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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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11 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

The problem is that they don't always show up: Sculptures have a chance of spawning on a given map, as opposed to being a guaranteed spawn. For some people, one in every three runs might yield a sculpture. For others, it could be one out of every five...or worse.

Totally agreed, I didn't see one at all last night but I'll usually get one a day on average.

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17 hours ago, Arc5in said:

Yeah, pretty sad to see the folks in here trying to argue that the people who don't like nightwave, or don't like some things about it are wrong, and that others should like it because they like it.

People who dislike this stuff, they are not lying, they are not wrong, and their opinions are entirely valid. How they claim to feel, in all likelihood really is how they actually feel, whether it makes sense to you or not. Instead of trying to point out how they are wrong, or how their opinion is wrong, or saying to stop playing warframe if they don't like it, or other such childish and pedantic responses, trying to find solutions which can please them while yet retaining the things you like about NW would be so much more productive.

Again, the majority of the disagreeing we've seen has not been centered around a difference in our opinions. If you say "yeah I don't enjoy doing this" that's always fine and 100% indisputable. 

However people are presenting things as facts, when they're simply not. For example on the previous page (page 85 at the time of writing) we have:

On 2019-04-11 at 6:03 AM, D1sTrust said:

Imo the big issue is the "10 weeks and then it`s over" format.

It adds pressure to play when you don`t really want to, it threatens you with missing out on things. Previously I logged in asking "what do I want to do today?", now I log in asking "what do I have to do?". Missing a week or two shouldn`t jeopardize a crazy 10 week-effort.

We need an estimated 60-65% of the standing from the challenges. That was mentioned at the start of the whole affair. Missing 2 weeks doesn't jeopardize the 10 week effort if we can complete the majority (again majority not all) of the challenges. 

Many of us are either done or nearly done with the first 300k standing to complete 30 tiers (as evident by the increase in complaints about the 15cred rewards after 31). There are weeks left on the clock. 

This also suggests that all the complaints about being forced to do every single challenge, are false. Many of us have, in fact skipped multiple challenges along the way. 

That pretty much covers two of your issues and proposed fixes, doesn't it? (I'm sorry I'm on Mobile and night mode theme so I can't really make out the bit about "just go play destiny" so I am just skipping that bit.) 

 

Your bit about Nora creds, I agree with. I also wish they'd rebalance the creds costs for stuff in her store.

A toggle for Nora is neither here nor there for me. 

The bit about "why not let them choose umbral forma from the start?" I disagree with. I don't mind choice, but I do understand that giving the donkey the carrot at the very beginning of the day and not rewarding the greater overall achievement in proportion to the amount of effort required is a recipe for disaster. Take a poll as to what the most sought-after rewards from the tiers was. I bet it's the umbral forma. That carrot belongs at the end of the ride. 

Edited by (PS4)guzmantt1977
Minor correction for page number.
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Ever since assassins became scalable, the wolf has become a massive bullet sponge.
He was already hard to deal with before this, but now he is a major pain in the ass to kill whether you have good weapons or not.
In invasion defence missions you shouldn't even try as the waves just move on as normal, thus the mission ends before you'd manage to halve his health let alone kill him.

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Posted (edited)

Since my friend is new to the game (Just reached Doer on Fortuna, thanks to my urging, but unranked on Cetus, for instance) he has missed many elite challenges, and hasn't had time or access to others. He's not even going to reach 50% - (nowhere near the 60% people love to say you only need to get for the mid-rank of 30), I estimate (his next rank will be the first Kuva bundle, that he'll reach this week.)

He's missing a LOT of challenges.

My roommate barely gets up to 10hrs a WEEK to play (many times less, and almost exclusively at hours that I cannot play with him, as I work 2 jobs) sometimes we can play a couple hours a week together. He works full time and is going to college. He LOVES Warframe almost too much (he already bought the Mesa Prime Access when starting out, and several PS4 bundles/plat packs, to the point that our finances are strained and I regret introducing him to the game.)

He min-max's frames more than I do, watching Youtube videos and such, whereas I wiki things and experiment with builds that cater to my unique play style (melee 95% of the time, guns rarely, very exploratory, but quick - so my builds focus more on utility and speed than raw power and survivability)

He is going to miss out on the Umbra Forma that would greatly help his builds, whereas I'll certainly get it, but have no good use for it. I highly doubt they'll be tradeable, but I'd still keep mine for a time when we can obtain a useful amount, later, in the New War & beyond.

Nightwave has been practically useless to him because he's making little progress, and barely any Wolf creds, despite all the chores he has done.

Nightwave is practically useless to me, since I have almost everything I'll ever need from the cred shop that I obtained in the Alerts previously, but Nightwave is missing nearly everything I cared to get from Alerts (rare resources mostly).

As I've said before, there's something seriously wrong with this picture, given the goals of the Nightwave system.
 

Missing a week or two (which is highly likely during finals for my friend, or just wanting to play another game to the exclusion of Warframe to take a break, for me,) in his case, would certainly mean missing out. There is no "make-up" mechanic in place here for his situation. It may not bother him that much right now, that he missed an Umbra Forma, since he doesn't realize the potential it has for his builds yet... but it's sorta out of his hands anyway, as he couldn't work toward it given his circumstances anyway. If I were him, I'd be resenting the Nightwave system, and it may hit him once he realizes this, later.

His attitude is to not care about Nightwave at all and just ignores it for the most part, since he knows he'll never get the good rewards from it.

My attitude toward Nightwave is to do as much as I can, grind out as many fugitives as I can, to get the rank 30 rewards, and then ignore Nightwave from that point on.

Hmm...

Ignore Nightwave if you can.... that's what I'm seeing.

Edited by (PS4)AyinDygra
Deleted the quote... it started out as a response, but changed my mind while writing.
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3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

We need an estimated 60-65% of the standing from the challenges. That was mentioned at the start of the whole affair. Missing 2 weeks doesn't jeopardize the 10 week effort if we can complete the majority (again majority not all) of the challenges. 

Many of us are either done or nearly done with the first 300k standing to complete 30 tiers (as evident by the increase in complaints about the 15cred rewards after 31). There are weeks left on the clock. 

This also suggests that all the complaints about being forced to do every single challenge, are false. Many of us have, in fact skipped multiple challenges along the way. 

That pretty much covers two of your issues and proposed fixes, doesn't it? (I'm sorry I'm on Mobile and night mode theme so I can't really make out the bit about "just go play destiny" so I am just skipping that bit.) 

None of this is new to me, so no, it doesn`t change anything.

Like Ayin already stated, the amount of time people can (or want) to invest in a game varies. Plus for less seasoned players some NW tasks either take more time or are just not doable at all.
Everyone under a certain threshold will feel pressured by this system. It`s inherently a race against a 10-week clock.
Just because the pro-driver in the Formula 1 car doesn`t even break a sweat in that race, doesn`t mean it`s fun for the rookie in a VW Beetle trying to keep up.
I have only been here for about three month, but afaik a system forcing it`s pace on the player is new for WF, and actually almost the opposite of it`s usual flow.

Tbh., personally I am not even crazy about the rewards since they are kinda ahead of my progression. But NW still manages to stress me out.

No clue what the "just go play destiny" line was aimed at, I for one don`t play it. 😉

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Posted (edited)

Page 86 so doubt it will get read and it is also positive feedback overall so will probably be ignored as well.  I just wanted to post from someone who really likes Nightwave.

Player Info:

-Around 1900hrs played

-400 days is today!

-MR27

-90% solo, 9% duo, 1% PUG

-Full-time office job/career so not a no-lifer gamer

-GF who is cool with my time spent gaming

-Rank 31 in Nightwave

 

1.  Nice homage to the old "The Warriors" movie; I think Nora captures this feel very well.

2.  Short/quick backstory of the Wolf is kinda cool.  This latest entry into the storyline and overall lore is decent.

3.  Guaranteed rewards!  Sometimes RNG can bite you in the a#$, it's nice to know there is good loot throughout the reward system.

4.  Rewards.  Pretty good mix for all types of players.  The Umbra Forma was a nice "carrot" to chase!

5.  Never felt the "grind" that many negative posts state.  Most of the challenges I was able to complete in basic gameplay doing random things (**I have completed ALL challenges to this point except this weeks sortie challenge that I'll knock out after work today.)

**Only challenge I kinda cringed at was the statue one because I really dislike the Drones in Arbitrations.  Rank 31 plus, maybe able to chose a reward of Wolf Creds or second optional reward (like rare mining gems as an example). Other than that, all good.

 

All-in-all, GREAT work DE!!  Props to everyone at the office and the devs who most likely put a TON of work and love into this.  (And to whomever had the idea of "The Warriors" influence...Steve?...I hate you for making me feel old!)  j/k

Edited by (XB1)Sumosan13
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57 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

Since my friend is new to the game (Just reached Doer on Fortuna, thanks to my urging, but unranked on Cetus, for instance) he has missed many elite challenges, and hasn't had time or access to others. He's not even going to reach 50% - (nowhere near the 60% people love to say you only need to get for the mid-rank of 30), I estimate (his next rank will be the first Kuva bundle, that he'll reach this week.)

He's missing a LOT of challenges.

The umbral forma is not going to be usable by him until he gets to the end of the star chart. It is, by it's very nature extremely endgame specific. That's probably a part of why some of the elite rewards are tied to the "more endgame" content: sorties, tridolon, profit taker. 

57 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

My roommate barely gets up to 10hrs a WEEK to play (many times less, and almost exclusively at hours that I cannot play with him, as I work 2 jobs) sometimes we can play a couple hours a week together. He works full time and is going to college. He LOVES Warframe almost too much (he already bought the Mesa Prime Access when starting out, and several PS4 bundles/plat packs, to the point that our finances are strained and I regret introducing him to the game.)

Most of the challenges can be done by many of the experienced players in far less time than 10 hours/week, assuming that the player is capable of completing them at all. The number that was tossed around was about 3 hours I think. Many of the challenges synergise so that we can work on more than one at the same time. 

57 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

He min-max's frames more than I do, watching Youtube videos and such, whereas I wiki things and experiment with builds that cater to my unique play style (melee 95% of the time, guns rarely, very exploratory, but quick - so my builds focus more on utility and speed than raw power and survivability)

That may be holding him back in his non-nightwave progress. When we get too comfortable with a single loadout we stop gaining mastery. Unless he's already over MR 16 he may wish to reconsider. 

57 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

He is going to miss out on the Umbra Forma that would greatly help his builds, whereas I'll certainly get it, but have no good use for it. I highly doubt they'll be tradeable, but I'd still keep mine for a time when we can obtain a useful amount, later, in the New War & beyond.

Yes, and again it's really endgame specific. If he's struggling with the challenges, then you have to ask if that one forma that can be applied to only one slot will make the huge difference many people are hoping for. General consensus seems to agree with you that it may be better to hold on to the forma until there are more, as only a handful of frames can really benefit from the single one we'll have earned. 

57 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

Nightwave has been practically useless to him because he's making little progress, and barely any Wolf creds, despite all the chores he has done.

Nightwave is practically useless to me, since I have almost everything I'll ever need from the cred shop that I obtained in the Alerts previously, but Nightwave is missing nearly everything I cared to get from Alerts (rare resources mostly).

The first one is something that I agree with you about, I really hope that they will rebalance the creds/costs to benefit the newbies. The second one, I feel you on, yes alerts were a valuable source of rare materials, and I hope to see them added in the future. 

57 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

As I've said before, there's something seriously wrong with this picture, given the goals of the Nightwave system.
 

Missing a week or two (which is highly likely during finals for my friend, or just wanting to play another game to the exclusion of Warframe to take a break, for me,) in his case, would certainly mean missing out. There is no "make-up" mechanic in place here for his situation. It may not bother him that much right now, that he missed an Umbra Forma, since he doesn't realize the potential it has for his builds yet... but it's sorta out of his hands anyway, as he couldn't work toward it given his circumstances anyway. If I were him, I'd be resenting the Nightwave system, and it may hit him once he realizes this, later.

You already said that he's not likely to be able to finish the tiers. Missing 2 weeks means that you still have access to the majority of the possible standing. At this point I believe that the first partial week isn't being counted in the 10 weeks. So out of the 10+1partial you're probably looking at close to 9 weeks worth of standing, of which you need about 7 to hit maximum tier if you are able to do all challenges. 

If you aren't able to do all, the question becomes, would you be have been able to do enough in the first place? 

57 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

His attitude is to not care about Nightwave at all and just ignores it for the most part, since he knows he'll never get the good rewards from it.

My attitude toward Nightwave is to do as much as I can, grind out as many fugitives as I can, to get the rank 30 rewards, and then ignore Nightwave from that point on.

His attitude makes sense, as this system is likely to be repeated in the near future. He may be in a position to do better going forward. 

Your attitude also makes sense, so long as you aren't burning yourself out. 

My personal attitude has been do what I can, skip what I really don't want to do and try to make up for it with other challenges. When I get done, I try to assist others, say by taking them fishing with my bait, doing extra bounties, or by going on runs to the silver grove for those who are short on apothics. I've been looking at recruiting chat a fair bit for people who need the assistance. I count them as farming runs and that helps remind me that I am benefitting as well as helping others. 

57 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

Hmm...

Ignore Nightwave if you can.... that's what I'm seeing.

Like I said, my take has been, help each other if we can. That way the people who can't do it on their own, can realise that there are people who are willing to help. 

If your buddy needs a hand they can try to see if I'm online and I'll try to give them some assistance if I'm able to. 

45 minutes ago, D1sTrust said:

None of this is new to me, so no, it doesn`t change anything.

Like Ayin already stated, the amount of time people can (or want) to invest in a game varies. Plus for less seasoned players some NW tasks either take more time or are just not doable at all.
Everyone under a certain threshold will feel pressured by this system. It`s inherently a race against a 10-week clock.
Just because the pro-driver in the Formula 1 car doesn`t even break a sweat in that race, doesn`t mean it`s fun for the rookie in a VW Beetle trying to keep up.
I have only been here for about three month, but afaik a system forcing it`s pace on the player is new for WF, and actually almost the opposite of it`s usual flow.

Tbh., personally I am not even crazy about the rewards since they are kinda ahead of my progression. But NW still manages to stress me out.

No clue what the "just go play destiny" line was aimed at, I for one don`t play it. 😉

Oh yeah, I just used your post as an example of someone claiming that missing 2 out of the 10 weeks is what will jeopardize the whole affair. 

When you say "weaker players may not be able to complete 300k standing at all" it's a totally different issue. At that point, as in Ayin's example, the issue is that the weaker player is probably not going to be able to advance to tier 30 at all. That's not a huge surprise, because if we count it as 10 weeks, the last two tiers require the standing from about 4 Elite challenges. While I sympathise with them, I don't see much of a way to change it without simply saying "participation awards for everyone yay!". 

I do wish that the creds/cost system gets an overhaul to benefit them though. 

Really though, the claims about forced pace are a bit much. Alerts were random timed events that would happen throughout the day, on specific missions on specific planets, and you had to get most of them done against the clock or you were out of luck. That's the definition of being forced to do something if you want the rewards. The difference is that most veterans will usually admit that they skipped the vast majority of them anyway as they weren't interested in the rewards. Right now what we have in Nightwave is also an event that they do want the rewards for, so some people seem to find themselves complying and resenting having to actually put in an effort to play the game. 

The bit about destiny, I dunno what it's about either, as it's too hard to read in the colour and font size they used. It's in the other person's post. 

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Tier 16 at mr 8 . I havent even bothered with the dailies.i used 4 forma yesterday to boost up khora build had the forma last week but iwanted to do a few sorties and other stuff with current build..all those challenges were easily done if iwanted to . Just didnt have any interest. 

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Posted (edited)

I do not accept the premise for this "I am entitled to reach lvl 30 of Nightwave, so now I am pissed because it takes too much time/is hard/etc. and thus I get stressed out"-attitude that runs currently runs rampant. It's sibling assumption might be even worse, this "I feel that I am entitled to do ALL the challenges, and now I am very upset because they include missions I do not like".

If you have a real life that is more important than Warframe, that is completely FINE. Partners, kids, school, work, friends, there are a lot of things that really and truly are more important than Warframe, and that IS fine. If you have just started and it is hard to do all challenges, that is also FINE, that is just how it is ("fight on, Tenno"). If you only like certain parts of the game, and thus do not want to do some missions, guess what, that is also FINE. Even having no friends or clan members, and not even wanting any, that is also completely FINE.

But what is borderline insane (or at least an expression of intense mental vacuity) is the assumption that a game developer should take all this into account and then change the game so you can achieve "everything" you want without having to put in more time, do missions you don't like, grind the starmap & get better gear, get some friends, join a clan or whatever.

Where does this assumption come from, the idea that Warframe should be designed and changed just for you? Or for "me, me, me", to look at it from the other side. Sure, everyone is entitled to their opinions, and their feelings even. Because this sure seems to have a lot to do with "feelings". And having feelings is fine too, actually.

But while it is ok to have feelings about Nightwave (as much as you like), this "I am entitled..."-premise is completely, utterly and totally ridiculous!

It is also irrational and outright stupid. A game that allows all players to easily max everything they like, so that they will feel good, successful and capable, does that sound like a game anyone (who is not an egotistical idiot) would actually like to play? [the answer is "no"]

Or like a game that will continue to interest gamers for another six years?  [the answer is still "no"]

There are lots of intelligent, insightful, rational and critical comments as well as improvements suggestions concerning Nightwave (not surprising, since a lot of Tenno really care about Warframe). But what has kind of surprised me is the amount of these "it is all about me"-comments. Actually, it finally even pissed me off...

Edited by Graavarg
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1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The bit about destiny, I dunno what it's about either, as it's too hard to read in the colour and font size they used. It's in the other person's post. 

Oh, nevermind then. 😉 I thought it was directed at me since you wrote it after quoting me.

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh yeah, I just used your post as an example of someone claiming that missing 2 out of the 10 weeks is what will jeopardize the whole affair. 

For any player under a certain threshold of average time investment per week, it does.
You are right, there is a group of players who either spend so little time or simply are too new, they just shouldn`t bother. The whole event isn`t for them.
But there is also a pretty big group in the zone between them and dedicated seasoned players. This is the group who are not really happy, because they can`t go at their own pace.

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I don't see much of a way to change it without simply saying "participation awards for everyone yay!".

Plenty of suggestions in this thread, mine included (change to an endless loop event, rewards on a weekly base depending on the weekly difficulty).

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Really though, the claims about forced pace are a bit much. Alerts were random timed events that would happen throughout the day, on specific missions on specific planets, and you had to get most of them done against the clock or you were out of luck.

Come on, you have to see the difference between random event pop-ups, with a time investment of 20 minutes max per event/reward, and a 10-week event dangling a carrot-on-a-stick in front of you.

 

Don`t get me wrong, I am not saying Nightwave is bad, the core idea is actually pretty good imo. But I think it needs some substantial changes in order to not alienate a seemingly huge group of players.
 

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1 hour ago, D1sTrust said:

Plenty of suggestions in this thread, mine included (change to an endless loop event, rewards on a weekly base depending on the weekly difficulty).

Unfortunately the problem is that no event is never-ending. And for good reason. Take a look at the most recent complaints.. "15 creds".... That's why we need the event to end at some point, and begin again. The game needs to cater to everyone, not just the newbs, as they won't be newbs forever. 

The fact is that alerts had the same issue. For newbs, they were on far off planets, with enemies that were too hard to beat, and game modes that they didn't know how to do. They had to beg for a taxi and often needed someone to carry them. But everyone seems to have conveniently forgotten about those issues which are definitely alleviated in Nightwave, where we can pick to do most of the challenges on the starter planets if we need to. 

1 hour ago, D1sTrust said:

Come on, you have to see the difference between random event pop-ups, with a time investment of 20 minutes max per event/reward, and a 10-week event dangling a carrot-on-a-stick in front of you.

Yes. The 10 week event has a reward that most of us want. Even I used to ignore the alerts long before I had made it 1 year into the game. How many do you think the real vets did? 

Along the way we're going to collect creds that give us the the equivalent of quite a few alerts of our choice. Again I'd like that to translate to a lot more of the cruft that newbs would benefit from, but I recognise that something like umbral forma is not your typical "alert reward". 

1 hour ago, D1sTrust said:

Don`t get me wrong, I am not saying Nightwave is bad, the core idea is actually pretty good imo. But I think it needs some substantial changes in order to not alienate a seemingly huge group of players.

I can agree with this part wholeheartedly. 

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Had a good time doing nightwave, but I wish there were more challenging elite challenges, something that actually makes you think outside of the box instead of the usual do x sorties or x other slightly harder missions.

Besides that I honestly think that not making Wolf operate like Stalker Acolytes was a mistake. He almost never spawns for people that enjoy and want to fight him more often and reading how rest of the community struggle with him is kinda sad. If he had official place of operations like every day a different planet with MUCH higher chances of spawn (similar to Stalker acolytes) that would also override syndicates and other assassins it could make some players actively seek the encounter, while players that can't deal with him had easier times evading him. Overall it would result in less frustration. Hopefully something like that will be implemented into existing/future assassins if they are ever going to be reworked/buffed.

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48 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The fact is that alerts had the same issue. For newbs, they were on far off planets, with enemies that were too hard to beat, and game modes that they didn't know how to do.

Just speaking for myself, this was never an issue to me because alerts had a defined audience. If an alert on Eris came up while my max progression was Jupiter, I knew I was not the audience.

56 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Unfortunately the problem is that no event is never-ending.

Well, alerts were kinda never ending, except they got ended. 😉

Anyway, let me try to draft an "endless" Nighwave loop.

For the sake of the example, lets keep the shop as it is now (cosmetics, changing set of mods).
Lets also keep the system of daily and weekly challenges.
Dish out wolf credits based on how much of the weekly total a player does, e.g. 5 creds for 25%, 10 creds for 50%, 15 creds for 75%.
  So far that`s something that can loop forever, is useful to new-ish players, and not bad for seasoned players.

Have one "master elite" challenge per week which gives one of the current ranked-rewards.
The more desireable/high end the reward, the tougher the challenge.
One week it`d be a moderate challenge giving Forma, another week it`d be really brutal (out of reach for a player like me) giving something like the Umbra Forma.
Wolf cred bundles and the super useless stuff excluded, this would make for about 15 weeks of rewards, at which point it loops back to where it started.

This way the high end rewards would have seasoned players as a defined audience, and could actually offer a real challenge.
Sure, some weeks would be less interesting for veterans in terms of rewards, but that`s no different from what we have now.
The old "I missed the alarm" issue would still be mitigated by having a full week for the main reward.

Well, something like that 😉

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The umbral forma is not going to be usable by him until he gets to the end of the star chart. It is, by it's very nature extremely endgame specific.

(He's got Excalibur Umbra, and uses the Umbra mods on other frames... just starting to use Forma to min-max and squeeze in as much as he can... I don't think it'll be too long before he realizes what he's being deprived of.) We're both very good gamers, and it didn't take him long to get that far (2 months, maybe). He ran a clan in Destiny1 that ran raids every week and taught others how to play them the most efficient way possible.

 

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Most of the challenges can be done by many of the experienced players in far less time than 10 hours/week, assuming that the player is capable of completing them at all. The number that was tossed around was about 3 hours I think. Many of the challenges synergise so that we can work on more than one at the same time. 

And this is mainly why he's ignoring most of what he CAN do in Nightwave. He's got his own goals, and Nightwave would drastically cut into his time. (they may be fast for more experienced players) Even 3hrs though, is too much on his timetable, even on my timetable (I'm skipping sleep, staying up til midnight, skipping other entertainment, other games I would rather be playing at the moment, etc This is in no way a shining victory for the feature... it's building resentment for something I'd otherwise enjoy - if their stated goal in several interviews, is to build long lasting relationships with players who will pay over time because they enjoy the game... yeah, that's not happening here.)

Even though I COULD complete all the challenges, (even the "with friend" ones, IF the week's schedule aligns), there are chores in there that I don't want to be forced to do. And I certainly don't want to cram them all into the 3 (well, realistically, much more than 3, because I play "casually" most of the time) hours I could be using to accomplish my personal real goals that would make me happy. This week, all I have left are 3/8 (5 more) rare mods to find, use 3 forma (won't be happening), 5 sorties (won't be happening), and 3/10 relics (will be done). The Ayatan treasure act bugged on me on Sunday, marked as done, but got no points for it.

(hint about what doesn't make me happy: Being forced to use forma at their command doesn't make me happy - I plan carefully for each and every use of it, and I don't waste it frivilously - playing the first year solo, I built my own dojo room by room, forma by forma, and I'm pretty happy with the warframe and weapon setups that I have... not to mention the big bad wolf likes interrupting my play now, killing my newly forma'd warframes or dismissing the plink damage done by newly forma'd weapons - I'd rather not be using Forma for the duration of the Wolf's existence.) That's just one of the current "Acts" that I'd rather not do.

 

My main point was that there are people who won't get even close to the 60% mark, and missing just 2 weeks is a MASSIVE hit to their potential nightwave standing, especially when they can't even do all the acts each week when they ARE available to play. There is no wiggle room for them.

3 hours ago, Graavarg said:

I do not accept the premise for this "I am entitled to reach lvl 30 of Nightwave, so now I am pissed because it takes too much time/is hard/etc. and thus I get stressed out"-attitude that runs currently runs rampant.

Rank 30 is mid-rank for the event. Rank 30+ are "Prestige" ranks that we're not expected to get. They estimated (and players have math'd) doing over half of the chores are needed to only reach the midpoint of the event EVERY WEEK. People are expected to reach 30ish, with the hardcore getting prestige above that.

Tying this in with the main and previous points:
If you don't get at least 60% on any given week (like missing 2 weeks), you have to make that up with Fugitive captures or doing Elite Weeklies the remaining weeks, going well beyond the "60%" in those weeks. And if the whole issue was a time crunch BEFORE, now it's simply an exercise in futility.

You can't just skip everything you "don't like" doing, because you don't know what will prevent you from doing acts that you "do like" later in the event, when non-game life gets in the way, or you'd rather play the game how you like playing, accomplishing your own goals, and making progress toward what will make you happy, rather than filling in a checklist of chores that some RNG spit out.

(This all assumes one wants the rank 25,28,29,30 rewards, which are the only ones that really stuck out as "worth getting" and seemed out of reach to me, AND you don't care about wolf-cred ... but newbies and everyone without the important aura mods, or people who need Reactors/Catalysts, or need Nitain, NEED that wolf cred, so they'll NEED to enter the Prestige ranks for a pitiful 15 creds per 10,000 standing - and that was the stuff we got from Alerts, and that's what Nightwave is supposed to make easier to get (ahem *work for over time on their own time table, except that they expire and the shop's inventory rotates* ahem) for those with jobs and limited time to play... yeah, big fail on that goal... a point most of us agree on, that the system should front-load wolfcred in the reward table, rather than glyphs/etc)

I don't see entitlement here... I see people critiquing the Nightwave system failing to meet its expressed design goals.

 

Edited by (PS4)AyinDygra
o was an e
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4 hours ago, Graavarg said:

I do not accept the premise for this "I am entitled to reach lvl 30 of Nightwave, so now I am pissed because it takes too much time/is hard/etc. and thus I get stressed out"-attitude that runs currently runs rampant.

 

What really runs rampant is the idea, that it's edgy to call customers who don't like a product "entitled".

Extra C00l points for doing this in a DE-staff feedback thread.

miracle on 34th street eye roll GIF

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2 hours ago, D1sTrust said:

Just speaking for myself, this was never an issue to me because alerts had a defined audience. If an alert on Eris came up while my max progression was Jupiter, I knew I was not the audience.

Well, alerts were kinda never ending, except they got ended. 😉

 

Except for bit where each ended maybe an hour after it started. 

Quote

Anyway, let me try to draft an "endless" Nighwave loop.

For the sake of the example, lets keep the shop as it is now (cosmetics, changing set of mods).
Lets also keep the system of daily and weekly challenges.
Dish out wolf credits based on how much of the weekly total a player does, e.g. 5 creds for 25%, 10 creds for 50%, 15 creds for 75%.
  So far that`s something that can loop forever, is useful to new-ish players, and not bad for seasoned players.

Right now, prestige ranks award players who are done over 60 credits per week. What you're suggesting is a steep downgrade. Also many of the seasoned vets don't really care about the vast majority of the creds store offerings. So it's by no means good for them either. 

Quote

Have one "master elite" challenge per week which gives one of the current ranked-rewards.
The more desireable/high end the reward, the tougher the challenge.
One week it`d be a moderate challenge giving Forma, another week it`d be really brutal (out of reach for a player like me) giving something like the Umbra Forma.
Wolf cred bundles and the super useless stuff excluded, this would make for about 15 weeks of rewards, at which point it loops back to where it started.

Uh... Potato, forma, kuva, arcane, umbral forma... I'm not getting 15 from that (and some people groused about the quantity of the kuva, and the potato and forma may be quicker to farm parts for plat and just buy those). Remember those cosmetics are mostly one and done. 

Quote

This way the high end rewards would have seasoned players as a defined audience, and could actually offer a real challenge.
Sure, some weeks would be less interesting for veterans in terms of rewards, but that`s no different from what we have now.
The old "I missed the alarm" issue would still be mitigated by having a full week for the main reward.

Well, something like that 😉

Sorry but unless they're handing out umbral forma like candy, I just don't see it working. Remember, many of us wanted it so badly that we consented to grind out 290k worth of standing over the course of 5-7 weeks and many others will get there before the end of week 10-11. 

I'd guess that stronger players helped to carry the weaker players just based on the stats I saw along the way. What happens to the weaker players if the strong stopped bothering with the weeklies? A big part of an event like this is the fact that everyone is trying to complete the same challenges all at the same time. 

 

I'm not saying that the idea won't work, but I'm not seeing it working based on what you said. 

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2 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

Even though I COULD complete all the challenges, (even the "with friend" ones, IF the week's schedule aligns), there are chores in there that I don't want to be forced to do. And I certainly don't want to cram them all into the 3 (well, realistically, much more than 3, because I play "casually" most of the time) hours I could be using to accomplish my personal real goals that would make me happy. This week, all I have left are 3/8 (5 more) rare mods to find, use 3 forma (won't be happening), 5 sorties (won't be happening), and 3/10 relics (will be done). The Ayatan treasure act bugged on me on Sunday, marked as done, but got no points for it

You know that every mod that drops in the index is rare, right? One quick run and you can get 8.

Perhaps it's not about playing longer, or harder, just lining things up so that you get them done quickly and simply?

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18 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You know that every mod that drops in the index is rare, right? One quick run and you can get 8.

Perhaps it's not about playing longer, or harder, just lining things up so that you get them done quickly and simply?

That's where I got the rare mods I have so far... thanks for the tip.

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15 hours ago, Abysspurnyan said:

Ever since assassins became scalable, the wolf has become a massive bullet sponge.
He was already hard to deal with before this, but now he is a major pain in the ass to kill whether you have good weapons or not.
In invasion defence missions you shouldn't even try as the waves just move on as normal, thus the mission ends before you'd manage to halve his health let alone kill him.

Radiation does big damage to him. Arca Plasmor, any of the kitguns with a radiation build will shred him. If everyone has radiation damage on their weapons it doesn't take long to take him down. Just ignore the fugitives until he is dead as they are invulnerable until then. But avoid their damage. if you can kite the wolf to another area where the fugitives can't spam their molotovs at you, even better.

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2 hours ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Radiation does big damage to him. Arca Plasmor, any of the kitguns with a radiation build will shred him. If everyone has radiation damage on their weapons it doesn't take long to take him down. Just ignore the fugitives until he is dead as they are invulnerable until then. But avoid their damage. if you can kite the wolf to another area where the fugitives can't spam their molotovs at you, even better.

That's only true when he appears in a mission where you are not levelling. I just saw him on hydron. I had my tatsu as the backup weapon while was levelling the rest. As soon as he appeared, one left. When I managed to mow down his hp bar a 25% roughly, the host died and left, making host migration and replenishing wolf's health. At that point, in 2, with a poor guy that had nothing but his gara at level 30 (being a mr7), he decided at wave 5 to extract, leaving me alone.

Sure, yes, in the case that you have a radiation build in the weapon you are bringing, you might stand a chance, but he appears whenever he wants, should I be forced to bring a lvl 30 weapon with radiation always just because the wolf is so poorly designed that it's simply a bullet sponge that nobody wants to fight?

Right now, the wolf is just a lottery, if you find him with some good weapon equipped, you stand a chance against him, if you are on hydron levelling stuff, good luck, because you're going to need a lot of it.

Edited by (NSW)Belaptir
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A kitgun with 3k radiation does precisely d!ck to the meatsack at anything over level 50, ive plugged away at him for upwards of 20 minutes & did about a tenth of his total life bar.

The only & last time I was able to take the bastard on was with my chroma with a fire rate boosted opticor vandal, that still took about half an hour of just raining shots, spamming energy & health pizzas for myself & the team to go all out.

THAT was kind of fun, forced the team to go all out, abilities everywhere, people leading him to an easier kill box or smaller room so he doesnt slide across half the map chasing you down, LOVED the fight, only reason we continued was because we COULD see we were hurting him, slowly, but visibly.

A ragtag group pulls themselves together to form a cohesive team  & formulates tactics & strategy on the fly, THIS was astounding to experience & was worth it. 

All that, soured by a crappy common mod.

now I just drop game, nothing with the wolf is worth the effort, even the hammer is pathetic, neat & in game floofery being part hammer part glaive, but otherwise, wholly not worth it, is running around with radiation weaponry in case this toolbox shows up in your game an easier option than say, aborting & finding another match? are you gonna miss out on anything? no, not a thing, The wolf is of no consequence, just another speed bump in the long list of speed bumps DE initiated with Nightflush/wave.

Makem tough, force us to FIGHT A THREAT! but dont you insult me, my efforts or my teams efforts by rewarding this experience with a giant slap in the face with a freakin serration mod!

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25 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

That's only true when he appears in a mission where you are not levelling. I just saw him on hydron. I had my tatsu as the backup weapon while was levelling the rest. As soon as he appeared, one left. When I managed to mow down his hp bar a 25% roughly, the host died and left, making host migration and replenishing wolf's health. At that point, in 2, with a poor guy that had nothing but his gara at level 30 (being a mr7), he decided at wave 5 to extract, leaving me alone.

Sure, yes, in the case that you have a radiation build in the weapon you are bringing, you might stand a chance, but he appears whenever he wants, should I be forced to bring a lvl 30 weapon with radiation always just because the wolf is so poorly designed that it's simply a bullet sponge that nobody wants to fight?

Right now, the wolf is just a lottery, if you find him with some good weapon equipped, you stand a chance against him, if you are on hydron levelling stuff, good luck, because you're going to need a lot of it.

No, it's true in any mission. Not having radiation weapons on you does not make it any less true. It makes it just as true. I've been caught out on hydron too. I was levelling my Rattleguts and another weapon at the time, and the rattleguts had enough radiation damage (less than 500) to make a difference.

The choice is up to you. Knowing The Wolf can spawn anywhere, you chose whether you are prepared for that chance or to ignore it and accept you will get wrecked if he shows.

The Wolf is not poorly designed, he has his known weakness. Not being prepared for him is on you.

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8 minutes ago, (NSW)Hatemachine said:

A kitgun with 3k radiation does precisely d!ck to the meatsack at anything over level 50, ive plugged away at him for upwards of 20 minutes & did about a tenth of his total life bar.

My Catchmoon does 30k+ Radiation, My Arca Plasmor 20k+

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1 minute ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

No, it's true in any mission. Not having radiation weapons on you does not make it any less true. It makes it just as true. I've been caught out on hydron too. I was levelling my Rattleguts and another weapon at the time, and the rattleguts had enough radiation damage (less than 500) to make a difference.

The choice is up to you. Knowing The Wolf can spawn anywhere, you chose whether you are prepared for that chance or to ignore it and accept you will get wrecked if he shows.

The Wolf is not poorly designed, he has his known weakness. Not being prepared for him is on you.

I'm sorry but no. It's not on me. For a huge amount of reasons I might not be carrying a radiation weapon with me, and I shouldn't be forced to. Specially in a pug where I will be matched with people that could or could not be carrying something useful against him. Heck, even if I am carrying a radiation weapon, I might be paired with 3 more people that won't and that sooner or later will probably leave me alone against him (with a nice full heal for him every single time a host migration happens, mind you).

What if I'm carrying a viral build to do the nightwave challenge of today while I level up other weapons? What if I'm trying new builds for my weapons? What if I'm unlocking a riven that requires having the extinguished dragon key on me? If the stalker appears in any of these cases, you can take him down. If zanuka or the g3 appear, you can fight them back. If the wolf appears, you can't. That, or you get ready to spend a huge amount of time to try to kill him to then get an impressive molten impact as drop. He is poorly designed because he is just a bullet sponge that appears randomly and screws you and most of the times won't drop anything but a crap mod.

I could be ok with this kind of fight if, for example, there would be a place where he spawns, or if the fight was something like the acolytes. But like this? It's poor design completely.

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1 minute ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

I'm sorry but no. It's not on me. For a huge amount of reasons I might not be carrying a radiation weapon with me, and I shouldn't be forced to. Specially in a pug where I will be matched with people that could or could not be carrying something useful against him. Heck, even if I am carrying a radiation weapon, I might be paired with 3 more people that won't and that sooner or later will probably leave me alone against him (with a nice full heal for him every single time a host migration happens, mind you).

What if I'm carrying a viral build to do the nightwave challenge of today while I level up other weapons? What if I'm trying new builds for my weapons? What if I'm unlocking a riven that requires having the extinguished dragon key on me? If the stalker appears in any of these cases, you can take him down. If zanuka or the g3 appear, you can fight them back. If the wolf appears, you can't. That, or you get ready to spend a huge amount of time to try to kill him to then get an impressive molten impact as drop. He is poorly designed because he is just a bullet sponge that appears randomly and screws you and most of the times won't drop anything but a crap mod.

I could be ok with this kind of fight if, for example, there would be a place where he spawns, or if the fight was something like the acolytes. But like this? It's poor design completely.

Then deal with the fact you're not prepared for him if he arrives. Just like if you take a Braton MK-1 on an Eidolon hunt.

Most of the times the other Assassins only drop a crap mod too.

This is starting to sound like just another I want it all right now complaint.

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