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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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12 minutes ago, masterofdetiny said:

3) Nightwave credit rewards are a joke.  Once you get all 30 rewards, each new tier is 15 credits.  15.  15.  I just don't get it.  10,000 points of grind won't even get you 50 points.  If a Catalyst or Reactor costs 75 points, you will take 50,000 points to unlock one.  This isn't a reward system, it's an admission that after the Umbral Forma you ran out of ideas.  If I were a new player I'd be frustrated that I could earn a Vauban or a couple of Catalysts/Reactors in 10 weeks (with no alternative helmets or other skins).  As a veteran I find it insulting that Umbral Forma are locked behind a huge grind, which functionally has 4-6 rewards worth pursuing for the entire event (read: Penta Mod, slots, and maybe the Arcane).  

3

Yikes! That is a bad move. I was expecting it to be 50 creds per level once you prestige.

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46 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Yikes! That is a bad move. I was expecting it to be 50 creds per level once you prestige.

Yeah, I was guessing it'd be in the neighborhood of 50 credits each time as well, but 15 per rank is better than what we've been getting the entire time anyways. There's been plenty of posts advocating for less wolf creds awarded more frequently to smooth out the payouts for folks taking longer to get through the ranks, etc.

Ranks 1 - 30: 300 creds total, awarded in batches of 50 at ranks 3,6,12,16,20,24 (Average of 10 creds per rank)

Ranks 31+: X creds total, 15 per rank (50% increase)

Of course that's entirely separate from discussing whether the cost of things could use some adjustment 🙂

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Domrond said:

Kind of disappointed that the ayatan challenge is back. I feel like it's the only truly bad challenge in Nightwave. 

Other than that, I'm not really sure what people actually want from nightwave challenges, other than to only have challenges you can complete accidentally.

The reason I don't like the Ayatan Challenge is that it's basically RNG dependent, or Arbitration dependent. Arbitrations don't give rewards over half the time, but they do give lots of statues if you mange to get your rewards.

Edited by DigitalNikki
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11 hours ago, slotschii said:

As a Veteran who pretty much forma'd everything how they want it to be i feel insulted by the forma 3 times challenge.... 

I feel insulted too especially by the fact that nightwave gifts out two forma x3 bundles as tier rewards for all your hard work only to come back and ask you not once but twice already to use all that forma within a given week

Honestly what is next DE something like reroll rivens until you have used 20k kuva seeing as that is the amount that nightwave rewards players with.

 

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What about giving 50 creds on every level of the Nightwave and raise the price of the potatoes to 375 creds? The rate of creds/potato keeps the same (with all the creds you'll get 4 potatoes and nothing else for the nightwave), but gives people a more reliant way of getting nitain and the other things. If I think that I only have 300 creds and every time I want nitain I have to pay 15 of it, it's ok and should probably be a good way of getting it. The problem is when you add to the creds offering things that were mostly "free" with the alert system (all the weapons, the helms, VAUBAN!...) With those prices, if someone wants to get the nitain, they have to think that they will have to sacrifice a lot just to get enough for what they need; there are too many things needing nitain .

Some may argue that you can get the helms in the next nightwave because they are not necessary. And yes, they are right. But before this change, in the timespan of the nightwave, I could be able to get the whole set of aura mods, vauban, most of the helms and, on top of that, 4 nitains a day (if I had enough free time). Right now, the Nightwave is more like a job, you need to do these quests (many of which are not fun at all) just to get 1 item or less every week.

Yes, I'm aware we also have the rest of the rewards from the tiers, but still, many of those rewards mean almost nothing to everyone (an emote, a glyph...). There are some good rewards, and I'm fine with that, but the rate at which they give us the creds is just bad.

 

To keep with the feedback, there's something I've been thinking about too: Instead of giving us a batch of challenges every week, why don't you do something like the Paladins battlepass? You have several tiers (that are unlocked every X levels of the battlepass) and there are several quests on every level. The good thing of it is that all the quests are active from the first to the last day of the battlepass so if someone doesn't feel like playing a week, they can get up to date playing more the next week. Or if they just want to do everything in the first few weeks, they can, and after that they just do what they want knowing they completed the pass. This way, you avoid the feeling that you must log to do your daily chores (because that's what they become), and people can play at their own pace. Of course, you can keep the daily quests as something more to do everyday, to top up the xp in case you are not doing all the challenges.

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I'm pretty disappointed in the Nightwave prestige ranks offering only 15 Cred. At this rate it will take two weeks to get a reactor or catalyst assuming I don't need anything else. With the old alert system, it felt like we could get reactors or catalysts at least weekly. Lately, those showing up in invasions seems to be more infrequent as well.

I think most disappointing is that it gives me such little incentive to keep working on Nightwave challenges.

I would love to see a rotation for the prestige ranks. For example:

  • Rank 31: 75 Creds
  • Rank 32: 3 Forma
  • Rank 33: 20000 Kuva
  • Rank 34: 5000 Endo
  • Rank 35: 75 Creds
  • Etc.

If you've worked hard enough to reach the prestige ranks, they should feel rewarding without giving anything exclusive or otherwise unattainable.

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Posted (edited)

Nightwave might not be so bad if a player could actually pay for some of the rewards - if not the whole season. Like how battle / season passes work in other games.

Instead, we have a system where if you can't make the time due to whatever reasons, you're screwed out of any and all rewards you really wanted.

"Want this shiny? Don't have the time to get it? Sucks to be you!"

"But...what if my internet goes down? What if my gaming rig needs fixing because a part went bad? What if I have to be away from the computer due to an emergency?"

"Too bad Tenno! You don't get these nice toys I'm dangling in front of you!"

"But - I have money I can give you..."

"No, because these are special toys that we only want to give to hard working players, and we wouldn't want to invalidate their efforts by allowing people to outright BUY those toys...right?"

 

We have the option to pay for faster access to Warframes and weapons...why not here?

Edited by MirageKnight
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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Chanzi said:

I'm pretty disappointed in the Nightwave prestige ranks offering only 15 Cred. At this rate it will take two weeks to get a reactor or catalyst assuming I don't need anything else. With the old alert system, it felt like we could get reactors or catalysts at least weekly. Lately, those showing up in invasions seems to be more infrequent as well.

I think most disappointing is that it gives me such little incentive to keep working on Nightwave challenges.

I would love to see a rotation for the prestige ranks. For example:

  • Rank 31: 75 Creds
  • Rank 32: 3 Forma
  • Rank 33: 20000 Kuva
  • Rank 34: 5000 Endo
  • Rank 35: 75 Creds
  • Etc.

If you've worked hard enough to reach the prestige ranks, they should feel rewarding without giving anything exclusive or otherwise unattainable.

This would be more in-line with what I thought.  Maybe a bit less, but rewards all the same.  Putting this into perspective, each prisoner is worth 50 points.  If a potato is worth 50,000 points, that's 1000 captures.  You'd need a minimum of 334 groups of three.  If a spawn occurs on average every 3 missions (I may be generous here), you've got to run 1,000 missions to get a potato.  If missions are on average 5 minutes, that's 5,000 minutes or 83.34 hours.  Is a potato worth 3.5 days of grinding?

 

Now, let's be real here.  DE is running this like the evergreen bundles for login.  We ran out of ideas, so we're just killing time.

 

If you wanted to reward us, I'd suggest slightly less awesome tiers.  Every 3 levels would be 50 credits.  Interspersed between the wolf credits would be 2 forma bundles, 10,000 kuva bundles, 10,000 endo bundles, and exilus adapters.  Visually:

  • 31: 50 Wolf Credits
  • 32: 2 forma
  • 33: 10,000 Kuva
  • 34: 50 Wolf Credits
  • 35: 10,000 endo
  • 36: 1 Exilus Adapter
  • 37: 50 Wolf Credits
  • .....

The decreased rewards aren't great, but for the extra two weeks of content you could squeeze out (depending upon the actual end date) you'd get 150 more credits and a smattering of useful items in small but reasonable sized bundles.

What I see right now is 15 wolf credits, 15 wolf credits, and I haven't gotten farther but don't have a reason to expect more.

 

Again, reality check.  10 weeks using the alert system I could earn a couple of dozen aesthetic helmets, 5-20 Kavat gene codes, 60+ Nitain, and Vauban 4 times or more.  DE, please stop.  The bigger upfront rewards are rapidly being subsumed by the garbage extended rewards.  I can't believe nobody at DE saw this coming, and more importantly they thought this would be missed by a player base that called them out on the false forma drop rates from years ago.  (To those new here, there is a documented history of shenanigans large and small.  Being positive, some were errors.  Being realistic, sometimes enthusiasm from a developer doesn't translate into a functional product.)

 

Please DE, either make the rewards worth it or give us Alerts back.  This is the same crappy "rewards" that has Anthem in deep right now.  Don't make the same mistake.

Edited by masterofdetiny
Clarified potentially "insulting" phrasing to be more neutral.

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Honestly I think the big flaw of Nightwave is having to get ALL the rewards to get to the end. Like if you don't care about certain things, you can choose to ignore them. Like if, for example, you picked a 'Major Reward' you wanted to gun towards. There'd be little incidental rewards along the way like cred or whatever, but you've picked a thing to aim towards and you'll get THAT one first.

Maybe how you could work it is that you've got X number of Major Rewards, and you can pick one of them to work towards. Above the Major Rewards are the Grand Rewards, stuff like the umbra forma or the armor bits. Once you've gotten to a Major Reward, you can pick to work towards a Grand Reward, but once you've gotten that Grand Reward, you need to get another Major to get back up to the top of the 'tree' so to speak.

Then people can work towards the rewards they WANT. Getting all of it would still require the same effort as now, but if they don't have the time they can still decide what they want the most.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-04-07 at 4:44 AM, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

No, if they took them away then it would be 25 Wolf creds per level when we earn wolf creds, and people would be complaining even more that they can't get everything right now.

 

No, The ones we earn was we rank up are basically gifts. These otherwise are only available for real world currency. Giving them a permanent free option would damage the revenue that De gets from this F2P game.

 

Why?

The rewards bought with Wolf Creds are better than the Alert system. And we still get Gift of the Lotus Alerts.

 

We still have Gift of the lotus Alerts which have these, and also they are still in Invasions. This is a Free to Play game, and You are basically asking them to destroy their economy. and revenue. because you want everything now.

No, The wolf creds in the first 30 ranks are fine, and once you prestige, which it seems most player will be doing so this coming week or the following week, If they haven't done so already, then it's just pure wolf credits. 

Who knows what would happen, you shouldnt try and guess what DE wants/will do. It might stay at 50, who knows.

If that's the case then they can limit how slots can be bought with wofl creds.

Why? Because even nightwave has its flaws and needs supplementation from something.

What I'm basically saying isnt basic and not at all what you're claiming. Seriously what is up with people willingly thinking up BS to throw around in place of what people actually mean? Humanity has failed horrendously. This happens way too often.
Anyway, GotL is once every 2 weeks, if they decide to include something like this. And I clearly said it's invasions, but the problem is, they dont last long enough. Either put them out so everyone has a chance to get them, or dont do it at all.

 

Never knew it was pure wolf creds after prestige, first time ive seen something about this.
.
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On 2019-04-07 at 5:00 AM, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

With the exception of the free 60 starter plat and the plat De gives away on streams. Plat is not free. Someone somewhere paid real money for that plat you traded for. There is no system in the game that rewards you with free plat.

When you trade an Item for plat understand that has real monetary value.

Wolf credits have no real-world monetary value.

thats what i meant, lol

 

On 2019-04-07 at 12:18 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Emphasis added. 

We have very different definitions of "every day" 😁

But yeah, those gifts of the Lotus are really important to us as players. My mouth started watering when I saw them as cred store offerings even with the little stockpile I have built up. But I still think that a lot of stuff in the cred store needs rebalancing for the new players.

Maybe for the next season, they can put one more umbral forma in there at almost whatever the amount of creds we could possibly get from maxing out the prestige levels say up to rank 40 or something, so the vets can have something to grind for and spend their creds on. (And something to whine about as well.) 

yeah i was like a child on christmas when i saw everything 😄

Edited by IllogicalLogic420

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1. I feel that allowing the temporary doubling of Nightwave Standing from Fugitives captured in Orb Vallis was a mistake. It allowed players to rank up faster than intended and may have resulted in a false positive on the subject of the pacing of the event. If the ranking process is in fact too slow, you won't discover that until Series 2 when there is no such double rewards event running.

 

2. Before Nightwave had begun, we were told that we would have to spend our Wolf Creds wisely. In and of itself I'm fine with this, but the weekly rotation of the store without foreknowledge of what is going to be available, when something passed over will return if it returns at all, and what is going to always be present makes it difficult to make a wise decision. A good expenditure in the present may be a poor choice in the long run.

I propose taking out the rotation and having all shop offerings present throughout the entire event. We really don't need a rotating shop to hook us in weekly, the Challenge rotation already does that. Players would be able to prioritize the things they want and pursue those free of the fear of missing out, and the only unwise purchases would fall to user error.

If that is not an option and  the shop absolutely has to have some sort of rotation to it, I'd propose having that things available deeper into the event greyed out and marked with text denoting what week of the event each item would be available for purchase. Kind of like how the other Syndicates work, but with week markers and opposed to rank markers for the things you can't buy yet.

 

3. Now on to the Challenges themselves. What I think would be a good adjustment would be if Elite Challenges were to no longer provide regular event Standing and would instead give Elite Standing. There would be an additional track for these and there would only be 6 rewards available on it. To use the rewards from Series 1 as an example, the rewards would be as follows: A "Nightmare" equivalent of the Wolf Emblem, a "Nightmare" equivalent of the Nightwave Emblem, a more visually interesting version of the Wolf and Nightwave Sigils, and Wraith versions of the Wolf Syandana and of the Wolf Armor Set. 6 rewards, all cosmetic and therefore things that are wanted but not needed, 3 Elite Challenges a week, 10 Weeks making 30 total Elite Points, so 5 Challenges per Elite reward. The challenges could then be made more difficult, earning their moniker of Elite, without making more casual players feel like their progress towards Rank 30 is hindered in any way.

Of course, that would also mean that there would be 15k less Standing available per week towards the basic track, and to alleviate this I suggest having 3 Daily Challenges instead of 1. That would give everyone more casual things to work towards each day, make the trek to Rank 30 feel less punishing to those who can't do the current Elite Challenges, and space things out better so players don't feel that they can rush through and complete all the challenges on the first day of the weekly reset.

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8 hours ago, masterofdetiny said:

Formas being "rewarded," and then required for points, is not a reward.  Beyond the lack of a reward, forcing us to forma three items is arbitrary and frustrating for those who have virtually everything.

Aside from Ayatan hunting, I think this infuriates me more than anything else about NW.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, masterofdetiny said:

untested mess which should have been tested before being rushed out.

 

Agreed and welcome to video gaming in 2019.

video games fallout GIF

Edited by Enialyx
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10 hours ago, VincentHelmic said:

We cannot simply do 60% of the objectives, even if we played every single day since Nightwave started, because prestiging exists and gives meaningful rewards.  Some players don't feel any need to do them, because they already got everything from the old Alert system and no longer need potatoes, Nitain, or aura mods.  Others, however, don't already have everything, and because Nightwave lasts for literal months at a time it's a massive opportunity cost to not farm as much as you can for these scarce resources.  The fix?  No more rewards for prestiging - they should either be utterly negligible (stuff that could be better farmed through other methods) or ideally completely non-existant.  No glyphs, no little marker for achieving 100% of objectives, absolutely nothing.  Yes, there is a group of players who care about achievements, we all know about Bartle's taxonomy - don't abuse them.

You know they plan to do another nightwave after this one, right? 

Fear of missing out is like any other fear. It's great for getting us to do things, but the instant that you let it take control of you, you're lost. 

2 hours ago, (PS4)The_Verethragna said:

3. Now on to the Challenges themselves. What I think would be a good adjustment would be if Elite Challenges were to no longer provide regular event Standing and would instead give Elite Standing. There would be an additional track for these and there would only be 6 rewards available on it. To use the rewards from Series 1 as an example, the rewards would be as follows: A "Nightmare" equivalent of the Wolf Emblem, a "Nightmare" equivalent of the Nightwave Emblem, a more visually interesting version of the Wolf and Nightwave Sigils, and Wraith versions of the Wolf Syandana and of the Wolf Armor Set. 6 rewards, all cosmetic and therefore things that are wanted but not needed, 3 Elite Challenges a week, 10 Weeks making 30 total Elite Points, so 5 Challenges per Elite reward. The challenges could then be made more difficult, earning their moniker of Elite, without making more casual players feel like their progress towards Rank 30 is hindered in any way.

So... Miss a single elite and you're automatically locked out of the highest tier? Don't like that idea at all, mate. There's a pretty clear reason why they made it so we don't have to do 100% to get our rewards. It's because life gets in the way of playing games sometimes. 

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ONE MORE THING.

Can we have a goddamn week counter so we know how much longer is left in this damn thing?

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12 hours ago, shieldb said:

Yeah, I was guessing it'd be in the neighborhood of 50 credits each time as well, but 15 per rank is better than what we've been getting the entire time anyways. There's been plenty of posts advocating for less wolf creds awarded more frequently to smooth out the payouts for folks taking longer to get through the ranks, etc.

Ranks 1 - 30: 300 creds total, awarded in batches of 50 at ranks 3,6,12,16,20,24 (Average of 10 creds per rank)

Ranks 31+: X creds total, 15 per rank (50% increase)

Of course that's entirely separate from discussing whether the cost of things could use some adjustment 🙂

Yeah if you hit prestige rank 30 you'll get 450. But I think most who prestige will probably only make to around rank 10-15. if it was 15's with 50's at the same points as the first 30 ranks, I'd be happy. or even 25 per rank.

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9 hours ago, masterofdetiny said:

This would be more in-line with what I thought.  Maybe a bit less, but rewards all the same.  Putting this into perspective, each prisoner is worth 50 points.  If a potato is worth 50,000 points, that's 1000 captures.  You'd need a minimum of 334 groups of three.  If a spawn occurs on average every 3 missions (I may be generous here), you've got to run 1,000 missions to get a potato.  If missions are on average 5 minutes, that's 5,000 minutes or 83.34 hours.  Is a potato worth 3.5 days of grinding?

Wait. Can you not do the Night Wave tasks once you prestige? I thought you could still do the weeklies and dailies.

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9 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Honestly I think the big flaw of Nightwave is having to get ALL the rewards to get to the end. Like if you don't care about certain things, you can choose to ignore them. Like if, for example, you picked a 'Major Reward' you wanted to gun towards. There'd be little incidental rewards along the way like cred or whatever, but you've picked a thing to aim towards and you'll get THAT one first.

Maybe how you could work it is that you've got X number of Major Rewards, and you can pick one of them to work towards. Above the Major Rewards are the Grand Rewards, stuff like the umbra forma or the armor bits. Once you've gotten to a Major Reward, you can pick to work towards a Grand Reward, but once you've gotten that Grand Reward, you need to get another Major to get back up to the top of the 'tree' so to speak.

Then people can work towards the rewards they WANT. Getting all of it would still require the same effort as now, but if they don't have the time they can still decide what they want the most.

You literally can just work towards the reward you want. You know what ranks they are and you can just aim for that rank.

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5 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Aside from Ayatan hunting, I think this infuriates me more than anything else about NW.

At least they gave those of us on console a gift of the lotus to balance out with PC on this.
You can quickly hunt Ayatan's on Mariana on earth with Limbo. Some people can do each run in 2 or 3 minutes getting 3-5 Ayatans in half an hour. I'm a bit slower and usually do each run in about 5-6 minutes. Some players seem to get an Ayatan every 2-3 runs, I seem to get one every 5 or 6.
 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, masterofdetiny said:

5) Make sure the stuff called out in the Nightwave works.  I tried 4 times yesterday to complete the Sortie's first mission.  In all three of the first attempts a door would not open.  No alarms, door was green, but would not open.  It's the second time in two weeks, though previously an abort and restart did the trick on a random run. 

About that problem you are having... I found out that sometimes (don't really know why or when), the game fails to recognize your warframe in the map, strange but happens.

When that happens, doors are not opening, you cannot open any cashes or lockers, enemies don't really know you are there even if you are shooting at them and even killing them, friends/other players in the squad don't see you next to them or in their map and at the end of the mission you cannot "leave" after you reach the extraction as if you are not really there at all.

I found out that the only way for me to "bypass" all those issues is to switch to my operator form, when I'm doing that, the game suddenly realizes the existence of player X (me) and doors are opening - extraction works, etc. If I then switch back to my warframe, the issues are still there, so I have to use the operator to end the mission. Not a really solution but as I said a moment's bypass to the said problem.

Sorry about my off topic answer... 🙂

Edited by (PS4)Nek_Food

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On 2019-04-08 at 2:02 PM, (NSW)NeonNebula said:

Honestly DE, what’s the use of this feedback thread if you’re not going to listen to the feedback? 

I think this week is pretty easy compare to previous weeks. they might be listening.

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17 minutes ago, (PS4)Nek_Food said:

About that problem you are having... I found out that sometimes (don't really know why or when), the game fails to recognize your warframe in the map, strange but happens.

When that happens, doors are not opening, you cannot open any cashes or lockers, enemies don't really know you are there even if you are shooting at them and even killing them, friends/other players in the squad don't see you next to them or in their map and at the end of the mission you cannot "leave" after you reach the extraction as if you are not really there at all.

I found out that the only way for me to "bypass" all those issues is to switch to my operator form, when I'm doing that, the game suddenly realizes the existence of player X (me) and doors are opening - extraction works, etc. If I then switch back to my warframe, the issues are still there, so I have to use the operator to end the mission. Not a really solution but as I said a moment's bypass to the said problem.

Sorry about my off topic answer... 🙂

I have found that door issue to be a host connection issue. The times it has happened to me the host is insanely laggy.

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vor 8 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Tatakai no Kami:

I have found that door issue to be a host connection issue. The times it has happened to me the host is insanely laggy.

Sometimes it's host related especially when you also recognize a delay while opening cashes, pick up loot and such things.

But there is definitly a problem with closed green doors too!
There are many new reports about green doors that won't open and I also had issues with bugged green doors in solo mode since the last few updates.

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Instead of being completely random, what if we can choose from 3 Challenges for Dailies?

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Posted (edited)

Hello,

here is a feedback on Nitain Extracts as an item from the Creds shop (and for the record I don't lack nitains.)

Case

It is the unique case of a ressource needed for many Foundry items and Research, something a player may not assess during early play. Nitain usage is obfuscated to new players : it looks like a ressource like many others, with the specific, obscur caveat that is only availble by one and only one mean, the Cred Shop. 

Before Nightwaves, there were Alertes, and some rewards were Nitain. So a player could do alerts, and sometimes get Nitain, with or without planning for Nitain specifically, in his time and will. It was straightforward : alert -> Nitain, and there was nothing more. That player could so unknowingly gain Nitain for later use, or check his Nitain count, how many he needed at the time or later, and play his own way.

 

Consequence

Now, one has to plan, and fairly early on, to save tokens for Nitain. You have to figure now if you need some in the future. Worse : those cosmetics in the shop ? they cost 35 token, and some of them require Nitain, so they cost MORE tokens, likely 50 (even if they don't require 5 nitain). There are currently 300 Wolf tokens to get as tier rewards (not counting Prestige). A new player, or an unaware one, may spend much in Catalysts and Reactors, and then miss the opportunity to grab Nitain. 

New players may be lost or confused with this situation, even stalling in their progression. I feel this is very wrong as a gaming experience.

 

Idea/suggestion

Arbitrations mechanism offers a rare ressource (Virtus) for a challenge. Nitain could go the same treatment : a dedicated mission type, with adjusted difficulty and frequency, and some unique tricks?

 

TL;DR : ressource required for many items and only available in Cred Shop is bad. Make it available another way.

Thanks for reading.

-- Laestic

Edited by Laestic
Typos + clarifications
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