remote interest. Just one dull mission after another. I play as long as I can bear it and then log off, looking at the Borderlands 3 trailer and wondering what that will be like to play.

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6 minutes ago, random__noob said:

 

Not true... I get a lot of trinkets i have no use for. I do it for the Umbra and the Arcane. Maybe if I yolo it for the Armor set. All of them are pretty deep in there. And I feel fatigue now, being asked to do just a ton of missions this week. Just... missions. Nothing of any remote interest. Just one dull mission after another. I play as long as I can bear it and then log off, looking at the Borderlands 3 trailer and wondering what that will be like to play.

So you have no use for Forma, Kuva, Weapon Slots, Warframe slot, Wolf Creds?

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22 minutes ago, random__noob said:

Because it is a 10 weeks time investment. If at some point you dont have the chance anymore to continue to progress, you have lost quite a lot. Also if you after 8 weeks feel fatigue, you force yourself to continue because otherwise everything you have done before would have been for naught. And that feeling blows.

Depends on the player, I'd say. Some people have managed to max it out already. Others will soon. By week 8 many more people will have gotten all of the rewards since the system is made to allow us to complete the tiers with about 60-65% of the possible standing from the challenges. 

Missing a week won't completely scuttle the whole affair the way it would in most events we've had to date. That's what I was replying to. 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1073526-nightwave-alerts-removal-feedback/?do=findComment&comment=10647922

And when I presented the math to show that, the goal post shifted to "what if I don't have that amount of free time."

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1073526-nightwave-alerts-removal-feedback/?do=findComment&comment=10648570

 

So it sounds like a case of "what if I just can't complete the challenges" to which the response has always been "well I guess that you won't get all the rewards". In the past that would have meant potentially not getting any, but as Tatakai said at least this way we get something to show for it. Which is nice. 

14 minutes ago, random__noob said:

And I feel fatigue now, being asked to do just a ton of missions this week. Just... missions. Nothing of any remote interest. Just one dull mission after another.

Oh, you mean that you don't like to do the missions that are pretty much the majority of the game Warframe? 

Yeah... I could see how that might be a downer when playing Warframe... having to play the game and all. 

So is your suggestion that they make a challenge where you can just not do any of the challenges? Because that kinda seems like the only way to alleviate the boredom that you feel when playing warframe. Or did you have something else in mind? 

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*sees Scan objective in Nightwave*
*dusts off [Synoid Heliocor]*
*puts a [Forma] on it*
*doesn't work*

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

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I've gotten a sigil I think so far... But Im not sure, I keep forgetting to check

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15 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

At least with the current event lasting 10 weeks, you have a chance to catch up. With the anniversary event, the acolytes, the proxy rebellion, the plague star, the fomorians, and just about every single other example, you would have been just plain sool.... 

How is this not better? 

'cause all those you mentioned are recurring events. Here we have a thing which rewards you with something that probably you won't see again as the armor, the syandana and the damn hammer. Not to mention that this is pretty the new "core" of the alert system (and NOT an "event"), which should not have been exclusive or time gated as it is IMHO.

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5 hours ago, (PS4)nating51 said:

'cause all those you mentioned are recurring events. Here we have a thing which rewards you with something that probably you won't see again as the armor, the syandana and the damn hammer. Not to mention that this is pretty the new "core" of the alert system (and NOT an "event"), which should not have been exclusive or time gated as it is IMHO.

Bad news mate. You're playing warframe. DE has made it clear repeatedly, with the exception of the founders package, nothing is exclusive. 

 

And the alert rewards are in the creds store. Nothing in there is exclusive, and alerts were ALWAYS time gated. The event rewards are on the tiers and are separate and aside from the alert rewards. 

So.... Both of those claims seem to be spurious, don't they? 

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On 2019-04-03 at 6:33 PM, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

So you have no use for Forma, Kuva, Weapon Slots, Warframe slot, Wolf Creds?

Wolf creds can give me my golden potatoe number 20 and my blue potatoe number 21. You tell me what I think. As for the other things you mentioned: I dont. I have access to missions and relics by now. I am not a beginner. The time spent to rewards gained ratio does NOT work out for me, except for the unique rewards. And of those, I dont really care for much but the Forma, and the Arcane because you cant guarantee a drop of that in the time you spent. It seems reasonable. Some plat for a weapon slot? I can run popular radshares and sell the stuff and make more plat (and that way, more equivalent weapon slots) in the same time. It is good for beginners. It isnt relevant for people that can gain that stuff in other ways.

On 2019-04-03 at 6:46 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Depends on the player, I'd say. Some people have managed to max it out already. Others will soon. By week 8 many more people will have gotten all of the rewards since the system is made to allow us to complete the tiers with about 60-65% of the possible standing from the challenges. 

Missing a week won't completely scuttle the whole affair the way it would in most events we've had to date. That's what I was replying to. 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1073526-nightwave-alerts-removal-feedback/?do=findComment&comment=10647922

And when I presented the math to show that, the goal post shifted to "what if I don't have that amount of free time."

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1073526-nightwave-alerts-removal-feedback/?do=findComment&comment=10648570

 

So it sounds like a case of "what if I just can't complete the challenges" to which the response has always been "well I guess that you won't get all the rewards". In the past that would have meant potentially not getting any, but as Tatakai said at least this way we get something to show for it. Which is nice. 

Oh, you mean that you don't like to do the missions that are pretty much the majority of the game Warframe? 

Yeah... I could see how that might be a downer when playing Warframe... having to play the game and all. 

So is your suggestion that they make a challenge where you can just not do any of the challenges? Because that kinda seems like the only way to alleviate the boredom that you feel when playing warframe. Or did you have something else in mind? 

Well I invested quite a bit of time because I am closing in on rank 23. I want the rewards now. I cant be arsed to play the "just do stupid missions until your eyes bleed" quest this week. Yes everybody can finally complete the challenges. So my thanks to you, dear forum. When before it at least LOOKED like somebody made an attempt to show us more underplayed and less frequented parts of the game, now it is just "sit here for 10 hours, thank you very much". Do you not think i played regular old missions enough? Do you think a space ninja equipped with lasers, whips, hand held rocket launchers and the power to ignite the air itself at their fingertips wants to play SPY missions? THEY ARE THE EQUIVALENT OF A MOBILE GAME AND I DONT UNDERSTAND HOW NOBODY SEES THAT! Fruit ninja provides more long term motivation than this ridiculous ****-fest they call "hacking". Somebody pls tell me how THAT is part of a sneaking/fast paced elimination/hold your ground experience? I had high hopes for the Moa to hack for me, but somehow that thing is so buggy i cant even take him to solo missions and expect him to hack for me. But thats a different story. You wanted to know why i am ticked off. This week has nothing to offer. At all. I just do it because by now I already am too far in to pass up on the ranks and not far enough in to say I know for sure I can skip all this boredom.

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56 minutes ago, random__noob said:

Well I invested quite a bit of time because I am closing in on rank 23. I want the rewards now. I cant be arsed to play the "just do stupid missions until your eyes bleed" quest this week. 

Emphasis added. I wonder how much you would have supported people who only did half of an event or bailed halfway through an alert, if they'd demanded to get the rewards anyway. 

I hope that you understand why you wanting a reward NOW, and not wanting to do what's required for the reward, are fine, but they don't mean that you should be given the reward. 

56 minutes ago, random__noob said:

Yes everybody can finally complete the challenges. So my thanks to you, dear forum.

Uh no they can't. Lua missions are locked behind quest-line progression isn't it? 

56 minutes ago, random__noob said:

Do you not think i played regular old missions enough? Do you think a space ninja equipped with lasers, whips, hand held rocket launchers and the power to ignite the air itself at their fingertips wants to play SPY missions?

Uh... Seeing as how they're space ninjas, it's probably pretty likely?

56 minutes ago, random__noob said:

Fruit ninja provides more long term motivation than this ridiculous ****-fest they call "hacking". Somebody pls tell me how THAT is part of a sneaking/fast paced elimination/hold your ground experience? I had high hopes for the Moa to hack for me, but somehow that thing is so buggy i cant even take him to solo missions and expect him to hack for me. But thats a different story.

Pretty sure that picking locks to get into secure locations and disabling security systems would be a big part of "stealth". That's what we use hacking for, isn't it? 

And for regular spy missions there are ciphers, they don't work for sorties and nightmare but calling in air support to freeze the timer for a while is pretty great. 

56 minutes ago, random__noob said:

You wanted to know why i am ticked off. This week has nothing to offer. At all. I just do it because by now I already am too far in to pass up on the ranks and not far enough in to say I know for sure I can skip all this boredom.

Again if playing the game is not enjoyable to you, then nightwave really isn't the problem that you are having. It seems that you don't enjoy playing the game. 

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Ok so we were told we had to do what? 65% of Nightwave to get everything correct? Well it is week 7 and I've done every mission except for 1 that was worth 5k and I am sitting at rank 27 and not close to 30 like I would've expected by this point. Someone's math is wrong!

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1 hour ago, Kajin_Style said:

Ok so we were told we had to do what? 65% of Nightwave to get everything correct? Well it is week 7 and I've done every mission except for 1 that was worth 5k and I am sitting at rank 27 and not close to 30 like I would've expected by this point. Someone's math is wrong!

 

Yeah, me too.

Nightwave begun on 27.2.2019. It was Wednesday, so there were less chores than on full weeks. It's now the 6th week of Nightwave.

 

Total standing from this week's chores: 43 000.

Standing required: 300 000

Weeks to complete: 300 000 / 43 000 = ~6,98 = 7.

 

If the season is 10 weeks long, that means you need about 70% of all chores. Sans the fugitive captures.


In my opinion,

schitts creek no GIF by CBC

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2 hours ago, Kajin_Style said:

Ok so we were told we had to do what? 65% of Nightwave to get everything correct? Well it is week 7 and I've done every mission except for 1 that was worth 5k and I am sitting at rank 27 and not close to 30 like I would've expected by this point. Someone's math is wrong!

Yeah someone's math is wrong. 😄

Sorry mate counted wrong. It's the middle of week 6, and the first was truncated so it had less standing. If you are at 27 you'll probably be at 30, before the end of next week. 

You'd have maxed it out somewhere between 6 and 7, and a bit sooner if you hadn't skipped that one mission.... 

Only thing that's weird is that you must not have caught any fugitives, or maybe you missed more than the one challenge somehow?

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1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Yeah someone's math is wrong. 😄

Sorry mate counted wrong. It's the middle of week 6, and the first was truncated so it had less standing. If you are at 27 you'll probably be at 30, before the end of next week. 

You'd have maxed it out somewhere between 6 and 7, and a bit sooner if you hadn't skipped that one mission.... 

Only thing that's weird is that you must not have caught any fugitives, or maybe you missed more than the one challenge somehow?

 

3 hours ago, Enialyx said:

 

Yeah, me too.

Nightwave begun on 27.2.2019. It was Wednesday, so there were less chores than on full weeks. It's now the 6th week of Nightwave.

 

Total standing from this week's chores: 43 000.

Standing required: 300 000

Weeks to complete: 300 000 / 43 000 = ~6,98 = 7.

 

If the season is 10 weeks long, that means you need about 70% of all chores. Sans the fugitive captures.


In my opinion,

schitts creek no GIF by CBC

 

It says week 7 on your Navigation display. DE also said 60%-65% is what needs to be done. So yea... around now with all I got done, with all the fugitives I've completed. I should be closer than 27.

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On 2019-04-01 at 3:02 AM, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

You had months to rank up Fortuna, it’s on you that you hadn’t until Nightwave came out. In that instance, it’s an issue of the other kids getting a reward because they did something you didn’t. Getting mad when you haven’t even put the effort in is childish, right? Don’t do it.

Are you talking down to people with physical limitations because they complain about reaching the classroom in time after the bell rings because their wheelchair?

This is how this argument feels because I get massive headaches from all white snow maps - which is the sole reason why I completely ignored and continue to ignore orb vallis.

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29 minutes ago, Kajin_Style said:

 

 

It says week 7 on your Navigation display. DE also said 60%-65% is what needs to be done. So yea... around now with all I got done, with all the fugitives I've completed. I should be closer than 27.

You mean where it says: "Nightwave x/10 Weekly Acts" before listing your unfinished acts? 

If so... It's because you have completed 7 of the 10 weekly acts for this week, which means that by end of the week you'll have at least one more rank, possibly 2. 

 

So quick spot of math again: 

40k + 43k x 5weeks = 255k

Of which you skipped 5k = 250k

250k = 25 ranks exactly at the end of week 6.

You're above 27, so you've gotten more than 2 ranks, possibly as many as 3 from the fugitives. So.............. 

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1 hour ago, Kajin_Style said:

 

 

It says week 7 on your Navigation display. DE also said 60%-65% is what needs to be done. So yea... around now with all I got done, with all the fugitives I've completed. I should be closer than 27.

 

It's now 5.4.2019.

 

  1. 27.2.2019 - 3.3.2019
  2. 4.3.2019   - 10.3.2019
  3. 11.3.2019 - 17.3.2019
  4. 18.3.2019 - 24.3.2019 
  5. 25.3.2019 - 31.3.2019
  6. 1.4.2019   - 7.4.2019

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Nightwave, in its current iteration, is actively discouraging me from playing.

I missed the beginning of the season because I was preoccupied with Wizard of Legend and Devil May Cry 5, I was working a lot of overtime, and frankly, I haven't been very happy with most of the design decisions going into event/boss/loot design for Warframe lately. Now, given how much time I will have available to play during the week and factoring in that I will on occasion want to play games other than Warframe, there is no possible way for me to obtain all the rewards I would be interested in. I may as well not bother with it, and there's not much reason for me to bother with it until the season resets.

The specific rewards at stake don't actually matter all that much, either. The core issue with Nightwave as I see it is that the limited-time "season" mechanic combined with the proportion of completion required to obtain all the relevant rewards create fairly narrow "jumping in" opportunities for players who:

  • Don't regularly have lots of time to play, and/or
  • Aren't prepared to play Warframe religiously.

Outside of those windows, the impossibility of earning some rewards means the season actively discourages players from participating for weeks at a time. This is a very dangerous setup for a F2P game like Warframe which depends on players continuing to play to make its revenue. I'm not strictly talking about players like me who miss the opportunity windows, either:

An invasively time-consuming docket of inane "chores" like Nightwave will accelerate player burnout, and the aforementioned "opportunity windows" will make it easier for players to drop the game entirely instead of getting sucked back into it once they've rested.

Seasons as a concept have been reasonably vetted and well-received in the industry, but this implementation of them falls short of the mark.

  1. Windows of opportunity to start participating with the ability to obtain all rewards need to expand.
  2. The participation model needs to be more accommodating of players who can't or won't play 24/7 (exaggeration, but you get the point). Instead of basing challenges on time commitment (daily/weekly/elite), challenges should be difficulty based (easy/normal/hard). They should also be handled more like alerts: available for a limited time, but relatively quick to complete. This would allow players with less time to prioritize harder challenges to make up the difference. NOTE: Also consider player-driven event triggers for obtaining new challenges, like refreshing when a challenge is completed or even tied to specific mission types (e.g., mission related to gathering intelligence reward new opportunities (challenges) to exploit.
  3. If you want to limit how many of a specific reward players can obtain per season, just give a limited stock per player.

Just food for thought.

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Math is soulless & emotionless, none of it factors in peoples ability or willingness to eat the tripe NW throws at people, having to eat a percentage of a sh*t sandwich doesnt make it taste any better.

And no you cant OPT OUT & not do NW, its all pervasive, intrusive & annoying, from those big shiny achievement notifications, to Noras gob telling you what a hero you are, for mining rocks, its always there, always reminding you, theres hoops to jump through & THIS is the new standard? 

Math will not assuage peoples fears that the game they enjoy is becoming less enjoyable, does not quantify the amount of people who will just walk away before even giving the game a real chance, all because they were "late to the show" that runs for the next few weeks.

As for the rewards being the same, I don't see a big bulk buy of oxium or any Gallium or tellurium for sale, neural sensors? plastids, mutagen, Nanospores. Nope not a single trace & ALL needed for crafting goodies, now all the bigger a pain to find.

With the alerts, you could wait for it to come up, farm other materials & bulk up then lo & behold some popped up while playing.

Btw, gotta say Switch players gotta have the biggest beef, every other system had years prior to this of Alerts, Switch had all of about 3 months, unless you Migrated, Fortunately I did the Migration from PC already MR 11 & loaded to the gills with goodies, anyone who just started when the game came to switch is hurtin, so if you REALLY want to see if this little program is a success, ask a switch player, ill tell ya, they arent a happy & the drop in player numbers is a good indicator, let alone the Region chat gripes.

So if you want to do some worthwhile math, go find how many players across the systems have just up & stopped logging in at the start of the Nightflush/wave season vs previously, try steam, heard they have something that does that.

Ill never understand peoples need to be a self imposed dictator over something like this, DE either address this garbage both forum wise & NW or quit baiting the hook with hope you actually WANT feedback, because this thread has developed more internet Dictators & lord knows we need more.

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On 2019-03-04 at 10:47 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Hey Tenno,

Nightwave is here in all of it’s Nora Night-backed glory, and there has been a lot of back and forth (both on the forums and internally) about the challenges and how to accrue Nightwave standing. Series 1 of Nightwave is our first attempt at this addition to Warframe, and we want to thank you all for sharing your thoughts and requests. We will be using this thread to gather feedback from everyone on all Platforms! 

So at first pass, we are seeing some concerns rise to the top:

  • Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.
  • Survival Challenges - too long in one sitting.
  • Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

For some of these Elite challenges, we were attempting to speak to the endurance runners, but it seems we may have missed the mark - if you liked it, or didn't like it, comment below. In the end, we wanted to make a series of challenges that spoke to every type of player, but we do not want to do so at the cost of enjoyment overall.

Nightwave is still new to the community and we are expecting to see more feedback come as the series progresses - you've only seen a % of all Acts, so as Series 1 progresses we need your feedback on the appearing Acts. We've seen players responding with some possible solutions that would make these challenges more piecemeal, balance the resources needed to complete some challenges, and assess social requirements to get your goodies.

We will be applying what we have learned to Nightwave Series 2 - but can only improve with constructive, detailed posts about what you like / didn't like about acts. Knowing what you like is just as important as what you don't like. 
 

saturn prisoners and wolf spawn rate is horrible, and without them reaching max standing without overly specific grind is night impossible, and for those who grind, doing challanges by accident or on purpose there is 0 reward after max lvl, 

also there is less variety in buyable loots than there could've been in normal alert system, it would need some expansion

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